Excitement's Crave

[agatha]

Nov 5, 2013 17:53:46 GMT Agent99 aka Sandia said:

Nov 5, 2013 3:47:26 GMT albion said:

Sandia, did any of the female victims frequent this beach? I would think that the Harringtons would have gone to Salt Creek and maybe walked back and forth. Janelle had gone to Laguna just prior. Its odd that Devereaux was right there near a nude beach. Turning Point Foundation is another interesting place.

I have no idea if any of the victims walked along that beach or went out to the sand dunes. 

I used to ride my bike and started out near Patterson and the 101 and biked on Calle Real to where Calle Real hit a place just past Turnpike where it was blocked off, then you could take a bike path under the 101 and somehow I ended up on the side of UCSB where El Colegio makes a sharp right and becomes Storke Road.  If instead of going right you go left, you will very quickly come to the Devereaux School,  then you can continue on past it, and it was a beautiful area, the Devereaux lagoon was on your right and just beautiful, quiet, remote country side and there were horse stables out there too.  When one finally gets out to the ocean, the Devereaux school is far behind you.  You could continue by foot to the ocean but you would have to traverse a lot of sand dunes.  When someone told me that there were couples making love in those sand dunes and nude people  I didn't want to be there, never walked through them to get out to the ocean and steered clear.  The remoteness of the area made me aware that it wasn't the safest of places to be alone.  I never saw anything but I didn't stick around or go back that far again, to the sand dunes that is.  Isla Vista was between those dunes and UCSB, I would imagine a lot of people walked along the beach, but I didn't.  Not the easiest beach to access.  

I don't want to argue, but I beg to differ. There was a beach just past my house, I believe More Mesa. It wasn't a surfing beach. Sorry if that misled you. But it WAS a nude beach. On weekends, the cars were parked along the road for miles. I saw way more binoculars get carried onto that beach than clothes! It was closer to Hope Ranch than Isla Vista. The surfers went more to the north, the nudists to the south. I hear it's warmer.....

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

Well I don't disagree if More Mesa is a nude beach. I don't know, I just know it is not Haskull's Beach and is pretty far from it. Haskull's is where the Bacara Resort is now just before you leave Goleta heading north"ish", near Winchester Canyon. Traveling back south"ish" toward Santa Barbara from Haskull's, just before Isla Vista is the Devereaux School and Coal Oil Point where I was describing. There was some sort of activity as I understand it going on in those dunes, which I did not witness for myself but was told. Then traveling even further toward Santa Barbara you go through Isla Vista, then into the University, out the other side of the university, heading toward More Mesa, you pass a nice public beach with grass and a restaurant lots of parking and no nudists and with very good flat access (no more cliffs like Isla Vista) , lots of parking and rangers I believe then if you could drive straight, which you can't, you could get to More Mesa which is almost, as you said, to Hope Ranch. So the nude beach you are talking about is no where near Haskull's beach. Whew, this is a lot to do about not very much. LOL

[boogieman]

This first line is interesting to me:

"All those mortal's surviving birth"

Besides the obvious grammatical error (I think it's safe to say he wasn't a serious writer, or he would know when to use apostrophes), why would someone say "surviving birth"? It could be that he was just trying to get enough syllables to fit his chosen meter, but there are plenty of more obvious phrases to describe being born that could fit and end in "birth". Then, there is the usage of "mortals" to refer to people, which is a typical romantic literary flourish, but also has meaning in the context. The two references to mortality in the first line do set the tone for the poem's general subject.

Now, I don't think infant mortality was a huge problem in the 70s, but it was more common in the 40s/50s, when GSK probably would have been born. If he had a sibling (or especially a twin) that was stillborn, that could be something that would weigh on his mind more than it would for the average person. That could explain the strange reference to "surviving birth". In fact, he could see himself as the "survivor", the stronger or favored one, if his sibling did not survive delivery. If it was a twin, the psychological impact would be especially strong. The most famous example I can think of would be Elvis Presley, who was deeply affected by the death of his twin brother, and thought about him constantly throughout life.

Or.. it could just be that GSK was obsessed with death and liked to reference morbid things whenever possible. Who knows?

[lepke]

Those are some original ideas I believe. Going with that theory, and tying it in with the idea that EAR/ONS had an unusual relationship with his mother, it would be easy to imagine that the pain of losing his twin, would have altered his mother's perception of EAR/ONS.

[portofleith]

Nov 8, 2013 3:08:42 GMT boogieman said:

This first line is interesting to me:

"All those mortal's surviving birth"

Besides the obvious grammatical error (I think it's safe to say he wasn't a serious writer, or he would know when to use apostrophes), why would someone say "surviving birth"? It could be that he was just trying to get enough syllables to fit his chosen meter, but there are plenty of more obvious phrases to describe being born that could fit and end in "birth". Then, there is the usage of "mortals" to refer to people, which is a typical romantic literary flourish, but also has meaning in the context. The two references to mortality in the first line do set the tone for the poem's general subject.

Now, I don't think infant mortality was a huge problem in the 70s, but it was more common in the 40s/50s, when GSK probably would have been born. If he had a sibling (or especially a twin) that was stillborn, that could be something that would weigh on his mind more than it would for the average person. That could explain the strange reference to "surviving birth". In fact, he could see himself as the "survivor", the stronger or favored one, if his sibling did not survive delivery. If it was a twin, the psychological impact would be especially strong. The most famous example I can think of would be Elvis Presley, who was deeply affected by the death of his twin brother, and thought about him constantly throughout life.

Or.. it could just be that GSK was obsessed with death and liked to reference morbid things whenever possible. Who knows?

Boogieman-  I think as well as referring to "mortals' as a literary flourish, there is also a possibility that it could be an allusion to the role of mortals in Greek mythology, which offers many stories of twins both mortals and gods.  This could be another indicator that GSK was a student ,as these myths would have been studied in a variety of Humanities courses.  There is a lack of sophistication in this writing that points to , perhaps, someone exposed to mythology, poetry or philosophy in a very general way.  

[redding]

Nov 8, 2013 17:28:12 GMT lepke said:

Those are some original ideas I believe. Going with that theory, and tying it in with the idea that EAR/ONS had an unusual relationship with his mother, it would be easy to imagine that the pain of losing his twin, would have altered his mother's perception of EAR/ONS.

Lepke and I have both put forth the idea that the GSK may of had Klinefelter's Syndrome or some other similar genetic malady. If he did then he may of seen himself as a survivor of sorts since many birth defects don't make it to full term. Most people I think would consider a healthy birth a forgone conclusion and not worth mentioning.  The fact that he opens with this idea is very interesting. 

[lepke]

Talking of birth defects, and I wonder whether any POIs were born with a cleft lip and/or palate...

[redding]

Nov 8, 2013 18:40:01 GMT lepke said:

Talking of birth defects, and I wonder whether any POIs were born with cleft palates...

That's an interesting thought. Although if the GSK had a cleft palate I don't think he would of left his mouth exposed for so many of the crimes. A scar from a cleft palate would be easy to spot in a person wearing a ski mask.  The mask would essentially frame the scar by blocking out the rest of the face.

[mb]

Having worked in the dental field for many years, I would tell you that people with actual cleft palates can have multiple surgeries. Some still are left with palatal defects. Somebody like this would be more easily traced, although dentists don't keep records longer than five to seven years. A cleft lip, on the other hand, is simpler to repair, and may leave a scar which can blend with the philtrum of the lip: one of the double lines extending from the nostril to the mid upper lip.

[jigisup]

MB, do you hear any evidence of palate surgery in the "going to kill" you recording? As a layman I don't hear anything unusual; perhaps an expert ear can detect something?

[boogieman]

Nov 8, 2013 17:28:12 GMT lepke said:

Those are some original ideas I believe. Going with that theory, and tying it in with the idea that EAR/ONS had an unusual relationship with his mother, it would be easy to imagine that the pain of losing his twin, would have altered his mother's perception of EAR/ONS.

Sure that is possible.  I wouldn't want to extrapolate too much based on a few words, but if there was a domineering or abusive mother, I'd imagine one could give a child something like survivor's guilt over such a thing. 

Another thing I remembered about Elvis and his stillborn twin.  As a child he would have conversations with him, as if he was a real person.  GSK would have conversations with imaginary people too, but I think probably just to spread a little confusion.

[boogieman]

Nov 8, 2013 22:08:53 GMT mb said:

Having worked in the dental field for many years, I would tell you that people with actual cleft palates can have multiple surgeries. Some still are left with palatal defects. Somebody like this would be more easily traced, although dentists don't keep records longer than five to seven years. A cleft lip, on the other hand, is simpler to repair, and may leave a scar which can blend with the philtrum of the lip: one of the double lines extending from the nostril to the mid upper lip.

Do you think men with cleft palate/lip scars would be more likely to wear mustaches to conceal them?  Seems like a natural thing to do, and GSK was always clean shaven, I think.

[mb]

Absolutely I think men with cleft lip scars would be inclined to wear a mustache to hide the scar. Men who are prone to cold sore outbreaks also tend to wear mustaches. However, I have an older female relative who had a cleft lip, and because of the location of the cleft, it blends nicely with her philtrum, and is, IMO barely noticeable.
The patients I have seen with bigger defects left in their palates have tended to wear a dental appliance to plug up the hole. I don't recall the folks I worked with having a noticeable speech impediment, but it is interesting that the GSK commented that "something happened to my face".
I've wondered, too, if any of the victims, in observing any identifying characteristics of the GSK during the attacks, have noticed his teeth. Were they straight or crowded? Were they yellow or more white? Was there any noticeable dental work? Did he have an overbite? Did he have halitosis? I know this is my area, but many people do focus on the appearance of other people's teeth.

[Drifter]

Interesting comments, mb.

So glad we have here a diverse group of people who can render authoritative observations on a variety of topics, including mouth and dental issues.

[lepke]

Nov 9, 2013 5:45:25 GMT mb said:

Absolutely I think men with cleft lip scars would be inclined to wear a mustache to hide the scar. Men who are prone to cold sore outbreaks also tend to wear mustaches. However, I have an older female relative who had a cleft lip, and because of the location of the cleft, it blends nicely with her philtrum, and is, IMO barely noticeable.
The patients I have seen with bigger defects left in their palates have tended to wear a dental appliance to plug up the hole. I don't recall the folks I worked with having a noticeable speech impediment, but it is interesting that the GSK commented that "something happened to my face".
I've wondered, too, if any of the victims, in observing any identifying characteristics of the GSK during the attacks, have noticed his teeth. Were they straight or crowded? Were they yellow or more white? Was there any noticeable dental work? Did he have an overbite? Did he have halitosis? I know this is my area, but many people do focus on the appearance of other people's teeth.

I have an older female relative who had a moustache.