Evidence linking the Maggiore murders to EAR

[Deleted]

Sept 1, 2016 4:35:27 GMT @rocket5 said:

Aug 31, 2016 6:12:04 GMT @troubador222 said:

There is another possibility that occurred to me. Who's to say EAR was not also involved in the drug smuggling ring. Drug dealing attracts lots of people who commit other crimes. And him being zonked out on Coke or some other stimulate could explain a lot of things about his behavior at times and his "performance issues" during the actual rapes.

That's a good point. I'm wondering if ear was in the military and dishonorably discharged? I have a feeling that he was in the military at some point. It seems possible to me.

I have an older half brother who is 18 years older than me. He is a retired civil service worker who worked that career on Cherry Point Marine Base in NC. He was never in the military. All US Military bases have civilian workers on them. In some cases they can be as many as the military personnel I have been told. (As related by my brother. I have no idea about how it relates now as he has been retired since the 1980s.) With all the military bases around Sacramento, there had to have been a large population of civil service workers too.

 Which broadens the pool in my mind, wouldn't it be easy for a civilian worker to get a used car with that sticker with the parachute? Buy it from someone he knows on a base. This is speculation but it is a factor. Though a civilian worker could easily be a member of a drug ring run through a military base. And might be an important part if the person were local.

 Civilian workers on a military base could be under more or much less observation in those times depending on what job they did. Those jobs were all over from secretaries to CIA. My brother worked on jet aircraft equipment though his last few years, he worked as a senior inspector and went to a lot of military bases around the US to teach quality control. His home base was out of Cherry Point.

[trabuco]

Sept 1, 2016 4:35:27 GMT @rocket5 said:

Aug 31, 2016 6:12:04 GMT @troubador222 said:

There is another possibility that occurred to me. Who's to say EAR was not also involved in the drug smuggling ring. Drug dealing attracts lots of people who commit other crimes. And him being zonked out on Coke or some other stimulate could explain a lot of things about his behavior at times and his "performance issues" during the actual rapes.

That's a good point. I'm wondering if ear was in the military and dishonorably discharged? I have a feeling that he was in the military at some point. It seems possible to me.

He did tell one of his victims that he was kicked out of the military. If we went back through all of the cases and supposed everything he said was the truth and that everything he did was genuine and not a red herring, I wonder then what we would have?

[trabuco]

Sept 1, 2016 5:21:26 GMT @troubador222 said:

Sept 1, 2016 4:35:27 GMT @rocket5 said:

That's a good point. I'm wondering if ear was in the military and dishonorably discharged? I have a feeling that he was in the military at some point. It seems possible to me.

I have an older half brother who is 18 years older than me. He is a retired civil service worker who worked that career on Cherry Point Marine Base in NC. He was never in the military. All US Military bases have civilian workers on them. In some cases they can be as many as the military personnel I have been told. (As related by my brother. I have no idea about how it relates now as he has been retired since the 1980s.) With all the military bases around Sacramento, there had to have been a large population of civil service workers too.

 Which broadens the pool in my mind, wouldn't it be easy for a civilian worker to get a used car with that sticker with the parachute? Buy it from someone he knows on a base. This is speculation but it is a factor. Though a civilian worker could easily be a member of a drug ring run through a military base. And might be an important part if the person were local.

 Civilian workers on a military base could be under more or much less observation in those times depending on what job they did. Those jobs were all over from secretaries to CIA. My brother worked on jet aircraft equipment though his last few years, he worked as a senior inspector and went to a lot of military bases around the US to teach quality control. His home base was out of Cherry Point.

Maybe EAR didn't particularly care for the military but there is something that he believed was invaluable imo and it was access.

[Deleted]

I am thinking out loud on this stuff, Just what I am aware of. I hear possible military connections in everything I read about the case, but nothing about CSW connections.

[trabuco]

Sept 1, 2016 6:15:16 GMT @troubador222 said:

I am thinking out loud on this stuff, Just what I am aware of. I hear possible military connections in everything I read about the case, but nothing about CSW connections.

Would you happen to know anything about the Job Corp?

The differences or similarities between CSW and Job Corp?

[Drifter]

jj wrote:

Is the Mather drug smuggling considered public knowledge? Or Is it something that's still a bit of a secret to people outside of military/web sleuthing/le?

That's a good question, jj.

My understanding is that it was public knowledge back during the time it was happening. But at some point later, it became forgotten about. And now, I'm sure the Defense Department would just as soon it stay forgotten.

The Air Force completed an investigation of the Maggiore murders just a few months ago.  (We have a thread on it in General folder, probably page 2 or even 3 by now).  And the results of that official investigation have never been made public.  It's ... classified!

Quite a bit of information on the Mather drug issue is included in the old AETV threads, in the AETV folder.

Posters who lived in Sac, or other areas of California, during the late 70s could probably be more informative than me on answering the question of whether the drug smuggling was public knowledge.

Drifter

[biglebowskyoz]

Aug 31, 2016 16:17:56 GMT succotash said:

Aug 30, 2016 0:19:35 GMT biglebowskyoz said:

I sometimes think it was an assassination but then I think not because it was kind of sloppy. Especially for military people. If it was a pro hit then they did a terrible job getting spotted. I do however think LE would throw this in with the EAR as a cover up.

There are many roles in the military, many of them are not primarily combat roles and although they all do some basic combat training, this doesn't make them super-ninjas.

Agreed but they learn to be more organised and how to plain raids/hits which is 90% of the work

[biglebowskyoz]

Aug 31, 2016 10:06:01 GMT jh said:

Aug 31, 2016 5:11:34 GMT bikerider said:

I'll bet they are connected by touch DNA. Or, the cords are identical to ones used in another crime

I might be wrong, but I think that a LE personnel at the press conference in July or in an interview at that time as an answer to a question specifically said that the connection to the Maggiore couple was MO and not dna.

I was wondering about the mask seen in connection with the Maggiore murders. There seem to be a lot of confusion… Crompton said in an interview that it was just seen in the back pocket of the trousers of one of the suspects. But I have read elsewhere that a witness claimed to have seen one of the suspects wearing it during the chase. Can someone shed some light here? I guess much of the confusion stem from the fact that the witnesses seem to have been interviewed a number of times during a long period of time, also under hypnoses, and that they have changed important parts of their statements.

Just one last thing; I read somewhere that the shoelace was found by the house owner several days after the murders. Surely this can’t be right? I find it very strange that the police wouldn’t have performed a thorough canvass of the garden?

The gun was seen in the back pocket by 1 witness, maybe ur confusing the two stories. Someone also said they saw a person running wearing a mask but haven't heard someone saw a person with a mask in their back pocket

[jh]

Sept 1, 2016 7:10:15 GMT biglebowskyoz said:

Aug 31, 2016 10:06:01 GMT jh said:

I might be wrong, but I think that a LE personnel at the press conference in July or in an interview at that time as an answer to a question specifically said that the connection to the Maggiore couple was MO and not dna.

I was wondering about the mask seen in connection with the Maggiore murders. There seem to be a lot of confusion… Crompton said in an interview that it was just seen in the back pocket of the trousers of one of the suspects. But I have read elsewhere that a witness claimed to have seen one of the suspects wearing it during the chase. Can someone shed some light here? I guess much of the confusion stem from the fact that the witnesses seem to have been interviewed a number of times during a long period of time, also under hypnoses, and that they have changed important parts of their statements.

Just one last thing; I read somewhere that the shoelace was found by the house owner several days after the murders. Surely this can’t be right? I find it very strange that the police wouldn’t have performed a thorough canvass of the garden?

The gun was seen in the back pocket by 1 witness, maybe ur confusing the two stories. Someone also said they saw a person running wearing a mask but haven't heard someone saw a person with a mask in their back pocket

Thanks for your reply! In the interview Crompton comments the speculation that EAR was involved in the murders and I'm pretty sure he say something in the line of "some think it was EAR because of MO, for example one witness claimed to have seen a ski mask in the backpocket of one the suspects or the murderer".

[biglebowskyoz]

Shrug you hear so much conflicting evidence it's hard to keep up. I sometimes think if this was a cover up for Mather afb misinformation like this would do the trick. It just shocks me that someone can shoot a couple with all those witnesses and not get caught.

[cityofchill]

From all I have read about what happened, it seems to me that if the Maggiore's dog hadn't gotten away from them and if they didn't end up in that back yard chasing it, they would probably be alive.

I used to give some credence to the Mather AFB smuggling angle, but they were not accosted out in the middle of the street — they met their killier in a back yard when they went after their dog. If it was a planned hit, how did the murderer(s) know the dog would get away and end up in that backyard? They wouldn't, of course. Sounds to me like a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

As far as Bill's question about the witness who saw a man in a ski mask chase them down, I believe that detail comes from Shelby's book. If I'm not mistaken, it was a young boy who witnessed it from a window in his home.

The possible stalking of Kate Maggiore is also very interesting. It may be that EAR was stalking the neighborhood, looking for victims, and she was one of his targets. We know that when he stalked a neighborhood, he scouted multiple homes and multiple possible victims. If she hadn't been murdered that night, it is possible she and her husband may have been future EAR victims. They may have interrupted him as he was casing the home of another potential victim in the same area.

[westcoastcanuck]

Sept 1, 2016 9:52:43 GMT cityofchill said:

From all I have read about what happened, it seems to me that if the Maggiore's dog hadn't gotten away from them and if they didn't end up in that back yard chasing it, they would probably be alive.

I used to give some credence to the Mather AFB smuggling angle, but they were not accosted out in the middle of the street — they met their killier in a back yard when they went after their dog. If it was a planned hit, how did the murderer(s) know the dog would get away and end up in that backyard? They wouldn't, of course. Sounds to me like a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

As far as Bill's question about the witness who saw a man in a ski mask chase them down, I believe that detail comes from Shelby's book. If I'm not mistaken, it was a young boy who witnessed it from a window in his home.

The possible stalking of Kate Maggiore is also very interesting. It may be that EAR was stalking the neighborhood, looking for victims, and she was one of his targets. We know that when he stalked a neighborhood, he scouted multiple homes and multiple possible victims. If she hadn't been murdered that night, it is possible she and her husband may have been future EAR victims. They may have interrupted him as he was casing the home of another potential victim in the same area.

This is kind of where my thinking is on this.  It's not hard for me to imagine a scenario in which they happen upon this guy who looked to be somewhere he shouldn't have been and generally meeting the description of EAR (who everyone would have been well aware of) and EAR feeling like he was backed into a corner.  

[Deleted]

If the FBI map route/time animation is correct then there may have been interaction with the assailants before the actual attack, the Maggiores seemed to deviate from normal route / double back. Though the timeline is put together from multiple eye witness, is subject to some variance.

Much of the contents of Shelby's book go quite well with a pinch of salt.

[Deleted]

Where. Was. The. Bindings. Located. In. Relation. To. The. Crime. Scene.

Seriously though, I'm hearing all kinds of things about that and the possibility they were secured by a diamond knot? Is that a serious fact because I'd never heard of that.

[Deleted]

Sept 1, 2016 19:12:07 GMT @murdoc said:

Where. Was. The. Bindings. Located. In. Relation. To. The. Crime. Scene.

Seriously though, I'm hearing all kinds of things about that and the possibility they were secured by a diamond knot? Is that a serious fact because I'd never heard of that.

The lace was reportedly on the lawn not on an obvious path for the killer to take in pursuit of Brian or returning to Kate after Brian fell.
Some reports say it was tied in a double loop like handcuffs, but the LE photo of the single shoelace showed a single loop, no diamond knot. I have a feeling that this photograph is not the actual lace, but a reconstruction.