EAR Map - A New Theory

[boinga]

Mar 25, 2018 10:55:00 GMT Tom Box said:

Hi boinga,
Thank you for the critique, appreciate your input and no offense taken to any comments that don’t support my theory.
I take your point about the difference in scale of the map and Laguna West. My theory has developed to the point where I believe the left side of the map with the commercial buildings and perhaps the lake and watercourse, were done by the POI’s father who was a civil engineer and the rest was done by the POI who might have been around 13 at the time if it was drawn just after he was in 6th grade. I can only surmise that he was helping with homework or giving him a lesson in town planning? For that reason I tend to only look at the broad picture of the shape of the creek and lake, the general layout of the roads, the “North Pointer” pointing in the correct direction and also the fact that the Laguna West area itself was planned and developed as a whole by a single developer. I think the last point sets this area apart from all other areas that have been considered.

The point you make about the drainage culvert fits in with my theory that an engineer drew that part of the map however unlike Paul Holes I believe the water course runs from right to left with two feeder creeks on the right side of the lake then the water flows to the left around the commercial building. (I do not believe the lake is a retention basin). This aligns with my Laguna West theory that the creek would eventually run into the Sacramento River to the West of the I5 Freeway.
The X that appears in the center of the lake is actually bleeding through from the back of the map, it is the large cross made by the letter “t” in “punishment”. Credit to saund for pointing this out some time ago. You can see it here.
There are many points of contention over the map, but I can say that by following the Laguna West theory I have identified an individual that is a very good prospect of being EAR and like you, hope it pans out soon otherwise I'm back to the drawing board. t0mb0x.wordpress.com/evolving-theory/


Thanks!
I was reading the direction of the water flow differently of course, but if the map was some sort of rough plan or teaching exercise it could go either way. It could go either way in real life, too, I suppose. My only comment about that would be, an engineer would think twice about having a real lake drain into that "U turn around a commercial building" at the end, so to speak. That would be a real bottleneck for the water in a big storm, especially in a 25 or 50 year storm event. You could engineer around that with a really big culvert under the road, but in my neck of the woods, (New Hampshire..where we get a lot of snow melt and spring rains) that would be far less than ideal. 
Honestly, not sure I read the "north arrow"like you do....I see it as one of two house profiles (again, a developer just spitballin') but you could be right.
thank you for pointing out the X bleeding through. I am still learning on this board!
I read your evolving theory link and will keep my fingers crossed.

[dogfock]

any updates?

[orly57]

Apr 8, 2018 13:31:07 GMT Tom Box said:

Apr 8, 2018 13:19:58 GMT dogfock said:

any updates?

Getting to the stage where I've said as much as I can and now hopefully someone in LE checks the guys DNA and rules him in or out.

I can't wait to see the reward paid out in Australian dollars!!!!! I know this isn't why you do it, but man I hope you are right.

[brawlpups]

Here is a historical topo of the feature. Originally no pond.
The dotted line is the symbol for intermittent streams. No intermittent pond.
The lines are elevelation.

[perceptor]

Apr 8, 2018 13:31:07 GMT Tom Box said:

Apr 8, 2018 13:19:58 GMT dogfock said:

any updates?

Getting to the stage where I've said as much as I can and now hopefully someone in LE checks the guys DNA and rules him in or out.

Do you feel comfortable providing his general physical description? Height, hair color?

[Call Me Al]

I read boinga's comments and I think he makes very good points, and I would like to try to add a little more perspective if I may. I have worked for and with civil engineers for over forty years, mostly in the geotechnical area. These kinds of drawings are common to civil engineers and a number of things could be going on here. First of all, nobody drew this with prowling in mind--it was made with profit in mind. Probably a developer or an engineer gave it to another engineer as part of a request for a proposal to do some kind of work. It could be for surveying or for drainage or for testing. For example, a geotechnical company, like the one I work for, will often be asked to do a proposal to do a soils exploration. A possible scenario here would be that the engineer sends out a subordinate to check the site to see what kind of drill equipment will be needed to take soil samples. If the site is heavily wooded clearing might be necessary. Can you drive around the wet areas? You might even be required to do some type of percolation or permeability tests in the retention pond areas. The faint circle to the left, as boinga pointed out, might be an alternative spot for the pond. You need to know all of this to accurately estimate a cost for your services. I'm not saying this is what happened, but I think it is something along these lines. Nobody draws something like this for fun.

If the rapist/killer didn't drop these papers, we are all wasting our time. But if he did then it is worth it to try to figure out who drew this map and see if that individual can be located. There is a chance they might remember who they gave it to, and why. The man who started the company I work for, a master's level engineer, now retired, could recall something like this years later. "Yes, so-and-so asked us to do that proposal, but they gave the job to someone else."  I've seen him do it.

I doubt the rapist stole that stuff, if he did in fact drop it. My intuition is that someone gave that drawing to him to do some task and he dropped it by accident. Or maybe he held onto it afterward because he had something written on there that he wanted to remember. Maybe someone's name or street for future stalking.

Which brings me to the point I want to make. I am no detective but if I were confident that this criminal had something to do with subdivision construction, I would be trying to talk to people who had worked in the related professions at that time and in the places that he would have likely worked. Specifically, I would want to talk to retired civil engineers, construction superintendents, and inspectors, who might be the best source of all because they know all of the engineers, contractors and subcontractors. There are some strange characters in the construction business and these old fellows have some interesting stories to tell. Believe it or not, but not everyone is paying attention to this story even with the recent media surge. There might be someone out there who just might know something of interest, but nobody has ever asked.

I don't know if any of this helps, but it can't hurt.

Al

[justasking]

Apr 9, 2018 17:55:43 GMT Call Me Al said:

I read boinga's comments and I think he makes very good points, and I would like to try to add a little more perspective if I may. I have worked for and with civil engineers for over forty years, mostly in the geotechnical area. These kinds of drawings are common to civil engineers and a number of things could be going on here. First of all, nobody drew this with prowling in mind--it was made with profit in mind. Probably a developer or an engineer gave it to another engineer as part of a request for a proposal to do some kind of work. It could be for surveying or for drainage or for testing. For example, a geotechnical company, like the one I work for, will often be asked to do a proposal to do a soils exploration. A possible scenario here would be that the engineer sends out a subordinate to check the site to see what kind of drill equipment will be needed to take soil samples. If the site is heavily wooded clearing might be necessary. Can you drive around the wet areas? You might even be required to do some type of percolation or permeability tests in the retention pond areas. The faint circle to the left, as boinga pointed out, might be an alternative spot for the pond. You need to know all of this to accurately estimate a cost for your services. I'm not saying this is what happened, but I think it is something along these lines. Nobody draws something like this for fun.

If the rapist/killer didn't drop these papers, we are all wasting our time. But if he did then it is worth it to try to figure out who drew this map and see if that individual can be located. There is a chance they might remember who they gave it to, and why. The man who started the company I work for, a master's level engineer, now retired, could recall something like this years later. "Yes, so-and-so asked us to do that proposal, but they gave the job to someone else."  I've seen him do it.

I doubt the rapist stole that stuff, if he did in fact drop it. My intuition is that someone gave that drawing to him to do some task and he dropped it by accident. Or maybe he held onto it afterward because he had something written on there that he wanted to remember. Maybe someone's name or street for future stalking.

Which brings me to the point I want to make. I am no detective but if I were confident that this criminal had something to do with subdivision construction, I would be trying to talk to people who had worked in the related professions at that time and in the places that he would have likely worked. Specifically, I would want to talk to retired civil engineers, construction superintendents, and inspectors, who might be the best source of all because they know all of the engineers, contractors and subcontractors. There are some strange characters in the construction business and these old fellows have some interesting stories to tell. Believe it or not, but not everyone is paying attention to this story even with the recent media surge. There might be someone out there who just might know something of interest, but nobody has ever asked.

I don't know if any of this helps, but it can't hurt.

Al

That's some good info. Is there anything you could make of the word (that might be) 'bulge' in this context and from that perspective? 


Attachment Deleted

[Call Me Al]

Apr 9, 2018 19:02:16 GMT justasking said:

Apr 9, 2018 17:55:43 GMT Call Me Al said:

I read boinga's comments and I think he makes very good points, and I would like to try to add a little more perspective if I may. I have worked for and with civil engineers for over forty years, mostly in the geotechnical area. These kinds of drawings are common to civil engineers and a number of things could be going on here. First of all, nobody drew this with prowling in mind--it was made with profit in mind. Probably a developer or an engineer gave it to another engineer as part of a request for a proposal to do some kind of work. It could be for surveying or for drainage or for testing. For example, a geotechnical company, like the one I work for, will often be asked to do a proposal to do a soils exploration. A possible scenario here would be that the engineer sends out a subordinate to check the site to see what kind of drill equipment will be needed to take soil samples. If the site is heavily wooded clearing might be necessary. Can you drive around the wet areas? You might even be required to do some type of percolation or permeability tests in the retention pond areas. The faint circle to the left, as boinga pointed out, might be an alternative spot for the pond. You need to know all of this to accurately estimate a cost for your services. I'm not saying this is what happened, but I think it is something along these lines. Nobody draws something like this for fun.

If the rapist/killer didn't drop these papers, we are all wasting our time. But if he did then it is worth it to try to figure out who drew this map and see if that individual can be located. There is a chance they might remember who they gave it to, and why. The man who started the company I work for, a master's level engineer, now retired, could recall something like this years later. "Yes, so-and-so asked us to do that proposal, but they gave the job to someone else."  I've seen him do it.

I doubt the rapist stole that stuff, if he did in fact drop it. My intuition is that someone gave that drawing to him to do some task and he dropped it by accident. Or maybe he held onto it afterward because he had something written on there that he wanted to remember. Maybe someone's name or street for future stalking.

Which brings me to the point I want to make. I am no detective but if I were confident that this criminal had something to do with subdivision construction, I would be trying to talk to people who had worked in the related professions at that time and in the places that he would have likely worked. Specifically, I would want to talk to retired civil engineers, construction superintendents, and inspectors, who might be the best source of all because they know all of the engineers, contractors and subcontractors. There are some strange characters in the construction business and these old fellows have some interesting stories to tell. Believe it or not, but not everyone is paying attention to this story even with the recent media surge. There might be someone out there who just might know something of interest, but nobody has ever asked.

I don't know if any of this helps, but it can't hurt.

Al

That's some good info. Is there anything you could make of the word (that might be) 'bulge' in this context and from that perspective? 

I have been trying to blow that up so I can see it better, but I cannot tell what that is. It doesn't look like "bulge" to me. The first letter actually looks like more like a "D" or a "G."  My guess is that it is an abbreviation of something. Does anyone have a guess about the other word under the other "Lake" above that? That looks like "slope" only the second letter looks like a "p." Again, I think these might be abbreviations. Given that thre 'P" in Punishment is backward, maybe there is some dyslexia going on here, also.

I think the best bet is to try to imagine what the words might be then try to match abbreviations. Slope is a word often associated with ponds and dikes, but I don't know about a bulge in a lake. Could be "drain" as in a weir drain, which is a pipe or something to maintain a constant water level. I will have to think more about it.

[justasking]

Apr 9, 2018 19:40:18 GMT Call Me Al said:

Apr 9, 2018 19:02:16 GMT justasking said:

That's some good info. Is there anything you could make of the word (that might be) 'bulge' in this context and from that perspective? 

I have been trying to blow that up so I can see it better, but I cannot tell what that is. It doesn't look like "bulge" to me. The first letter actually looks like more like a "D" or a "G."  My guess is that it is an abbreviation of something. Does anyone have a guess about the other word under the other "Lake" above that? That looks like "slope" only the second letter looks like a "p." Again, I think these might be abbreviations. Given that thre 'P" in Punishment is backward, maybe there is some dyslexia going on here, also.

I think the best bet is to try to imagine what the words might be then try to match abbreviations. Slope is a word often associated with ponds and dikes, but I don't know about a bulge in a lake. Could be "drain" as in a weir drain, which is a pipe or something to maintain a constant water level. I will have to think more about it.

But there are bulges (like for example the alleged "Palmdale bulge" in 1979), and I have speculated that if the word was indeed 'bulge' (of course, not much is definite with his handwriting), it could have been some kind of a consideration about the prospect of a nearby bulge affecting the body of water that's depicted on the map. Like if it would flood or something like that.

I'm not sure if the lower "lake" (in more of a uppercase lettering) even does say "lake", since it seems to be some kind of a mix of uppercase and lowercase, and there could possibly be some symbols too which are just taken to be letters because it resembles the already mentioned "lake" so much. I was thinking it could have marked Lagrangian function with "Lak" and something, in relation to some flow measurements etc., but I really don't understand the subject matter.

But this may be offtopic, sorry about that.

[Call Me Al]

Excuse me for not quoting you here, justasking, because that gets cumbersome for others trying to follow this, and we want others to chime in if they see something we might have missed.

The possibilities you raise are interesting because this might involve geologists or hydro-geologists, and it might have to do with environmental issues. I am not as familiar with that area. And I am in a totally different part of the country, so there would be things specific to that area which would not occur in the Southeast where I live. This could be part of a wetlands delineation or involve water sampling. Exactly what these "lake" words are is not as important as who wrote them, unless you can make out a proper name leading to a definite location. 

This is frustrating because I feel like this map should be shown to as many people as possible over the age of sixty who might have worked in any field related to subdivision development in California.  I know it sounds like a monumental task, but the victims deserve the effort. But if one starts in the right place it might not be as daunting as it sounds. For example, an article about this case in the right professional publications might get some attention. An article about a serial killer in an engineering magazine is bound to be a first. Put a picture of that map in there and I bet you would get some pretty interesting feedback.

I think the best approach is to assume EAR dropped that map, but he did not make it. If either he made it or he has nothing to do with it at all, then the worst that can happen is nothing. If (and this is what we hope) the drawing was given to him by someone else, and that someone else is not protecting him, they might see it and recognize it.  Then we can possibly tie someone to the map and ultimately to the crimes. It's a long shot. But nothing has worked so far, so it's time to try something new.

I know some people believe they have figured out what is depicted in the map, but then someone else disputes it. We have the picture, we need to find the artist. The rapists' name is not written on the map, buy the map maker knows it.

My goal is to encourage people to try anything and everything legal to catch this bastard.

[bd]

Apr 9, 2018 21:29:35 GMT Call Me Al said:

This is frustrating because I feel like this map should be shown to as many people as possible over the age of sixty who might have worked in any field related to subdivision development in California.  I know it sounds like a monumental task, but the victims deserve the effort. But if one starts in the right place it might not be as daunting as it sounds. For example, an article about this case in the right professional publications might get some attention. An article about a serial killer in an engineering magazine is bound to be a first. Put a picture of that map in there and I bet you would get some pretty interesting feedback.

I think the best approach is to assume EAR dropped that map, but he did not make it. If either he made it or he has nothing to do with it at all, then the worst that can happen is nothing. If (and this is what we hope) the drawing was given to him by someone else, and that someone else is not protecting him, they might see it and recognize it.  Then we can possibly tie someone to the map and ultimately to the crimes. It's a long shot. But nothing has worked so far, so it's time to try something new.

I know some people believe they have figured out what is depicted in the map, but then someone else disputes it. We have the picture, we need to find the artist. The rapists' name is not written on the map, buy the map maker knows it.

That just makes too GD much sense.

[bd]

Apr 9, 2018 19:40:18 GMT Call Me Al said:

Apr 9, 2018 19:02:16 GMT justasking said:

That's some good info. Is there anything you could make of the word (that might be) 'bulge' in this context and from that perspective? 

I have been trying to blow that up so I can see it better, but I cannot tell what that is. It doesn't look like "bulge" to me. The first letter actually looks like more like a "D" or a "G."  My guess is that it is an abbreviation of something. Does anyone have a guess about the other word under the other "Lake" above that? That looks like "slope" only the second letter looks like a "p." Again, I think these might be abbreviations. Given that thre 'P" in Punishment is backward, maybe there is some dyslexia going on here, also.

I think the best bet is to try to imagine what the words might be then try to match abbreviations. Slope is a word often associated with ponds and dikes, but I don't know about a bulge in a lake. Could be "drain" as in a weir drain, which is a pipe or something to maintain a constant water level. I will have to think more about it.

I think the first (upper) 2 words are Lobe and pipe. The third word could be an abbreviation. The fourth word could be size. The last (lower) 2 words could be associated to the 2 tick marks to their right. A culvert maybe? I posted 2 enhanced enlargements on another thread. Did not want to keep stepping on the OP’s thread. 

[Call Me Al]

Apr 10, 2018 2:41:58 GMT bd said:

Apr 9, 2018 19:40:18 GMT Call Me Al said:

I have been trying to blow that up so I can see it better, but I cannot tell what that is. It doesn't look like "bulge" to me. The first letter actually looks like more like a "D" or a "G."  My guess is that it is an abbreviation of something. Does anyone have a guess about the other word under the other "Lake" above that? That looks like "slope" only the second letter looks like a "p." Again, I think these might be abbreviations. Given that thre 'P" in Punishment is backward, maybe there is some dyslexia going on here, also.

I think the best bet is to try to imagine what the words might be then try to match abbreviations. Slope is a word often associated with ponds and dikes, but I don't know about a bulge in a lake. Could be "drain" as in a weir drain, which is a pipe or something to maintain a constant water level. I will have to think more about it.

I think the first (upper) 2 words are Lobe and pipe. The third word could be an abbreviation. The fourth word could be size. The last (lower) 2 words could be associated to the 2 tick marks to their right. A culvert maybe? I posted 2 enhanced enlargements on another thread. Did not want to keep stepping on the OP’s thread. 

Hi, bd. I found your enlargements. Much clearer. Thanks. I agree that the middle word looks like "pipe," except it looks like there is an "s" at the beginning. And the sets of parallel lines look to be delineating a pipe path and/or some kind of structure. Maybe a drain in the middle of the lake to prevent overflow. I think the lower word that justasking reads as 'bulge" looks to me like it could be the abbreviation for "drawings" or "Dwgs." The word to the left looks like uppercase "LAKE" underlined as if it is a label written by someone else or at a different time.  And if the middle word is "pipe" then it confirms what my gut tells me that these are probably just construction notes. I don't know about the word that looks like "lobe." I still think it is "lake" in cursive. I read this as "Lake _pipe Dwgs."  I wouldn't be surprised if I am wrong, though.

Sorry to bore everyone. I like puzzles.

[bd]

Al,
I think the "s" in front of pipe is just a symbol. Isn't lobe a type of pump? Dwgs looks good. The L in LAKE I am not sure about. The short leg and arm in the K i think are bleed fom the back. But, still could be a refrence to another set of drawings, like you say.

[Call Me Al]

Apr 10, 2018 15:24:29 GMT bd said:

Al,
I think the "s" in front of pipe is just a symbol. Isn't lobe a type of pump? Dwgs looks good. The L in LAKE I am not sure about. The short leg and arm in the K i think are bleed fom the back. But, still could be a refrence to another set of drawings, like you say.

This is intriguing stuff for sure. I don't know if it is possible, but I am thinking about approaching the editors of Civil Engineering magazine and seeing if they would be interested in doing a story about this map.