The Woofy Mystery And Controversy

[redding]

Oct 4, 2013 15:24:53 GMT lepke said:

Oct 4, 2013 15:00:35 GMT portofleith said:

I think there is a valid reason that Michelle McNamara wrote about the myth of Woofy. There is no evidence that the dog at Offerman Manning was a three toed German Shepherd. We all need to remember that one group of individuals in Sacramento were looked at very carefully- military dog handlers. EAR was a dog whisperer and a dog abuser. I think Lepke pointed out in another thread about mailmen who enter people's yards. I had a husky who looked ferocious and our mailman always brought him a dog biscuit and they became friends.

EAR/GSK was entering homes several times before the actual attack. He most likely befriended dogs. Recall that he entered one bedroom in Sacramento holding the family's Pit Bull. I have not seen anything that suggests the same dog was used in all of the Goleta crimes. The dog stabbing that occurred right before the Queen Anne attack of Oct 1979, could very well have occurred because the dog entered a yard that GSK was surveilling and he attempted to dispatch the dog just as he would have Rodney Miller.

The same logic may apply to the dog blood found the morning after the murders of Domingo Sanchez. I know how my dog reacts to coyote kills and it is not preposterous to think that a neighborhood dog(or a feral dog) would have become agitated by the murders and GSK stabbed the dog if it was interfering with his movements. That might explain the blood on the sidewalk and the bridge.

There were dog prints found in the vicinity of Offerman Manning on the patio and by a fence that had a tennis shoe skidmark. Did a dog follow GSK in his wanderings that night?

I never believed that a neighborhood dog was used to guard a pot farm(which now produces lovely organic vegetables, by the way). The myth of the white three toed German Shepherd was created by a board poster.

Which poster came up with the idea of a three toed, white alsation?

I think it was Arch.  I could be wrong, but I seem to remember that the three toed dog posts started with him.

[portofleith]

Oct 4, 2013 15:45:02 GMT redding said:

Oct 4, 2013 15:24:53 GMT lepke said:

Which poster came up with the idea of a three toed, white alsation?

I think it was Arch.  I could be wrong, but I seem to remember that the three toed dog posts started with him.

Just to set the record straight, Arch said the pot farm theory was dubious , at best.  The information was provided by a poster claiming to be a Goleta local who knew Glasby.

Re: Re: The dog
Posted By: SpeakelOfEngrish
Right. JJMCGR had written something indicating no dog was present, so I was simply inquiring as to whether the dog being at Goleta #2 in addition to #3 was merely a factoid. Or if JJMCGR was in error. Or simply observing that the reports to which he had access made no mention of a dog/paw impressions. Or maybe I should get some sleep.

SOE,

As usual, JJ was in error. The dog was present at O/M and S/D. I've heard from two different sources (both unconfirmed) that the dog was located but that no one could connect anyone matching the EAR/ONS' description to the dog.

Version 1 says that the dog was owned by an older couple. Brett Glasby would allegedly "borrow" the dog to use as a sentry while he raided pot farms.


Version 2 says that the dog would get out of the yard and run free through the neighborhood. In that sense, the EAR could have use the dog both as a cover "Hey, Officer, I'm just out walking Woofy (at 3am)" and as a ruse to throw off the investigation.

Both sources have refused to identify the owner of the dog so I cannot follow up and confirm anything. I suppose they are waiting for the owner to pass away so that it is to late to follow up on the information. Also, the information provided by the first source has proven to be dubious at best. Sometimes what he says checks out, sometimes it doesn't.

Que Sera Sera

[redding]

Oct 4, 2013 17:27:52 GMT portofleith said:

Oct 4, 2013 15:45:02 GMT redding said:

I think it was Arch.  I could be wrong, but I seem to remember that the three toed dog posts started with him.

Just to set the record straight, Arch said the pot farm theory was dubious , at best.  The information was provided by a poster claiming to be a Goleta local who knew Glasby.

Re: Re: The dog
Posted By: SpeakelOfEngrish
Right. JJMCGR had written something indicating no dog was present, so I was simply inquiring as to whether the dog being at Goleta #2 in addition to #3 was merely a factoid. Or if JJMCGR was in error. Or simply observing that the reports to which he had access made no mention of a dog/paw impressions. Or maybe I should get some sleep.

SOE,

As usual, JJ was in error. The dog was present at O/M and S/D. I've heard from two different sources (both unconfirmed) that the dog was located but that no one could connect anyone matching the EAR/ONS' description to the dog.

Version 1 says that the dog was owned by an older couple. Brett Glasby would allegedly "borrow" the dog to use as a sentry while he raided pot farms.


Version 2 says that the dog would get out of the yard and run free through the neighborhood. In that sense, the EAR could have use the dog both as a cover "Hey, Officer, I'm just out walking Woofy (at 3am)" and as a ruse to throw off the investigation.

Both sources have refused to identify the owner of the dog so I cannot follow up and confirm anything. I suppose they are waiting for the owner to pass away so that it is to late to follow up on the information. Also, the information provided by the first source has proven to be dubious at best. Sometimes what he says checks out, sometimes it doesn't.

Que Sera Sera

Interesting.  It started as a rumor and over time it came to be accepted as true.  Is any of the information about Brett any better?  For example it is widely accepted that he beat Offerman's janitor...yet he was never charged and convicted so isn't it just a rumor that he beat the janitor?

[portofleith]

Redding:

Brett was charged with beating up one of his acquaintances prior to the pot farm robbery charge and you can view that charge online at SB Superior Court.  He  and a friend were poi's in the burglary of Offerman's office, but never charged, so there is no proof it was him. Glasby was a  petty thief.


Recall Sheriff Kennedy's statement in the Cason series  "I just didn't feel Brett Glasby was good for these," Kennedy said.

We should let Brett Glasby RIP, in my opinion.  

[truthandsoul]

the last two pages of this thread, as it related to the Haskulls Locals and the Glasbys has been moved to a new thread

earonsgsk.proboards.com/thread/271/haskulls-locals

[Deleted]

Oct 2, 2013 2:32:33 GMT debris said:

I just posted in another thread, but am now copying that post here, just because this seems a logical place for it:



I don't mean to muddy the waters here, but I do specifically remember SB LE telling me that there were dog prints found at the Domingo/Sanchez scene. They didn't say three-toed. But we did not own a dog, and LE seemed very confident that my Mom's killer brought the dog. I'm pretty sure that discussion was in 2001.



---Deb

Oh, and I was unaware of the "dog blood at the footbridge" until now.  Puzzling.  

What reason did they give that they were so confident that he brought a dog?

[jigisup]

Oct 4, 2013 15:00:35 GMT portofleith said:

I think there is a valid reason that Michelle McNamara wrote about the myth of Woofy. There is no evidence that the dog at Offerman Manning was a three toed German Shepherd. We all need to remember that one group of individuals in Sacramento were looked at very carefully- military dog handlers. EAR was a dog whisperer and a dog abuser. I think Lepke pointed out in another thread about mailmen who enter people's yards. I had a husky who looked ferocious and our mailman always brought him a dog biscuit and they became friends.

EAR/GSK was entering homes several times before the actual attack. He most likely befriended dogs. Recall that he entered one bedroom in Sacramento holding the family's Pit Bull. I have not seen anything that suggests the same dog was used in all of the Goleta crimes. The dog stabbing that occurred right before the Queen Anne attack of Oct 1979, could very well have occurred because the dog entered a yard that GSK was surveilling and he attempted to dispatch the dog just as he would have Rodney Miller.

The same logic may apply to the dog blood found the morning after the murders of Domingo Sanchez. I know how my dog reacts to coyote kills and it is not preposterous to think that a neighborhood dog(or a feral dog) would have become agitated by the murders and GSK stabbed the dog if it was interfering with his movements. That might explain the blood on the sidewalk and the bridge.

There were dog prints found in the vicinity of Offerman Manning on the patio and by a fence that had a tennis shoe skidmark. Did a dog follow GSK in his wanderings that night?

I never believed that a neighborhood dog was used to guard a pot farm(which now produces lovely organic vegetables, by the way). The myth of the white three toed German Shepherd was created by a board poster.

Thank you for insightful comments. It is easy to become fixated on a three-toed white German Shepherd and miss the bigger picture. Because the EAR-ONS seems to have had a gift handling dogs (as well as being an abuser of them), I would suspect that family/friends who knew/know him would have witnessed his behavior with dogs.

You referred to Fairview Gardens, where they grow organic veggies now. This was the first I had heard that the historic farm was populated with pot growers in the late 1970s -- no surprise there. I wonder if anyone who has lived in Goleta for a long time knows the folks who were there in the Seventies -- maybe they would remember a somewhat short, stocky guy who handled/hurt dogs?  

[portofleith]

Oct 4, 2013 21:42:25 GMT cerulean said:

Oct 4, 2013 15:00:35 GMT portofleith said:

I think there is a valid reason that Michelle McNamara wrote about the myth of Woofy. There is no evidence that the dog at Offerman Manning was a three toed German Shepherd. We all need to remember that one group of individuals in Sacramento were looked at very carefully- military dog handlers. EAR was a dog whisperer and a dog abuser. I think Lepke pointed out in another thread about mailmen who enter people's yards. I had a husky who looked ferocious and our mailman always brought him a dog biscuit and they became friends.

EAR/GSK was entering homes several times before the actual attack. He most likely befriended dogs. Recall that he entered one bedroom in Sacramento holding the family's Pit Bull. I have not seen anything that suggests the same dog was used in all of the Goleta crimes. The dog stabbing that occurred right before the Queen Anne attack of Oct 1979, could very well have occurred because the dog entered a yard that GSK was surveilling and he attempted to dispatch the dog just as he would have Rodney Miller.

The same logic may apply to the dog blood found the morning after the murders of Domingo Sanchez. I know how my dog reacts to coyote kills and it is not preposterous to think that a neighborhood dog(or a feral dog) would have become agitated by the murders and GSK stabbed the dog if it was interfering with his movements. That might explain the blood on the sidewalk and the bridge.

There were dog prints found in the vicinity of Offerman Manning on the patio and by a fence that had a tennis shoe skidmark. Did a dog follow GSK in his wanderings that night?

I never believed that a neighborhood dog was used to guard a pot farm(which now produces lovely organic vegetables, by the way). The myth of the white three toed German Shepherd was created by a board poster.

According to Sudden Terror, Ear did not walk into the room with the pit bull. And the pit bull was actually a puppy:

"Westcott’s seven month old pit bulldog jumped on the bed while EAR searched the house. When he returned, the dog growled once but did not bark. EAR picked the dog up and walked out of the room."

He picked up a puppy and walked out. Contrary to the myths around pit bulls, they can have submissive personalities, they arent all aggressive killers. They got very popular as drug guard & fighting dogs in the 80s & 90s and subsequently more have probably been bred to be aggressive, but they are not the evil beasts they are made out to be. Thats why now the favored attack dogs are mastiffs breeds, which dwarf pit bulls in size. Anyway, it is likely that he befriended (ugh) that puppy when he was in the home prior to the attack, where he removed the shells from the owners shotgun. LE should have checked to see if they were missing hot dogs, cheese or salami.

Why isnt it likely that at the O/M scene he either ate that turkey outside, threw it down, and after he left, a dog who had smelled it wandered by? Or that a dog had followed him and he threw it out there for him to distract him? More than likely, a dog that friendly would have bolted when he shot the gun so many times, and had it stuck around, it would have been wary at the smell of blood and gun residue on EAR and either ttaken off or barked at him and then taken off. I do not believe there is a neighborhood anywhere where dogs have not escaped their yard to wander.   Last year I had found a min pin who had taken advantage of a snowdrift and usd it as a ramp to escape its yard. Dogs love to roam, and theyre looking for food or other dogs to mate with, probably in that order.

If it is true, which we do not know, that Ears sneaker prints were up on on fence where the dogs prints were, it could suggest that dog drove him to jump up on the fence, like the poodle did in an early EAR attack when the dog moved toward him.   How about this scenario: he goes to leave and theres a dog in the yard because a gate has been left open or not, and so ear grabs the turkey from the fridge and throws the turkey  down in the yard, to distract the dog while he heads for the fence to escape.   

Cerulean- A seven month old pit bull probably weighs 55-60 pounds, so not an extremely big dog.  The interesting aspect of the pit bull is that EAR brought it into the house and taunted the male victim with this fact, after the victim warned GSK that he had a pit bull.  That is just the kind of guy he was- charming to a fault.

The turkey carcass was dropped in the house and not on the patio.

I think that the Goleta crimes suggest the presence of several different dogs.

[portofleith]

Cerulean- I am basing my information on a source besides the book. The male victim told EAR that he had a pit bull in the yard. EAR then brought the dog into the house. Ear very consistently taunted the male victims, way beyond coming back to check their ligatures. He also liked to whisper mean things in their ears while they were balancing the tea cups.

There was a small bag of turkey bones on the patio, but the carcass of the turkey was inside the sliding glass door. It does suggest he might have fed a dog from that point.

Quote from you: Why don't you elaborate on why you think "the Goleta crimes suggest the presence of several different dogs", or whatever that means. Or maybe I missed it on the board somewhere.

How many times can a dog be stabbed and live?

You also had a question about Offerman's practice and the janitor.  Offerman was part of an orthopedic practice with partner Dr. Latta and it was a large and very successful practice.   You can look up his office complex in the SB directory from the time period and view it in google. 

[redding]

Oct 4, 2013 22:34:49 GMT cerulean said:

Oct 4, 2013 22:19:04 GMT portofleith said:

Cerulean- A seven month old pit bull probably weighs 55-60 pounds, so not an extremely big dog.  The interesting aspect of the pit bull is that EAR brought it into the house and taunted the male victim with this fact, after the victim warned GSK that he had a pit bull.  That is just the kind of guy he was- charming to a fault.

The turkey carcass was dropped in the house and not on the patio.

I think that the Goleta crimes suggest the presence of several different dogs.

7mo old pitbull with a kid

For perspective.  Im not a pitbull expert but a 7month old dog is still thinking and acting like they are in the toddler stage.  Thats a pup on the larger side, but still a pup.

And Im not certain, so tell us, who should we believe? Your account where EAR brought the dog into the house and taunted the people or the one from Sudden Terror where he's already in the house and there is no mention of EAR bringing the dog in?  That would have been very colorful to put in the book.

In the house? What source? Did I miss that from the victims report? Since it has been constantly mentioned that it was found outside, maybe i just swallowed a myth!  It's impossible not to.

Why dont you elaborate on why you think "the Goleta crimes suggest the presence of several different dogs", or whatever that means. Or maybe I missed it on the board somewhere.

Dogs are not aggressive at seven months.  The only thing that the pit bull incident shows is that the GSK was comfortable with dogs. You don't have to be an expert in animal behavior to recognize a harmless puppy when you see one.

[ezraeda]

Oct 8, 2013 5:25:38 GMT cerulean said:

Oct 4, 2013 23:44:23 GMT redding said:

Dogs are not aggressive at seven months.  The only thing that the pit bull incident shows is that the GSK was comfortable with dogs. You don't have to be an expert in animal behavior to recognize a harmless puppy when you see one.

Yeah. Now I want one.

My oldest daughter got two big pit bulls. I was VERY apprehensive at first. I have learned over time that a dog' s behavior is not defined by it's breed. Provided it's genetically sound, and properly socialized and trained, any breed will be perfectly fine. Her pit bull male is the singular most gentle, obedient and sensitive dog I have ever seen. MY yorkie, on the other hand, is a menace. She was a seriously traumatized rescue, and despite years of consistent love and training, she would bite you as soon as look at you. If she were a larger dog, I think I'd have to put her down. My son in law claims you aren't a member of the family until Ursula bites you a few times. She waits until your back is turned and goes straight for the ankles. The issue with pit bulls is that they have the equipment to follow through on the threat. Her dog's head is bigger than my entire dog. Who, by the way,terrorizes the pit.  There was a link to a series of videos, which of course I've lost, that someone posted here, about dogs reacting to intruders. If you watch closely, you can see that a family pet, even a territorial one, will back down from a dominant person with the correct demeanor. Dogs are all about body language and senses. The pretend intruder had no fear, and in fact, was enjoying himself. I'm guessing GSK was comfortable around dogs, knew how to project that alpha dog vibe, and had no fear. Aren't psychopaths known for their lack of fear, even at great personal risk? Good thing Cesar Milan has no serial inclinations.

[ezraeda]

Oct 8, 2013 6:08:08 GMT ezraeda said:

Oct 8, 2013 5:25:38 GMT cerulean said:

Yeah. Now I want one.

My oldest daughter got two big pit bulls. I was VERY apprehensive at first. I have learned over time that a dog' s behavior is not defined by it's breed. Provided it's genetically sound, and properly socialized and trained, any breed will be perfectly fine. Her pit bull male is the singular most gentle, obedient and sensitive dog I have ever seen. MY yorkie, on the other hand, is a menace. She was a seriously traumatized rescue, and despite years of consistent love and training, she would bite you as soon as look at you. If she were a larger dog, I think I'd have to put her down. My son in law claims you aren't a member of the family until Ursula bites you a few times. She waits until your back is turned and goes straight for the ankles. The issue with pit bulls is that they have the equipment to follow through on the threat. Her dog's head is bigger than my entire dog. Who, by the way,terrorizes the pit.  There was a link to a series of videos, which of course I've lost, that someone posted here, about dogs reacting to intruders. If you watch closely, you can see that a family pet, even a territorial one, will back down from a dominant person with the correct demeanor. Dogs are all about body language and senses. The pretend intruder had no fear, and in fact, was enjoying himself. I'm guessing GSK was comfortable around dogs, knew how to project that alpha dog vibe, and had no fear. Aren't psychopaths known for their lack of fear, even at great personal risk? Good thing Cesar Milan has no serial inclinations.

Almost forgot. Didn't I read somewhere that GSK shut family pets up in other rooms before he got started on his nefarious work? Which would make the issue of a dog in the house moot. Even if it barked, a neighbor who doesn't call cops about a masked prowler or a gun shot isn't going to call 911 about a barking dog. I also read he ordered the victims to shut their dogs up or he'd kill the victims. Am I missing something or is it really true he brought a dog into some of the scenes? I lost the truth of the matter somewhere in the debate. I just can't imagine such a control obsessive bringing in that sort of variable.

[rocker]

Are there any other known occurrences of a serial criminal ever bringing a dog with them during the commission of rape or murder committed at the intended victims residence?

[portofleith]

There is no evidence he brought a dog with him to any of the murder scenes. I do think the dog is a recurring theme in Goleta, but in a capacity yet to be defined. Strangely enough, there was once a rabbit hair that could not be accounted for at a crime scene in Sacramento- probably transferred from clothing.

Cerulean- My source is law enforcement.  You will just have to trust that I know what he whispered in the male victim's ears. He was not a nice person.

[lepke]

Oct 8, 2013 6:08:08 GMT ezraeda said:

Oct 8, 2013 5:25:38 GMT cerulean said:

Yeah. Now I want one.

My oldest daughter got two big pit bulls. I was VERY apprehensive at first. I have learned over time that a dog' s behavior is not defined by it's breed. Provided it's genetically sound, and properly socialized and trained, any breed will be perfectly fine. Her pit bull male is the singular most gentle, obedient and sensitive dog I have ever seen. MY yorkie, on the other hand, is a menace. She was a seriously traumatized rescue, and despite years of consistent love and training, she would bite you as soon as look at you. If she were a larger dog, I think I'd have to put her down. My son in law claims you aren't a member of the family until Ursula bites you a few times. She waits until your back is turned and goes straight for the ankles. The issue with pit bulls is that they have the equipment to follow through on the threat. Her dog's head is bigger than my entire dog. Who, by the way,terrorizes the pit.  There was a link to a series of videos, which of course I've lost, that someone posted here, about dogs reacting to intruders. If you watch closely, you can see that a family pet, even a territorial one, will back down from a dominant person with the correct demeanor. Dogs are all about body language and senses. The pretend intruder had no fear, and in fact, was enjoying himself. I'm guessing GSK was comfortable around dogs, knew how to project that alpha dog vibe, and had no fear. Aren't psychopaths known for their lack of fear, even at great personal risk? Good thing Cesar Milan has no serial inclinations.

Yes, a feature of psychopathy is being fearless.