Possible Connection between 1973 Sac and the VR?

[locard]

Mar 4, 2018 6:37:07 GMT nick said:

Mar 4, 2018 1:58:41 GMT locard said:

Hi Morf,

Remember Visalia Detective Bill McGowen, who was shot at by the Visalia Ransacker, DID NOT like the composite of the VR that was rushed to print without McGowen's approval. McGowen had described the VR as having "soft" skin and being young, which is why McGowen didn't shoot at the VR when McGowen had the opportunity. 

"Soft skin" came out as "fat skin". Who knows who drew the composite. Sometimes small law enforcement agencies don't have access to the best artists. If McGowen didn't have much faith in the composite sketch than neither should we.

But he was the only one who could ask for another drawing or at least a re-draw we have to assume he was in the room with the artist. So was it a case of he was okay with it at the time the drawing was complete and thought about and decided it was not right later? Do we know the time frame of drawing to the shooting incident? Could stress play a role?

Locard I know you are very well versed on VR do you know more about drawing? When was McGowen unhappy with drawing?

Visalia Police Detective Bill McGowen was immediately unhappy with the Visalia Ransacker composite, which had apparently been rushed to the newspaper without McGowen's permission. (Note: I don't know how that happened. If he was gone, busy, tied up, or if the newspaper asked for it because they had a print deadline and who released the composite to the local Visalia media without consulting McGowen.) 

McGowen had described the Visalia Ransacker as having "soft skin", which the "artist" (whomever that was) drew as chubby, not soft. 

I really don't know who the composite artist was or the artist's experience with drawing composite's from witness descriptions. Sure, stress could have played a role in the poor VR composite. But so could have small-town LE and not having access to better sketch artists, the altnerative of the day (those sketch kits with face types, etc.), and the fact that at some point McGowen was hypnotized for a later drawing. I am not a big fan of hypnosis and many people give information that they never saw when they first described the person. 

I have heard that Visalia Police don't have VR's DNA, but they may have VR's prints. It would be interesting when EAR is finally identified to find out if his prints were ever in Visalia. 

[attxlatt121]

Mar 4, 2018 10:47:33 GMT locard said:

Mar 4, 2018 6:37:07 GMT nick said:

But he was the only one who could ask for another drawing or at least a re-draw we have to assume he was in the room with the artist. So was it a case of he was okay with it at the time the drawing was complete and thought about and decided it was not right later? Do we know the time frame of drawing to the shooting incident? Could stress play a role?

Locard I know you are very well versed on VR do you know more about drawing? When was McGowen unhappy with drawing?

Visalia Police Detective Bill McGowen was immediately unhappy with the Visalia Ransacker composite, which had apparently been rushed to the newspaper without McGowen's permission. (Note: I don't know how that happened. If he was gone, busy, tied up, or if the newspaper asked for it because they had a print deadline and who released the composite to the local Visalia media without consulting McGowen.) 

McGowen had described the Visalia Ransacker as having "soft skin", which the "artist" (whomever that was) drew as chubby, not soft. 

I really don't know who the composite artist was or the artist's experience with drawing composite's from witness descriptions. Sure, stress could have played a role in the poor VR composite. But so could have small-town LE and not having access to better sketch artists, the altnerative of the day (those sketch kits with face types, etc.), and the fact that at some point McGowen was hypnotized for a later drawing. I am not a big fan of hypnosis and many people give information that they never saw when they first described the person. 

I have heard that Visalia Police don't have VR's DNA, but they may have VR's prints. It would be interesting if EAR is finally identified to find out if his prints were ever in Visalia. 

I think we can definitely say that the VR composite is terrible.  It is almost a caricature/cartoon compared to any of the EAR composites. 

[cleopatra]

Mar 3, 2018 1:11:51 GMT bob said:

Mar 3, 2018 1:07:50 GMT nick said:

That's weird how would anyone know that? I would not put it past VR since he was an evening offender who was seen a lot because of the timing of his crimes but I am not sure unless someone saw a pillow fall out?

trabuco, where did you read this? I've never heard or seen this, and I spend way too much time reading stuff on here.

That is so opposite of the Sac offender who was known to trim down on clothing, particularly from the waist down.

[portofleith]

Mar 3, 2018 19:36:53 GMT MJP said:

Mar 3, 2018 17:33:40 GMT portofleith said:

Clark deals with facts and his review of the 1974 and 1975 burglary reports will tell whether or not it is possible that EAR and VR is the same individual.  I have a great deal of respect for Clark and his ability to follow this lead to the end.

EAR stole jewelry, but he only once stole single earrings.  That may be significant though- it may make the victim a special target.

If this is correct, then it seems odd that 'stealing single earrings' has been touted as part of EAR's MO.

I'm not sure what the 'frequency threshold' is across the series of EAR attacks for a specific action to be considered part of the MO --- 5? 10?  Is there an accepted (percentage?) measure for determining MO in series of crimes?

I spent some time researching the single earring thefts yesterday and it seems to have been a rare occurence back then- only a single article on the subject.  The actress Joan Fontaine was a victim of  single earring theft in 1974.  There were many articles about some men beginning to wear single earrings.

EARONS is most likely the person who completed the strange burglaries the night of the Offerman Manning murders, and there was a theft of a single earring in one of those homes.  It must have had some significance to him.

[MJP]

Mar 4, 2018 15:18:55 GMT portofleith said:

Mar 3, 2018 19:36:53 GMT MJP said:

If this is correct, then it seems odd that 'stealing single earrings' has been touted as part of EAR's MO.

I'm not sure what the 'frequency threshold' is across the series of EAR attacks for a specific action to be considered part of the MO --- 5? 10?  Is there an accepted (percentage?) measure for determining MO in series of crimes?

I spent some time researching the single earring thefts yesterday and it seems to have been a rare occurence back then- only a single article on the subject.  The actress Joan Fontaine was a victim of  single earring theft in 1974.  There were many articles about some men beginning to wear single earrings.

EARONS is most likely the person who completed the strange burglaries the night of the Offerman Manning murders, and there was a theft of a single earring in one of those homes.  It must have had some significance to him.

Ha, so I wasn't the only person doing that! 

I found also two articles about burglaries in Bakersfield that included the theft of a single earring but, in line with nick 's earlier comment, there were many more articles about the trend of men wearing a single earring.  It's still unclear to me why single earring thefts are considered part of EAR's MO if there were so few instances of it but perhaps that's a question without a straightforward answer.   

[attxlatt121]

You can only really compare VR crimes to the early EAR crimes as the suspect was clearly learning. Those first few EAR crimes are very much like the snelling crime.

I am still 60/40 on the connection but it is interesting

[jackydee]

Mar 4, 2018 16:58:07 GMT attxlatt121 said:

You can only really compare VR crimes to the early EAR crimes as the suspect was clearly learning. Those first few EAR crimes are very much like the snelling crime.

I am still 60/40 on the connection but it is interesting

Can I ask what it is about those first few ear crimes you think are like the Snelling crime?

[zforce]

Mar 4, 2018 16:58:07 GMT attxlatt121 said:

You can only really compare VR crimes to the early EAR crimes as the suspect was clearly learning. Those first few EAR crimes are very much like the snelling crime.

I am still 60/40 on the connection but it is interesting

I mean, unless he was responsible for the 1973 Sac activity and then moved to Visalia.

[attxlatt121]

Mar 4, 2018 18:39:27 GMT zforce said:

Mar 4, 2018 16:58:07 GMT attxlatt121 said:

You can only really compare VR crimes to the early EAR crimes as the suspect was clearly learning. Those first few EAR crimes are very much like the snelling crime.

I am still 60/40 on the connection but it is interesting

I mean, unless he was responsible for the 1973 Sac activity and then moved to Visalia.

I mean you can’t compare the EAR MO from 1979 to the VR and say they don’t match because MO changes over time

[attxlatt121]

Mar 4, 2018 17:45:06 GMT jackydee said:

Mar 4, 2018 16:58:07 GMT attxlatt121 said:

You can only really compare VR crimes to the early EAR crimes as the suspect was clearly learning. Those first few EAR crimes are very much like the snelling crime.

I am still 60/40 on the connection but it is interesting

Can I ask what it is about those first few ear crimes you think are like the Snelling crime?

Hi Jackydee

- Dumping the victims purse on the patio outside
- use of Johnson’s baby oil as lubricant
- Hang up phone calls
- Ransacking of the entire house
- Theft of silver dollars
- Use of outdoor furniture to stand on
- Victim waking up with Suspect on top of them
- Clenched teeth whisper disguising a high voice with threat to be quiet or get stabbed
- Use of a chair to block the door
- Attempting to take the victim out of the house
- Single story house/prying sliding door
- attacking girls of high school age
- single earrings

These were not present during all of the early attacks, no two were exactly the same. But these all were present at VR attacks and occur across the early 1976 attacks.






Edit: and this is not even including the similar physical description, both being described as left handed, use of ski masks and use of trails, canals and ditches.

[Deleted]

Mar 4, 2018 20:39:14 GMT attxlatt121 said:

Mar 4, 2018 17:45:06 GMT jackydee said:

Can I ask what it is about those first few ear crimes you think are like the Snelling crime?

Hi Jackydee

- Dumping the victims purse on the patio outside
- use of Johnson’s baby oil as lubricant
- Hang up phone calls
- Ransacking of the entire house
- Theft of silver dollars
- Use of outdoor furniture to stand on
- Victim waking up with Suspect on top of them
- Clenched teeth whisper disguising a high voice with threat to be quiet or get stabbed
- Use of a chair to block the door
- Attempting to take the victim out of the house
- Single story house/prying sliding door
- attacking girls of high school age
- single earrings

These were not present during all of the early attacks, no two were exactly the same. But these all were present at VR attacks and occur across the early 1976 attacks.






Edit: and this is not even including the similar physical description, both being described as left handed, use of ski masks and use of trails, canals and ditches.

While ransacking, taking women's clothing and arranging it somewhere in the house.

[attxlatt121]

Also, can we all please look at the Sacramento Sheriff departmental memo of May 2nd 1977:
www.thequesterfiles.com/html/departmental_memo_may_2__1977-.html

“Investigators are also reviewing ALL sex offenses, burglaries, and prowler reports for possible connections to the East Area Rapist.”

[redding2]

Mar 4, 2018 22:01:28 GMT attxlatt121 said:

Also, can we all please look at the Sacramento Sheriff departmental memo of May 2nd 1977:
www.thequesterfiles.com/html/departmental_memo_may_2__1977-.html

“Investigators are also reviewing ALL sex offenses, burglaries, and prowler reports for possible connections to the East Area Rapist.”

Great find and it proves once and for all that they did look back then and as Detective Clark says there is "an obvious gap" that the VR would explain.

[trabuco]

The VR seemed to like womens clothing. He was fascinated with their clothing. Must have been part of his fantasy. The EAR seems to be fascinated with pictures of women. Maybe his fantasy is progressing? He needs to see more to keep his fantasy alive.

Driver's license pictures.

Wedding pictures.

Pictures on walls.

[Deleted]

Mar 4, 2018 22:52:10 GMT trabuco said:

The VR seemed to like womens clothing. He was fascinated with their clothing. Must have been part of his fantasy. The EAR seems to be fascinated with pictures of women. Maybe his fantasy is progressing? He needs to see more to keep his fantasy alive.

Driver's license pictures.

Wedding pictures.

Pictures on walls.

Like Russell Williams. The Canadian Colonel was also a rapist and stole huge amounts of clothing, brought it home and stored it in duffel bags. Unlike the EAR, he offended during the digital age so it was easy for him to take a huge amount of photos (and videos?) and he photographed himself wearing women's clothing.

Maybe EAR was a cross dresser, a theory which has been floated occasionally on the esteemed threads of this hallowed message board.