Did the VR Kill Snelling and Shoot at McGowen

[Deleted]

Feb 12, 2015 23:12:32 GMT portofleith said:

Feb 12, 2015 22:44:44 GMT @privatecitizen said:

.....

Port, do you think that only one person did the VR crimes and do you think that the VR was the EAR?

I do think only one person did the crimes listed as ransackings and those involved these common methods of operation:

same days of the week
same neighborhood
Snelling murder weapon stolen in ransacking
Snelling screen removed in same fashion as screen removal at other ransackings
physical description given by 7 witnesses
fondness for inexpensive jewelry, stamps and coins
interest in undies and lotion bottles
tennis shoe tracks the same at numerous ransack burglaries 
left points of exit
methodically opened kitchen cupboards and refrigerators
removed, moved and tore photos of children and young women

I remain open to  the VR being responsible for the EAR rapes, mainly due to uncertainty about the first possible crime dates in Sacramento.  Many in LE and other case experts will disagree with me, but some of the above behaviors were similar at the EAR rapes and the murders.

For example, a screen was removed and placed on a bush at Offerman Manning.  We know ONS opened the refrigerator at Offerman Manning.  We assume he drank milk at the Smiths.  

Early EAR victims described the "maniacal opening of kitchen cupboards and drawers."  EAR moved food within refrigerators and counters.  VR also did this.

Do we know that Patrice Harrington left groceries to put away on the kitchen counter or did ONS stage this?

ONS was also selective in the souvenirs he took and value was not a factor.

VR is the only cluster of crimes we are aware of that could pre-date the rapes.  That is not to say there were not rapes elsewhere before June 18, 1976.  In a perfect world, every old rape kit available would be processed for DNA.

I will say that most case experts seem to not believe that VR and EAR/ONS are one and the same.  The apparent lack of DNA in the Tulare County crimes leaves this topic open for debate.

Thanks for responding. Do you think the same person that did the ransackings also murdered Prof. Snelling and shot at Det. McGowen?

[dengas]

Portofleith, do you know the reasons that most (?) LEA don't believe VR is EAR? I have often wondered what changed Archangel's thoughts regarding this? I am wondering if LE sees Visalia as sort of a liability in solving the cases? Since I assume Visalia doesn't have the needed evidence for a conviction, It can see where SACRAMENTO, etc., LE shouldn't FOCUS their attention on Visalia, just in case we aren't connected.

So, again, why do they believe they aren't connected? Obviously they don't need to PROVE it, but how do they dismiss the above list of similarities?

[portofleith]

PC- Yes, I do believe the Snelling shooter and the McGowen shooter are one and the same.  I could certainly be wrong.

 We know that the ransacker was the Snelling shooter based upon ballistics.  


I would say that the events that lead to the stakeout in the garage in advance of the Ransacker appearing were based upon careful study of the previous  crimes and that the ransacker dropping the sock full of items from a previous typical ransacking that night ,point to the Ransacker being the McGowen shooter as well.

[Deleted]

Feb 12, 2015 23:29:21 GMT portofleith said:

PC- Yes, I do believe the Snelling shooter and the McGowen shooter are one and the same.  I could certainly be wrong.

 We know that the ransacker was the Snelling shooter based upon ballistics.  


I would say that the events that lead to the stakeout in the garage in advance of the Ransacker appearing were based upon careful study of the previous  crimes and that the ransacker dropping the sock full of items from a previous typical ransacking that night ,point to the Ransacker being the McGowen shooter as well.

Ok, so you think one person did all of the ransackings, killed Prof. Snelling, and shot at Det. McGowen. Thanks for clarifying that.

We know a gun believed to be stolen in one of the ransackings was believed to be used to kill Prof. Snelling. Some LE differ on the details of that situation.

I think more than one person was involved in the crimes and I think Det. McGowen was most likely right about more than one person being involved in them. 

[dengas]

I Believe that at times, the VR had a "driver" -- someone who was heard saying that he killed Mr. SNELLING. Salazar and Diaz went out of state to question the guy about what "someone" said. "Someone" was on the original list of suspects, moved north (recently I heard he was found to have lived in Redding), had the pudgy appearance, but couldn't have jumped over a fence. When I look at 11/30/74, I think that the VR had a helper--driver. I also think that there is enough pointing to a driver in Snelling's murder. Otherwise why would the guy have left the bike he stole on Tulare Avenue in the bushes near Snelling's? Wouldn't he have taken off on the bike? Are we thinking he disappeared ON FOOT that early morning? WOW...that is all I can say about that!

[portofleith]

Feb 13, 2015 0:46:42 GMT dengas said:

I Believe that at times, the VR had a "driver" -- someone who was heard saying that he killed Mr. SNELLING. Salazar and Diaz went out of state to question the guy about what "someone" said. "Someone" was on the original list of suspects, moved north (recently I heard he was found to have lived in Redding), had the pudgy appearance, but couldn't have jumped over a fence. When I look at 11/30/74, I think that the VR had a helper--driver. I also think that there is enough pointing to a driver in Snelling's murder. Otherwise why would the guy have left the bike he stole on Tulare Avenue in the bushes near Snelling's? Wouldn't he have taken off on the bike? Are we thinking he disappeared ON FOOT that early morning? WOW...that is all I can say about that!

I think it is very likely he disappeared on foot over Mr. F's fence into the patios of the apartments behind.

I do not think he needed a car at all.  He just needed a discrete route home.

Of course, it is all conjecture, but it seems that route was used by the Ransacker again at a later date.

[dengas]

The apartments? So, then do you think he walked or drove from the apartments to wherever he lived? To the west of the apartments was Colony Kitchen and Kmart parking lot. The apartments did have small patio areas, so maybe he hid in one of the patio areas until things quieted down, but the layout as I remember just doesn't fit.


So, down the driveway of SNELLING, across the street, down Mr.F driveway, across his back yard, and then into the apartment patio? You are talking about the apartments on County Center, right?

Who knows, you may be right. I just remember neighbors who said they heard cars (various descriptions) leaving the area. again, who knows!

[Drifter]

Feb 12, 2015 21:11:08 GMT portofleith said:

Feb 12, 2015 17:18:17 GMT sammyt said:

I was just going to ask why many well respected EARONS investigators had 'duo team' VR suspects if all prints were from one offender...

Detective Brett McGowen posted on this board the other night to reinforce what Shelby wrote about a witness description of the Ransacker having the appearance and demeanor of a special needs teen. That post has been lost, but McGowen was later kind enough to convey the point he had wanted to make on the board via email:

"Yes I posted the information about special needs person because of the way my father described the VR when he began to scream like a girl when first confronted by my father on the night of the shooting. "

Note that McGowen said VR in discussing the shooter- one and the same.

Boren, Richey and Burglartips were all arrested for their crimes which were burglaries during the same time period, so yes, there were many burglars and peepers out and about. However, only one, had the clear MO of the Ransacker.

Bennie Galloway was later determined to be the Southern Drawl Rapist. Note that he was also a possible for rapes in Sacramento.
 I would venture to say, since he had an MO very similar to EAR as a home invasion rapist, he certainly should have been considered as a possible for The Early Morning Rapist.  The timing of Galloway's arrest make him a perfect candidate for EMR.

The Bakersfield Californian
July 20, 1876

Okay, I'm just trying to do a quick catchup here.  (I'll assume we're in 1976, not 1876 )

Do you think that Galloway is a good candidate for the VR?

If no, why not?

D.

[portofleith]

Feb 13, 2015 8:53:08 GMT Drifter said:

Feb 12, 2015 21:11:08 GMT portofleith said:

Detective Brett McGowen posted on this board the other night to reinforce what Shelby wrote about a witness description of the Ransacker having the appearance and demeanor of a special needs teen. That post has been lost, but McGowen was later kind enough to convey the point he had wanted to make on the board via email:

"Yes I posted the information about special needs person because of the way my father described the VR when he began to scream like a girl when first confronted by my father on the night of the shooting. "

Note that McGowen said VR in discussing the shooter- one and the same.

Boren, Richey and Burglartips were all arrested for their crimes which were burglaries during the same time period, so yes, there were many burglars and peepers out and about. However, only one, had the clear MO of the Ransacker.

Bennie Galloway was later determined to be the Southern Drawl Rapist. Note that he was also a possible for rapes in Sacramento.
 I would venture to say, since he had an MO very similar to EAR as a home invasion rapist, he certainly should have been considered as a possible for The Early Morning Rapist.  The timing of Galloway's arrest make him a perfect candidate for EMR.

The Bakersfield Californian
July 20, 1976

Okay, I'm just trying to do a quick catchup here.  (I'll assume we're in 1976, not 1876 )

Do you think that Galloway is a good candidate for the VR?

If no, why not?

D.

Drifter- I do not think that Galloway is a fit for the VR because he was already home invasion  raping throughout 1974-1975.  I do think he should have been considered for the EMR, since there was some kind of Sacramento link alluded to in the above article. (which should have said 1976 and not 1876.)  His similarities to EAR included threatening with a knife, spending hours in the victims homes, instilling terror and doing extensive surveillance on his victims prior to their rapes.

It is interesting to me that Galloway was called the Southern Drawl. Rapist  EAR was known to fake accents including southern and I have wondered if EAR read about Galloway.

[dengas]

"Yes I posted the information about special needs person because of the way my father described the VR when he began to scream like a girl when first confronted by my father on the night of the shooting. "


I believe the explanation "because of the way my father described the VR when he began to sream like a girl" is where we should focus our special needs attention. Had he meant that the guy appeared special needs DUE TO HIS round face and stubby fingers, I think he would have added that to the special needs description. I take him at his word that when startled, the scumbag screamed with a high-pitched voice. Maybe the guys who post on this forum can describe the sound of their voices if they have ever been truly scared! I know when I have nightmares, I can only get a low moaning sound to come out of my mouth when I am trying to scream, but when I am weeding in my garden and come across black widows, the sound I make would be described as a high pitched scream.
Is a high pitched scream odd for guys to make? I know, men probably wouldn't want to admit it, but since the whole statement, screamed like a girl is sexist, tell us the truth! Have any of you been frightened enough to actually s ream?
I

[portofleith]

Feb 13, 2015 16:26:22 GMT dengas said:

"Yes I posted the information about special needs person because of the way my father described the VR when he began to scream like a girl when first confronted by my father on the night of the shooting. "


I believe the explanation "because of the way my father described the VR when he began to sream like a girl" is where we should focus our special needs attention. Had he meant that the guy appeared special needs DUE TO HIS round face and stubby fingers, I think he would have added that to the special needs description. I take him at his word that when startled, the scumbag screamed with a high-pitched voice. Maybe the guys who post on this forum can describe the sound of their voices if they have ever been truly scared! I know when I have nightmares, I can only get a low moaning sound to come out of my mouth when I am trying to scream, but when I am weeding in my garden and come across black widows, the sound I make would be described as a high pitched scream.
Is a high pitched scream odd for guys to make? I know, men probably wouldn't want to admit it, but since the whole statement, screamed like a girl is sexist, tell us the truth! Have any of you been frightened enough to actually s ream?
I

As a seasoned lawman, McGowen would have been accustomed to dealing with men under pressure, including in the  midst of chases and arrests.   I think what Brett McGowen conveyed about his father's perception of his shooter, is that the perpetrator's response was a completely bizarre and inappropriate response.. . . . completely "off".

[threetwozero]

Isn't Galloway only like 5'2" ?

[portofleith]

Feb 13, 2015 20:21:32 GMT threetwozero said:

Isn't Galloway only like 5'2" ?

No- height within range.

[threetwozero]

That's why I was asking because it lists the suspect as 5'7- 5'9, but Bennie is really 5'4.

[threetwozero]

Size 7 shoe