SB Co Sheriff: new lead and request for information

[LadyoftheLake]

Sept 12, 2013 12:40:19 GMT skelly said:

I'm sure their's more to this evidence than they have released. I'm guessing they already matched the paint to that specific building and that's why they were confident enough to ask the public's help. My guess is they were running down how the paint could have arrived at the scenes and thought maybe he was in construction/painter. Than they looked for buildings in the area of the crime that were being built, or construction. Than they visited the place and looked for similar colored paint and made a match. I doubt they would release this info based on a hunch.

I think you make a good point there.  They've certainly gotten mass media's attention and now the case out there before many more eyes.  Now, they could end up with millions of "tips," on places and people; way too many to deal with.  But, if they have matched the paint to a particular building, then they can now screen the tips and investigate only those POIs that apply to the particular place.  Too, if they named the specific place, the murdering rapist would know they were closing in on him.  

On the other hand, maybe they are clueless on the place.  In 1976 (bicentennial) there were lots of companies changing names, painting their fleets, and many gas stations and grocery stores being bought up and having their names changed.  Red, white, and blue all over the place.  I would think it would be next to impossible to narrow down the place the paint originated.  Could be that the blue came from a pipe wrench if he was bludgeoning victims or the handle on his hammer.

I hope that when they do find a suspect, they post his name on their cold case site (Many do post suspects that they didn't have enough evidence to charge with the particular crime.).  Then associates might rat on him, tell of his known felonies so LE can obtain some DNA.
 

[Drifter]

Sept 12, 2013 4:43:39 GMT movieman said:

truthandsoul and I Skyped briefly this evening about the recent media attention and evidence pertaining to these cases.

With all the articles coming out in the last few days, I thought a brief video recap discussing these new items could bring in more people.

Feel free to share if you'd like.

(There is nothing in this video that you haven't already heard.)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GpIg9m4mfI

Terrific, just terrific!

Thanks movieman and T&S for creating this video.  Excellent presentation.

[Drifter]

Just now catching up on this new info, as I have been away last few days.

Really, really good messages in this thread.

Since the paint chips were found at three different attack sites, two in northern California and one in Irvine, I take it that our guy wasn't just some passerby who happened to take up residence in an under construction building wherein he picked up paint on his duffel bag. Instead, he was in some way connected or joined to the construction site, via employment.

But I'm trying to wrap my head around the idea that he actually did work in the daytime. How can that be, given that he was up all night and spent much of his day doing victim recon?

Are we saying that he worked on an irregular basis, on for a few days in a row, then off for a week? How does his work at a construction site (painter or allied craftsman) fit in with criminal behavior that was so time consuming?

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

Sept 13, 2013 8:48:37 GMT Drifter said:

Sept 12, 2013 4:43:39 GMT movieman said:

truthandsoul and I Skyped briefly this evening about the recent media attention and evidence pertaining to these cases.

With all the articles coming out in the last few days, I thought a brief video recap discussing these new items could bring in more people.

Feel free to share if you'd like.

(There is nothing in this video that you haven't already heard.)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GpIg9m4mfI

Terrific, just terrific!

Thanks movieman and T&S for creating this video.  Excellent presentation.

Yes, I want to second what Drifter said. Great job movieman and T&S!

[zforce]

Sept 13, 2013 0:21:13 GMT lepke said:

If the police really had a good suspect, how difficult legally would it be for them to do what they did with The Grim Sleeper suspect, and find a way to obtain his DNA through being sneaky. In The Grim Sleeper case, I believe that the police were alerted to the suspect after his son's DNA ended up in the system for something less serious, and because it was so close to The Grim Sleeper's, they were able to proceed from there. Unless there has been some kind of match on familial DNA with EAR/ONS, then where would the investigators stand from a legal point of view, if they wanted to obtain the DNA of a suspect by taking a sample from somewhere he had eaten for example? Would it be against the rules to arrest a suspect for something minor, as a means of getting a DNA sample?

If LE wants to get the DNA of a suspect, it's one of the easiest things to do. A ton of loopholes here, but lately the route they've been taking is to find a family member who synpathizes with LE's case and link the person through familial DNA. Beats the sneaking around.

[lepke]

Sept 13, 2013 8:59:54 GMT Drifter said:

Just now catching up on this new info, as I have been away last few days.

Really, really good messages in this thread.

Since the paint chips were found at three different attack sites, two in northern California and one in Irvine, I take it that our guy wasn't just some passerby who happened to take up residence in an under construction building wherein he picked up paint on his duffel bag. Instead, he was in some way connected or joined to the construction site, via employment.

But I'm trying to wrap my head around the idea that he actually did work in the daytime. How can that be, given that he was up all night and spent much of his day doing victim recon?

Are we saying that he worked on an irregular basis, on for a few days in a row, then off for a week? How does his work at a construction site (painter or allied craftsman) fit in with criminal behavior that was so time consuming?

How did EAR/ONS stay awake to perhaps work, as well as for recon and attacks? By taking drugs to stay awake possibly, maybe even like in Vietnam...

[lepke]

Sept 13, 2013 9:40:24 GMT zforce said:

Sept 13, 2013 0:21:13 GMT lepke said:

If the police really had a good suspect, how difficult legally would it be for them to do what they did with The Grim Sleeper suspect, and find a way to obtain his DNA through being sneaky. In The Grim Sleeper case, I believe that the police were alerted to the suspect after his son's DNA ended up in the system for something less serious, and because it was so close to The Grim Sleeper's, they were able to proceed from there. Unless there has been some kind of match on familial DNA with EAR/ONS, then where would the investigators stand from a legal point of view, if they wanted to obtain the DNA of a suspect by taking a sample from somewhere he had eaten for example? Would it be against the rules to arrest a suspect for something minor, as a means of getting a DNA sample?

If LE wants to get the DNA of a suspect, it's one of the easiest things to do. A ton of loopholes here, but lately the route they've been taking is to find a family member who synpathizes with LE's case and link the person through familial DNA. Beats the sneaking around.

I think that sneaking around is preferable, possible legal issues aside. The police could misjudge the sympathies of a family member, who could then alert the suspect. Getting the DNA of the actual suspect, via cutlery they have used to eat a meal out for example, obviously without the suspect realising what had happened after he had left a restaurant, seems like a good way to go in my opinion.

[lepke]

Sept 13, 2013 4:40:56 GMT cerulean said:

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Sept 12, 2013 23:19:48 GMT f1guyus said:

I'm not sure it did. I think somebody had to die before law enforcement could act on info they have had for years. For example the just released map and writings named in the LA Magazine story have been in the possession of LE for years. And all the connections to elementary school, a male teacher etc have been known for years. Something else is going on here. Maybe LE knows EAR is gone, maybe it's a cop who had something to do with the case.  Or maybe someone whose reputation just couldn't be besmirched by a connection to a serial rapist/killer. Even if he was just an employee not a relative. And the person who died has to be dead long enough so nobody will make the connection. Unless it's EAR himself. Then there will be headlines.

It was emphatically stated more than once by Michelle MacNamara that the new evidence of the map and writings are in fact very new, as they were found in an evidence store room and had been long ago forgotten by the det that collected them.  Now this is a fishy story when you question why something so important, such as a map and writings that contained names, were immediately put aside and forgotten about, but that is what is on the record as fact.  Because it was alluded to only in these writings, they actually did not know about a possible connection to a 6th grade teacher.

Who would be so important that a serial rapist or a vicious stranger murderer would be covered up? No one. Literally, no one. He may have been passed over as a suspect because his dad was a cop and gave an alibi for him, or that his parents were wealthy and he seemed cean cut, or he may have been a preachers son, all reasons for a cop to look him over and pass him by as a suspect, with all their trust in their great intuition; feh. But he could have easily been passed over in any other middle-to-upper-middle class family.  Even in all of these situations mentioned, there is usually one person, a service worker, etc, who has to deal with these people, are sick of them, and then
 there is talk, and eventually some suspicon is cast on some nice young man.  And the cops still wont buy it.

Here's one to check out. Has one guy been the one issued to the EARONS tip line for years, answering and throwing away all the accurate tips that have come in?

I don't think that the possible connection to the sixth grade teacher should be given any special credence. I am not saying that it isn't good to try and come up with theories, but let's not pretend that this theory in particular had any conclusive evidence to support it. We don't know for a fact that those writings were left by EAR/ONS; if they were left by him then we don't know if they were a deliberate plant to mislead the police; we don't know if they were written by him at all; if they were written by him he could have deliberately made up a fiction for the police to chase; we don't know that he went to that school; we don't know if he was taught by that teacher.

I would be very happy if in fact the theory with the teacher leads to the identification of EAR/ONS, but considering that the police have known about the writings for some time, and likely also the theory regarding that particular teacher, whose name was once foolishly announced on the AETV board, they would have been incompetent not to have already apprehended a suspect of the basis that he must have been in that teacher's class.

[smitty2011]

Forgive me if this theory has been posted recently. While watching Movie Mans' interview of Truth & Soul, l I was thinking about the paint evidence. Since LE did not release what crime scenes it was found at,  what would be the logical locations ? And why would this be important ?  If yes,  why ?  Someone mentioned in a prior post,  paint batches vary from batch to batch. I don't know if you analyze them at the molecular level if they change but if we assume they change ever so slightly from batch to batch then the paint found should have been created and used around the same time frame. Logical reasoning would then lead me to deduce the chips found would have to be from 1979 and produced in sufficient quantities to be used at multiple locations where they needed the same exact color, such as a logo (credit to whoever posted that idea). If LE was able to match the paint to a specific building in Santa Barbara and it was also found at Sacramento area crimes, its origin would have to be No. Cal area since those crimes came before SB. One exception,  was EAR already working in Goleta and  traveling back and forth, going  home on his days off. And in all likelihood, he was working for the same firm. Why would different contractors have the same paint ?  Since there are no crimes in No. Cal after 1979 attributed to EAR, the samples found there would have to have come from a Sacramento area construction site Once that job was complete they went to the next location, Goleta, to finish that project. Feel free to pick apart my logic. 

[guessting]

Sept 11, 2013 23:07:45 GMT Relentless said:

Sept 11, 2013 22:35:42 GMT guessting said:

Painters Union 357!

?

It was the painters union in the 70's and likely still is...

[dogs]

I have found nothing in the press that states paint was found at any of the Sacramento crime scenes. In all of the latest stories, it says "paint flecks were found at 2 of the rape scenes and a murder scene in Irvine". Although the reference is not very precise, I assume that means rapes in Irvine.

However, Sac Sheriff spokesman Jason Ramos also weighed in: “In more than one of our cases there was evidence of paint,” said Ramos.

Does this mean more than one of the Sacramento cases? Or is it the generic "our", as in "our team"?

[dogs]

INTERNATIONAL UNION OF PAINTERS AND ALLIED TRADES (IUPAT) is the representative union for painters. It has 3 locals in Sacramento: 487, 767 and 1237, all staffed out of an office on Governor's Circle (Hwy 99 @ Florin).

[dancartell]

Sept 13, 2013 10:41:38 GMT lepke said:

Sept 13, 2013 8:59:54 GMT Drifter said:

Just now catching up on this new info, as I have been away last few days.

Really, really good messages in this thread.

Since the paint chips were found at three different attack sites, two in northern California and one in Irvine, I take it that our guy wasn't just some passerby who happened to take up residence in an under construction building wherein he picked up paint on his duffel bag. Instead, he was in some way connected or joined to the construction site, via employment.

But I'm trying to wrap my head around the idea that he actually did work in the daytime. How can that be, given that he was up all night and spent much of his day doing victim recon?

Are we saying that he worked on an irregular basis, on for a few days in a row, then off for a week? How does his work at a construction site (painter or allied craftsman) fit in with criminal behavior that was so time consuming?

How did EAR/ONS stay awake to perhaps work, as well as for recon and attacks? By taking drugs to stay awake possibly, maybe even like in Vietnam...

Precisely what I thought !    If it was today I would have also added energy drinks to that equation
I wonder what sort sort of energy drinks there were in the mid to late 70`s .....

[dancartell]

Sept 13, 2013 10:47:12 GMT lepke said:

Sept 13, 2013 9:40:24 GMT zforce said:

If LE wants to get the DNA of a suspect, it's one of the easiest things to do. A ton of loopholes here, but lately the route they've been taking is to find a family member who synpathizes with LE's case and link the person through familial DNA. Beats the sneaking around.

I think that sneaking around is preferable, possible legal issues aside. The police could misjudge the sympathies of a family member, who could then alert the suspect. Getting the DNA of the actual suspect, via cutlery they have used to eat a meal out for example, obviously without the suspect realising what had happened after he had left a restaurant, seems like a good way to go in my opinion.

Something similar occurred in the GS case  and in one of the episodes of cold case files they took an empty coffee cup the suspect had discarded .....

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

Sept 12, 2013 20:34:35 GMT portofleith said:

Sept 12, 2013 20:13:48 GMT ED5000 said:

So, the rapes in question were before Offerman/Manning (which is the time frame they're thinking he might have been involved in the painting of the mal?) How long, I wonder?... If paint matching the paint used at the mall was found from rapes scenes BEFORE the mall painting began and then later at a murder scene when the painting was likely finished..... this would make it less likely that he just stole the bag from the painting site? It would mean he'd have had repeated contact with this exact paint?

I think we need to keep in mind that every worker at a construction site, as others have pointed out, could be carrying tool bags, that may have been set down, with the potential to transfer any of the construction materials such as paint or concrete dust or sawdust, etc.  to that bag.  For example, a tile setter might leave  a site with a tool belt that had paint chips on it, even though he was not a painter.

We have long noted all of the new construction occurring near the Southern California crime scenes, as well as Davis, Modesto and Stockton.  GSK could have been anyone who walked on to those sites in any capacity.

I wonder if the strange Modesto taxi incident where the passenger was dropped off near the new development , might help narrow possibilities.  Perhaps looking at firms working at that particular development might be useful.

I think this is a really important observation about the Modesto taxi incident. Would a painter take a plane and go out to a job site? Maybe a painting contractor since it might be a very large job of many homes or it seems that it would be somebody higher up.  Also it seems to me since the contractor from Sacramento is said to have hired local workers and union workers in Goleta, yet the fact that the contractor was from Sacramento and we know GSK was operating in Sacramento, it seems likely to me that GSK came down with the contractor. It seems like he would not be a painter since they probably hired local painters, it seems more likely it was someone higher up with that company.