GSK Map

[newbienew]

Aug 18, 2016 19:18:37 GMT intuitiva said:

Aug 18, 2016 18:53:17 GMT newbienew said:

I believe the Danville interpretation of the map. Credit to Sycamore or who ever discovered it.

www.google.com/maps/place/210+Remington+Loop,+Danville,+CA+94526/@37.81171,-122.0036297,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x808f8cb053691685:0xd65ed6fad2fd3e18!8m2!3d37.81171!4d-122.001441

Horizontal and vertical flip the EAR map and it matches very well.

EAR dropped Map in danville,ca

Person who drew map expected to be able to read it.

This indicates He could read all those sentences with the letters mixed up like this

3.bp.blogspot.com/-7YYTINMtjCo/VZ4Wn5Z3RII/AAAAAAAAAA4/BaxDC6S2SI0/s1600/422430_10150654966476882_117961201881_11199510_1107463429_n.jpg

image.slidesharecdn.com/luzrello-phdthesisslides-dyswebxia-140709124126-phpapp01/95/luz-rello-phd-thesis-presentation-dyswebxia-a-text-accessibility-model-for-people-with-dyslexia-24-638.jpg?cb=1406007379

And may indicate he had dyslexia or exceptional spacial manipulation abilities.

New, I'm not sure if I'm following you on the jump from making a map to dyslexia...could you explain this a bit further?

Dyslexics have a problem in the wiring of their brains related to sequencing of visual information.

When they are young they "learn" a way around this.

This "learning" makes them better at dealing with visual information that is jumbled or transformed than normal.

Essentially all dyslexics can read the two links I sent you as fast as reading normal english.  ok maybe 1/2 speed but fast enough that they could read the newspaper completely comprised of words scrambled like that every day and not have a problem with it.

This also applies to reading text upside down or backwards or upside down and backwards.

Many people are completely unable to do that at anything like normal speed.

Reading a map that is flipped in two axis is probably not something trivial for most dyslexics but to read a map flipped in two axis requires a specific way of manipulating the visual information on a "hardware" level in the brain.  Dyslexics already have this built in because they had to do it to learn to read.

Ambidextrous have a similar version of this in learning to write with both hands or backwards.

Anyone can learn to do it.

But it may take months of solid effort.

Dyslexics who can read have already put in the effort.

[woofytreats]

I think it might help if Sycamore can provide a little more orientation than just a topographical map and a Google map. Perhaps you can define what is what in relation to the map or provide some sense of how literal you're looking at the map. The attack took place on the other side of the freeway from what I know as the Sycamore Square and Livery shopping areas. The map was found on that side of the freeway near Liberta Ct. where the attack took place. Sycamore Valley Rd. is about a mile from my understanding of where the papers were found but I don't believe they were found on Sycamore as you seem to infer above. Then again, I don't know what "that map was found in this street" means and how that ties in.

Rather than having somebody prove you wrong, it might be better to get a more succinct view including street names, references to things changed since December of'78, etc. that will make your case. Typically, if someone has to flip and rotate a map or image, there might be some interpretation there if it needs to be matched up or otherwise interpreted to what was there 38 years ago.

[albion]

Aug 16, 2016 13:31:43 GMT sycamore said:

Sorry to to be so persistent ... But this is the map area that you seek .. Prove it wrong .. I think it may be important ..cheers

I dont mean to disregard Woofy's sound advice. So just my two cents.

First I see that the topography is wrong with this location. The drawn map has a body of water in the middle, so that would be a low spot comparative to what is upstream and to the sides, this location wouldnt be able to accommodate that lake with out a great deal of earth moving. Second, imo, the hand drawn map has the water flowing away from the shopping center, this Danville location would be the opposite.

I dont think the map is a representation of this location as built. And I dont think a student would go through the trouble of designing a map that completely disregards the topography to this degree. I believe the idea would have been to design a community that incorporates commercial and residential that fits in with the geography as is, with as little earth moving as possible. And if it was an actual development proposal, I dont think the State of CA would ever have approved it. Imo.

[newbienew]

Take the EAR map make a .jpg or something you can edit.
Flip it horizontally Tools-Flip Horizontal
Flip it Vertically Tools-Flip Vertically

Now its a virtual 1 to 1 representation.

Would be interesting to see an overlay.


The punishment house is on "town and country Dr,danville,ca"
The loop is Remington loop
The fire road is shown coming off Remington loop and would have allowed access the way he drew it even though it wasn't a "road"

Daniville town and country shopping center is the commercial complex
680 is the freeway




The map shows the coldesacs that are on town and country instead on highland drive. With town and country being a long straight road with a coldesack which isn't how it was built.

Instead The coldesacks are on town and country and not on highland drive.

The body of "water" is between town and country and highland drive.

Morris Ranch road doesn't complete the 2nd loop (middle ) like in the drawing but if it did this would match.
There is a long coldesac missing between it and 680.


What is interesting is that the area was developed between 1979 and 1968.

The "water" is completely man made and was not there in 1968 from the arial pic.

Its not PERFECT PERFECT PERFECT but it is a great match and 1-2 miles from where the map was found.


Also of note it appears EAR was TOLD to target the house 3 from the bend because both the target and the erased are 3 houses away from the bend.

If he had personally gone there first you would think he wouldn't have mixed up the side of the road.

Or he changed targets for some reason.

[sycamore]

Usually I would not throw a challenge out to prove wrong.. Sorry.. I did it to try to win attention and create dialogue on this location. I understand the location is not perfect in many respects but it is very likely its the place as I have studied it for a while.. some parts need "stretching."

It may have been drawn as a prelude to the areas full completion as a suburb. Where the houses have been erased they might have been turned into mini culdesacs, adding in another four or five houses.   This area seems quite hilly when driving in GOOGLE mode, which makes it harder for orientation. Small challenge for anyone is to draw your own suburb.. very difficult if you have not seen an aerial shot or google map and your suburb is not a square grid layout but angled with loops and bends.

I'm a bit tied up at the moment and will discuss further when I get time.. please keep an open mind to this location..
Cheers
Wishing you all the best in discovering who this scum bag is. 

 

[sycamore]

All I have done is orientate the google map from a north aspect to a south aspect
no inverting or flipping.
whoever drew the map has drawn it from a southerly aspect
the same can be achieved by orientating the "ear map" 180 but we are used to it in this format.

 

[sycamore]

Aug 18, 2016 21:18:04 GMT woofytreats said:

I think it might help if Sycamore can provide a little more orientation than just a topographical map and a Google map. Perhaps you can define what is what in relation to the map or provide some sense of how literal you're looking at the map. The attack took place on the other side of the freeway from what I know as the Sycamore Square and Livery shopping areas. The map was found on that side of the freeway near Liberta Ct. where the attack took place. Sycamore Valley Rd. is about a mile from my understanding of where the papers were found but I don't believe they were found on Sycamore as you seem to infer above. Then again, I don't know what "that map was found in this street" means and how that ties in.

Rather than having somebody prove you wrong, it might be better to get a more succinct view including street names, references to things changed since December of'78, etc. that will make your case. Typically, if someone has to flip and rotate a map or image, there might be some interpretation there if it needs to be matched up or otherwise interpreted to what was there 38 years ago.

I'm simply looking at and treating both maps from a southerly aspect point. Yes the street that it was found in was near Sycamore valley Rd at the other end. maybe I have led myself to believe that. I don't think anyone has a pin point accurate position. any ways near enough.. what I am saying is that its a very close match within a mile or two of where it was found, and near enough to the same road that runs all the way through...
my "prove me wrong" is the wrong method of inducement but I was not getting any response.. sorry about that chief.. any response is a good one.. if its not the spot I move on ..but its quacking a lot.. 

[sycamore]

Aug 18, 2016 22:08:31 GMT albion said:

Aug 16, 2016 13:31:43 GMT sycamore said:

Sorry to to be so persistent ... But this is the map area that you seek .. Prove it wrong .. I think it may be important ..cheers

I dont mean to disregard Woofy's sound advice. So just my two cents.

First I see that the topography is wrong with this location. The drawn map has a body of water in the middle, so that would be a low spot comparative to what is upstream and to the sides, this location wouldnt be able to accommodate that lake with out a great deal of earth moving. Second, imo, the hand drawn map has the water flowing away from the shopping center, this Danville location would be the opposite.

I dont think the map is a representation of this location as built. And I dont think a student would go through the trouble of designing a map that completely disregards the topography to this degree. I believe the idea would have been to design a community that incorporates commercial and residential that fits in with the geography as is, with as little earth moving as possible. And if it was an actual development proposal, I dont think the State of CA would ever have approved it. Imo.

 Hi Albion not sure why you think that water runs from shopping centre out to the pond on the ear map.. I think the opposite.. does anyone else have an opinion.. 
The location where the current reservoir is on the topo maps and the old 60s 70s maps was a low catchment area. coming from the hills.

[sycamore]

that's ok newbienew.. your still my only friend on this topic. LOL

[Any of N]

Aug 19, 2016 3:42:55 GMT sycamore said:

Aug 18, 2016 21:18:04 GMT woofytreats said:

I think it might help if Sycamore can provide a little more orientation than just a topographical map and a Google map. Perhaps you can define what is what in relation to the map or provide some sense of how literal you're looking at the map. The attack took place on the other side of the freeway from what I know as the Sycamore Square and Livery shopping areas. The map was found on that side of the freeway near Liberta Ct. where the attack took place. Sycamore Valley Rd. is about a mile from my understanding of where the papers were found but I don't believe they were found on Sycamore as you seem to infer above. Then again, I don't know what "that map was found in this street" means and how that ties in.

Rather than having somebody prove you wrong, it might be better to get a more succinct view including street names, references to things changed since December of'78, etc. that will make your case. Typically, if someone has to flip and rotate a map or image, there might be some interpretation there if it needs to be matched up or otherwise interpreted to what was there 38 years ago.

I'm simply looking at and treating both maps from a southerly aspect point. Yes the street that it was found in was near Sycamore valley Rd at the other end. maybe I have led myself to believe that. I don't think anyone has a pin point accurate position. any ways near enough.. what I am saying is that its a very close match within a mile or two of where it was found, and near enough to the same road that runs all the way through...
my "prove me wrong" is the wrong method of inducement but I was not getting any response.. sorry about that chief.. any response is a good one.. if its not the spot I move on ..but its quacking a lot..

Sycamore, here's my honest opinion. When I examine the real map with South on top, I see three elements in generally the correct relative positions. That would be (1) the shopping center, (2) the highway ramp, and (3) the looping thoroughfare, i.e. Remington Loop. That piques my curiosity and makes me want to look closer.

So far so good, but when I do look closer, I don't see much correspondence. There's no lake and nothing to substitute for one. Most of the streets are missing. The cul-de-sacs contain no islands.  The overall similarity between the maps strikes me as a coincidence driven mainly by Remington Loop.

[albion]

Sycamore, I think this map shows what I am talking about. If you look at the body of water, where the word "ridge" is added, I believe this would be the natural spot for a dam. I believe the creek that goes off to the right is the drainage creek. I think it would also be a mistake to have a body of water in a residential area with the drain off being right through the middle of a commercial property. I think that would be asking for a flooding of the stores there, and I can just imagine the lawsuits resulting between the developers, insurance companies, and the business owners. So I also think that the creek that does go through the commercial area would not be responsible for much water drainage. Which also might be correct since the freeway is to the left of it, and if I am right, uphill of the area. Usually the freeways have a good system of diverting the water. I think also that where this map says "smudge or erasure" at the bottom of the lake, that should also be a creek. Again my opinion, but if it were the case, then there would be three inflow creeks, all on the left side of the "ridge" and the one outflow creek, going off to the right. Which would allow for any flooding to go across the overflow and out through the undeveloped area.

I am also leaning toward the possibility that the map and the essay were written 10 to 20 years before they were found. I am thinking that the word "punishment" was drawn by earons later, along with the scribbling.

Attachments:

[sycamore]

I also like the idea of it being drawn about 10 years or more prior to being found..
The pond shown is in the exact position that the reservoir is in now!
if you look at the old maps of the area you can see the water run off in from these valleys into where the reservoir is now.. .

[newbienew]

Jun 16, 2016 20:58:23 GMT t9d said:

I posted this to another website a minute ago, but since I was reading about your thread from a search,I thought I'd join and post it here too.



Hi. I found the real location of the original map. I started from Visalia and worked my way up. I found it after an hour or so of looking. But then I stayed up all night until 5am or so and searched most of California to make sure.



The Location is at 37.992924,-121.326932 In Stockton



Google Map



Here are my images:













After extensively comparing the map and location I'm certain this is it. This is where the Original Night Stalker drew that map. You do have to to take some liberties of course. It does look like he got quite turned around a bit and made plenty of mistakes. But this is the spot. when I travel I draw my own maps all the time since I prefer to just look at a piece of paper, and it helps to memorize where I'm going better. And I can tell you that even going off of google maps that many times I'm not even this accurate as he got with his map. I compress area's, leave many many parts out, and exaggerate others. I'll run out of room and have to stick things in wrong scale or places. I believe he did the same.



Imagine the Original Night Stalker (East Area Rapist,Golden State Killer) having to draw this map with no Ariel view. Maybe at night, maybe not wanting to stay in one place to long. Or possibly from memory after he got home. And look at all those circles and curves, very easy to get turned around and make mistakes. One thing is for sure there are far far to many similarities to not be it. The odds are far to great.

I made some images of the original map and color coded it. And then I made an image of the actual location and color coded that to match the original map.



If you look at the actual google map location and zoom in you'll see more detail. Not sure if there was ever a lake there or it was covered over to make room for the golf course. Maybe when he was younger a lake was there or maybe right after he made the map it was covered over. He left out the houses in the very middle though where there could have once been a lake. But there is still water there all around it. And if you follow the water you can see it goes all around through the neighborhood. Right up to one of the shopping centers. And another goes toward the College, where it looks like the water keeps going, but where it was a path and water together on the one side of the road it is only the path that continues over to the college side.

The yellow street and yellow court is completely turned around. But look how it curves up around the water. The same curves. Then notice by the Yellow court, the water goes up there right past it. Just like at the real location. Also notice that there are two bridges over the water right near the yellow court. Same with the real location.



look at all the green Cul-de-sac. Pointing in toward the water area. Not super accurate in where he put them. But for the most part it's right.

Look at the middle of the yellow and and green Cul-de-saks. Where I put the red arrows. This is very important. In the middle of them is a small round island. I can tell you that this is very rare and unique. After looking at most of the entire state I almost never ever came across this. Yeah you'll find one here and there, a rare one. But not laid out like this and not so many. This a very important detail and I do not feel you'll ever duplicate this in such a way. This area in Stockton seemed to like using them.

As if that was not enough, look at the houses on the yellow road. They look like tetris pieces. But at the yellow cul-de-sac they look more like a block. At the real location they are also the same like that, and at the culdesak they are also mostly blocks in real life. The same as he drew them. He got that good with the detail. And remember he doesn't see an aerial view, he sees them from the front.



Look at the beginning of the yellow road, where I put the star. It appears he drew in tennis courts. I put a star on the real tennis courts, right about where they should be.

Follow the red road and you see the same curves. From top to bottom where they intersect with the green road on the real location. But look where the red road comes off and goes right, look at how they make the upside down "U". Big one, smaller one, and then a court. A little different off the main red road but he got most of it right.



Green road. The green road goes all the way around and frames the whole area in. Look up to the top left. Same curves all around and especially at that top left. There is no freeway entrance there now though, or small mall area. It's either gone or he got that confused and he was was thinking the small mall area on the bottom left was in a different spot. And probably looked different back then. Of course he might have been thinking that was the college or something. But also looking at googe maps I see that a lot of road work was actually finishing up on the freeway, you can see that they changed a lot of the freeway and it's not the same anymore. I think a long time ago it had those loops like on his drawn map, and it might have been further up where the top left curve is. Or he just mixed it up.



He did totally leave out that whole big other water area, not sure if it was there before, or if it just didn't matter or was a big empty area. He probably didn't have space to put it in and it didn't matter so he left it out. I do stuff like that myself all the time when drawing directions. I could print out a map now but I don't because then I have tons of pages, so I leave things out that are of no consequence to keep it on one page.

See the star on the long building? There is a long building just like that at the real location. Same narrow parts, then bigger parts, then narrow parts. Big stores, small stores. Looks like he ran out of room a bit and had to angle it though, and it's way over in another place. But that has to be the same building, it's just to uncanny how close it is.



If you keep looking you'll probably keep finding more and more similarities. I'm sure you'll find more.



But even after all that evidence I then looked up some the crime locations. I think there were two in Stockton. I didn't find the actual address or look to much but found the neighborhood. At least one of them was right across the freeway from this location map I posted. So VERY close. This was it, this has to be his map location. He had to have been here. I wonder when and why he was there. Is this a crime location that wasn't released? A crime he decided to back out of? Maybe one that wasn't reported? Did he go to that College across the way? Did he live nearby? Was he stalking girls from the College? I don't know. Maybe we'll find out.

This is also a strong candidate.

I notice the lake spread out like back to back Es is also a technique used in developments near the Dana point attack.

Is it possible its the same developer?  Or architect?

I still favor the Danville because its 1-2 miles from where the map was found.

But this is also a very good match and close to a EAR target area.

Looking at UC Davis the El Macero Country club while clearly not the development in the EAR map looks like it could be a cousin.
Looking in walnut creek hidden creek homes with del rio circle in walnut creek,ca looks like a cousin too

[sycamore]

Nope that ain't it.. Go back to sycamore in Danville.

[intuitiva]

Aug 19, 2016 17:37:17 GMT newbienew said:

Jun 16, 2016 20:58:23 GMT t9d said:

I posted this to another website a minute ago, but since I was reading about your thread from a search,I thought I'd join and post it here too.



Hi. I found the real location of the original map. I started from Visalia and worked my way up. I found it after an hour or so of looking. But then I stayed up all night until 5am or so and searched most of California to make sure.



The Location is at 37.992924,-121.326932 In Stockton



Google Map



Here are my images:













After extensively comparing the map and location I'm certain this is it. This is where the Original Night Stalker drew that map. You do have to to take some liberties of course. It does look like he got quite turned around a bit and made plenty of mistakes. But this is the spot. when I travel I draw my own maps all the time since I prefer to just look at a piece of paper, and it helps to memorize where I'm going better. And I can tell you that even going off of google maps that many times I'm not even this accurate as he got with his map. I compress area's, leave many many parts out, and exaggerate others. I'll run out of room and have to stick things in wrong scale or places. I believe he did the same.



Imagine the Original Night Stalker (East Area Rapist,Golden State Killer) having to draw this map with no Ariel view. Maybe at night, maybe not wanting to stay in one place to long. Or possibly from memory after he got home. And look at all those circles and curves, very easy to get turned around and make mistakes. One thing is for sure there are far far to many similarities to not be it. The odds are far to great.

I made some images of the original map and color coded it. And then I made an image of the actual location and color coded that to match the original map.



If you look at the actual google map location and zoom in you'll see more detail. Not sure if there was ever a lake there or it was covered over to make room for the golf course. Maybe when he was younger a lake was there or maybe right after he made the map it was covered over. He left out the houses in the very middle though where there could have once been a lake. But there is still water there all around it. And if you follow the water you can see it goes all around through the neighborhood. Right up to one of the shopping centers. And another goes toward the College, where it looks like the water keeps going, but where it was a path and water together on the one side of the road it is only the path that continues over to the college side.

The yellow street and yellow court is completely turned around. But look how it curves up around the water. The same curves. Then notice by the Yellow court, the water goes up there right past it. Just like at the real location. Also notice that there are two bridges over the water right near the yellow court. Same with the real location.



look at all the green Cul-de-sac. Pointing in toward the water area. Not super accurate in where he put them. But for the most part it's right.

Look at the middle of the yellow and and green Cul-de-saks. Where I put the red arrows. This is very important. In the middle of them is a small round island. I can tell you that this is very rare and unique. After looking at most of the entire state I almost never ever came across this. Yeah you'll find one here and there, a rare one. But not laid out like this and not so many. This a very important detail and I do not feel you'll ever duplicate this in such a way. This area in Stockton seemed to like using them.

As if that was not enough, look at the houses on the yellow road. They look like tetris pieces. But at the yellow cul-de-sac they look more like a block. At the real location they are also the same like that, and at the culdesak they are also mostly blocks in real life. The same as he drew them. He got that good with the detail. And remember he doesn't see an aerial view, he sees them from the front.



Look at the beginning of the yellow road, where I put the star. It appears he drew in tennis courts. I put a star on the real tennis courts, right about where they should be.

Follow the red road and you see the same curves. From top to bottom where they intersect with the green road on the real location. But look where the red road comes off and goes right, look at how they make the upside down "U". Big one, smaller one, and then a court. A little different off the main red road but he got most of it right.



Green road. The green road goes all the way around and frames the whole area in. Look up to the top left. Same curves all around and especially at that top left. There is no freeway entrance there now though, or small mall area. It's either gone or he got that confused and he was was thinking the small mall area on the bottom left was in a different spot. And probably looked different back then. Of course he might have been thinking that was the college or something. But also looking at googe maps I see that a lot of road work was actually finishing up on the freeway, you can see that they changed a lot of the freeway and it's not the same anymore. I think a long time ago it had those loops like on his drawn map, and it might have been further up where the top left curve is. Or he just mixed it up.



He did totally leave out that whole big other water area, not sure if it was there before, or if it just didn't matter or was a big empty area. He probably didn't have space to put it in and it didn't matter so he left it out. I do stuff like that myself all the time when drawing directions. I could print out a map now but I don't because then I have tons of pages, so I leave things out that are of no consequence to keep it on one page.

See the star on the long building? There is a long building just like that at the real location. Same narrow parts, then bigger parts, then narrow parts. Big stores, small stores. Looks like he ran out of room a bit and had to angle it though, and it's way over in another place. But that has to be the same building, it's just to uncanny how close it is.



If you keep looking you'll probably keep finding more and more similarities. I'm sure you'll find more.



But even after all that evidence I then looked up some the crime locations. I think there were two in Stockton. I didn't find the actual address or look to much but found the neighborhood. At least one of them was right across the freeway from this location map I posted. So VERY close. This was it, this has to be his map location. He had to have been here. I wonder when and why he was there. Is this a crime location that wasn't released? A crime he decided to back out of? Maybe one that wasn't reported? Did he go to that College across the way? Did he live nearby? Was he stalking girls from the College? I don't know. Maybe we'll find out.

This is also a strong candidate.

I notice the lake spread out like back to back Es is also a technique used in developments near the Dana point attack.

Is it possible its the same developer?  Or architect?

I still favor the Danville because its 1-2 miles from where the map was found.

But this is also a very good match and close to a EAR target area.

Looking at UC Davis the El Macero Country club while clearly not the development in the EAR map looks like it could be a cousin.
Looking in walnut creek hidden creek homes with del rio circle in walnut creek,ca looks like a cousin too

This is a good example, why everyone should use this site - www.historicaerials.com/ - to see ariel maps of the areas they think would work during the time of EAR.  Attached is a map of that area from 1978, and as you can see it's a lot different than what you are putting on here.  You cannot go by what google maps is telling you, you have to go back to the maps from the time of EAR.  Northern California was a lot different back then, and they were still developing areas like Danville, Sacramento, Walnut Creek, Concord, etc.

Attachments: