The Search for Inspirado

[karimprov]

Sept 14, 2017 1:54:24 GMT Any of N said:

I've talked about the need for harboring a few crazy ideas, lest you never consider anything unorthodox and miss out on the truth.

For truth is truth, though never so old, and time cannot make that false which was once true.

Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford (Letter to William Cecil, Lord Burghley, on 3 May 1603)

So what is so crazy about the above quotation? Nothing at all, except that was written by the true author of Hamlet. If I'm wrong about that, then no worries. It's impossible to be 100% accurate when the evidence for truth and falsity overlap. And I've had the benefit of reading works such as this:

That time of year thou mayst in me behold
When yellow leaves, or none, or few, do hang
Upon those boughs which shake against the cold,
Bare ruin'd choirs, where late the sweet birds sang.
In me thou see'st the twilight of such day
As after sunset fadeth in the west,
Which by and by black night doth take away,
Death's second self, that seals up all in rest.
In me thou see'st the glowing of such fire
That on the ashes of his youth doth lie,
As the death-bed whereon it must expire,
Consum'd with that which it was nourish'd by.
This thou perceiv'st, which makes thy love more strong,
To love that well which thou must leave ere long.

William Shakespeare, Sonnet 73

I've read Mark Anderson's book on the Oxfordian theory. I didn't find it convincing, since you could explain away a lot of the evidence. For example, it says the traditional painting of Shakespeare is plagiarised, which it likely was...but it likely just means its painter wasn't any good and was winging it.


Mind, the traditional theory isn't iron-clad, either, but at least it has Shakespeare's name on the cover. The burden of proof is on everybody else.

[Any of N]

By the time Anderson's book came out I couldn't bear to read another long treatise on the subject. Things get very redundant in that world after awhile, and there are mountains of clutter to navigate around. Not to mention the long history of goofy theories that literally go back hundreds of years. Diana Price's book is the one I recommend. She does such a nice job of critiquing the standard view that the burden of proof starts to shift a bit. But for many, the ambiguity of the evidence is a deal breaker. I get that.

[cityofchill]

Like many, I was not born loving Shakespeare. I suffered through Shakespeare until, in my final year of high school, I read the Tempest. Suddenly, it was like a blindfold was removed and I could read and love all Shakespeare's work. I certainly prefer some of his work over others, but perhaps more than any author in any lanugage that I have read (other than Spanish and English, I am forced to read literature in translation), he encapsulates the ongoing, omnipresent dilemmas, joys, worries, ugliness, and beauty of human life and society.

I have read the various books about authorship, read from the folios and learned about many of the controversies surrounding Shakespeare and his writing. In the end, it doesn't really matter to me who wrote these plays and poems. Someone wrote them and that is all that matters.

Sonnet 73 is one of his finest and most memorable. Thank-you for posting it, Any of N. I imagine we could fill this thread with nothing but Shakespeare quotes and it would still be a revelation.

But there is a lot of ground to cover and I just came across an excellent quote from a German Jewish cultural critic named Walter Benjamin, who committed suicide when trying to flee Nazi Europe. Reflecting on civilization and particularly on the history of writing, Benjamin writes:

"There is no document of civilization that is not at the same time a document of barbarism."

How true.

To quote John Lanchester's interpretation of Benjamin's sweeping statement:

"He meant that every complicated and beautiful thing humanity ever made has, if you look at it long enough, a shadow, a history of oppression. As a matter of plain historical fact, that seems right. It was a long and traumatic journey from the invention of writing to your book club’s discussion of Jodi Picoult’s latest."
From John Lanchester's 'The Case Against Civilization.' Published in The New Yorker Magazine: September 17, 2017. 

[NaptimeNancy]

If you're quiet, you're not living. You've got to be noisy and colorful and lively. - Mel Brooks

[cityofchill]

Sept 15, 2017 18:16:41 GMT karimprov said:

Since we're on Shakespeare, can I quote this obvious but beautiful passage from Macbeth?

She should have died hereafter;

There would have been a time for such a word.

— To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,

Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,

To the last syllable of recorded time;

And all our yesterdays have lighted fools

The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!

Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player

That struts and frets his hour upon the stage

And then is heard no more. It is a tale

Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury

Signifying nothing.

Sept 14, 2017 14:37:02 GMT cityofchill said:

Sonnet 73 is one of his finest and most memorable. Thank-you for posting it, Any of N. I imagine we could fill this thread with nothing but Shakespeare quotes and it would still be a revelation.

But there is a lot of ground to cover and I just came across an excellent quote from a German Jewish cultural critic named Walter Benjamin, who committed suicide when trying to flee Nazi Europe. Reflecting on civilization and particularly on the history of writing, Benjamin writes:

"There is no document of civilization that is not at the same time a document of barbarism."

How true.

To quote John Lanchester's interpretation of Benjamin's sweeping statement:

"He meant that every complicated and beautiful thing humanity ever made has, if you look at it long enough, a shadow, a history of oppression. As a matter of plain historical fact, that seems right. It was a long and traumatic journey from the invention of writing to your book club’s discussion of Jodi Picoult’s latest."
From John Lanchester's 'The Case Against Civilization.' Published in The New Yorker Magazine: September 17, 2017. 

Shakespeare is interesting. He's both the product of British imperialism—they promoted him at the expense of authors like Dostoevsky—and a damn fine writer; both propaganda and the real deal. It's true that you could better understand life through a deep understanding of his plays. I've memorised large parts of most the major ones.

Walter Benjamin is an interesting thinker. I've been meaning to read Illuminations, but it's been random essays, mostly. However, I do own a copy of Grand Abyss Hotel, a "biography of the Frankfurt school," and what little I've read of it I found rewarding. You might want to pick it up.   

That passage from Macbeth is sublime. One of my favourite quotes from all literature. You're right that Shakespeare has been pushed down the throats of us Colonials, lol, but he is also the real deal. No doubt there are other fine authors — and Dostoyevsky is a great example — who have also written incredible, transcendent works of fiction. But Shakespeare is a rare thing. Not many like him. None that I can think of. I read a lot of literature in translation, and there is no author I can think of whose work has such enormous scope. Others have certainly achieved at his level, but not SO MUCH material. Not all of his work is equal, but a good deal of it is worthy of praise and renown it is given around the world. IMO, of course.

On further reflection, maybe Dostoyevsky is one who has covered as much ground as the Bard, and touched on as many important themes in prose that is truly memorable and beyond beautiful. I wish I could read him in Russian. Pevear and Volokhonsky have really brought his work to life for me.   

You are in London, right karimprov? I heard about the attack today. Truly awful. My heart goes out to everyone in that great city. 

[cityofchill]

Sept 15, 2017 19:34:33 GMT NaptimeNancy said:

If you're quiet, you're not living. You've got to be noisy and colorful and lively. - Mel Brooks

Agreed!

[karimprov]

Sept 15, 2017 19:48:51 GMT cityofchill said:

Sept 15, 2017 18:16:41 GMT karimprov said:

On further reflection, maybe Dostoyevsky is one who has covered as much ground as the Bard, and touched on as many important themes in prose that is truly memorable and beyond beautiful. I wish I could read him in Russian. Pevear and Volokhonsky have really brought his work to life for me.   

You are in London, right karimprov? I heard about the attack today. Truly awful. My heart goes out to everyone in that great city.

Hey, at least you speak Spanish. You get to read Roberto Bolaño, Gabriel Garcia Marquez, and Borges.

Thanks re:London. I was grateful no-one was hurt. I'm in Amman, actually, although I spend a good chunk of the year in London and moving back within the year. Dual citizen.

[cityofchill]

Sept 16, 2017 21:24:59 GMT karimprov said:

Sept 15, 2017 19:48:51 GMT cityofchill said:

On further reflection, maybe Dostoyevsky is one who has covered as much ground as the Bard, and touched on as many important themes in prose that is truly memorable and beyond beautiful. I wish I could read him in Russian. Pevear and Volokhonsky have really brought his work to life for me.   

You are in London, right karimprov? I heard about the attack today. Truly awful. My heart goes out to everyone in that great city.

Hey, at least you speak Spanish. You get to read Roberto Bolaño, Gabriel Garcia Marquez, and Borges.

Thanks re:London. I was grateful no-one was hurt. I'm in Amman, actually, although I spend a good chunk of the year in London and moving back within the year. Dual citizen.

You're right. I have been fortunate enough to read some of those authors in the original Spanish: Marquéz, Borges, Cervantes, Vargas Llosa (The War of the End of the World is one of the least known great novels of the 20th Century, as far as I'm concerned), and a copy of the Savage Detectives I stumbled upon are all I've been able to find in the orginal Spanish here. Toronto's Hispanic community is not that big compared to other ethnic communities here and it is very heterogenous. There is no one culture or country that dominates, although we have almost no Spanish speakers from the Caribbean. If I want Puerto Rican food, I gotta cook it myself.

You've inspired me! I think my next quote for this thread is going to come from Borges. I have his collected poems and short stories in Spanish and English translation. I don't feel like going down to my library right now to get them, though. Feelin' kind of lazy after a hectic day. I gotta work tomorrow and look after my nieces 😬

So you spend part of the year in Amman and part of the year in London. Right now, most of my students and coworkers are from the Middle East, and some from the Gulf. I would love to visit Jordan, Oman, Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt, Turkey. It's so sad to see the Middle East in such chaos. To see ancient cities like Baghdad, Mosul, Aleppo, Damascus, Tripoli practically destroyed by war...it's devastating. And then to see the repression happening in Turkey and Egypt. It's really dishearteninig. I work with a lot of refugees from cities like Homs, Aleppo, and Baghdad in my current job, and the toll the war has taken on them is horrible. I'm a teacher, and my students are experienced professionals who are fluent in English but need to take classes to prepare them for Canadian colleges and universities, and that is what I do at the moment. Their perserverance and inner strength amazes me, but I also see how their experiences have caused them immense suffering and trauma that manifests in so many ways.

In Canada, the refugees have families sponsoring them and often entire communities supporting them while they get on their feet. It is very inspiring. I hope they are successful and find a place here, and that their children grow up to love this country just as so many previous generations of hyphenated Canadians have. It is the best tool we have against radicalization — making sure that newcomers feel like they are part of Canadian society. And they are. 

[Mitchell]

I've been loathe to post anything else because I didn't want to upset the duelling Shakespeare's. Thoroughly enjoyable.

My contributions will be minor by comparison. We are all not as inclined to classical literature(though it's value be unestimable) as we come from a variety of backgrounds that may have included advanced degrees...or not.

I have posted this before but I thought I would again is one of my favorite quotations.

From MLK's "I Have a Dream" speech.

I am not unmindful that some of you have come here out of great trials and tribulations. Some of you have come fresh from narrow jail cells. Some of you have oome from areas where your quest for freedom left you battered by the storms of persecution and staggered by the winds of police brutality. You have been the veterans of creative suffering.

In my opinion, that is one of the most well crafted sentences in the history of language. It is perhaps one of the truest, as well.

[saturnrising]

"Climb the mountains and get their good tidings."


"I only went out for a walk and finally concluded to stay out till sundown, for going out, I found, was really going in."

- John Muir

I used to hike and camp in the Sierras a lot, and I found John Muir very inspiring, along with the photographs of Ansel Adams and Galen Rowell.

[spodey]

“A dead man is the worst enemy alive, I thought. You can't alter his power over you. You can't alter what you love or owe. And it's too late to ask him for his absolution. He has beaten you all ways.”
― John le Carré, Our Game

[cityofchill]

Don't worry, mitchell. No more Shakespeare! At least, not for a while, lol.
Dr. King certainly has some remarkable speeches and writings that are among the most inspirational and heart-felt I know of. So thank-you for the quote, Mitchell.

One of my favourite short stories, and maybe one of the greatest stories ever written is Jorge Luis Borges' 'The Immortal.' It blew my mind the first time I read it. It is quite possibly the most terrifying story one might ever read, especially if they wish to believe in some sort of eternal life. It's about 10-pages long and I recommend that everyone read it. The whole story is a masterpiece, but this passage is one of my favourites. It explains precisely why mortality is at the root of all that is precious to people:

"Death (or reference to death) makes men precious and pathetic; their ghostliness is touching; any act they perform may be their last; there is no face that is not on the verge of blurring and fading away like the faces in a dream. Everything in the world of the mortals has the value of the irrecoverable and contingent.
Among the Immortals, on the other hand, every act, (every thought) is the echo of others that preceded it in the past, with no visible beginning, and the faithful presage of others that will repeat it in the future, advertiginem. There is nothing that is not as though lost between indefatigable mirrors. Nothing can occur but once, nothing is in peril of being lost."

[Any of N]

I've been around here long enough to know, absolutely know, I'm not the only one-off in the bunch.

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.

— Rudyard Kipling

[Mitchell]

cityofchill, The Shakespeare was terrific. The more the merrier.

My father had the collective works of Steinbeck. Leatherbound and beautiful. I read them all when I was very young, around 10 or 11, probably too young to appreciate them fully.

My favorite was The Pearl. There was a sentence that burned into my young brain which I found to be very profound. I still find that it perfectly explains many of the ridiculous endeavors which have brought us so far as a people and simultaneously which may, eventually, doom us all. It is also at the core of the dynamic which exists between the sexes. It is the basis for the primordial attraction of women to men and men to their leaders. It is throwing caution to the wind and damning the torpedoes.

And yet it was this thing that made him a man, half insane and half god, and Juana had need of a man.

The Pearl
-John Steinbeck

My credo.

I am with you in Rockland...

Howl
-Allan Ginsburg