Map -- New theory, possibly

[brawlpups]

Mar 15, 2018 11:48:18 GMT mark said:

Got it. As I understand, Saund proposed an area just east of the 680. Sycamore an area just west of the 680. The playing field in your image is labeled "Osage Park" and it's south.
Btw, yesterday I thoroughly read the theory by Tom Box, and he seems to have a point too. He points a totally different area, Laguna West.
What puzzles me is... each of these four locations are too different from the map, so the map possibly hasn't a "prowling planning" purpose. As Tom Box theorizes, maybe it has a totally unrelated purpose (homework assignment). This is a real possibiliy we must take into account.
Nonetheless, it shows EAR possibly had connections to construction business or courses.

I think the interesting questions, for me, is to get some real estate maps (which is what it was traced from).
You can draw your own in an application like Java Open Streetmap Editor which has great image layers and drawing tools. Or perhaps OpenStreetMap may have already done the work for you as the do building outlines. You draw in lot boundaries either from municipal plat maps or you can look at lod border such as ditches and hedgerows and do it that way. It could be that EAR did not undertand that the park was not a water feature when he copied the map, it's not clear that it is a water feature for sure, I think. Historic imagery from before the area was developed show no water features for that town and it is very dry. Used to be mostly tree orchards.

The house shapes would not change much so get a match on house and lot shapes.

I think he was known to scoped out real estate showings and offices so there is the source.

Likely as a construction exterior commercial painting sub contractor he worked with developers and also very possibly real estate managers. They would have the maps for him to have copied. So some of his planning tied into his normal identity.

I think the fact that the map was found so close to Osage Park and that the park like feature looks too much like Osage Park to be random I think the punishment map is of this area. The simplest explanation often being the truest.

Now to search for a real estate map...

[brawlpups]

Mar 15, 2018 11:48:18 GMT mark said:

Mar 15, 2018 2:09:11 GMT brawlpups said:

Btw, yesterday I thoroughly read the theory by Tom Box, and he seems to have a point too. He points a totally different area, Laguna West.

Do you have an area name for Laguna West? when I seach for it on maps it comes up with Elk Grove and the like.

I have found an online property viewer for Danville at:
property map viewer

And data download for CAD and Geo Info System mapping at:
Data Download


If your are researching property and real estate maps like the punishment map then you will find it valuable I think.

Here is a sample of the Diablo Rd area:

[mark]

Mar 16, 2018 21:03:04 GMT brawlpups said:

Mar 15, 2018 11:48:18 GMT mark said:

Do you have an area name for Laguna West? when I seach for it on maps it comes up with Elk Grove and the like.

I have found an online property viewer for Danville at:
property map viewer

And data download for CAD and Geo Info System mapping at:
Data Download


If your are researching property and real estate maps like the punishment map then you will find it valuable I think.

Here is a sample of the Diablo Rd area:
View Attachment

Thanks Brawlpups for the tools. I'm not really researching the area, I was just throwing out there some thoughts... but you never know
As for the Laguna West location, yes, it is exactly north of Elk Grove Blvd, south of Laguna Blvd, where you see those strange, oblique isles in the lake/lakes. There, according to user Tom Box, is where once was located the lake depicted on EAR map.

[brawlpups]

Mar 16, 2018 21:15:06 GMT mark said:

Mar 16, 2018 21:03:04 GMT brawlpups said:

Thanks Brawlpups for the tools. I'm not really researching the area, I was just throwing out there some thoughts... but you never know
As for the Laguna West location, yes, it is exactly north of Elk Grove Blvd, south of Laguna Blvd, where you see those strange, oblique isles in the lake/lakes. There, according to user Tom Box, is where once was located the lake depicted on EAR map.

I found the area and two points:
Historic pre developement USGS topo shows no water bodies.
There are no data points for EAR activity at that location.
Haven't heard of Tom Box so will look into it.

[mark]

Mar 16, 2018 23:03:20 GMT brawlpups said:

Mar 16, 2018 21:15:06 GMT mark said:

Thanks Brawlpups for the tools. I'm not really researching the area, I was just throwing out there some thoughts... but you never know
As for the Laguna West location, yes, it is exactly north of Elk Grove Blvd, south of Laguna Blvd, where you see those strange, oblique isles in the lake/lakes. There, according to user Tom Box, is where once was located the lake depicted on EAR map.

I found the area and two points:
Historic pre developement USGS topo shows no water bodies.
There are no data points for EAR activity at that location.
Haven't heard of Tom Box so will look into it.

earonsgsk.proboards.com/thread/3023/ear-map-new-theory

[cleopatra]

Jan 30, 2018 22:30:33 GMT woofytreats said:

Sycamore,

I don't know if you've ever seen the following blurb that Paul Holes wrote about the map...but I find it interesting. I'm not saying that Holes is definitively correct, but the noted details are interesting versus matching the diagram/map to Danville, the 680 corridor and San Ramon Valley/Sycamore Valley specifically:


"What you remember me saying about the Stockton victim isn’t quite right – she worked for a fairly large Stockton developer and basically ran that office and did the marketing. She was the right-hand person for the owners. She absolutely dissected that diagram as did one of her bosses. He flat out told me the person who drew it was from the industry. She had gone down to Santa Barbara with her boss to meet with Berkus but couldn’t remember if it was before or after her attack. Ten days before her attack she had gone to Newport Beach for a Housing Marketing conference.

Here’s some detail about the diagram but I am not going to divulge everything I have found out about it at this time. A retired UC Davis Landscape Architect professor and retired Davis city engineer pointed out features in the diagram that were only present in Village Homes at that time. Everybody can Google Village Homes and see what was unique about it. I’ve interviewed the developer of Village Homes who agreed with that assessment.


The Davis engineer did call it “Cheap Acres” because of the lack of underground storm drains etc so it was cheap for the developer to put in.
A retired engineer for Siegfried Engineering out of Stockton who helped engineer all the lakes in the Stockton area opined the artist of the diagram demonstrated familiarity with Stockton building codes.

A renowned urban planner out of Sac that helped design many areas around NCal indicated the only freeway off ramp that matched what is drawn in the diagram is the I680–Stone Valley off-ramp here in the Danville area. It is a non-standard CalTrans off-ramp that would only be used if the geography in the area or pre-existing roads dictated that design.

I believe the freeway interchange in the diagram was possibly squeezed in by the artist at a later date or was the last feature drawn based on assessing the road width changes from the freeway to the main arterial.

Fundamentally the diagram appears to contain a combination of features found in Stockton and Davis that were areas the EAR had attacked prior to the diagram being found and there is evidence that it was a collaboration between two individuals probably during a brainstorming session (or sales pitch to an investor etc).

This diagram was a creation – it was not a drawing of a subdivision that existed at that time nor does a subdivision exist today as drawn. Though it possesses a lot of detail – especially in the commercial area - it is more of a bubble diagram than a site plan.

It could have been a basis for something that ultimately was built but likely that subdivision looks substantially different than the diagram."

[cleopatra]

Or, it could have been a homework assignment of an engineering or land surveyor student.

[sycamore]

Mar 16, 2018 23:30:28 GMT cleopatra said:

Jan 30, 2018 22:30:33 GMT woofytreats said:

Sycamore,

I don't know if you've ever seen the following blurb that Paul Holes wrote about the map...but I find it interesting. I'm not saying that Holes is definitively correct, but the noted details are interesting versus matching the diagram/map to Danville, the 680 corridor and San Ramon Valley/Sycamore Valley specifically:


"What you remember me saying about the Stockton victim isn’t quite right – she worked for a fairly large Stockton developer and basically ran that office and did the marketing. She was the right-hand person for the owners. She absolutely dissected that diagram as did one of her bosses. He flat out told me the person who drew it was from the industry. She had gone down to Santa Barbara with her boss to meet with Berkus but couldn’t remember if it was before or after her attack. Ten days before her attack she had gone to Newport Beach for a Housing Marketing conference.

Here’s some detail about the diagram but I am not going to divulge everything I have found out about it at this time. A retired UC Davis Landscape Architect professor and retired Davis city engineer pointed out features in the diagram that were only present in Village Homes at that time. Everybody can Google Village Homes and see what was unique about it. I’ve interviewed the developer of Village Homes who agreed with that assessment.


The Davis engineer did call it “Cheap Acres” because of the lack of underground storm drains etc so it was cheap for the developer to put in.
A retired engineer for Siegfried Engineering out of Stockton who helped engineer all the lakes in the Stockton area opined the artist of the diagram demonstrated familiarity with Stockton building codes.

A renowned urban planner out of Sac that helped design many areas around NCal indicated the only freeway off ramp that matched what is drawn in the diagram is the I680–Stone Valley off-ramp here in the Danville area. It is a non-standard CalTrans off-ramp that would only be used if the geography in the area or pre-existing roads dictated that design.

I believe the freeway interchange in the diagram was possibly squeezed in by the artist at a later date or was the last feature drawn based on assessing the road width changes from the freeway to the main arterial.

Fundamentally the diagram appears to contain a combination of features found in Stockton and Davis that were areas the EAR had attacked prior to the diagram being found and there is evidence that it was a collaboration between two individuals probably during a brainstorming session (or sales pitch to an investor etc).

This diagram was a creation – it was not a drawing of a subdivision that existed at that time nor does a subdivision exist today as drawn. Though it possesses a lot of detail – especially in the commercial area - it is more of a bubble diagram than a site plan.

It could have been a basis for something that ultimately was built but likely that subdivision looks substantially different than the diagram."

i believe everyone has read the map upside down because of the writing, (lake pope?) if you look at the power poles shown then you have the map up the right way.. as a northerly aspect and most features are in the righ spots, . that freeway loop is the south bound off ramp to take you to sycamore valley. i will agree with most of paul holes findings because they fit within what i am banging on about.. my belief the main object is the livery and mercantile shopping center because of the detail. also the estate with remington loop was just being constructed.

Paula Holes "This diagram was a creation – it was not a drawing of a subdivision that existed at that time nor does a subdivision exist today as drawn. Though it possesses a lot of detail – especially in the commercial area - it is more of a bubble diagram than a site plan.
It could have been a basis for something that ultimately was built but likely that subdivision looks substantially different than the diagram"

(its not really that much different today"  just turn your map 180. 

[brawlpups]

Mar 16, 2018 23:10:25 GMT mark said:

Mar 16, 2018 23:03:20 GMT brawlpups said:

I found the area and two points:
Historic pre developement USGS topo shows no water bodies.
There are no data points for EAR activity at that location.
Haven't heard of Tom Box so will look into it.

earonsgsk.proboards.com/thread/3023/ear-map-new-theory

My points still hold.
What he indicates as a water body is not well georeferenced for analysis but...
The area had no permanent water feature before it was developed. There are some water lines on a topt but indicate streams not waterbodies. I would concede with a low likelyhood it may be a wetland. I can always upload the Topo.
PS: I have also worked as a toplogical image analyst and I would not add a waterbody based on the available resources.
No offenses at the location but there is to the north and there is a water body to the north but not in that immediate area.

[sycamore]

I believe everyone has read the map upside down because of the writing, (lake pope?) if you look at the power poles shown (P) then you have the map up the right way.. as a northerly aspect and most features are in the right spots, . that freeway loop is the south bound off ramp to take you to sycamore valley. i will agree with most of Paul Holes findings because they fit within what i am banging on about.. my belief the main object is the livery and mercantile shopping center because of the detail. also the estate with Remington loop was just being constructed.

Paula Holes "This diagram was a creation – it was not a drawing of a subdivision that existed at that time nor does a subdivision exist today as drawn. Though it possesses a lot of detail – especially in the commercial area - it is more of a bubble diagram than a site plan.
It could have been a basis for something that ultimately was built but likely that subdivision looks substantially different than the diagram"

(its not really that much different today" just turn your map 180.

[andromeda]

Jan 28, 2018 7:50:59 GMT Cagney said:

After many years, 2-3..  And watching the 'zodiac' program on TV.  Was it ever brought up that maybe the map had a few different locations within it?  What I mean is, maybe the lake is located in one city, while the housing in another, and the building-freeways are still a different location?  Just a thought...

Hey! I thought something Similar!

[andromeda]

Ok, either the interstate in the map is north south or east West.

Since the ramp is an off-ramp that side is on the right. So either the orientation is

N

W. E


S



Or




E

N. S


W

Right? This assuming the map is of a real place.

Edit, lay out sucks. Just picture the map as we normally look at it and then apply the two options.

[sycamore]

Mar 17, 2018 10:16:25 GMT andromeda said:

Ok, either the interstate in the map is north south or east West.

Since the ramp is an off-ramp that side is on the right. So either the orientation is

N

W. E


S



Or




E

N. S


W

Right? This assuming the map is of a real place.

Edit, lay out sucks. Just picture the map as we normally look at it and then apply the two options.

Attachments:

[sycamore]

Attachment Deletedok i turned danville upside down..

[andromeda]

Mar 17, 2018 10:48:36 GMT sycamore said:

Mar 17, 2018 10:16:25 GMT andromeda said:

Ok, either the interstate in the map is north south or east West.

Since the ramp is an off-ramp that side is on the right. So either the orientation is

N

W. E


S



Or




E

N. S


W

Right? This assuming the map is of a real place.

Edit, lay out sucks. Just picture the map as we normally look at it and then apply the two options.

Sorry it doesn't match with the frontage Road if that's the correct name and the 90 degrees Road which plus interstate creates that delta shaped thing.