The Walking Dead

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Apr 9, 2016 1:31:04 GMT gamine said:

my SO claims it's Abraham, his reasoning : 1. doing Murdoc's "Eenie Meenie Miney Moe" count. 2. the psychology, were you Negan, Who would you take out? SO's answer: the biggest, buffest one. [imo misogynist view: clearly Michonne's the biggest, buffest with more inner strength and stability than any other (but Daryl) currently facing the bat.]

I was taken aback, recalling Al Capone's baseball bat scene (Brian De Palma.) Neither SO nor I have read the Walking Dead comics--and refuse to now. Although the show may not directly follow the comic series we take no chances. as we're different than most posters here, We Loved the Last Episode.
..............
Brian De Palma's Blow Out (1981) is my favorite movie of the suspense genre....I watch it ~once a year: looking for a realistic scream.

Fabulous points!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'd never even really thought of the Al Capone character DeNiro played! 

Thing with Negan's choosing in the comics was by chance, though it did cause for him to go back on his word. He did it to prove a point rather than incapacitate them, feeling more like breaking the stronger ones rather than kill them if that makes sense. While random and nonsensical tactically, it proved to devastate Rick more than anything else before he begins easing into submission. However, outside of Rick and Carl, he has no idea who any of the others are in relation to one another, save possibly for Glenn and Maggie. 

As far as the arc in the overall story has been I would be very disappointed if it was anyone outside of Daryl or Glenn. If Morgan or Carol had been in the line up then that would have been even more to bet on, though I see where they're going with them. Michonne and Maggie would be next as far as characters with the largest time span goes. If it was Abraham, who was supposed to have died in the previous episode, I would be upset more in that that was going to be where he was killed off after sparing him from his fate in the comics. Kind of like Hershel if that bite had killed him in S3. 

Abraham, Rosita and Eugene are new to the line up from the comics, as is Daryl who didn't exist in that medium. Aaron replaced Heath and if he died, that would be sooooo disappointing to -_- Killing a red shirt or character with a lesser time span would be more anticlimactic than any cliff hanger, at least imho

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clear this up for me we are not talking about these guys, right?

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Apr 9, 2016 9:20:04 GMT cerulean said:

Apr 8, 2016 3:54:08 GMT @murdoc said:

You pretty much nailed him c. He's basically everything the Governor wasn't as far as being a sociopath goes. He doesn't care what you think about him and he doesn't lie to his followers like the Governor did. None of that Jim Jones thing where it's one hand doesn't know what the other is doing. He is what he is and he is in fact extremely charismatic in doing this. It's all in his honesty and the delivery he does in fact produce to those who do not cross him. This doesn't mean that his followers are exempt from being extreme ass heads but he chooses to ignore it as long as it does not affect his standing...

Wrapping it up, Negan is a force of nature like none other who leads a band of those that make sense for a guy like him to lead. Going from a used car salesman to that, is something special and he knows it. If you think his character is insane, just you wait until you see the leader of the Kingdom, whose motorcross guys were seen with Morgan and Carol.

The guv didnt care what you thought about him either; he was all about keeping on the mask, which any psychopath is.  He also beheaded an old guy, so i don't get why Negan is considered more of a "badass." I hate the word "badass" like I hate the Negan character. It's always reserved for tasteless, classless, infantile characters who appeal to a lowbrow crowd. (Yeah i know that sounds elitist, but Its Always Sunny in Philadelphia is one of my most favorite shows; so can it.)
Negan appeals to the WWF crowd. He's an WWF type villain. 'OOOh, look at me! Look at what a badass I am! Watch me say stupid * that is in no way ironic! Or excessively use expletives to show you that i am so badaass!'
There's nothing smart, subtle or satisfying about salesmen, -or bikers, which are what these blue collar poseurs appear to be. Contrast these *s with what could have also been one-dimensional characters, the redneck brothers Murl and Durl (i know how to spell them; thats not how theyre said). I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he gets better, but everything right now smacks as artificial with Negan. There are hillbillies who act like Murl and Durl. Its believable that each is smart enough in their own pigheaded ways to learn from their mistakes, or to even have their own believable moral code.
Negan (and that other overacting idiot who played his lackey)is exactly the kind of blowhard * that would get his teeth knocked out immediately in prison. I dont like the actor, at all. He seems like the kind of dick who loves the sound of his own voice and mistakes shouting for intensity.
[Also, Rick said '*', so I dont know why he couldnt say '*', unless they have to pay 25,000 a pop, to use it, maybe.]

Now I said that I excused a lot of stuff away under the pretext that it follows comic book logic. Negan can fall under that universe; so let me explain. I meant a comic book that i would read. i wont read ones with lame characters like Negan, and so confronted with them, their flaws become irritating. The guv was a weirdo, but still consistent in that he was a psychopath who was only interested in being in power, and all other people were things in relation to him. Charismatic people are hard to write, because charisma is subtle, and subtly, it has been said, is hard for a tv audience to pick up on. SO they substitute spectacle for it, and then you get poorly written, lowest common denominator characters, like Negan, more often than not, and execrable writing, like the kind that came from his 10min 'Look at what a badass i am!' speech. Not even a 6th grader would think saying "pee pee pants city" was smart or funny, and yet they had him say it over and over and over, to the point where even I was getting second-hand embarrassment for everyone involved.
Someone called this character "honest" and it couldnt be further from the truth. First of all, he's most often described as a salesman (sometimes as a used car salesman), which is a profession in which honesty is a liability (the only profession noted as being less related to honesty, is lawyer). I also dont understand it when an amoral, violent character is shown to have one peccadillo, and that is that he hates one form of violence. Because its bullshit. They may not like to perform that violence based on whatever narcissistic reason; but they dont give a * if it happens to anyone besides them or the theirs. If a character like Negan who smashes the skulls of people while laughing and joking, says that they hate sexual violence, they are A) lying, and dont believe it; because B) they will say anything to manipulate people to their advantage. If Negan wants to win people over to his side, and wants to get rid of his sexual competition and win over a woman, that is exactly what he would do and say. That doesnt mean he has anything resembling decent morals. Its the adage that goes, When someone shows you who they are, believe it.

Here's the proof the guv was not only had a badder ass but was more consistent to a truly bad person:he knew Rick was the leader of the opposition and he was bent on destroying him. Ive never read the Art of War, but even I know that if you wanted to push that group into confusion and chaos and eventually win them over to your side, the first thing you would do is kill Rick. And you wouldnt make a spectacle out of it; youd walk over, bang, then calmly address the group. Not bash; bang. Then separate the survivors. You wouldnt humiliate them, taunt them, kill women , children or pregnant women and their husbands. You also wouldnt kill the weakest members of the group (Eugene). They obvs arent going to kill Rick, so then I would assume that they were going to take out the most physically intimidating 2nd; and in this case, from the opposition's perspective, it would be Abraham.
But who knows what theyre going to do, because theyve already done something as stupid as this. I dont sit around waiting to be the first person to crow about how a show has jumped the shark because as long as im still enjoying it  dont care, but that is the first thing that popped into mind while i sat through this terrible episode. I started watching this show 5 seasons in, when I was off work for a month. But if the next season starts up like it left off, I dont suspect Ill waste any more time on it.

Awesome points, especially in the WWF comparison. Love that lol. 

We'll have to agree to disagree for the most part, though I do admire your opinions

Also, when did Rick say *?

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Apr 9, 2016 18:32:39 GMT cerulean said:

Apr 9, 2016 10:23:30 GMT @murdoc said:

Awesome points, especially in the WWF comparison. Love that lol. 

We'll have to agree to disagree for the most part, though I do admire your opinions

Also, when did Rick say *?

Didnt he say of the Terminus people that they were '* with the wrong people'?  Or was I on too many drugs at the time and imagined that?
Either way, I choose to believe he did

LoL, it wasn't the drugs but it was supposed to be what was said

They replaced it with 'screwed', unless they haad another shot of it in the DVD/Bluray releases

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Apr 9, 2016 20:33:56 GMT cerulean said:

Apr 9, 2016 20:16:43 GMT @murdoc said:

LoL, it wasn't the drugs but it was supposed to be what was said

They replaced it with 'screwed', unless they haad another shot of it in the DVD/Bluray releases

I wasnt sure. I watched so much of this show, my dog's growl turned into the noise the zombies make; it was a pavlovian response.

Nice! Hadn't seen that before. Must have been on a special feature or something

I love this show completely still and last season was my favorite by far. 

Tonight is FEAR the walking dead night so I'll be quite happy ^.^

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Apr 11, 2016 1:04:12 GMT cerulean said:

I also want to say, that last POV shot at the end of the episode, imo, did not work. It probably works nicely in an arty comic book panel type way; especially if its a cliffhanger til the next book.

But tv is too fast-paced, emotion all up in your face, for that to be effective. I like to watch these characters live a hellish existence. I myself do not want to be teleported into it with a POV shot. And especially not teleported into the viewpoint of a person getting beaten to death in the head (look at what board you are on right now).

I must disagree, as I loved it completely and not just for it's comic book relation and not because I won money out of it. I won the money because I predicted the POV shot perfectly even though it wasn't even part of the comics, as that issue did a close up of the victim and Lucille. If I had to choose an episode that best mirrored the comics it would be my favorite episode of the series, S6E9: NO WAY OUT. The episode before that, the mid-season finale, was much like this finale but what it lead up to in the mid-season premiere with NO WAY OUT was incredible and it included everyone. Inside and outside of the comics, it was the best episode for me and because of how it was set up with a frustrating episode, I have faith that the season 7 premiere will be something special. Scott Gimple has been great to the show, even when the writers fall short. 

I prefer to watch the characters live too but I understand that violence is what it is. The show is violent and isn't going to change, so I dunno if you're going to like the things that are coming. 

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I enjoy the slower pace with Fear

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Apr 9, 2016 20:33:56 GMT cerulean said:

Apr 9, 2016 20:16:43 GMT @murdoc said:

LoL, it wasn't the drugs but it was supposed to be what was said

They replaced it with 'screwed', unless they haad another shot of it in the DVD/Bluray releases

I wasnt sure. I watched so much of this show, my dog's growl turned into the noise the zombies make; it was a pavlovian response.

I redact myself! That's a rarity in TWD, I will admit. So enjoy it

It turns out that this was this was the scene filmed but cable censored it. Turns out, this isn't uncommon in TWD, particularly in the first season. 

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Apr 12, 2016 4:24:36 GMT cerulean said:

Apr 11, 2016 9:45:31 GMT @murdoc said:

I redact myself! That's a rarity in TWD, I will admit. So enjoy it

It turns out that this was this was the scene filmed but cable censored it. Turns out, this isn't uncommon in TWD, particularly in the first season. 

I do enjoy it. All of Andrew Lincoln's (over)acting I chock up to the fact that Rick Grimes isnt wrapped so tightly. That's why it's hard for me to blame the character for 'losing his way.' Rick is a mostly delusional fellow; why punish an already crazy man for doing the only thing anyone would do to survive? I dont get the preoccupation people have with punishing tv characters. They set up a crooked world and then punish a character for behaving appropriately. They also set up false analogies when they say that Rick has turned into the Guv, or that Rick is just like Negan.  If you cant tell the difference between those characters, you have bigger issues than plain old nutbar Rick.

I rewatched the last episode and I enjoyed it more. And I admit, Negan said "peepee pants city" only once; it just felt like multiple times through secondhand embarrassment.
I still hate that last shot, where Abraham goes down.

While I love and admire Rick's resilience, he kinda bit off more than he could chew by taking on an enemy after being horribly under informed. He brought on them himself by killing all of the people in the compound, so this was all Negan making a point. Honestly, I do agree with your belief about Rick being compared to the Governor or Negan. If anyone, Shane was more comparable to them while Rick was more well rounded as an individual. Negan, a former used car salesman(not shitting you), was like the Governor who turned his life to power after slaving in a job they hated and their true nature flourished. 

I love tension in the show and lately, the survivors have been on top of each obstacle after the Governor's bullshit army attacked the prison. Both Woodbury and Martinez group were manipulated by him because he cared enough about them to lead them on and used them as long as they fulfilled his needs. I will say that the Governor did care what some thought of him and how far he'd go to affect their perception of him, particularly with Woodbury and Lily's family. Still, this "Jim Jones" leadership was effective in it's own respect, as it created numerous casualties. Terminus were chumps, the Claimers didn't give a damn but weren't ready for Rick's wrath and the only people killed by Wolves were Alexandrians. Negan and his Saviors to me are realistic in that they're all on the same level. No hidden agendas, just bad ass sociopaths and whipped survivors living the in the apocalypse . Like living in prison by choice and making it into survival of the fittest. People like that hate people like Rick, save for a few

Just wait until you meet the next survivors colony, if you want over the top. 

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Apr 12, 2016 4:43:11 GMT cerulean said:

Apr 11, 2016 2:09:09 GMT @murdoc said:

I enjoy the slower pace with Fear

I dont enjoy it more, but I dont dislike it. It seems to bother a lot of people.

The opening chords that played when the show name went onscreen,  really creeped me out, last year. They shouldnt have changed that.

I agree about the opening and I hope that was just something for the premiere. Still, I love the show and all of the characters, especially Strand. I enjoy the darker characters more than the straight-laced ones and he is a great fit. 

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Apr 15, 2016 3:07:21 GMT cerulean said:

Apr 12, 2016 5:08:15 GMT @murdoc said:

Just wait until you meet the next survivors colony, if you want over the top.

Anyone's better than Deanna and her brood.

Damn you can type

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Thomas Jane was the first choice for Rick. That is a tidbit I always found fascinating since Darabont was the original showrunner. Carol, Andrea, Morales and especially Dale were played by actors he worked with in the past.

[Mitchell]

Apr 20, 2016 7:13:02 GMT @murdoc said:

Thomas Jane was the first choice for Rick. That is a tidbit I always found fascinating since Darabont was the original showrunner. Carol, Andrea, Morales and especially Dale were played by actors he worked with in the past.

Thomas Jane was great in Stander but always seemed like a faux Aaron Eckhart.

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Apr 20, 2016 10:19:04 GMT Mitchell said:

Apr 20, 2016 7:13:02 GMT @murdoc said:

Thomas Jane was the first choice for Rick. That is a tidbit I always found fascinating since Darabont was the original showrunner. Carol, Andrea, Morales and especially Dale were played by actors he worked with in the past.

Thomas Jane was great in Stander but always seemed like a faux Aaron Eckhart.

He's a fantastic actor. Hell, he was a great Punisher stuck in a silly movie. 

Oh! And DEEP BLUE SEA was fun too