Beer deception?

[batman]

Apr 26, 2017 17:32:08 GMT thrax said:

Schnauzer might appreciate this one, if he's still around. Leaving butts and empty cans would be a great red herring if you know that anyone the cops ask about you will immediately confirm that you never, ever drink or smoke, and never would touch either. I'm not saying it's the case, but it's an easy form of evidence to plant if you want to plant reasonable doubt along with it.

It's a pity that stuff wasn't kept. It would be interesting to know whether DNA on the cigarette butts even came from the same guy.

Victims heard him opening a paper bag and closing it and at other times I think a regular bag and closing it. Then these empty cans would appear among the eaten food. The fact EARONS was asking for pills, pretending to take them and then said mushy pills found in a bag elsewhere dumped, tells us that the beer cans and craving narcotics are 'staging'.

EARONS stages parts of the crime scene. Like the kitchen. A drunk adult that comes home and raids the kitchen and leaves more beer guzzling activity.

This means that the places where LE found cigarettes and beer cans outside of homes wasn't where he was standing around. That was his stash of staging stuff that he would go gather from.

The question is - why? The answer is because he isn't a beer guzzling drug addict. I go one step further. He is a kid who isn't legally old enough to drink and has no clue about hard drug use because he acted like an addict but his targets thought his act was very strange like the attacker thought it was how drug attacks behave in need of a fix to breath really heavily and rapidly behind their mask.

[thrax]

Apr 26, 2017 17:42:56 GMT batman said:

The question is - why? The answer is because he isn't a beer guzzling drug addict. I go one step further. He is a kid who isn't legally old enough to drink and has no clue about hard drug use because he acted like an addict but his targets thought his act was very strange like the attacker thought it was how drug attacks behave in need of a fix to breath really heavily and rapidly behind their mask.

That could well be. I won't go that far personally though, because plenty of other explanations could fit. He could have had a religious upbringing that forbade such things, or he could have been a former alcoholic who had been on the wagon for years, or he could have been someone with an allergy to alcohol, or someone who was simply well known as a health nut. Age is definitely one possibility through.

[batman]

Empty or full?

From Shelby's HAP.

Looking in the direction of the sound, she saw a man in the doorway. As she watched, he reached back through the door and picked up an old style medical bag, the satchel type that is opened by pulling the handles apart. Realizing he had been seen, the man said, “Don’t say anything.” With a thud, the doctor-like satchel hit the bedroom floor giving both Doreen and her husband the impression it had cans in it.

[Deleted]

Tossed to throw off. Not a bad idea

[batman]

Apr 28, 2017 7:08:51 GMT @murdoc said:

Tossed to throw off. Not a bad idea

How about this hypothesis...

It is said EAR never left prints.

Yet how do you leave beer cans behind with no prints? The packaging, handling, shop interactions, all before it gets to EAR will be touched. DNA and prints. Unless he cleans them up.

If EAR is planting the cans to mimic an adult drinker, then what are the chances the cans actually have prints on them, but not EARs?

If there are prints on the cans, and if this is a secret, the investigators must have suspected that the cans don't belong to EAR but EAR is staging the cans with the prints to frame someone else.

If there are multiple different prints from different cans, then he is gathering them up from around the place. If they are the same prints, then there is the remote possibility that he is trying to frame someone else with them.

So I would propose this hypothesis, if at a later date its revealed that prints were found on the cans.

[batman]

When the suspect was near the victim, she could smell beer but no other odor.

Shelby's HAP.


June 5, 1978 Fuschia Lane Modesto

[thekinginyellow]

Apr 28, 2017 7:08:51 GMT @murdoc said:

Tossed to throw off. Not a bad idea

I agree. We have to assume that any evidence he left around he put there for a reason. He clearly was somewhat aware of forensic procedures, so leaving a ton of evidence would ensure Le would be busy chasing ghosts instead of him.

A quote from Dune, from Frank Herbert, which I feel is appropriate here (yes I'm paraphrasing) : "control the information someone has and you control that person"

[batman]

May 3, 2017 11:45:49 GMT thekinginyellow said:

Apr 28, 2017 7:08:51 GMT @murdoc said:

Tossed to throw off. Not a bad idea

I agree. We have to assume that any evidence he left around he put there for a reason. He clearly was somewhat aware of forensic procedures, so leaving a ton of evidence would ensure Le would be busy chasing ghosts instead of him.

A quote from Dune, from Frank Herbert, which I feel is appropriate here (yes I'm paraphrasing) : "control the information someone has and you control that person"

Great book. The book physically makes appearance in Bosch Season 3 episode 9.

[batman]

May 3, 2017 13:05:36 GMT batman said:

May 3, 2017 11:45:49 GMT thekinginyellow said:

I agree. We have to assume that any evidence he left around he put there for a reason. He clearly was somewhat aware of forensic procedures, so leaving a ton of evidence would ensure Le would be busy chasing ghosts instead of him.

A quote from Dune, from Frank Herbert, which I feel is appropriate here (yes I'm paraphrasing) : "control the information someone has and you control that person"

Great book. The book physically makes appearance in Bosch Season 3 episode 9.

Shelby has a smokers smell report...

Carol picked up on a strong odor of cigarette smoke.

[suburbsirvine2]

Apr 25, 2017 16:07:58 GMT batman said:

Apr 25, 2017 15:18:11 GMT winters said:

They didn't smell beer or cigarette smoke on him very often, which is weird considering the amount of beer cans and cigarette smoke found at the scenes and at prowling locations.

Yet as you say when it comes to smells, they are quite well documented with EARONS. There are lots of different descriptions of how he smelled and smells, but I was having trouble putting his beer and smoke lifestyle together when it seems it wasn't part of that list of smells. Then consequently if he was doing this to fake something, why would he fake being a boozer? I am definitely in the camp that EARONS is a kid. I use to think before that he raided their booze because it was hard to get for him as a kid. Now I think its not that at all. Adults drink booze and it seems he is trying to convince people he isn't as young as he is. If they knew he was a kid, also by reading reports/being informed, they would probably think again about tackling him, which to be honest, takes lots of guts because this kid did shoot people for trying just that it seems.

I was never a big believer in the idea that EARONS was doing stuff to throw people off-track a lot, like dumping evidence, but this also explains the recovery of the bent spoon. I bet it was just a bent spoon with not a trace of drugs, but he wanted to give the impression he was heroin user. Again, kids on smack. It sadly happens, but you aren't really thinking that way are you? It's an adult on smack you think of first. Not a teenager.

Was smack a big thing among teenagers in that area of suburbia in the early to mid 70's? 

[submarine68]

While I have no idea definitively either one way or another the more I read case details the more it becomes really apparent; the possibility is pretty significant that a lot of what EAR did at a home was deceptive. How many times were his first words to a victim something to the effect of "I'm only here for food and money." I wouldn't be surprised if quite a bit of what we take to be a straight-forward component of his m.o. as something he employed to deceive and mislead. The more I read the more his exploits point simply to the maintenance of "you're not and I am." LE, civic leadership, media, society, families, couples ect. being on one side and EAR-GSK on the other.

[superman]

I always thought the Cigarette buts at scenes where he had either been stalking or hiding prior to entry into a home to be somewhat perplexing. Imagine this... it is night time, there is a guy hiding in the bushes and prowling. Why would he light up a Cig and give away his location by the smoke? The smoke would just draw the eye of passers by.

[batman]

May 3, 2017 18:46:51 GMT superman said:

I always thought the Cigarette buts at scenes where he had either been stalking or hiding prior to entry into a home to be somewhat perplexing. Imagine this... it is night time, there is a guy hiding in the bushes and prowling. Why would he light up a Cig and give away his location by the smoke? The smoke would just draw the eye of passers by.

I would think this observation hard to reconcile with the idea of EARONS being a soldier.

Now when do we get to fly through the air and beat the living * out of each other?

[superman]

May 3, 2017 18:57:05 GMT batman said:

May 3, 2017 18:46:51 GMT superman said:

I always thought the Cigarette buts at scenes where he had either been stalking or hiding prior to entry into a home to be somewhat perplexing. Imagine this... it is night time, there is a guy hiding in the bushes and prowling. Why would he light up a Cig and give away his location by the smoke? The smoke would just draw the eye of passers by.

I would think this observation hard to reconcile with the idea of EARONS being a soldier.

Now when do we get to fly through the air and beat the living * out of each other?

I'm leaning towards the idea that he was possibly trying to make it appear he was older than he actually was...and was extremely forensically aware. For example, would it be too much to think that maybe he just brought butts to the crime scenes to throw off investigators...same with the beer. A lot of things he said to his victims seemed to be 'planted' bits of information in order to give investigators a completely random line of enquiry that will lead nowhere. I wonder if this is any different?

carless cigarette butts left laying around and beer cans - it just doesn't seem to fit with how careful and methodical this guy was. The butts and beer cans make one think of your typical mentally disturbed rapist or murderer that has little thought about whether or not they are leaving clues to their identity - they are just acting in the moment. This doesn't describe EAR.

If this is a viable theory, why would EAR want people to think he smoked and drank a lot? The obvious answer is because of his age.

[batman]

I feel so dense for not getting this sooner.

The empty beer cans are his alarm system. He sets them up around the doors at some stage to detect incomers. He then gathers them up again after he goes.