Post by dbw on Dec 12, 2014 23:08:32 GMT
Dec 12, 2014 16:39:53 GMT dbw said:
There is an alternative school of thought held by some about the Maggiore murders, doubting that EAR was connected.The reasoning behind these doubts is:
1. There is no forensic evidence that links EAR to the Maggiore murders.
2. If you question that EAR was VR and that EAR was Rod Miller's shooter, EAR did not work up the nerve to kill until much later in Southern California. There is some evidence that EAR was conflicted about the idea of killing, although it is generally thought he wanted to kill pretty much from the beginning.
3. EAR had not used a 9mm in any of his other attacks - in fact he used revolvers, not semi automatic weapons. In an attack days before the Maggiore murders, he used a very odd- looking revolver. Comparatively speaking, EAR used a rather odd and down-scale assortment of guns compared to the Maggiore shooter. In some cases he had no gun at all, only a knife, and in some cases the knife was taken from the kitchen of the victim.
4. There is a distinct possibility the Maggiore murders are connected to drug dealing through Mather AFB, not EAR
5. EAR didn't chase possible witnesses down - his MO has been to flee when confronted. It is unknown whether EAR possessed the skill to accurately shoot a fleeing target - not an easy task - as the gunman in the Maggiore case did.
6. There is no forensic evidence connecting EAR to being VR (McGowan's shooter) or Rod Miller's shooter. If one eliminates those crimes, if only for purposes of not linking crimes unproven to be linked to EAR, the progression of EAR from rapist to murderer makes more sense.
7. If it turns out EAR was involved in the Maggiore murders (or even the Miller shooting) it doesn't change the investigative focus. Identify the rapist then match the DNA of GSK. The definitive proof is going to have to come from DNA matching and there was no DNA, or any other forensic evidence, linking to EAR at the Maggiore or Miller crime scene.
This is not meant to touch off an argument, just provide an alternative view as food for thought.
I'll go ahead and give my thoughts on your points, which are all completely valid.
1. My understanding is that there is no forensic evidence that proves or disproves the EAR's involvement. Given that it was outdoors and there was no sexual assault, gathering DNA and other forensic evidence would be much more difficult. If the shoelace tied into a loop was in fact found, that is significant circumstantial evidence though of course not enough to formally link the murders to the EAR. The alleged witness account where he is said to have been wearing a ski mask is another factor to consider, as well as the location. If there is other information, I'd of course highly value it no matter what it indicates.
I agree, there is no forensic evidence to prove or disprove EAR's involvement in the Maggiore shootings. The shoelace is interesting, but hardly enough to link EAR to the crime scene. The location of the shootings may have as much to do with the Maggiores and their habits as it does the shooter, and, at any rate, does not help to identify the shooter, Ski masks are widely used by many criminals to conceal their identity. EAR certainly has no monopoly on that behaviour.
2. I am skeptical of the EAR being VR, but I do believe the EAR is a prime suspect in the Rod Miller shooting for reasons similar to the Maggiore situation. While the EAR may have had to work himself up to premeditated murder in his victims' homes, it doesn't mean he wasn't willing to kill in other circumstances. The reality is we don't know the extent of his crimes and behavior before, during, or after the confirmed EARONS attacks, so the evolution of his break-in crimes doesn't tell us much about what he was or wasn't capable of and what his motivations may have been for any given point of time.
There is no evidence to indicate who shot Rod Miller or the Maggiores, or to indicate the suspects were one and the same. What we know is that Miller was chasing the suspect and the suspect shot him. In the Maggiore situation, we have the suspect chasing the Maggiores to shoot them. In all other known EAR attacks, EAR runs when confronted. We do not even know if EAR has the skill to shoot a victim running away from him - it's not as easy as it sounds - which was done quickly and efficiently.
3. The EAR may not have brought guns to every crime scene, but he was known to carry a variety of them. We also have only victims' descriptions of the guns he used, so we can't be sure of all the models of guns he used or if he had other guns in his possession. I don't think anything can be proven or disproven based on the gun he used to kill the Maggiores.
EAR did not bring a large variety of guns to the scenes of his attacks - they were always revolvers that witnesses reported, which were brandished before they were bound and blindfolded. If he carried a 9mm, it was never seen. The Maggiores and Miller were shot with a 9mm. I agree that it can not be proven EAR was involved or not involved in either shooting by the handguns used.
4. I have read this on here before and would love to know more about it and whether or not Maggiore was positively connected to the alleged drug dealing case. He would had to have had a fairly significant role in the investigation for him to be an assassination target, especially since I'm not aware of other murders or attempted murders related to the case. Do you know if he had received death threats or had reason to fear for his life? If he was involved in the case, they would likely have some suspects based on that alone... and maybe they do? This is a topic I'd love to know more about, though I doubt much is publicly available even if it's true.
there certainly has been widespread speculation as to whether Maggiore was involved in the investigation of drug trafficking through Mather Air Force Base. I welcome the Air Force Office of Special Investigations decision to investigate the Maggiore case. It is my hope that even f they can't solve the case, they can at least document Maggiore's involvement - if at all - in the drug trafficking investigation.
5. Did any witnesses see the killer initiate the chase? I believe one of the mysteries of this murder is that nobody knows what prompted it. It's just as possible that Brian had attempted to pursue him initially and fled when he saw the gun. We can't be sure what the killer's motivation was one way or another, nor do we know the limitations of the EAR's behavior. If it's true that Katie was receiving obscene calls and being stalked that complicates the motivation for the murders but is also a strong indicator that the Maggiores were on the EAR's radar.
It seems nobody observed how the confrontation started, so we don't know. We dont' even know who the killer is, let alone his motivation. The only thing we do know, is once the killer began pursuing the Maggiores, he did so until he killed them. Katie was receiving obscene phone calls and she thought she was being stalked. They were probably on somebody's radar, but whose we don't know.
6. Regardless of who did them, we can agree that the VR shooting and both the Miller and Maggiore shootings are similar and that the ONS murders are mostly dissimilar to those three crimes (except for the fact that a gun was used in some ONS crimes). It does seem that the EARONS escalated into ritualized/fetishistic murder only after spending years as a rapist, but we can't be sure how he would react to every situation he was in prior to the escalation. What we do know is that during the EAR phase he carried murderous weapons, continually threatened victims with murder, and was constantly putting himself in situations near the Maggiore shootings where he could be confronted, pursued, or threatened himself.
I disagree that the Maggiore shootings were similar to the Miller and McGowan shootings. The Maggiores were being pursued by the shooter. Miller and McGowan were pursuing the shooter. There is no evidence connecting any of these shootings to EAR or anybody else. Of course there is no evidence disproving EAR's connection either. EAR carried weapons and threatened to kill but did not despite incidents of losing control fo the scene or victims fighting back. However, as you said, there is no way to know how EAR would react to any given circumstance, these circumstances, or if EAR was even involved. It is just as likely that the Maggiore murders happened in close proximity to where EAR operated as it is EAR operated close to the Maggiore murder site. Remember, too, EAR attacked in areas widely removed from the Maggiore murder site and ws confronted in areas far removed from that area - he always chose to flee.
7. Absolutely. I am only speculating as someone who is not connected to LE or the judicial process and if the Maggiores were proven to be killed by the EAR, it is unlikely to me that the case would add anything to the investigation except a higher body count.
Agreed.
In summary, most of the evidence neither proves nor disproves the EAR's involvement, but some of the circumstantial evidence indicates it was him. I would not say that the EAR definitively killed the Maggiores, only that the more I find out about it and the more I consider the situation the more likely it is to me that he is the prime suspect.
I agree the evidence neither proves not disproves EAR involvement in the Maggiore murders. I disagree that the circumstantial evidence would tend to point to EAR, as the evidence is inconclusive and neither proves nor disproves EAR involvement, or anyone else for that matter. As such, my conclusion is there is not enough evidence to assume EAR is the most likely suspect. However, I agree wholeheartedly this case needs to be further examined and re-evaluated as new evidence comes to light. I am particularly hopeful the Air Force investigations might shed some light on the case.
Also, I must say, thank you, northernjustice, for a civil discussion about an issue we can agree to disagree on - while agreeing on far more than might be expected. You are a gentleman and a scholar and there are damn few of us left!