Murder in Visalia book

[nick]

Oct 26, 2017 4:00:16 GMT trabuco said:

Oct 25, 2017 21:13:36 GMT nick said:

There is no excuse for Sac not catching him I for the life of still do not understand how EAR was able to move around without being stopped it seems impossible to me. The constitution was out the window in those days and no PC stops were normal and yet he was never identified it baffles me and frustrates me every day. I know when I participated in a similar event we stopped everything that was moving be it driving, walking, biking, scooters. skateboards everything that was a breathing human being and filled out FI cards on everybody. They were all looked at and eliminated until we ended with a bad guy. Why did it not work in this case??

You said "everything that was a breathing human being and filled out FI cards on everybody."

Would that include all other first responders? Police? paramedics? rape crisis center personnel? K-9 police dog handlers? The garbage man? A mother or father driving junior around to throw the paper? a well known tow truck driver? Lanscapers and gardeners despite a dreaded language barrier?

The way I read your post I suppose you meant everyone. Now I'm thinking about Gary Oldman's response in 'The Professional.'  www.youtube.com/watch?v=74BzSTQCl_c

The one I worked we stopped everyone and I mean everyone. Police K-9 officers no they are officers not unless we had a reason to. If you are referencing the bloodhound people as in tracking EAR they are not sworn and I would have run them but when I was doing this we had our own K-9 Officers. We stopped Gardeners yes, I speak Spanish (but I do have an accent) as well so no language barrier at all. Newspaper people would have been stopped and fi driver and everyone in that car. Tow truck driver's very much so I ran one that was a parolee at large in fact. We did everyone and I can not imagine that not happening in the EAR case especially once the 8th attack occurred. I also know from my old patrol guy source they were even looking at their own people and especially Reserve Deputies and even at least two CHP officers. He also told me they had a ton of FI cards that they filled out and were asked why they did not have a handful each shift they worked if they had a small number.

That clip is most likely what a meeting in the Sheriff himself's office would have sounded like in 1977 while meeting with the Chief of Investigations. 

[trabuco]

Oct 26, 2017 6:21:53 GMT nick said:

Oct 26, 2017 4:00:16 GMT trabuco said:

You said "everything that was a breathing human being and filled out FI cards on everybody."

Would that include all other first responders? Police? paramedics? rape crisis center personnel? K-9 police dog handlers? The garbage man? A mother or father driving junior around to throw the paper? a well known tow truck driver? Lanscapers and gardeners despite a dreaded language barrier?

The way I read your post I suppose you meant everyone. Now I'm thinking about Gary Oldman's response in 'The Professional.'  www.youtube.com/watch?v=74BzSTQCl_c

The one I worked we stopped everyone and I mean everyone. Police K-9 officers no they are officers not unless we had a reason to. If you are referencing the bloodhound people as in tracking EAR they are not sworn and I would have run them but when I was doing this we had our own K-9 Officers. We stopped Gardeners yes, I speak Spanish (but I do have an accent) as well so no language barrier at all. Newspaper people would have been stopped and fi driver and everyone in that car. Tow truck driver's very much so I ran one that was a parolee at large in fact. We did everyone and I can not imagine that not happening in the EAR case especially once the 8th attack occurred. I also know from my old patrol guy source they were even looking at their own people and especially Reserve Deputies and even at least two CHP officers. He also told me they had a ton of FI cards that they filled out and were asked why they did not have a handful each shift they worked if they had a small number.

That clip is most likely what a meeting in the Sheriff himself's office would have sounded like in 1977 while meeting with the Chief of Investigations. 

Thanks for your service, for being thorough and not cutting corners.

[nick]

Oct 26, 2017 19:54:43 GMT trabuco said:

Oct 26, 2017 6:21:53 GMT nick said:

The one I worked we stopped everyone and I mean everyone. Police K-9 officers no they are officers not unless we had a reason to. If you are referencing the bloodhound people as in tracking EAR they are not sworn and I would have run them but when I was doing this we had our own K-9 Officers. We stopped Gardeners yes, I speak Spanish (but I do have an accent) as well so no language barrier at all. Newspaper people would have been stopped and fi driver and everyone in that car. Tow truck driver's very much so I ran one that was a parolee at large in fact. We did everyone and I can not imagine that not happening in the EAR case especially once the 8th attack occurred. I also know from my old patrol guy source they were even looking at their own people and especially Reserve Deputies and even at least two CHP officers. He also told me they had a ton of FI cards that they filled out and were asked why they did not have a handful each shift they worked if they had a small number.

That clip is most likely what a meeting in the Sheriff himself's office would have sounded like in 1977 while meeting with the Chief of Investigations. 

Thanks for your service, for being thorough and not cutting corners.

I think I was in the majority in LE there will always be a small number of "slugs" who do not work very hard and don't seem to care but they are the minority in places I worked. My I have been lucky but I worked with very driven men and women who worked their tails off in patrol and investigations with less than a handful of lazy people over 20 years. The cases did not stop after your off the clock either we all spend endless hours during days off thinking of ways to solve a case or a different angle to work. There is no better feeling than starting an investigation and developing it using evidence along with witnesses and discovering a suspect taking it all the way to prosecution. I loved the cases where physical evidence such as latent fingerprints or DNA was located (especially the difficult to find) and I lifted the print or located a small DNA source that others might have overlooked and got a hit on a suspect finishing it with a warrant and a suspect interview and tell them how clever I was and how I found them.

[oldguy]

Oct 25, 2017 21:13:36 GMT nick said:

Oct 25, 2017 1:21:58 GMT Drifter said:

nick ... what you are saying is no doubt correct.

But your comments do not explain why the EAR/ONS wasn't identified. The "lack of cooperation" rationale has been used as a reason why the guy was never identified.

So that for Sacramento, for example, LE has been implying for years that the guy wasn't identified specifically because there was a lack of cooperation between jurisdictions.

But in the EAR case, there is no other jurisdiction relevant to that line of reasoning. The guy had not yet offended in Contra Costa County, or southern California. So, in a case spanning some forty rapes, why didn't Sacramento County identify the EAR?

Whatever the reason, it's not because of "lack of cooperation" between jurisdictions.

D.

There is no excuse for Sac not catching him I for the life of still do not understand how EAR was able to move around without being stopped it seems impossible to me. The constitution was out the window in those days and no PC stops were normal and yet he was never identified it baffles me and frustrates me every day. I know when I participated in a similar event we stopped everything that was moving be it driving, walking, biking, scooters. skateboards everything that was a breathing human being and filled out FI cards on everybody. They were all looked at and eliminated until we ended with a bad guy. Why did it not work in this case??

I hear your frustration.

Do you know if the departments involved employed a close supervisory presence during those high priority times? According to my brother-Phila PD in the 1970's experienced severe problems with neglect of duty at night. Guys always blamed in on rotating shift work. A major alteration in shift changes (around 1990 I think) apparently helped a lot.

But until he retired in mid 1980's..he woke up a lot of guys in Fairmount park.

Is there anyone here who worked in Sacramento PD then?

[bob]

Jan 1977: Orange County CLUE Cold Case Task Force was formed. In 1977 they analysed and linked the So. Cal. murders. They contacted SB Sheriff's Dept, but the Lieutenant there wouldn't discuss it with them.

May 18 1977: Visalia Detectives McGowan and Shipley suggest to Sac. LE that VR is EAR. 

1978 Mayor Isenberg, Vice Mayor Matsui and Sacramento City Council Members told the "Chief of Police to not cooperate with the Sac Sheriff in regards to EAR because they wanted him caught by their Police Officers not Sheriff's Deputies." This information was leaked from Sac PD to the Sac SO. The Sheriff knew first and was one of the top five to know.

June 1979: Walnut Creek Watch Commander, Lieutenant Gary Ford, told Sergeant Crompton (after the June 2nd attack) "We don't want your help, we don't need your help. We don't want you in our city. We don't want your Task Force in our city." He also said, "The East Area Rapist has not been in our town and will never be in our town. If you go to the press, we will deny it. ...I want you out of my town."

February 1980: Sacramento Sergeant Jim Bevins heard rumors of the Manning murders (12/30/79) and called Santa Barbara County LE. SB County LE denied having any murders matching the EAR pattern. Crompton also called SB LE, and SB County LE lied to Crompton as well.

March 1980: Investigator Jim Bevins promoted the idea that EAR may be EAR/ONS. Sac. Sheriff's Lt. Ray Root disuaded him along with Santa Barbara Sgt. William Baker. Santa Barbara later considered the connection. (Santa Ana Register article, July 30, 1981).

1980s: Sac LE discarded EAR rape evidence. Ostensibly this occurred due to the expired statute of limitations (SOL) on rape. However, the Maggiore murders that Lt. Bondi worked, and VR/Snelling murder were potentially connected, and this possibility was known. So the rape kits were evidence possibly related to 3 murders in 2 counties when they were discarded.

2001: Sacramento DA's Office set up a meeting to discuss investigation of the DNA-linked murders and rapes. Larry Crompton requested an invite and was turned down. SB Sheriff's Dept. complained about involving the CCC Clue unit (and Larry Pool) as well as retired investigator Crompton. Sac DA's Office set up an EAR/ONS investigative unit, and because of SB Sheriff's complaints they kept out Detective Larry Pool (CCC's lead Investigator) as well as retired Sacramento Detective Crompton. Corruption and Pool had extensive hours on the case by that time. Their expertise could have been useful to others who were not as familiar with the case.

June 2001: CCC Sheriff Rupf wrote a complaint to the Orange County  Sheriff that Larry Crompton had taken EAR/ONS evidence to Orange County and given it to Crompton. 99% of what he gave to Crompton were copies of the orignals that were being thrown out by CCC in the '80s by order of the Sheriff.

1977-2009: OC Sheriff Mike Corona imprisoned for felony witness tampering.

Orange County burglaries have been attributed to EAR/ONS, but that information has been kept private.

**** 2016 ***** Instead of letting another LE department (that regularly collects DNA surreptitiously) collect POI DNA, Sacramento  LE stepped in. They sent a young female cop to his door and did not tell her why his DNA was being requested. Her instructions were to do a "knock and talk" with the POI and ask for DNA. There was no one home; she followed protocol and left a note on the door.
This gives a  POI 3-months of warning (during the wait for DNA test results).  A different department could have done this quietly. When EAR/ONS is identified, do we really want him given 3 months warning??? So he can bug out?

***** 2017 **** The LE woman in charge in Sacramento refuses to let Larry Pool consult on the investigation. Which is kind of stupid. Sacramento was rape crimes prior to the murders. Larry Pool was the investigator in Orange County who is familiar with many of the ONS murders. At this time, it appears that other investigators outside of Sacramento are also being shut out of the investigation.

As always, Sacramento is more interested in territorial dick wagging than solving the actual crimes. If it's ever solved, I expect they will crow like roosters about their success, when in reality, all they have done is helped keep this perpetrator free for more than 40 years.

[nick]

Nov 3, 2017 2:38:46 GMT bob said:

Jan 1977 Orange County CLUE Cold Case Task Force formed. In 1977 they analysed and linked the So. Cal. murders. They contacted SB Sheriff's Dept, but the Lieutenant wouldn't discuss it with them.


May 18 1977 Visalia Detectives McGowan and Shipley suggest to Sac. LE that VR is EAR.

1978 Mayor Isenberg, Vice Mayor Matsui and Sac. City Council Members told the "Chief of Police to not cooperate with the Sac Sheriff in regards to EAR because they wanted him caught by their Police Officers not Sheriff's Deputies." This information was leaked from Sac PD to the Sac SO. The Sheriff knew first and was one of the top five to know.

June 1979Walnut Creek Watch Commander, Lieutenant Gary Ford, told Sergeant Crompton (after the attack on June 2nd) "We don't want your help, we don't need your help. We don't want you in our city. We don't want your Task Force in our city." He also said, "The East Area Rapist has not been in our town and will never be in our town. If you go to the press, we will deny it. ...I want you out of my town."

February 1980 Sacramento Sergeant Jim Bevins heard rumors of the Manning murders (12/30/79) and called SB County LE. SB County LE denied having any murders matching the EAR pattern. Crompton also called SB LE, and SB County LE lied to him as well.

March 1980 Investigator Jim Bevinspromotes the idea that EAR may be EAR/ONS. Sac. Sheriff's Lt. Ray Root disuades him along with Santa Barbara Sgt. William Baker. SB later considers the connection. Santa Ana Register article, July 30, 1981.

1980 Sac LE Discard Evidence (1980-1985)Ostensibly this occurred due to the expired statute of limitations (SOL) on rape. However, the Maggiore murders that Lt. Bondi worked, and VR/Snelling murder were potentially connected and this possibility was known. The rape kits were evidence possibly related to 3 murders in 2 counties when they were discarded.

2001Sacramento DA's Office sets up a meeting to discuss investigation of the DNA-linked murders and rapes. Crompton requested an invite and was turned down. SB Sheriff's Dept. complained about involving the CCC Clue unit (and Pool) as well as retired investigators (Crompton).

June 2001CCC Sheriff Rupf complains (in a letter) to OC Sheriff that Larry Crompton has taken EAR/ONS evidence to Orange County (to Crompton) 99% of what Crompton had were copies of the orignals that were being thrown out by CCC in the '80s by order of the Sheriff.

2001 when Sac DA's Office set up an EAR/ONS investigative unit, SB Sheriff complained enough to keep out CCC's lead Investigator (Detective Pool) as well as retired Sacramento Detective Crompton.

1977-2009OC Sheriff Mike Corona imprisoned for felony witness tampering.

Orange County burglaries have been attributed to EAR/ONS, but that information has been kept private.

**** 2016 ***** Instead of letting another LE department (that regularly collects DNA surreptitiously) Sac. LE steps in and does a knock and talk, giving a POI 3 months warning-while they wait for a DNA test that a different department could have done quietly.

***** 2017 **** The LE woman in charge in Sacramento refuses to let Larry Pool consult on the investigation. Which is kind of stupid. Sac was the rape crimes. Larry Pool was the investigator in Orange County. At this time, it appears that other investigators outside of Sac. are also being shut out a little bit.

As always, Sacramento is more interested in territorial dick wagging than solving the actual crimes.

All of that is 100 percent correct and makes me sick to my stomach it is in times like this when the bickering and posturing chest thumping embarrasses me to ever be a part of that dysfunctional machine that is LE. The personal agendas of both elected appointed both Sheriff and Police Chiefs have hampered the solving of this and many other high profile cases and even lower profile that crossed jurisdictional boundaries that cause the agencies to be in competition to catch the offender. The blaming of each other for their failures and inability to locate and arrest an offender.

[happycamper]

Nov 3, 2017 2:38:46 GMT bob said:

Jan 1977: Orange County CLUE Cold Case Task Force was formed. In 1977 they analysed and linked the So. Cal. murders. They contacted SB Sheriff's Dept, but the Lieutenant there wouldn't discuss it with them.

May 18 1977: Visalia Detectives McGowan and Shipley suggest to Sac. LE that VR is EAR. 

1978 Mayor Isenberg, Vice Mayor Matsui and Sacramento City Council Members told the "Chief of Police to not cooperate with the Sac Sheriff in regards to EAR because they wanted him caught by their Police Officers not Sheriff's Deputies." This information was leaked from Sac PD to the Sac SO. The Sheriff knew first and was one of the top five to know.

June 1979: Walnut Creek Watch Commander, Lieutenant Gary Ford, told Sergeant Crompton (after the June 2nd attack) "We don't want your help, we don't need your help. We don't want you in our city. We don't want your Task Force in our city." He also said, "The East Area Rapist has not been in our town and will never be in our town. If you go to the press, we will deny it. ...I want you out of my town."

February 1980: Sacramento Sergeant Jim Bevins heard rumors of the Manning murders (12/30/79) and called Santa Barbara County LE. SB County LE denied having any murders matching the EAR pattern. Crompton also called SB LE, and SB County LE lied to Crompton as well.

March 1980: Investigator Jim Bevins promoted the idea that EAR may be EAR/ONS. Sac. Sheriff's Lt. Ray Root disuaded him along with Santa Barbara Sgt. William Baker. Santa Barbara later considered the connection. (Santa Ana Register article, July 30, 1981).

1980s: Sac LE discarded EAR rape evidence. Ostensibly this occurred due to the expired statute of limitations (SOL) on rape. However, the Maggiore murders that Lt. Bondi worked, and VR/Snelling murder were potentially connected, and this possibility was known. So the rape kits were evidence possibly related to 3 murders in 2 counties when they were discarded.

2001: Sacramento DA's Office set up a meeting to discuss investigation of the DNA-linked murders and rapes. Larry Crompton requested an invite and was turned down. SB Sheriff's Dept. complained about involving the CCC Clue unit (and Larry Pool) as well as retired investigator Crompton. Sac DA's Office set up an EAR/ONS investigative unit, and because of SB Sheriff's complaints they kept out Detective Larry Pool (CCC's lead Investigator) as well as retired Sacramento Detective Crompton. Corruption and Pool had extensive hours on the case by that time. Their expertise could have been useful to others who were not as familiar with the case.

June 2001: CCC Sheriff Rupf wrote a complaint to the Orange County  Sheriff that Larry Crompton had taken EAR/ONS evidence to Orange County and given it to Crompton. 99% of what he gave to Crompton were copies of the orignals that were being thrown out by CCC in the '80s by order of the Sheriff.

1977-2009: OC Sheriff Mike Corona imprisoned for felony witness tampering.

Orange County burglaries have been attributed to EAR/ONS, but that information has been kept private.

**** 2016 ***** Instead of letting another LE department (that regularly collects DNA surreptitiously) collect POI DNA, Sacramento  LE stepped in and did a knock and talk with one POI and asked for DNA. This  gave the POI a 3-month warning (during the wait for DNA test results).  A different department could have done this quietly. When EAR/ONS is identified, do we really want him given 3 months warning??? So he can bug out?

***** 2017 **** The LE woman in charge in Sacramento refuses to let Larry Pool consult on the investigation. Which is kind of stupid. Sacramento was rape crimes prior to the murders. Larry Pool was the investigator in Orange County who is familiar with many of the ONS murders. At this time, it appears that other investigators outside of Sacramento are also being shut out of the investigation.

As always, Sacramento is more interested in territorial dick wagging than solving the actual crimes. If it's ever solved, I expect they will crow like roosters about their success, when in reality, all they have done is helped keep this perpetrator free for more than 40 years.

No names for 2016 or 2017? No accountability - not acceptable.

[bob]

I did not mention names in 2016 for 2 reasons.


1. They sent a young female cop to a POI's door (in 2016) and did not tell her why his DNA was being requested. Her instructions were to do a "knock and talk" with the POI and ask for DNA. There was no one home; she followed protocol and left a note on the door. He called later and was swabbed. That's how this mostly works. 

I believe the cop shop usually has an am (start-of-shift) roll call. Assignments are handed out to the cops who work that beat. She pulled this assignment and did her job. I don't know specifically who assigned her, but I've not reason to mention her name. I don't know if she is the one who returned after the POI called. And since there were around 500-600 POIs tested, this experience was not/is not isolated to her. So pick any beat cop's name in Sacramento and make an assumption.

2. The gal in Sacramento who shut down the other counties. I couldn't remember her name and was too lazy to look it up. Shoulder length brown hair, does the chatting about the case on the news. Watch Sacramento's blurbs for her.