Is VR and EAR the same person, by GoBears

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

Oct 23, 2013 5:36:55 GMT ezraeda said:

Oct 22, 2013 20:44:15 GMT danmiami said:

Sandia his hatred for women is embedded in his psychological makeup just like his DNA. He is also most likely very impulsive. He doesn't follow a script he acts when his rage is at the tipping point. Goes to Goleta and is angry for some reason whether imaginary or for a recent occurrence. He sees Ms Taylor as an older woman thus views her as less of a risk to take out his anger. Remember this is very early on where he is less confident. Figures he is leaving soon to go back to Visalia for whatever reason. The rage builds all day until he has to make someone pay. Ms Taylor is a victim of opportunity for him. Not his perfect intended target but someone that will do for now. Remember these people do not think like you and me. He doesn't see Ms Taylor as a human being but rather just a release. Absolutely no remorse which makes him the most dangerous. His male victims were not his primary targets. However he viewed them as a challenge and liked taunting and reliving the experience for some sick purpose.

I just read, on FBI Serial profiling page, that serials who rape/kill the elderly are usually sexually inexperienced. That would further support the theory that the VR became EARS, but committed the attack on Ms. Taylor as a younger perpetrator, trying it out in a an early fit of rage, but choosing a victim that reflects his lack of sexual experience. Seem possible? 

A youth was seen jumping over her rear fence earlier in the evening so the sexually inexperienced comment you made, ezraeda, would fit, it seems to me.  I do want to clarify that Ms. Taylor was not raped.  Inv. Pool said that sometimes a killer's first motive is an easy target and may not kill again for years.  The fact that she was in her 70's,  and the fact that she was not raped don't seem to fit, yet Inv. Pool while NOT saying he believes this murder was part of the EAR/ONS/GSK series, he does believe it is logical to think it might be.

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

Oct 22, 2013 21:56:31 GMT luke said:

Thanks Sandia, I remember that one now. Apart from the expletives and saying LE will never catch him, what else does he say in that call? It's hard to determine.

Actually, Luke, I'd rather not repeat it.  LOL.  But the links to the recording are available on this site somewhere. 

[rocker]

Oct 23, 2013 5:36:55 GMT ezraeda said:

Oct 22, 2013 20:44:15 GMT danmiami said:

Sandia his hatred for women is embedded in his psychological makeup just like his DNA. He is also most likely very impulsive. He doesn't follow a script he acts when his rage is at the tipping point. Goes to Goleta and is angry for some reason whether imaginary or for a recent occurrence. He sees Ms Taylor as an older woman thus views her as less of a risk to take out his anger. Remember this is very early on where he is less confident. Figures he is leaving soon to go back to Visalia for whatever reason. The rage builds all day until he has to make someone pay. Ms Taylor is a victim of opportunity for him. Not his perfect intended target but someone that will do for now. Remember these people do not think like you and me. He doesn't see Ms Taylor as a human being but rather just a release. Absolutely no remorse which makes him the most dangerous. His male victims were not his primary targets. However he viewed them as a challenge and liked taunting and reliving the experience for some sick purpose.

I just read, on FBI Serial profiling page, that serials who rape/kill the elderly are usually sexually inexperienced. That would further support the theory that the VR became EARS, but committed the attack on Ms. Taylor as a younger perpetrator, trying it out in a an early fit of rage, but choosing a victim that reflects his lack of sexual experience. Seem possible? 

Certainly possible. And it weighs favorable to the statement by danmiami: "He sees Ms Taylor as an older woman thus views her as less of a risk to take out his anger. Remember this is very early on where he is less confident."

[luke]

Thanks Sandia, I understand :-)

[ezraeda]

Oct 23, 2013 5:51:38 GMT Agent99 aka Sandia said:

Oct 23, 2013 5:36:55 GMT ezraeda said:

I just read, on FBI Serial profiling page, that serials who rape/kill the elderly are usually sexually inexperienced. That would further support the theory that the VR became EARS, but committed the attack on Ms. Taylor as a younger perpetrator, trying it out in a an early fit of rage, but choosing a victim that reflects his lack of sexual experience. Seem possible? 

A youth was seen jumping over her rear fence earlier in the evening so the sexually inexperienced comment you made, ezraeda, would fit, it seems to me.  I do want to clarify that Ms. Taylor was not raped.  Inv. Pool said that sometimes a killer's first motive is an easy target and may not kill again for years.  The fact that she was in her 70's,  and the fact that she was not raped don't seem to fit, yet Inv. Pool while NOT saying he believes this murder was part of the EAR/ONS/GSK series, he does believe it is logical to think it might be.

My mistake, thanks for clearing it up, as that fact DOESN'T agree with the FBI profile., at least nor as I read it. Could be that the idea of a youngster killing someone elderly simply reflects the fact of a vulnerable, easy target, without all the heavy psychological issues implied in a young-on-elderly rape. Thanks for keeping me honest, 99!

[danmiami]

Hi Ezraeda,

I think the way I wrote a few of my posts earlier on have been a bit conflicting in that Sandia wrote that serial killers can commit crimes based on impulsion. I said serial killers prefer to be intimate in their surroundings but this is not always the case. Our guy also seemed to be careful in how he planned his crimes and as a result was very skillful when attacking in Sacramento and Southern California. The Taylor murder again was very early on when he was just getting started. Something may have set him off where his anger was such that he was "going to make someone pay" for his pain. Our guy did not desire Ms Taylor in a sexual way and if she was raped I would have discarded this crime as as act unrelated to this killer. At this point in his life rape may have been too much for him to plan just like murder was in Sacramento. However he probably was or is very impulsive when something "sets him off". Again psychopaths often do not follow a script and perhaps breaking into Ms Taylor's home and his impulsive rage took over and he bludgeoned her. Also, he probably was not in the house for very long as in later cases. Again he is not as confident as a rapist or killer yet. However he needed a "release" and his hatred for women made someone pay the ultimate price. Unfortunately it was Ms Taylor in this case.


Now I don't know how coordinated he was in Visalia if he was VR. However some of you pointed out that their were some striking similarities between how VR stuck and EAR if you believe what you read of course. If someone could confirm that VR stacked dishes by the door so he could hear when someone came home I cannot understand how the two are not one and the same. A four hour drive upstate to escape the heat after nearly shooting an officer doesn't seem plausible just as when he leaves town after shooting the Maggiores? Again speculation but based on the pattern very compelling evidence. How long would we have been debating about whether he killed The Smiths or The Harringtons without the biological evidence due to the distances between the locations, etc? Also we didn't know that bludgeoning was his preferred method for murder unless you include the Taylor homicide years earlier. It is all like pieces of a puzzle which are very hard to put together .

One more thing later on in his crime spree in my opinion he obviously picked the women and the home based on surveillance and he desire to have her. Probably obsessed about having them as well but when he saw them intimate with their husbands then he became enraged and that rage fueled his passion for killing. In the Smith home he drank milk from the refrigerator and helped himself to turkey at the Offerman home. " The house is mine and I do as I want. She is mine! Nobody can stop me not even those stupid Pigs . I am smarter" he must have thought. The think that gets me is he changes his MO again with the Witthuhn murder. She was alone and her husband was in the hospital. Police surmised that he may have thought David Witthuhn was home. I disagree. I think he knew she was alone as he did Janelle Cruz. Why did he change again as these women were not intimate with anyone prior to be killed? But in the interim he went back to Goleta after killing Manuela to kill Domingo/Samchez? Why the inconsistency? Was it impulsiveness vs planned coordinated attacks or something else? Reading the evil associated with this man is why I sleep heavily armed. I also am a light sleeper just as Larry Pool mentioned in the interview. It sticks with you no matter who you are and that is why so many people want to know who this guy is?

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

Oct 23, 2013 12:11:37 GMT danmiami said:

Hi Ezraeda,

I think the way I wrote a few of my posts earlier on have been a bit conflicting in that Sandia wrote that serial killers can commit crimes based on impulsion. I said serial killers prefer to be intimate in their surroundings but this is not always the case. Our guy also seemed to be careful in how he planned his crimes and as a result was very skillful when attacking in Sacramento and Southern California. The Taylor murder again was very early on when he was just getting started. Something may have set him off where his anger was such that he was "going to make someone pay" for his pain. Our guy did not desire Ms Taylor in a sexual way and if she was raped I would have discarded this crime as as act unrelated to this killer. At this point in his life rape may have been too much for him to plan just like murder was in Sacramento. However he probably was or is very impulsive when something "sets him off". Again psychopaths often do not follow a script and perhaps breaking into Ms Taylor's home and his impulsive rage took over and he bludgeoned her. Also, he probably was not in the house for very long as in later cases. Again he is not as confident as a rapist or killer yet. However he needed a "release" and his hatred for women made someone pay the ultimate price. Unfortunately it was Ms Taylor in this case.


Now I don't know how coordinated he was in Visalia if he was VR. However some of you pointed out that their were some striking similarities between how VR stuck and EAR if you believe what you read of course. If someone could confirm that VR stacked dishes by the door so he could hear when someone came home I cannot understand how the two are not one and the same. A four hour drive upstate to escape the heat after nearly shooting an officer doesn't seem plausible just as when he leaves town after shooting the Maggiores? Again speculation but based on the pattern very compelling evidence. How long would we have been debating about whether he killed The Smiths or The Harringtons without the biological evidence due to the distances between the locations, etc? Also we didn't know that bludgeoning was his preferred method for murder unless you include the Taylor homicide years earlier. It is all like pieces of a puzzle which are very hard to put together .

One more thing later on in his crime spree in my opinion he obviously picked the women and the home based on surveillance and he desire to have her. Probably obsessed about having them as well but when he saw them intimate with their husbands then he became enraged and that rage fueled his passion for killing. In the Smith home he drank milk from the refrigerator and helped himself to turkey at the Offerman home. " The house is mine and I do as I want. She is mine! Nobody can stop me not even those stupid Pigs . I am smarter" he must have thought. The think that gets me is he changes his MO again with the Witthuhn murder. She was alone and her husband was in the hospital. Police surmised that he may have thought David Witthuhn was home. I disagree. I think he knew she was alone as he did Janelle Cruz. Why did he change again as these women were not intimate with anyone prior to be killed? But in the interim he went back to Goleta after killing Manuela to kill Domingo/Samchez? Why the inconsistency? Was it impulsiveness vs planned coordinated attacks or something else? Reading the evil associated with this man is why I sleep heavily armed. I also am a light sleeper just as Larry Pool mentioned in the interview. It sticks with you no matter who you are and that is why so many people want to know who this guy is?

Good morning Dan,  I just want to be sure and clarify what I have said.  I always am careful to not state things as FACT when they are THEORIES.   I am concerned that people, especially newby's to the board, will take what I say as factual and not theory. 

I have the "FRAMING" theory and I feel a little frustrated that I "think" (not sure of this) that LE is not exploring that angle.   I believe in it but it could turn out to be wrong.

 I don't even want to say I BELIEVE that Eva Taylor was an early GSK victim.  She didn't fit the profile, was in her 70's and was NOT raped.  However because she was a sleeping woman, bludgeoned to death, nothing of value taken, youth seen jumping over her fence earlier in the evening AND THE LOCATION, those are very compelling FACTS and Investigator Pool DID NOT SAY HE THINKS SHE WAS A VICTIM.  He thinks it is logical to think it is POSSIBLE.  He is open minded to it. 

Some people that I respect on this board DO believe she was a victim, a retired SBSO detective I correspond with on occasion DOES believe she was an early victim and is critical of the SBSO detectives that according to her do not think outside of the box.   SBSO firmly believes she was NOT a victim of GSK because of the Progression of Violence THEORY that he believes strongly in.  I like Inv. Pool's postition of being open minded about it.  So there are people in LE that disagree with each other on this issue and other issues. 

The VR being the GSK is very controversial.  I take it that LE now does believe it is connected, but do they even know or is that even a theory, Arch and Officer McGowen's son and others do not think the VR is the GSK.

 The Maggiori's is controvercial, I take it LE now believes it to be connected but Arch doesn't.

I prefer to defer to guessting, PortofLeith and Arch who does not post here.  They have been working the case for years longer than I have and I believe them to know much more than I do, I really respect their opinions, but I have noticed that they do not agree on everything themselves as is the case within LE and  the case is not solved so nobody really knows everything.

Anyway, I just want to be sure that people notice when I say "I think, I believe, it's my theory" and the Eva Taylor and the framing situations are specifically what I want to be careful about stating as fact.  There are facts involved but the results of putting certain facts together is speculation and theory.

Whew, that took much longer than I intended.  Have a great day! 99

[lepke]

Seeing as you must all be on tenterhooks, desperate to hear my opinions on some of these burning issues, I'll let you know what I think, as one of the mighty titans of the board

I think that we should keep an open mind about all these unanswered questions, as not doing so without proof would be foolish. As for Eva Taylor, and I think it is pretty hard to say at this stage, whether she was an EAR/ONS victim.

I think that it is more likely than not that EAR/ONS started off as VR, or possibly a more accurate way of saying that would be that the same person (I use that word loosely) carried out the well known ransackings in Visalia, and later carried out the well known rapes in the Sacramento area.

I also think that it is more likely than not that EAR/ONS killed the Maggiores.

[ezraeda]

Oct 22, 2013 21:56:31 GMT luke said:

Thanks Sandia, I remember that one now. Apart from the expletives and saying LE will never catch him, what else does he say in that call? It's hard to determine.

He says he's going to rape again tonight. Horrible.

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

Oct 22, 2013 21:56:31 GMT luke said:

Thanks Sandia, I remember that one now. Apart from the expletives and saying LE will never catch him, what else does he say in that call? It's hard to determine.

Hi Luke, I just don't like to say graphic words on a public board.  I haven't listened to the tape for a while and am working, so I just have to go from memory, he said something like hello you dumb fuc#@rs, it's the east area rapist and I'm going to f$k again tonight.  I can't recall if he said anything else without listening to it again.  I'll try to later and let you know if he said anything else you couldn't discern.  The main idea was not what he said but trying to identify his voice anyway.  I think he was breathing hard at the beginning of the take like in the "gonna kill you" recording.  Remember that horrible hard breathing?  It was like that but harder to discern.  ezraeda/agatha said rape again tonight but he said f$#k.  Could you not make that out in the tape?  LE did have to do a lot of work to clean up the tape, of course they couldn't clean up the language, and I didn't want to say that on the public board.  Never know when someone is going to get their jollies from hearing me talk like that.   LOL  Have a great day. 
p.s. Do you live currently in South Africa or are you from there originally.

[luke]

Thanks Agatha and Sandia!

I listened to the three recordings on Michelle McNamara's pages on this subject.

To me the "dumb #a@!" call is the most revealing. Although not the most eloquent of orators, to me he sounds EXTREMLEY confident and calculating.

Admittedly the recording is old and unclear, however, it does sound as though he has/had a tendency to speak extremely fast, making him quite difficult to understand. I eventually got the gist of his message after listening a few times.

He also appears to have a tendency to extend the last syllable of the last word of a sentence, i.e. "This is the East Area Rapiiist" and "Be carefuuuul" (I think that's what he said?). Quite distinctive. He naturally sounds quite worked up but I doubt his speech patterns would be remarkably different if speaking normally.

I'm in South Africa Sandia but unfortunately things don't look very positive here at the moment. I'm actually considering leaving, very sad! I'm was born in SA but my father is English so I have British citizenship so I'm considering the U.K.

I would love to go back to the States! I have a great affinity for America and Americans. However I'm a lawyer and our legal systems are very different. I would have to study again. Nnnnnnoooooooo!!! :-)

[jason77]

I believe there is a good possibility that the (ear) was the Visalia ransacker. If he is why did he try to kidnap Claude Snellings daughter and kill Claude. Did he personally know them? It seems odd that with over 100 incidents regarding him why change his actions at that one incident. All the others he just trashed the house. Very odd!

[zforce]

Oct 24, 2013 4:53:34 GMT jason77 said:

I believe there is a good possibility that the (ear) was the Visalia ransacker. If he is why did he try to kidnap Claude Snellings daughter and kill Claude. Did he personally know them? It seems odd that with over 100 incidents regarding him why change his actions at that one incident. All the others he just trashed the house. Very odd!

Uhh...read more threads.

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

Oct 24, 2013 4:53:34 GMT jason77 said:

I believe there is a good possibility that the (ear) was the Visalia ransacker. If he is why did he try to kidnap Claude Snellings daughter and kill Claude. Did he personally know them? It seems odd that with over 100 incidents regarding him why change his actions at that one incident. All the others he just trashed the house. Very odd!

That really is a puzzle Jason.  Ransacking to kidnapping.  There is the possibility of two ransackers.  There is the cases of Donna Richmond and Jennifer Armour.  Recently some discussion on the board about a "possible" connection to the Eva Taylor murder in Goleta and the deescalation of violence to only ransacking in Visalia.  Lots of puzzles in this case.  Lots of unanswered questions. 

[danmiami]

Hi Sandia,

Yeah much speculation about if, who, where and when? Let me say I understand why those on the board ask the questions. This case has so many twists and turns. There is the Chinese knot that was used on the Smiths. The burnt matches at The Witthuhn home and another crime scene. The paint flakes. There are so many possibilities about that if one were to speculate about everything as to the reasons why as Guessting put it "You would go crazy!" He, Redding , yourself among others have been on the blog discussing this case much longer than have . As a result I can only imagine the number of scenarios, the back and forth as to the facts and their purported implications.

The approach I have taken which may or may not be the right path was to identify distinct and relevant information when viewed as a whole lead one to conclude with reasonable certainty(not absolute mind you) that if it was not him then the statistical probability of it being someone would be very high. Now the problem with my and others conclusions is that we don't have the accurate information readily available as LE. For example, if we determine that VR who stacked dishes at the door to alert him if the home owner arrived then what are the chances that just 4 hours north(by car) that a cat burglar rapist starts when VR stops offending forever in Visalia? In addition he just happened to stack dishes on the husband's back to alert himself not unlike Visalia. Again it is not an absolute certainty however what are the probabilities that it isn't? Now rape is quite a step up from ransacking and likewise so is rape to murder! But we do know he evolved to the latter with absolute certainty. So is not safe to assume he probably could go from ransacking to rape? Therefore based on the information I have seen (which may or may not be credible) the chances of VR not being EAR is low. However, maybe the dishes weren't part of the Visalia crimes? See that is where accurate information is very essential in this case. Arch is not on this blog but he believes the crimes are not related. As do some in LE. How many of those in LE did not believe that The Smith crime was not related to Orange County? Just food for thought. Why in MM's article does the GSK profile include a "high pitch voiced" individual and Officer McGowen described VR as having a "high pitched voice"? Does she already infer VR is EAR ? Or did someone in Sacramento hear his voice? Again another coincidence?

With the Taylor murder it is a little bit farther of a leap that it was a linked crime. Question is we know GSK prefers bludgeoning in killing his victims. He also left valuables behind. Goleta continues to be a hotspot for this guy again and again. We know he revisited Goleta for sure due to time between the first aborted attack (Oct 1979) and the Domingo/Sanchez murder (July 1981). Multiple attacks in Goleta. Anyone have the violent crime statistics for Goleta in the 1970s? Added to this the MO similarities of taking souvenirs and leaving Ms Taylor's diamond ring behind. I am fairly certain if it was him he did not do it for the purpose of rape. This does not fit all that he would rape an elderly woman. But Just for the plain sake of an argument how much anger and hate must an individual have which compels one to repeatedly beat their victims over the heads? Goleta is a small town to begin with. But geographically is her residence near both the aborted attacks years later and Dr Offerman's condo? Because we know the latter two were less than a mile apart.

One can speculate all day as to why. But if the Taylor murder is linked then we can place him in Goleta very early on in the sequence of events. The trip to Visalia as Redding mentioned just two days later meant he possibly went back to attend class and then another ransacking incident. The interesting tidbit was there were no ransackings in Visalia the day she was murdered. No way for Larry Pool to say for certain that this was the work of our guy. However he did believe that the writing on the back of the map said "Come from Snelling". We all know where that map was found. Wow just a baffling case!