Zodiac Killer and/or Ted kaczynski Compared to EAR/ONS/GSK

[Deleted]

Feb 14, 2019 6:18:45 GMT samrye said:

I always felt that connecting Zodiac to EARONS was flimsy. EARONS seemed like a sexual sadist who enjoyed inflicting pain on people and Zodiac was basically a terrorist who killed people for media attention.

Ted K is still one of my favourite suspects as Zodiac. I think an issue that a lot of people have with the theory is to do with proponents of the theory presenting, among the compelling evidence, bits and pieces that feel like a stretch. I don't put much weight into Ted K's name being embedded into the Zodiac letters, it's not that he wouldn't have done such a thing, it's that conceivably any suspect can be implicated through those means alone. What I do find interesting is his frequent unannounced trips to the west from 1969-71, his epiphany in 1966 (where he finally felt that he could, and would, actually kill someone), the items that were found at his cabin (nothing concrete that connects to Zodiac, but it has stuff that you'd expect Zodiac to own), items that specifically weren't found in his cabin (e.g. his graduation gowns, which could have been used to create the Lake Berryessa hood, journal writings prior to the early-1970s, etc.) If you couple those with the fact that Ted K is a known serial killer whose spree somewhat mirrored the Zodiac's spree, the fact that Ted Kaczynski was in the Bay Area at the time of the LHR and BRS murders, the fact that Ted K wrote his letter of resignation only a month after the LHR murders and the fact that he finally resigned a few days before the BRS murder and subsequent Zodiac letter spree, he makes as much of a compelling suspect as ALA. My only issue is that he wasn't a Vallejo native, which many sleuths feel that Zodiac had to be, but all of these discrepancies seem to be explainable.

I just hope they can get the Zodiac's DNA, or at least the DNA from CJB's murder, then we might have a conclusive answer.

The Zodiac just murdered a few people but used manipulation of the press to terrorize the greater population. When he said he might follow school buses and kill a few kids as the got of the bus, mothers throughout the Bay Area were scared to death. Ted K as Unabomber also murdered just a few people but terrorized the greater population by manipulating the press. Specifically he threatened to blow up airplanes, and the airlines, FBI, etc. took this threat seriously.

According to AK Wilks, they still have not taken Ted's DNA.

I think at the highest levels of LE, they know Ted was the Zodiac and for various reasons (reason #1 being he's already locked up for life) they are just not wanting to re-open that old can of worms.

[walter]

Feb 14, 2019 7:11:41 GMT @endoftheworld said:

Feb 14, 2019 6:18:45 GMT samrye said:

I always felt that connecting Zodiac to EARONS was flimsy. EARONS seemed like a sexual sadist who enjoyed inflicting pain on people and Zodiac was basically a terrorist who killed people for media attention.

Ted K is still one of my favourite suspects as Zodiac. I think an issue that a lot of people have with the theory is to do with proponents of the theory presenting, among the compelling evidence, bits and pieces that feel like a stretch. I don't put much weight into Ted K's name being embedded into the Zodiac letters, it's not that he wouldn't have done such a thing, it's that conceivably any suspect can be implicated through those means alone. What I do find interesting is his frequent unannounced trips to the west from 1969-71, his epiphany in 1966 (where he finally felt that he could, and would, actually kill someone), the items that were found at his cabin (nothing concrete that connects to Zodiac, but it has stuff that you'd expect Zodiac to own), items that specifically weren't found in his cabin (e.g. his graduation gowns, which could have been used to create the Lake Berryessa hood, journal writings prior to the early-1970s, etc.) If you couple those with the fact that Ted K is a known serial killer whose spree somewhat mirrored the Zodiac's spree, the fact that Ted Kaczynski was in the Bay Area at the time of the LHR and BRS murders, the fact that Ted K wrote his letter of resignation only a month after the LHR murders and the fact that he finally resigned a few days before the BRS murder and subsequent Zodiac letter spree, he makes as much of a compelling suspect as ALA. My only issue is that he wasn't a Vallejo native, which many sleuths feel that Zodiac had to be, but all of these discrepancies seem to be explainable.

I just hope they can get the Zodiac's DNA, or at least the DNA from CJB's murder, then we might have a conclusive answer.

The Zodiac just murdered a few people but used manipulation of the press to terrorize the greater population. When he said he might follow school buses and kill a few kids as the got of the bus, mothers throughout the Bay Area were scared to death. Ted K as Unabomber also murdered just a few people but terrorized the greater population by manipulating the press. Specifically he threatened to blow up airplanes, and the airlines, FBI, etc. took this threat seriously.

According to AK Wilks, they still have not taken Ted's DNA.

I think at the highest levels of LE, they know Ted was the Zodiac and for various reasons (reason #1 being he's already locked up for life) they are just not wanting to re-open that old can of worms.

They have old DNA on file from TK and have had it for quite some time.  They used it to compare to the saliva under the stamps after his brother identified him and got a hit.  The FBI made a request for a new sample back in 2011 to rule him out of the tylenol killings.

They say "Zodiac fingerprint evidence and expert handwriting analysis ruled out Kaczynski years ago, along with travel records that place Kaczynski away from California on several of the key crime dates." in regards to Zodiac.

They have the fingerprints of both, so they know it's not him.  I am assuming you believe the handwriting experts because that is what links so many Zodiac killings/letters together.  I personally don't but if finger prints rule him out I wouldn't worry about it any further.

That ignores simply looking at their radically different MOs (nothing about them was similar on nearly any level other than they killed people and communicated) and realizing they are not the same person at all.  But finger prints pretty much kills it right there anyway.

[cherylh]

Walter -- I'm just curious --

Is there a typo in the second sentence of your post above, responding to endoftheworld?

Or are you saying that the FBI matched DNA from the Unabomber case to DNA from the Zodiac case?

[deoxyribonucleicacid]

Look at the Flashlight Blinding technique that EARONS / GSK Used

Zodiac did the same thing...

Zodiac is probably a cop or someone with a Military background... That's the first thing that cops do and they taught us this in the military

Even David Berkowitz (Son of Sam) had a military background. But that dude was involved with an anarchist occult.

[alexenjie]

I was homebound for 4 days this past weekend plus Monday and Tuesday (Seattle falls apart if we get snow) and I was bored with nothing to do until I stumbled across the Netflix documentary, Manhunt the Unabomber, I watched all 10 episodes one right after the other (it was intense I don't recommend watching this all at one time). On the other hand it was fascinating and very well done.

I think one of the most interesting things was the way they split the story between LE and Ted K's personal struggles as a human being. It was enlightening in all kinds of way from both sides. I am now reading the book that Ted's brother wrote and learning more about him. I'd also like to find a good book from the LE side. If anyone has any recommendations, I would love to hear them.

I've truly never been a true crime follower. I used to read and enjoy Ann Rules books but haven't read anything true crime since her death until I came across Michelle McNamara's book about JJD. I am kind of amazed that I feel so pulled in but so far only to case that are solved. I don't think I am ready to tackle cases that are unresolved for fear of the nightmares.

[Deleted]

Feb 15, 2019 6:15:19 GMT alexenjie said:

I was homebound for 4 days this past weekend plus Monday and Tuesday (Seattle falls apart if we get snow) and I was bored with nothing to do until I stumbled across the Netflix documentary, Manhunt the Unabomber, I watched all 10 episodes one right after the other (it was intense I don't recommend watching this all at one time). On the other hand it was fascinating and very well done.

I think one of the most interesting things was the way they split the story between LE and Ted K's personal struggles as a human being. It was enlightening in all kinds of way from both sides. I am now reading the book that Ted's brother wrote and learning more about him. I'd also like to find a good book from the LE side. If anyone has any recommendations, I would love to hear them.

I've truly never been a true crime follower. I used to read and enjoy Ann Rules books but haven't read anything true crime since her death until I came across Michelle McNamara's book about JJD. I am kind of amazed that I feel so pulled in but so far only to case that are solved. I don't think I am ready to tackle cases that are unresolved for fear of the nightmares.

There is an interesting thin book by a guy named Oswell, where he compares the Unabomber to the Zodiac. He does not say he believes with absolute certainty that Unabomber=Zodiac, but just asks the reader to admit there are strong congruencies.

[walter]

Feb 15, 2019 1:28:34 GMT cherylh said:

Walter -- I'm just curious --

Is there a typo in the second sentence of your post above, responding to endoftheworld?

Or are you saying that the FBI matched DNA from the Unabomber case to DNA from the Zodiac case?

I would never say it's impossible but I looked again and I don't see one.

Oh I see where it wasn't clear. No they matched TK's DNA to the DNA under a stamp the unibomber used to confirm his identity.  He is not the Zodiac Killer.

[cherylh]

Walter -- Thank you! That clears that up!

[samrye]

Feb 15, 2019 19:38:45 GMT walter said:

Feb 15, 2019 1:28:34 GMT cherylh said:

Walter -- I'm just curious --

Is there a typo in the second sentence of your post above, responding to endoftheworld?

Or are you saying that the FBI matched DNA from the Unabomber case to DNA from the Zodiac case?

I would never say it's impossible but I looked again and I don't see one.

Oh I see where it wasn't clear. No they matched TK's DNA to the DNA under a stamp the unibomber used to confirm his identity.  He is not the Zodiac Killer.

One of the many sources, in case anyone is interested: www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1996/05/15/secret-unabomber-number-found-in-cabin-sources-say/b0eb9620-9e01-4968-87fc-3de222d304ed/?utm_term=.e4dcff45dc21 (paragraph 3)

I think the fact that the FBI asked again for a DNA sample from TK in 2011 means that his DNA was collected in 1996, but wasn't stored in a database like CODIS.

On a tangent, I'll just add that I recently found out that David Berkowitz, after a failed knife attack on a girl, decided to start killing using a gun. I think it's just as plausible for the TK as the Zodiac to (after nearly being caught at the Paul Stine scene) decide to kill in a more impersonal way, such as bombing or poisoning.

[Deleted]

Feb 23, 2019 11:43:57 GMT samrye said:

Feb 15, 2019 19:38:45 GMT walter said:

I would never say it's impossible but I looked again and I don't see one.

Oh I see where it wasn't clear. No they matched TK's DNA to the DNA under a stamp the unibomber used to confirm his identity.  He is not the Zodiac Killer.

One of the many sources, in case anyone is interested: www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1996/05/15/secret-unabomber-number-found-in-cabin-sources-say/b0eb9620-9e01-4968-87fc-3de222d304ed/?utm_term=.e4dcff45dc21 (paragraph 3)

I think the fact that the FBI asked again for a DNA sample from TK in 2011 means that his DNA was collected in 1996, but wasn't stored in a database like CODIS.

On a tangent, I'll just add that I recently found out that David Berkowitz, after a failed knife attack on a girl, decided to start killing using a gun. I think it's just as plausible for the TK as the Zodiac to (after nearly being caught at the Paul Stine scene) decide to kill in a more impersonal way, such as bombing or poisoning.

I myself don't work for the FBI; nor do I have FBI connections. However AK Wilks was an attorney and did have FBI connections and he said they never got DNA from Ted Kaczinsky.

I've never seen an announcement where the FBI announced they tested the DNA of Ted K against the stamp DNA. Incidentally, the stamp DNA is not without doubt DNA of the Zodiac, anyway, but it might be.

As far as I know, "walter" is not an FBI agent, and I don't consider "walter" a reputable source. 

Somebody show me a link where the FBI announced they tested the Ted's DNA against the purported Zodiac DNA and I might believe it. I know there is a newspaper article where a reporter said something like that, but he's just a reporter, and they lie a lot.

[walter]

Feb 23, 2019 13:17:24 GMT @endoftheworld said:

Feb 23, 2019 11:43:57 GMT samrye said:

One of the many sources, in case anyone is interested: www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1996/05/15/secret-unabomber-number-found-in-cabin-sources-say/b0eb9620-9e01-4968-87fc-3de222d304ed/?utm_term=.e4dcff45dc21 (paragraph 3)

I think the fact that the FBI asked again for a DNA sample from TK in 2011 means that his DNA was collected in 1996, but wasn't stored in a database like CODIS.

On a tangent, I'll just add that I recently found out that David Berkowitz, after a failed knife attack on a girl, decided to start killing using a gun. I think it's just as plausible for the TK as the Zodiac to (after nearly being caught at the Paul Stine scene) decide to kill in a more impersonal way, such as bombing or poisoning.

I myself don't work for the FBI; nor do I have FBI connections. However AK Wilks was an attorney and did have FBI connections and he said they never got DNA from Ted Kaczinsky.

I've never seen an announcement where the FBI announced they tested the DNA of Ted K against the stamp DNA. Incidentally, the stamp DNA is not without doubt DNA of the Zodiac, anyway, but it might be.

As far as I know, "walter" is not an FBI agent, and I don't consider "walter" a reputable source. 

Somebody show me a link where the FBI announced they tested the Ted's DNA against the purported Zodiac DNA and I might believe it. I know there is a newspaper article where a reporter said something like that, but he's just a reporter, and they lie a lot.

I mean the multiple sourced links to actual news sites with actual quotes should be enough. I don’t think anyone is using me as a source at all so that’s a pretty fragile straw man you’ve erected.

You can still have whatever complicated conspiracy you want that flies in the face of factual evidence. No one is saying you can’t. But the evidence and sources are there and no has ever claimed I’m the source.

But I also know that people become so invested in their own theories and beliefs that they often can’t alter them once disproven. It’s pointless now because all the info saying your theory is incorrect is out there but if all you can respond with is ‘nu uh’ then you will never change your mind. They could invite you in to physically perform a dna test in front of you and you’d find a way to say you don’t believe it.

[Any of N]

Back in the old days, long long ago, in the early Spring of 2018, I used to think the signs were strong that LE had done the following:

• Looked hard at cops and ex-cops, both during the crimes and after the fact, as part of their cold case investigations.
• Made use of all the popularly discussed DNA approaches, including uploading data to GEDmatch.
• Released every facial composite that could possibly be relevant to the case.
  

There were plenty of statements and documents to cite. Even if they weren't explicit the meaning was clear enough. LE had been there and done that. Or so it seemed.

Surely if there were a cop near Sacramento (during the EAR spree) who was thrown off the force and who threatened the chief in retaliation, that guy was put on the radar for other possible crimes. Especially if he were convicted of shoplifting and had later stalked the chief at the chief's own home.

No, nope, nada. None of those conclusions were accurate. The trust that seemed so sensible to place in LE was sadly misplaced.

Well, never again. endoftheworld has a point. Until they tell you explicitly that Ted Kaczynski's DNA was compared to the Zodiac's possible DNA samples, don't assume that it's true, even if there are strong hints in the papers. It doesn't matter if you think Kaczynski is a strong candidate for being Zodiac or not.

Anyway, I thought the original Zodiac DNA testing was off the table because it was obtained from the front of the stamp. I'll give the Kaczynski-as-Zodiac people this, though -- the handwriting match is as good as it gets for a POI.