New to the board; have noob questions (please don't be mad!)

[rkz]

Hello! I'm new to this board but I've been reading a lot about the EAR/ONS/GSK over the last few months, and have read most of the articles I could find and Larry Crompton's Sudden Terror, and I have a few questions. I hope no one's asked these questions recently and I just can't find them elsewhere on the board. If there are previous discussions about these, please let me know and I can remove my post. Thank you.

So these are the questions I've been wondering about:

1. Crompton and others have noted that police dogs that were used to track EAR's scent "went crazy." Apprently dogs sensed that there was something terribly wrong with the suspect - some sort of chemical imbalance. Which leads me to ask: specifically, what kind of chemical imbalance or other problem can dogs sense through scent? And, I know this is asking you to speculate, but what specific problem could EAR have had to set dogs off like that?


2. Are there any suspects currently being looked at as being EAR and can anyone divulge their names? One of the more bizarre things about this case, unlike the Zodiac and other still-unsolved serial killer cases, is that there are so few suspects. Brett Glasby, for instance, is the only one I can name, and he's been ruled out because he died in 1982 (my next question addresses this). But are there any that have been looked at that can't be ruled out by DNA?

3. Are LE sure that Janelle Cruz is definitively an EAR/ONS victim? I'm sorry if I overlooked a crucial article or factoid from Crompton's book, but did they link Cruz to the other Goleta murders through a semen or blood match?

4. Are there any reported or rumored contacts with EAR after 1986? I've heard rumors that he tried to call a victim in 1991 (although Crompton disputes this in Michelle McNamara's podcast). Are there any reported incidences of EAR trying to contact victims or any similar crimes that can be tied to EAR after 1986?

5. When EAR moved south to Goleta, were there any crimes that can be linked to him that weren't murders/attempted murders? Break-ins, ransackings/burglaries, etc.?

6. I'm also something of a Zodiac Killer buff and I'm always checking up on any new info on those cases. In the Zodiac investigation, there is a well-known string of phony or misleading books and other resources that online investigators think should be disregarded and/or shied away from. For instance, a lot of "real" Zodiac investigators are now of the opinion that Robert Graysmith's books are kind of shoddy and semi-fictional or untrustworthy. Are there any sources out there that you think amateurs/newbies should stay away from when looking into the EAR/ONS?

Sorry if this is too much to answer at once, but these were things I was really curious about (especially #1 - I've been wondering about this ever since I read Sudden Terror.). Thanks!

[truthandsoul]

Sept 3, 2013 22:56:42 GMT rkz said:

Hello! I'm new to this board but I've been reading a lot about the EAR/ONS/GSK over the last few months, and have read most of the articles I could find and Larry Crompton's Sudden Terror, and I have a few questions. I hope no one's asked these questions recently and I just can't find them elsewhere on the board. If there are previous discussions about these, please let me know and I can remove my post. Thank you.

So these are the questions I've been wondering about:

1. Crompton and others have noted that police dogs that were used to track EAR's scent "went crazy." Apprently dogs sensed that there was something terribly wrong with the suspect - some sort of chemical imbalance. Which leads me to ask: specifically, what kind of chemical imbalance or other problem can dogs sense through scent? And, I know this is asking you to speculate, but what specific problem could EAR have had to set dogs off like that?


2. Are there any suspects currently being looked at as being EAR and can anyone divulge their names? One of the more bizarre things about this case, unlike the Zodiac and other still-unsolved serial killer cases, is that there are so few suspects. Brett Glasby, for instance, is the only one I can name, and he's been ruled out because he died in 1982 (my next question addresses this). But are there any that have been looked at that can't be ruled out by DNA?

3. Are LE sure that Janelle Cruz is definitively an EAR/ONS victim? I'm sorry if I overlooked a crucial article or factoid from Crompton's book, but did they link Cruz to the other Goleta murders through a semen or blood match?

4. Are there any reported or rumored contacts with EAR after 1986? I've heard rumors that he tried to call a victim in 1991 (although Crompton disputes this in Michelle McNamara's podcast). Are there any reported incidences of EAR trying to contact victims or any similar crimes that can be tied to EAR after 1986?

5. When EAR moved south to Goleta, were there any crimes that can be linked to him that weren't murders/attempted murders? Break-ins, ransackings/burglaries, etc.?

6. I'm also something of a Zodiac Killer buff and I'm always checking up on any new info on those cases. In the Zodiac investigation, there is a well-known string of phony or misleading books and other resources that online investigators think should be disregarded and/or shied away from. For instance, a lot of "real" Zodiac investigators are now of the opinion that Robert Graysmith's books are kind of shoddy and semi-fictional or untrustworthy. Are there any sources out there that you think amateurs/newbies should stay away from when looking into the EAR/ONS?

Sorry if this is too much to answer at once, but these were things I was really curious about (especially #1 - I've been wondering about this ever since I read Sudden Terror.). Thanks!

Welcome rkz! Thanks for asking the questions; they're all good! Don't be shy!

I'm sure others will chime in, too, but here's a few answers:

1. Pass  (but a good question)

2. There are a number of POIs/Suspects being vetted by LE and others, but to my knowledge, there's nothing substantial, only circumstantial that ties the suspects to the crimes, and obviously, DNA linkage would be the crucial ingredient to any hard evidence.

It is an interesting case, unlike Zodiac, where there's basically no publically known suspects.
I think part of the Zodiac is that there were a number of "informants" like Goldcatcher, that were able to feed information on suspects.
In this case, there's been none (at least, to my knowledge, unless they've only contacted LE).
I think also, since most of the Zodiac suspects are deceased, it is not as sensitive a legal issue to discuss those suspects online.

3. Yes, Janelle's been linked via DNA evidence at the crime scene to the Original Night Stalker (ONS).

4. Yes, there are substantiated rumors of calls, at least in 1991 and in early 2000 when the DNA evidence tying the EAR to the ONS came out. There's less sustantiated rumors of calls in-between and as recent as 2009. But the content and validity of those calls is uncertain.

5. Yes, there were (at least) five burglaries the night of the Manning / Offerman murders, for example. We've discussed this in the "Goleta" thread in this sub-forum.

6. There aren't too many books. In fact, besides Sudden Terror and the new Hot Prowl, I'm not aware of any. Both of those are good, with ST being more fact-based and comprehensive on the individual (EAR) crimes. Unlike RG's Zodiac book, I don't think there was a particular intent of naming a suspect or making some broad statements on the case with either one of these books. We often reference EAR crimes from ST herein.

[rocker]

Welcome, rkz. As to question #4; below is a link to a thread on this board.

earonsgsk.proboards.com/thread/174/1991-phone-call-lab-errors

[truthandsoul]

Back to #5, here's the thread on "Goleta" which contained some details of the burglaries that happened

earonsgsk.proboards.com/thread/8/goleta

Sandia knows a lot about the events of the night of the Manning Offerman murders in Goleta.

[rkz]

Much appreciated! Thank you for the welcomes, and thank you for the links to other threads. I appreciate getting to know this stuff. I didn't know about the other robberies the night of the Manning/Offerman murder. Unfortunately, I had to return my copy of Sudden Terror to the library recently so I don't have a copy in front of me.

I really wish I knew the answer to #1, about the dogs. Previous to reading about the EAR, I'd never heard of police dogs reacting strangely to people who had some sort of disease or chemical imbalance. I wonder if there's other cases where police dogs were brought in and reacted strangely to a suspect or others with diseases.

Anyways, thank you!

[truthandsoul]

Sept 4, 2013 0:51:50 GMT rkz said:

Much appreciated! Thank you for the welcomes, and thank you for the links to other threads. I appreciate getting to know this stuff. I didn't know about the other robberies the night of the Manning/Offerman murder. Unfortunately, I had to return my copy of Sudden Terror to the library recently so I don't have a copy in front of me.

I really wish I knew the answer to #1, about the dogs. Previous to reading about the EAR, I'd never heard of police dogs reacting strangely to people who had some sort of disease or chemical imbalance. I wonder if there's other cases where police dogs were brought in and reacted strangely to a suspect or others with diseases.

Anyways, thank you!

The burglaries are briefly mentioned in Sudden Terror, but people like Sandia have more information that makes them fit in with the overall MO.

I think someone on the board knows the answer to #1, I just don't, so in a rare showing of self-restraing, I didn't speculate

[Drifter]

Hi rkz:

Just wanted to pop in here quickly to say that I vaguely recall some discussion of the dogs strange over-reaction (question 1) from the A&E board. Will try to find that thread later tonite. Or maybe someone else remembers that discussion.

Anyway, welcome to the board. Hope you post often. All your questions are good.

Later.

Cheers,

Drifter

[Relentless]

Sept 4, 2013 0:51:50 GMT rkz said:

Much appreciated! Thank you for the welcomes, and thank you for the links to other threads. I appreciate getting to know this stuff. I didn't know about the other robberies the night of the Manning/Offerman murder. Unfortunately, I had to return my copy of Sudden Terror to the library recently so I don't have a copy in front of me.

I really wish I knew the answer to #1, about the dogs. Previous to reading about the EAR, I'd never heard of police dogs reacting strangely to people who had some sort of disease or chemical imbalance. I wonder if there's other cases where police dogs were brought in and reacted strangely to a suspect or others with diseases.

Anyways, thank you!

Welcome rkz,

ST the book is online for free, here is the link www.scribd.com/doc/74858423/Sudden-Terror

[Relentless]

Here is one thing does can smell in a human news.medill.northwestern.edu/chicago/news.aspx?id=220149

[truthandsoul]

Sept 4, 2013 2:44:03 GMT Relentless said:

Here is one thing does can smell in a human news.medill.northwestern.edu/chicago/news.aspx?id=220149

I was gonna guess that since the East Area Rapist is a non-secretor the dogs somehow sensed this, or the complication from some medical condition due to being a non-secretor.

[Relentless]

;-|Maybe he worked for Alpo. Kidding of course.

[Drifter]

";-|Maybe he worked for Alpo."

[Drifter]

quote from rkz:
"So these are the questions I've been wondering about:

1. Crompton and others have noted that police dogs that were used to track EAR's scent "went crazy." Apprently dogs sensed that there was something terribly wrong with the suspect - some sort of chemical imbalance. Which leads me to ask: specifically, what kind of chemical imbalance or other problem can dogs sense through scent? And, I know this is asking you to speculate, but what specific problem could EAR have had to set dogs off like that?"
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The link below takes you to an A&E thread that discusses your question. Note especially the responses from Archangel76. There's other stuff in that thread but I link it here because it does, to a limited extend, respond to your question number 1.

I have done a Google search using relevant keywords. You can do the same. You'll find all kinds of articles that discuss possible diseases that a dog can detect in humans. The subject gets really technical and complex owing to the biological/genes/DNA/medical components that make up scent.

Pick your choice of article to read, using these Google keywords, and any other keywords you can think of ... "police" "dogs" "human scent" "drugs" "disease" "non-secretor". There's an unlimited number of articles to read. But none of them that I found address specifically why the dogs "went crazy" re: the EAR/ONS scent.

One possibility is that they "went crazy" simply because they picked up a strong detection of EAR/ONS scent, not necessarily because there was some "chemical imbalance".  The Sudden Terror paragraph specifically refutes this.  But it's a matter of subjective interpretation of the dogs responses.  It's possible the dogs reaction was to drugs or disease, but I don't know how the trainers would know for sure, short of asking the dog.

Here's that A&E link.  If it doesn't work, go to the A&E Board, page 13, "Drug Addiction" from EyesOn.

community.aetv.com/service/displayDiscussionThreads.kickAction?as=119137&w=278284&d=911312&d-1169404-p=1

[rocker]

Um, Drifter... I`m getting the ole "404 - File not found"


Update: Nevermind...

[Drifter]

Yeah, I have changed the url address. Try it again.