Possible Victims: Jeff Scott & Karen Noble in Bluefield

[cleopatra]

VICTIMS:     Jeff Scott, 21 & Karen Noble, 20

DATE:          5/28/1978

PLACE:         Bluefield, West Virginia

I found this murder several months back and posted it in the Unsolved Lover's Lane Murders thread.  I am revisiting it.  Below, I will post the site where the murders took place, or at least where the burning truck and couple were both found.  LE believed they were shot/killed somewhere else and brought to that spot.  Notice the bridge, river, wooded area.

The similarities between this crime and the CPMs are very interesting:

- COUPLE ON A DATE AT NIGHT

- ON MAY 28, 1978 SUNDAY

- MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND (May 29, Monday, Memorial Day)

- TIME OF ABDUCTION WAS 11:45 P.M.

- AGE OF MALE VICTIM WAS 21. No sexual assault. 

-CIRCUMSTANCES:  Male victim's Datsun truck interior was soaked in gasoline and lit on fire.  Another couple driving on the highway spotted the truck on fire and stopped to help.  They pulled out the male victim who was already dead.  The female was down BY the water lying face down. It seemed she ran to get water to try to put out the flames.  She was shot in the head twice.  The male was shot in the head twice.

ARTICLE:

On Sunday, May 28, 1978, at just before midnight, the bodies of Karen Lynn Noble of Bluefield, WV and Jeffrey Lee Scott of Bramwell, WV were found near Wolf Creek on secondary Route 61 between Narrows and Rocky Gap, Virginia. Both victims had been shot in the head with a small caliber weapon. Miss Noble reportedly drowned after being shot twice in the head.

This murder has never been solved.

At the time of the murder, Miss Noble was 20 years old and was a student at Marshall University. Mr. Scott was 21.

The night of the murders, Jeff picked Karen up from her house at about 9:00 p.m. for a date. Less than three hours later, their bodies were discovered by a passerby. The inside of Jeff's Datsun truck had been soaked with gasoline and set on fire.

Jeff's body was pulled from the back of the truck. Karen's body was discovered 30 yards away, face down at the edge of the creek. Authorities believe the truck fire had been started only moments before the bodies were discovered.

At the time, authorities were quoted as saying they believed the couple was shot somewhere between Bluefield, W.V. and the Route 61 location and then brought to the isolated area where their bodies were later discovered.

Although officials stated they had "four or five good angles", nobody was ever charged in connection with

[cleopatra]

Here is a recap:



May 21, 1978, SATURDAY



MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND



Jeffrey Lee Scott, 22, DOB 2/14/57

Karen Lynn Noble, 20, DOB 3/1/58



Bluefield, West Virginia 


Jeff picked up Karen in his truck from her home at 9PM on Saturday night.

At approx. 11:30 P.M. the truck was found on fire.

The inside of the truck had been doused with gasoline and lit on fire.

Male victim was shot in the head.

Female shot twice in head.
She lay along side a long log with her head in the water, 30 YARDS away from the truck.

No robbery. No sexual assault.



MORE INFO:




- Investigators concluded the crime took place somewhere else, not where the truck was found because there were no signs of any struggles, and there was no blood. CPM #1, #2, #3, #4



- It was believed the couple was shot about 10 miles away, then driven to the spot they were found. CPM #1, #2, #3, #4



- Truck was doused in gasoline. CPM #1



- Male was lying in the bed of the truck. That part of the truck had no burns, yet the male was charred.



- Female was found by the river across a log by the riverbed with her head face down in the water. Robin Edwards, Donna Hall



(I wonder if the killer brought the female to the water thinking she was dead from the shot to her head and maybe she moved and spooked him, so he left, and he may have intended to bring the male there originally.)



- Small sandy beach lay between truck and where female's body was found. Robin Edwards



- There were a bunch of smoked cigarette butts lying around the truck and an empty bottle of booze. Margaret-Hall Murder



- Male picked up female for a date at 9PM. CPM #2, #3



- Male was a 21 Y.O. Caucasian and he owned the vehicle he was driving CPM #2, #3, #4, Margaret-Hall Murder



- which was a truck. CPM #2, Margaret-Hall Murder



- abducted the couple from one place and killed them, then drove truck to a different location, by the woods on a long tree-lined road, next to an overpass. CPM #1, CPM #2, CPM #3



- separated female from vehicle, hauled to river. CPM #2, Margert-Hall Murder



- some clothing were neatly set inside the truck, male's belt was neatly rolled, looped through buckle and placed next to victim in bed of truck. CPM #2, #3, #4



- Male victim's watch stopped at 11:02 P.M.



- Female's watch stopped at 11:25 P.M.

[cleopatra]

Two college Students Found Slain In Giles



By PAT CECIL Daily Talagrapti Stall Wrlltr


The bodies of two young college students from Mercer County, victims of an apparent double murder, were found early Monday morning near Wolfe Creek on secondary Rt. Cl between Narrows, Va., and Rocky Gap, Va. Police officials identified the two as Karen Lynn Noble, 20, of 310 Parkway in Bluefield and Jeffrey Lee Scott, 21, of Bram-well. Both the victims had been shot in the head with a small caliber weapon. Miss Noble reportedly drowned after she was shot twice in the head. Authorities, who were continuing to sift through debris at the scene located less than one mile east of the Bland County line late Monday, said that available information leads them to believe the two West Virginia residents were “shot and hauled to the scene.” No gun was found near the bodies. Details, which remain very sketchy, indicate the couple had left Miss Noble’s home at approximately 9 p.m. Sunday. Shortly before midnight a Narrows, Va., man called the Giles County Sheriff’s Department and told officials a truck was on fire on secondary Rt. 61. The caller and his girl friend, who happened to be traveling on the remote stretch of highway, spotted the truck and stopped. Officials said that the man and another passing motorist pulled Scott’s body from the back of the late-model Datsun pick-up and then contacted fire officials. The truck-fire, according to authorities, was deliberately set. Scott's body was badly charred although the rear section of the vehicle did not burn. Firemen who were getting water from Wolfe Creek, about 30 yards away, reportedly found Miss Noble’s body lying across a log near the river bank with her face down in the water. She was wearing a halter top and skirt. Authorities did not indicate whether she had been sexually molested. One deputy sheriff said no motive has been determined for the slayings, but indicated authorities believe the couple was shot between Bluefield and the mountainous area of Giles County where the bodies were discovered, a distance of about 10 miles. Officials said that the two were not killed in a highway accident because the truck had been parked near the creek, not wrecked. A small sandy beach is located between where the truck was parked and where Miss Noble’s body was found. “We believe they were shot somewhere between here (the Rt. 61 site) and Bluefield," one officer said, “because there are no signs of any type struggle, no blood, etc." Dr. David Oxley, the state medical examiner in Roanoke, Va., told the Daily Telegraph that Scott died of the gunshot wound to his head and that Miss Noble, although she was also shot in the head, drowned Sheriff John E. Hopkins III estimated Miss Noble had been in the creek “less than an hour” before she was discovered. Hopkins said that the truck fire had apparently been started only moments before the two Narrows men arrived on the scene. "The rear part of the truck did not burn,” he said, “so it couldn’t have been on fire long.” Miss Noble, a 1976 graduate of Bluefield High School, was a cheerleader, Miss Junior Civitan of West Virginia, treasurer of the Student Council, and was a member of the National Honor Society. She enrolled in West Virginia University during September, 1976, majoring in forestry. She (Page Two Column Five) Karen And Jeff 'He Was One Of The Most Likeable Guys I've Ever Known' 'When You Think Of Karen, You Have To Smile.




Karen Noble and her steady boyfriend Jeff Scott said goodbye to her parents around 9 p.m. Sunday and left together on a date. That was the last anyone saw of them alive They were discovered three hours later, each with a bullet through the head Sunday had started out to be a normal day. Karen had just returned from a vacation with her parents in Kansas, where they had visited her sister Jeff had played basketball with his friend Joey Honeyak in Bramwell Sunday afternoon. later that night, Jeff and Karen, both students at Marshall University returned home for the summer, left on a date. Apparently they didn’t tell anyone where they were going. They were discovered later on a lonely stretch of road between Rocky Gap and Narrows, Va., Jeffs body charred from his burning truck, and Karen’s face down in the creek which runs alongside the road. “I couldn't believe it when I heard what happened,” Karen Carroll said. “Harriett (Edwards) told me. I felt so weak. . Disbelief was a common feeling among Jeff’s and Karen’s friends Monday. "It really hasn’t soaked in yet,” Joey Honeyak said. “I visited the Scotts and the Nobles today. Everybody’s really torn up about it, and sort of disbelieving. I can’t think of the words to describe what I think.” Jeff and Karen had been dating for several years. Both went to Marshal], where she was studying geology (she was planning on getting some field experience with a Bluefield area firm this summer) and he was studying accounting. “He was a very good photographer," Honeyak said of the boy he had grown up with in Bramwell. “That was his natural area. He had taken all the photography courses at Marshall.” Jeff took the photograph of Karen which is published in this edition, and according to a neighbor of Karen's, had just made a series of prints of the picture last week. “He was one of the most likeable guys I’ve ever known," Honeyak said. “He helped me out a lot of times. He was always willing to go out of his way for me, and for a lot of people. “Karen — when you think of Karen, you have to smile. She was always sort of exuberant and happy.” Karen Carroll, one of Karen's classmates at Bluefield High School, said, “Everybody loved her a whole lot. She and Jeff had been dating a couple of years. They were the nicest people I have ever known." Miss Carroll’s roommate at college, Harriett Edwards, was too upset to come to the phone, but Miss Carroll quoted Harriett as saying, “Karen was a friend and I loved her." Both of them were active In school and community affairs, and apparently had something pretty special going together — although friends say they never heard any talk of marriage. “They were a delightful couple," Mrs. Harry Pat Carter, Joey Honeyak’s mother, said. “There was no finer boy, and Karen was the same way." And no one can think of a reason for the killing “Everybody liked Karen,” Cathy Davidson, who was a cheerleader with Karen, said. “I don’t think she had any enemies." “Why would anyone kill someone who hadn’t done anything to anybody?” Barbara Moore asked “Karen was a Christian girl. She was a leader in every way, In her social life, Christian life and home life. Jeff was a really nice guy, really outstanding.” Barbara said she and Mike Onifer used to double date with Jeff and Karen. "I feel a loss for them both,” she said. “It has made me sick.

[cleopatra]

Is it possible that the killer was in the process of transferring both bodies from the truck to the river edge, when another car pulled up and interrupted?
The killer may have first hauled the female's body over to the river edge then returned to fetch the male's body.  But when a truck pulled up, the killer may have run off.

The timeline is pretty tight:



9:00 P.M. (approx.) couple last seen alive - left female's home on 310 Parkway, Bluefield, WV.

11:02 P.M. - male's watch stopped

11:25 P.M. - female's watch stopped

11:30 (approx.) Timmy and girlfriend drive up to burning truck

11:30-11:50 - sheriff was called



What would have caused watches to stop? Heat from fire? Water at river's edge?



Investigator's at the time believed the two were shot at an unknown location a mile away from where they were found, then driven to the river's edge on Wolf Creek Road. If so, perhaps the fire was started at 11:02 and the heat stopped the male's watch. After the killer transported the bodies to Wolf Creek, he may have dragged the female's body down to the river and place it near the water. Although she was shot twice in the head, technically she drowned. If the water ever covered her left hand, it could have been what stopped her watch, which would mean she was placed there at 11:25 P.M.



The killer could have done that, seen people driving up to the truck, then ran off.



I am inclined to believe this couple may have been the first murder of the CPK. If so, he tried to repeat the scenario with Cathy and Becky, but time the fire did not start. The fire failing may have caused him to skip the burning part and instead decided to leave vehicles at places that would guarantee they'd be found right away then get towed. Towing would contaminate evidence on the exterior and interior of the vehicles.



Many important details of this murder can be found in the CPMs,



Virginia

3 day holiday weekend

long tree lined road

wooded area

river

overpass

midnight

couple on date, in vehicle

male is white, 20 Y.0.

abducted

shot in head 
truck doused in fuel

truck moved from crime scene

female hauled away from truck and left at river's edge

clothing neatly folded and left in vehicle



What is intriguing about it is that COUPLE MURDERS are extremely rare. Then there is NO MOTIVE. I am still on the fence with the Margaret-Hall murder. I am leaning more toward the idea that it was also committed by the CPK. The drug angle is weak, IMO, and it does muddy the linking of the murder to the CPK. Nevertheless, I still believe it may have been committed by the CPK.



As for the suspect, Bird, of the Wolf Creek murder, after reading about that suspect I do not believe he murdered Jeff and Karen.

[cleopatra]

It may be nothing, but I'm pointing this out anyway.



The couple came from the female's home prior to their murders. She lived on 301 PARKWAY Street.



If the CPK did murder this Bluefield couple, he may have been trying to recreate this murder in each of the CP murders. It could explain why why bits and pieces of this crime are found in every one of tbe CP murders.



The Killer could then be associating the Colonial PARKWAY with the female's home address of PARKWAY Street.

[cleopatra]

[cleopatra]

The witness who lived on Rte 61, Robert Lowder, said he saw a couple get out of a truck with a West Virginia license plate who went to sit at a picnic table near or on his property. That's all he said.

He never identified the couple he saw and he said it was too dark and they were too far for him to give descriptions.  Lowder said he saw the couple walking back to the truck with another man, they all got into the truck and drove onto Rte 61 at a "leisurely pace".



No one knows for sure if that couple was Karen Noble and Jeff Scott. Lowder saw three people - two men and one female.


What if the couple Lowder saw was Timmy Vaughn, his 15 year old girlfriend, and the "other boy" who pulled Jeff Scott out of the truck?   I wonder if the investigator's ever asked Timmy and his girlfriend if they went down to a creek and sat at a picnic table earlier that night?


Timmy was driving a truck and he lived in Narrows, WV, so his plates also would have said West Virginia.  What a coincidence, that Timmy and his girlfriend were the same ages as David Knobling and Robin Edwards - 20 & 14, 20 & 15, and both were in trucks.  Then, Sandra Hailey & Keith Call were both college students just like Karen & Jeff.

Jimmy ended up becoming a Virginia State Trooper.

Speaking of sad and weird (seeing that as of late I have been theorizing that the CPK was targeting 20 year old white males - years after the Wolf Creek murder, Timmy fathered a son who he named after himself (Timothy Vaughn, Jr.), who died in 2002 in an automobile accident at the age of 20.  

[cleopatra]

Hopkins said that the truck fire had apparently been started only moments before the two Narrows men arrived on the scene. "The rear part of the truck did not burn,” he said, “so it couldn’t have been on fire long.” 

[cleopatra]

below excerpts from:   www.bluefield.edu/article/bc-students-investigate-local-cold-case/


Around 9 p.m., Scott picked Noble up from her house near Bluefield, W.Va., and the two set off together for their date. 

Lowder said around 9 p.m. he saw a blue Datsun with West Virginia tags pull up near his cabin and a young couple matching Scott and Noble's descriptions got out and head toward the creek. About an hour later, he saw three individuals return to the vehicle and get in, driving off "at a leisurely pace." Lowder couldn't identify the three people due to the darkness...


The couple Lowder saw couldn't have been Karen Noble and Jeff Scott.  They left Karen's house on 316 Parkway Avenue at 9PM.  Lowder was talking to a strange man who he described as disabled, walking with a limp, smoking cigarettes and had a bottle of whiskey in his back pocket shortly after the time Karen and Jeff drove off on their date.  Then at around 9PM Lowder claimed he saw a truck with a couple "matching Scott and Noble's descriptions", not that he saw Scott and Noble.  

The soonest Karen and Scott could have been anywhere near Lowder's cabin, which was a mile from the Bland boundary line right before Giles County, would have been 9:40PM.

Maybe it was 20 year old Timmy Vaughn and his 15 year old girlfriend who Lowder saw.  They were the couple who spotted the burning truck.  Or, maybe it was an some other couple.   Maybe Lowder saw the murderer or murderers.  Lowder said the couple he saw parked their truck and went down to the creek at 9PM.  At 10PM he saw the couple walk back to their truck with another man and all three drove away onto Rte. 61 at a leisurely pace.  At 11:30 P.M. Timmy and his girlfriend were driving on Rte. 61 when they came upon the burning truck.

[shayne78]

So this double homicide has not been linked to the rest of the four doubles officially known as the COlonial Parkway Murders? I mean this one would almost certainly have been looked at by detectives. And if not, what’s really going on here. This case could have more in common with GSK-like scenarios than ever imagined. Obviously the couples angle, if not to mention the cop or ex-cop possibility.

[cleopatra]

[cleopatra]

The more I analyze the sighting of "A COUPLE" who fit the description of Karen & Jeff, the more I doubt they were the couple who parked near Robert Lowder's cabin at 9PM the night they were murdered.

It was that sighting which caused LE to suspect that Bird was their killer. IMO, Bird did not kill Jeff and Karen. Bird also apparently committed suicide in the Tazewell jailhouse by hanging himself with a bed sheet. Bird wrote a quick note before hanging himself that said something like, sorry I can't help you with the Noble-Scott murder, I didn't kill them. From all that I have read about Bird, I concluded that despite having been one big nuisance of a criminal for LE in Tazewell County and neighboring Counties, he did not appear to me to have been the killer of Jeff and Karen.

Jeff and Karen didn't tell anyone where they were going when they left Karen's house. I would imagine they were headed to a main strip to get a drink or a bite to eat and chat after being apart for 9 days. Or to see a movie. I doubt they drove 30 minutes away, from Bluefield County to Bland County at 9PM, in the dark, to chat at a picnic table.  

MAY 28, 1978 - MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND - BLUEFIELD VA - JEFFREY SCOTT (20) & KAREN NOBLE (21)

MAY 18, 1990 - MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND - MECHANICSVILLE VA - JAMES SHERRIN (20) & DEBORAH FERGUSON (21) RED HAIR

OCTOBER 10, 1986 - COLUMBUS DAY WEEKEND - WILLIAMSBURG VA - CATHLEEN THOMAS (27) & REBECCA DOWSKI (21) RED HAIR

[cleopatra]

[(AQ)]

Nov 21, 2018 4:55:21 GMT cleopatra said:

Hopkins said that the truck fire had apparently been started only moments before the two Narrows men arrived on the scene. "The rear part of the truck did not burn,” he said, “so it couldn’t have been on fire long.” 

I've always thought it interesting that in cases of attempting to burn cars, the ignition points weren't near the fuel tanks, which would have accelerated the burns.   In both cases (Scott/Noble and Thomas/Dowaski) the suspect is thinking mostly about burning the bodies, yet if the fire was roaring - the bodies would have burnt.  

He went for the bodies, vs the cars which seems somewhat backward to me.  

[cleopatra]

I suspect their killer lived nearby. And very close to wjere the truck was found. If you look at aireal photos, there is nowhere to go unless you drive away on Rte 61 or run into a house.

Two young men who came across the truck pulled Jeff out. Tim stated that he checked for a pulse and the male lying in the bed of the truck was dead. Was the fire still burning? The girlfriend said they saw a fire and thought it was a dumpster on fire AGAIN BECAUSE KIDS WERE ALWAYS STARTING FIRES IN the dumpster. Were the cops aware of that?

LE said the truck fire had to have been set about 5 minutes before it was found. So where'd the killer go?