Domingo & Sanchez: Reconstructing the events of 27 July 1981

[truthandsoul]

Sept 7, 2013 14:49:53 GMT portofleith said:

Sept 7, 2013 9:42:00 GMT lepke said:

We can be pretty certain that EAR/ONS hated women, and it also seems that he was standing in the bathroom watching and listening to Cheri and Greg for a period of time. I wonder whether, from eavesdropping on them, he was able to understand that Greg was meant to be moving away with his fiancée, and that made EAR/ONS even angrier with Cheri. My first ever post on the old board was about the childhood of EAR/ONS, and I would suggest it involved at least one of his parents being unfaithful.

The FDLE profile suggests that GSK thought all women were "whores" no matter how "nice" they were.  When LE did not make the connection of the Goleta murders to the Smith and Harrington murders of married couples, it seems to have lulled Goleta residents into believing that only unmarried couples were targets.  Heaney stated that GSK watched couples have intercourse prior to killing them.  I imagine that did make him angry if he had fixated on the female victim as representative of his mother, father's girlfriend, his wife or cheating  girlfriend, a  woman who rejected him as a teen etc.

To the extent that it helps, I have a close friend whose (ex)wife cheated on him. Since then he views women as ' "whores" no matter how "nice" ' they are to him (I think those have actually been his words, like Port's). It's obviously quite a problem for him (his admission), and quite uncomfortable at times to hang out with him in social situations. It was a change that was noticeable as he went thru the whole ordeal (finding out, getting divorced, becoming a bachelor). Its eerie how lucid he is when he talks about it (usually after a few drinks, when most men would go the other way in that thinking ).

[lepke]

If EAR/ONS was a young Vietnam veteran, then there was certainly a culture of soldiers there sleeping with prostitutes. If sleeping with a prostitute was his introduction to sex, then that may well have set the stage for him to have a messed up relationship with women and sex.

It is also not beyond the bounds of possibility that the rage EAR/ONS felt towards women, was triggered by a woman cheating on him. There must be unsolved cases from the seventies of young women disappearing, with no one ever held responsible, and jilted boyfriends as suspects, who never got convicted of anything...

[dancartell]

Sept 7, 2013 16:56:17 GMT lepke said:

If EAR/ONS was a young Vietnam veteran, then there was certainly a culture of soldiers there sleeping with prostitutes. If sleeping with a prostitute was his introduction to sex, then that may well have set the stage for him to have a messed up relationship with women and sex.

It is also not beyond the bounds of possibility that the rage EAR/ONS felt towards women, was triggered by a woman cheating on him. There must be unsolved cases from the seventies of young women disappearing, with no one ever held responsible, and jilted boyfriends as suspects, who never got convicted of anything...

Its interesting that you mention the V word because the way Cheri was tied up is how some Vietnam era military manuals stated as the preferred means for tying up prisoners who were intended for brutal treatment ....

[dancartell]

Sept 7, 2013 16:56:17 GMT lepke said:

 There must be unsolved cases from the seventies of young women disappearing, with no one ever held responsible, and jilted boyfriends as suspects, who never got convicted of anything...

Its ironic you mention this because while going through some case I found this case that I think matches , the location is also ironic    but the case below it is quite sad



miadatabase.webs.com/apps/blog/categories/show/1552549-dana-point-jane-doe

[rogdomingo]

Sept 6, 2013 1:41:04 GMT truthandsoul said:

Sept 5, 2013 12:29:20 GMT rogdomingo said:

A crucial omission in steps 1-9, above, is the DNA evidence. The terrific new Cold Case Unit in Santa Barbara was strongly leaning toward the view that the Goleta crimes were not committed by EAR, until (in 2011?) improved DNA testing verified the connection. I am impressed and grateful to the lab personnel who found, isolated, and preserved semen on the bedding, and to whoever took the initiative of applying those new procedures to the remnant of the original sample.

I strongly suspect that ONS's release of that sample did not occur until after the killing frenzy had been exhausted on both Greg and Cheri. It is impossible that he would have been able to perform until he had finished with Greg. Likewise, the rage unleashed on Greg surely didn't subside enough for sexual activity involving Cheri, and then resume, yielding even greater violence to her, especially given the sense of panic after the gunshot and scream. The semen was not deposited on Cheri, but only on the bedding. Therefore, I would revise step #9 in this way:

9) ONS now murders Cheri (with one fatal blow), repeatedly and savagely extending the weapon above and far behind his head (clear cast-off trails on ceiling and back/closet wall), (Probably the plugger's box sometimes struck with its corner edge of steel and at others with the flat side as a "blunt object," roughly 2 1/2" by 3"), vents even more rage on Cheri than on Greg, TAKES THE TIME TO EJECT SEMEN ONTO THE BEDDING, and then removes the ligatures and escapes (thru the bathroom door)

Thanks for the above. Yes, I don't know where to fit the semen into the picture...are you sure it was semen? and not other DNA evidence? I think nowadays they can get DNA evidence even from non-bodily fluids ("touch" DNA, which I think is a fancy name for dead skin cells, for example).

I'm going to put together a little crime scene diagram.

I don't have any knowledge that it was.  There was "a small amount of evidence" on the bedding (-LE to me within the past 2 years). My knowledge of EAR's MO of self-stimulation before approaching the female to achieve climax was the basis of my conjecture.

[rogdomingo]

Sept 5, 2013 14:24:23 GMT neksanalet said:

Sept 5, 2013 12:29:20 GMT rogdomingo said:

A crucial omission in steps 1-9, above, is the DNA evidence. The terrific new Cold Case Unit in Santa Barbara was strongly leaning toward the view that the Goleta crimes were not committed by EAR, until (in 2011?) improved DNA testing verified the connection. I am impressed and grateful to the lab personnel who found, isolated, and preserved semen on the bedding, and to whoever took the initiative of applying those new procedures to the remnant of the original sample.

I strongly suspect that ONS's release of that sample did not occur until after the killing frenzy had been exhausted on both Greg and Cheri. It is impossible that he would have been able to perform until he had finished with Greg. Likewise, the rage unleashed on Greg surely didn't subside enough for sexual activity involving Cheri, and then resume, yielding even greater violence to her, especially given the sense of panic after the gunshot and scream. The semen was not deposited on Cheri, but only on the bedding. Therefore, I would revise step #9 in this way:

9) ONS now murders Cheri (with one fatal blow), repeatedly and savagely extending the weapon above and far behind his head (clear cast-off trails on ceiling and back/closet wall), (Probably the plugger's box sometimes struck with its corner edge of steel and at others with the flat side as a "blunt object," roughly 2 1/2" by 3"), vents even more rage on Cheri than on Greg, TAKES THE TIME TO EJECT SEMEN ONTO THE BEDDING, and then removes the ligatures and escapes (thru the bathroom door)

I think your nine steps are certainly the most logical and (taking into account unreleased facts of the case) accurate sequence of events. Your participation here (as everyone else has already stated) is much appreciated. 

The nine steps came from TruthAndSoul, and I have added my nickel's worth to those.

[rogdomingo]

Sept 6, 2013 16:29:42 GMT truthandsoul said:

Putting it all together (example, the deep foot impressions in the bathroom carpet), and the timeline he had to deal with after supposedly wanting to flee quickly after shooting Greg, could he have masturbated to the scene of Cheri and Greg love making (therefore, prior to murdering them) and some trace amount of semen on his hands or clothing was left at the crime scene (example, on the bedding)?

Otherwise, if Cheri and Greg had sex, I assume it would be more difficult for LE to confirm that ONS had sexually assaulted Cheri.

Also, the way it appears like ONS bound Cheri (see above quote from ST) isn't consistent with the way he normally bound the victims that he sexually assaulted.


The last two are questions, I guess.

Masturbation in the bathroom while peeping, and later transfer to the bedding, seems very plausible to me.
Hog tying (thanks for the description and verification) would be consistent with my theory of hasty restraint  prior to finishing off Greg.  That, along with so much else that we know, would support the view that once Greg had been shot-but-not-killed, Cheri ceased to be a sex target and became one of several loose ends to be tied up (literally), and one of two intended victims whose foiling of EAR's plan that night unleashed his violent rage and hurried exit.

[rogdomingo]

For all this time I had pictured the bludgeoning of both Greg and Cheri to have been facial. Surely I had encountered contrary statements, but had never internalized them. As of today I will rethink of it as to the back of the head in both cases. Thanks to all. Also, The emerging construction worker/painter leads are most encouraging.

[truthandsoul]

Sept 10, 2013 21:28:41 GMT rogdomingo said:

For all this time I had pictured the bludgeoning of both Greg and Cheri to have been facial. Surely I had encountered contrary statements, but had never internalized them. As of today I will rethink of it as to the back of the head in both cases. Thanks to all. Also, The emerging construction worker/painter leads are most encouraging.

I'm actually picturing Greg's wounds to be back of the head (after he fell down face first in the closet) and Cheri's to be facial (as you say, a neighbor had to ID her at the morgue based on features other than her face). But I'm open to further conclusions based on the narratives we've heard/read.

Yes, we're all excited about the new lead.

I still owe a pictorial timeline of the murder of Greg and Cheri, too. Try for that tonight.

[Deleted]

Sept 10, 2013 21:28:41 GMT rogdomingo said:

For all this time I had pictured the bludgeoning of both Greg and Cheri to have been facial. Surely I had encountered contrary statements, but had never internalized them. As of today I will rethink of it as to the back of the head in both cases. Thanks to all. Also, The emerging construction worker/painter leads are most encouraging.uickly

The crime scene photo they flashed on one of the tv documentaries shows Cheri laying face down, I am almost certain, and it fits your narrative of ONS quickly tying her and then delivering the blows. Her head may have been to the side, possibly looking towards Greg's direction or at ONS, and sustained some facial damage. Cheri looked very petite, so it may have been the case that she would have however she had been hit.
It would have been difficult for an acquaintance to have positively ID'd her, especially with head trauma.

Larry Crompton wrote she was killed with one blow. They may all have been killed with one blow, the women anyway, with the overkill happening after the killing blow. That would be in the autopsy reports, obviously, but it seems likely for a couple of reasons.  Your scenario of a rushed crime being primary maybe, in the case of Cheri.

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

I've been reading through the last several pages on this topic this evening trying to catch up and wanted to mention a couple of things.

Roger Domingo said he did not recall a window in the bathroom door or in the bathroom yet in Sudden Terror, pg. 444 paper back, it says there was a small window that was found open, the screen had been removed and found hidden in some nearby bushes and that the window was too small to crawl through but close enough to allow an arm to reach through and unlock the door. So Roger do you think you just don't recall or do you think Det. Crompton was wrong?

This must be very hard for Deb to revisit and I apologize for any pain you are going through right now some of these things must be excruciating.

I have read some profilers say that covering the body after death = remorse (I have a hard time buying that in this case) but I read elsewhere that GSK simply learned to cover the body before bludgeoning to avoid getting blood all over himself and elsewhere. He had Cheri tied up so he could have covered her before killing her, yet he didn't. I would think panic in losing control, the gun going off, and Cheri saying in a loud enough voice for a neighbor to hear "hey, take it easy" would account for that. Yet the semen on the blanket would indicate he didn't rush out after the gunshot and killing them. That is a head scratcher. It also graphically shows what a sadist he was. This particular case has always brought home to me how badly this guy must be caught and made to pay!

Also, I could imagine Cheri saying those words when he first appeared in the room and when Greg first got up to confront him. That is just the way I visualize it. The neighbor not calling the police is completely unexplainable to me. She heard the words and the gun and didn't call?

So he removed the ligatures and the murder weapon and blood drops were found leading to the foot bridge that goes over the San Juan creek. The other side of that bridge is a neighborhood whose street ends at the bridge. I am thinking he parked his car on that street or nearby on the other side of the creek and he must have transported the murder weapon in his car. I wonder where he disposed of the weapon. It would have been found if he threw it in the creek by LE and kids use that creek to play in all the time. Possibly in a construction dumpster on Calle Real?

The way f1 describes the noise of a gun, makes me incredulous that the whole neighborhood would not have heard it and multiple calls should have been made to the police. Yet one neighbor DID hear a gun so it doesn't look like a silencer was used. I have a question about that. Are some guns more quiet than others? Did he use a quiet gun if there is such a thing?

I enjoyed reading ALL of the above points made by the posters on this board, some really good thinking going on.

[portofleith]

The perplexing thing for me is the amount of dog blood found on the sidewalk and bridge. Was GSK still in a rage when he left the scene and killed a roaming dog or, if he was the young man standing under the tree, with his dog, did he kill or injure his own dog? Or is this dog injury a coincidence? I wonder how many animals were injured in that neighborhood dating from the strange dog stabbing prior to the Queen Anne?
attack?

This treatment of animals could be another indicator of an unraveling EAR/GSK , whereas he once had the patience to be a dog whisperer, yet in Goleta he had transformed into a dog dispatcher.

[Deleted]

99 said:
"I have a question about that. Are some guns more quiet than others? Did he use a quiet gun if there is such a thing?"

The weapon used in the NorCal rapes was reported to be a large caliber handgun, In the only news report I remember about this the victim stated that he could see the rounds in the gun. That makes it a revolver. I did my military service pre-Vietnam and our sidearm was the .45 auto. I have also fired .38 revolvers, .357 magnums and a .44 magnum. Every one I ever fired made a lot of noise.

[rogdomingo]

I'M SHOUTING, sorry, but this is important. Please HELP ME un-ring a bell. In recent posts, I ignorantly reported that Cheri's face was bludgeoned beyond recognition. I'm now pretty sure that I was wrong about that, and have been for 30+ years. Early-on I got that image in my mind, and it was reinforced by more recent info about EAR's pattern of making men witness the violation of the women, and of his frequent sadistic tormenting of the women with the sight of the gun/knife/whatever. The day after Cheri and Greg's bodies were discovered, Santa Barbara LE told me that Cheri had probably been killed by the first blow "to her head" and then bludgeoned repeatedly (un-numbered blood cast-off trails that they showed me across the ceiling confirmed it). The image my mind drew was of Cheri looking up at the weapon as it was plunging toward her face. My conversation with the neighbor/fireman who made the official identification seemed to confirm that picture, but I now believe that I misunderstood what he was saying. Keep in mind the amount of shock and emotion both he and I were experiencing. His statement was probably something like, "They asked me to go down and make the identification; (wincing) it was really difficult." That seemed to confirm my notion of "beyond recognition," and that is what I posted during the past few days. With the new understanding that Cheri was "hogtied" face-down, wrists tied to ankles, I now see a different picture: the death blow and bludgeoning delivered to the back of her head. With that point of reference, the word "difficult" would more likely be a description of the experience, as opposed to "difficulty in making the identification."

[rogdomingo]

Regarding the removed screen, and ("little") window in the master-bathroom-exterior-wall: I simply have no recollection of these details. That in no way disputes others' reports that there was such an opportunity for an arm to reach in and unlock the bathroom door. It would be consistent with EAR's methodology if he had visited the house in the afternoon (as a real estate client) and prepared three points of entry: the sliding glass door in the living area (where finger prints were taken), the exterior bathroom door, and the small window of that bathroom.