Is VR and EAR the same person, by GoBears

[zforce]

Oct 15, 2013 22:11:58 GMT Agent99 aka Sandia said:

Oct 15, 2013 21:17:14 GMT jkearns said:

many ear sitings were not under best circumstances lighting etc  even VR shot the cop i assume its darker thats why he had a flashlight also difference in weight 20-30 lbs not hard to lose for a young man with all the walking bikeriding knowing he needs to be in shape to be able to escape even doughboy in visalia got over that fence quick ear probably worked out enough to maintain his weight   speed agility

I must say though that Officer McGowen is the one who contributed to the sketch, was confident in the sketch being accurate and even felt he knew who the perp. was.  However, later in life he seemed to change his mind, which confuses me completely.  So confusing conflict #1

dengas is really the Visalia expert and zforce and The badge are also really familiar ,with Visalia.  If I'm not mistaken, TheBadge and zforce do not believe the VR to be the EAR and Officer Brett McGowen, the son of Officer Wm. McGowen does not believe them to be the same and neither does Arch, whom I respect completely.   LE used to not believe it either, but now days they do believe it.  conflict #2

Another confusing thing is the two different opinions by Professor Snelling on the age.  On a previous occasion,  if I have this right, he chased away an intruder that he said was just a kid.  Then later he said he was much older.  Without looking that up, I'm trying to remember if he said 20's 30's?  No time to look up but main idea was much older. conflict #3

Isn't that also what McGowen said, he didn't want to shoot because he was just a kid?  (saying comes to mind:  "No good deed goes unpunished"  because McGowen was such a good man, he almost died for it.)

One additional point that seems to stand out to me is the way the VR fell back and shot at Officer McGowen, it reminds me of how the EAR shot Rodney Miller, the 18 year old that chased the EAR.

I need to try to get time to organize my messy notes so I can find this info easily when my deceased brain cells fail me.

TheBadge and I both would probably reserve judgement on whether they're one and the same, but we both definitely feel they should be investigated separately.

We're convinced LE needs to approach the VR case by first trying to find the common male aquantainces of both the Snelling/Ward girls. VR demonstrated that he was obsessed with them more so than the other female targets, and we know for a fact he knew Beth by name. So far I haven't found any suspects who fit the bill. It's been tough to find any connection between the girls other than we believe they both attended Mt Whitney High School, along with Jennifer Armour, during both the 1973 and 1974 school years.

Not speaking for TheBadge, but I personally believe VR lived, or stayed frequently, at a home west of Mooney Blvd and north of Tulare Avenue.

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

Oct 17, 2013 5:00:09 GMT jkearns said:

so then your contacts friend with the dog was the one who bought the rose

Yes, I guess the dog took off down the street and came back stabbed.  I guess the owner of the dog ( initials GT) possibly didn't even know which yard he ran into at the time, I'm not sure but when he said the dog took off down the street, I get a different mental picture in my mind now with that information.  Previously I thought the dog ran into the yard they were in front of.  So when the dog came back from down the street, bleeding badly, guts hanging out, he was not concerned with running down the street and looking into yards but was concerned with saving his dog.  The owner of the dog, G.T. is deceased.  Apparetly G.T. didn't realize until just a few years ago that it was his dog in question (remember this is not the 3-toed dog).  He came forward a few years ago.  As a matter of fact it was probably at least a year ago, maybe two, that Inv. Pool told me  that the dog's owner was located and cleared. So that mystery has been cleared up AFTER the book came out.

[lepke]

Oct 17, 2013 4:01:35 GMT Agent99 aka Sandia said:

Oct 16, 2013 22:41:00 GMT lepke said:

Reminds me of Breaking Amish...

Lepke, you usually make me laugh so hard, that I found myself laughing, and then realized, wait, I don't know what you are talking about.  Breaking Amish?  I don't watch that program and I'm surprised you have that in London.  Well, anyway, I don't get it. 

Breaking Amish was an American TV show that was shown in England, where a few young people who have been raised Amish, are at a stage of their lives where they are deciding whether they want to remain Amish. They come to New York, and like your mother, some find it very overwhelming, as they have been raised in the countryside, and are not used to such an environment.

[lepke]

Oct 17, 2013 4:49:30 GMT rocker said:

Oct 17, 2013 4:01:35 GMT Agent99 aka Sandia said:

Lepke, you usually make me laugh so hard, that I found myself laughing, and then realized, wait, I don't know what you are talking about.  Breaking Amish?  I don't watch that program and I'm surprised you have that in London.  Well, anyway, I don't get it. 

Lepke should submit a request for Minister of Pavlov Effect...

That would make you my dogs, which was never my suggestion...

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

Oct 17, 2013 6:56:56 GMT zforce said:

Oct 15, 2013 22:11:58 GMT Agent99 aka Sandia said:

I must say though that Officer McGowen is the one who contributed to the sketch, was confident in the sketch being accurate and even felt he knew who the perp. was.  However, later in life he seemed to change his mind, which confuses me completely.  So confusing conflict #1

dengas is really the Visalia expert and zforce and The badge are also really familiar ,with Visalia.  If I'm not mistaken, TheBadge and zforce do not believe the VR to be the EAR and Officer Brett McGowen, the son of Officer Wm. McGowen does not believe them to be the same and neither does Arch, whom I respect completely.   LE used to not believe it either, but now days they do believe it.  conflict #2

Another confusing thing is the two different opinions by Professor Snelling on the age.  On a previous occasion,  if I have this right, he chased away an intruder that he said was just a kid.  Then later he said he was much older.  Without looking that up, I'm trying to remember if he said 20's 30's?  No time to look up but main idea was much older. conflict #3

Isn't that also what McGowen said, he didn't want to shoot because he was just a kid?  (saying comes to mind:  "No good deed goes unpunished"  because McGowen was such a good man, he almost died for it.)

One additional point that seems to stand out to me is the way the VR fell back and shot at Officer McGowen, it reminds me of how the EAR shot Rodney Miller, the 18 year old that chased the EAR.

I need to try to get time to organize my messy notes so I can find this info easily when my deceased brain cells fail me.

TheBadge and I both would probably reserve judgement on whether they're one and the same, but we both definitely feel they should be investigated separately.

We're convinced LE needs to approach the VR case by first trying to find the common male aquantainces of both the Snelling/Ward girls. VR demonstrated that he was obsessed with them more so than the other female targets, and we know for a fact he knew Beth by name. So far I haven't found any suspects who fit the bill. It's been tough to find any connection between the girls other than we believe they both attended Mt Whitney High School, along with Jennifer Armour, during both the 1973 and 1974 school years.

Not speaking for TheBadge, but I personally believe VR lived, or stayed frequently, at a home west of Mooney Blvd and north of Tulare Avenue.

My memory!  was it you or dengas that said some poi occassionally was forced by his parents to attend the same church the Snellings.  Could that be a potential connection between the Ward girl and Beth?.   Was it someone with the initials M.S. and if so was he cleared as being the VR?  Do you know zforce or guessting.  I can't remember.

[lepke]

Oct 17, 2013 5:21:50 GMT Agent99 aka Sandia said:

Oct 17, 2013 5:04:49 GMT jkearns said:

if your contacts friend was walking his dog as reported he didnt hear the dog yelp or when he seen the wound go in the backyard to see how it happened??

I'll ask him. I don't know.  What was reported was the dog came out badly injured, so I imagine that is all the guy was thinking of, helping his dog, saving his dog. 

Apart from anything else, stabbing someone's dog gives them a more immediate concern than looking for the person wot dunnit.

[dengas]

Oct 17, 2013 8:47:10 GMT Agent99 aka Sandia said:

Oct 17, 2013 6:56:56 GMT zforce said:

TheBadge and I both would probably reserve judgement on whether they're one and the same, but we both definitely feel they should be investigated separately.

We're convinced LE needs to approach the VR case by first trying to find the common male aquantainces of both the Snelling/Ward girls. VR demonstrated that he was obsessed with them more so than the other female targets, and we know for a fact he knew Beth by name. So far I haven't found any suspects who fit the bill. It's been tough to find any connection between the girls other than we believe they both attended Mt Whitney High School, along with Jennifer Armour, during both the 1973 and 1974 school years.

Not speaking for TheBadge, but I personally believe VR lived, or stayed frequently, at a home west of Mooney Blvd and north of Tulare Avenue.

My memory!  was it you or dengas that said some poi occassionally was forced by his parents to attend the same church the Snellings.  Could that be a potential connection between the Ward girl and Beth?.   Was it someone with the initials M.S. and if so was he cleared as being the VR?  Do you know zforce or guessting.  I can't remember.

[dengas]

Mark S. Was in prison for a 1983 murder of Julie Wilson. Both he and Rodney B. Were cleared as far as EAR, but not VR. Since I am not LE, I don't know whether there is any evidence in the VR-ings with which to clear them!

[dengas]

However, both were known by LE. Cody Woods was convinced MS was the VR as was Sgt. Vaughn. I don't know Vaugh's current position on the VR, but he worked on it for YEARS after his retirement.

[dengas]

Also, Mark's family attended First Baptist Church as did the Snelling's. I don't know about Jennifer, but her picture wasn't in the church directory, nor was Mark's. Mark's picture was also NEVER in the Mt. Whitney yearbooks. I have wondered if sociopaths have an aversion to having their picture taken. When Woods was investigating the Wilson murder, he said that they found very very few pictures of him in the family pictures.

[dengas]

ALSO, yes, FBC could have been the link between Ward and Snelling families, but the Ward girl was a few years older than Beth. MS, by the way, and the Ward girl were a dysfunctional couple around the time of the Wilson murder. Ironic.

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

Oct 17, 2013 16:04:20 GMT @dengas said:

ALSO, yes, FBC could have been the link between Ward and Snelling families, but the Ward girl was a few years older than Beth. MS, by the way, and the Ward girl were a dysfunctional couple around the time of the Wilson murder. Ironic.

Thank you dengas,  I had meant to ask YOU and zforce above and typed guessting instead.  I know you are the resident expert in Visalia.  It would be so good to clear that all up.  I heard that there were definitely fingerprints in Visalia.  The trouble is I don't remember where I heard it but I am sure it was from a good source.  If that were the case though it would seem that Mark could definitely be ID'd or cleared.  So from your knowledge, are there fingerprints?

[dengas]

They took many prints, but I don't know if they were connected from the various ransackings houses. Also, there MUST have been something to test for DNA, because I remember reading one small newspaper article where they had sent something off to the lab for DNA testing, but short of going down to the library and reading the microfilmed newspapers, I don't know when the article was written.

[dengas]

Definitely not the expert on VR. I only have what several others have, plus knowledge of the physical layout of Visalia. I also have access to yearbooks, and recently contacted COS regarding alumni records, but they have been negligent in following through with my request. I have spoken to Salazar, but I don't even know if he and Diaz are still working on cold cases. I heard last week that Steve Lampe is not with VPD anymore.

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

Oct 17, 2013 17:45:44 GMT @dengas said:

Definitely not the expert on VR. I only have what several others have, plus knowledge of the physical layout of Visalia. I also have access to yearbooks, and recently contacted COS regarding alumni records, but they have been negligent in following through with my request. I have spoken to Salazar, but I don't even know if he and Diaz are still working on cold cases. I heard last week that Steve Lampe is not with VPD anymore.

Well you know so much more about Visalia than I do and the various characters involved etc.  I think you know more that most of us by far. 

However, in my notes I have a strongly worded note that there definitely are fingerprints for the VR.  I neglected to write who told me that and I think I know and if it is from who I think it is, that I would put a lot of credence into that note.  But I can't say for a fact who told me, so it's going to have to be questionable information, unless someone else can verify that.  How about LFL, I would think that he would know?