Joseph James DeAngelo and Zodiac

[trabuco]

May 26, 2018 18:53:27 GMT annielynn said:

May 26, 2018 7:17:26 GMT trabuco said:

Sex. That is the downfall of many a serial killer. Leaving DNA. But not the Zodiac Killer. He was just a cold blooded killer.

Not soo fast. Remember the letter he sends in revealing he's had sex with at least one girl and enjoyed it? That's not just notoriety. What's that all about; he thought about it enough to share that with the press when musing over his crimes. He religiously fantasized dominating his victims in this life and the afterlife. Killing in cold blood execution style could have been fueling his sexual sadism urges maybe even the absolute height of it. And at the time could have been gratifying experiencing with his perceived luxury of coming up on people and giving them a quick merciless death no sex for them. My belief, Zodiac doesn't fit into historical understandings of serial killer's sexual sadism components which is interesting to me because it could have been an even stronger variable for him. Starting with let me just blow some bullets in you could have been sexually exciting here I got something for ya bang bang your life is mine now. Your life is mine forever in just one quick trigger. Zodiac's cold blooded killing could have been the killer's start later getting even more creative to get the same satisfaction. During Zodiacs killing spree he was very energized in communicating with the media I think it was very empowering exciting to him like here's my resume now I'm going to go get down to business. I don't think Zodiac was just a cold blooded killer IMO.

Nice post Annielynn.

The progression of crimes. JJD did you trade your hood for a mask? Couples in cars for couples in beds? Licking of envelopes and stamps for clenched teeth ordering bound cupped hands to "play with it?"

[ea]

I felt very excited seeing this article: www.buzzfeed.com/peteraldhous/parabon-genetic-genealogy-cold-cases?utm_term=.dvxWJPRJM#.kijpkgqk1

Some reports seemed to suggest that the newly submitted Zodiac DNA may be leading somewhere but not sure if that is accurate. The articles were not fully clear.

Regardless, it looks like that Washington case was one of the first ones announced because the family tree was easy to sort, and the guy was arrested.

With some of the others, the family tree may be more distant and taking longer. Or they may not want to tip off the suspect until he's already arrested.

It's an exciting time for cold cases! I hope we get some closure about Zodiac. I also hope jurisdictions that are sitting on never-tested or inadequately-tested DNA evidence will get in on this.

[Deleted]

May 26, 2018 2:59:54 GMT sanfranwmn said:

May 25, 2018 6:48:41 GMT @slaphappy said:

Sorry that news article threw me off, i did not know david carpenter had attacked in santa cruz. I thought he had only been in the north bay near mount talmapais. I also did not know he was suspected in the death of mary frances bennett at lands end in san francisco. He also was a zodiac suspect until he was cleared. Welcome to the board zeldazonk.

Eeew David Carpenter. He's the one that was at my neighbors house for tea. Twice! He never touched her and she was in his car a couple times too
When he was arrested we were all shocked that he had been in our building.

P.S. He died yesterday. I saw a blurb. I think he was one of the oldest people on death row.

I don't want to derail this thread any further but I'm sorry I have to ask if david carpenter always looked like a pug and not in the so ugly he's cute way? Another one that I vote for 'damnatio memoriae' and may his name never be mentioned again.

[ea]

Do any of the military experts here have a sense of the likelihood of JJD continuing to serve after returning from Vietnam?

One source I found said he was in Vietnam 22 months. Didn't the military require enlistment terms of at least four years?

Is Reserve service required after getting out?

I still think if he was stationed at Mare Island after he got back, it greatly increases the likelihood of him committing the Zodiac crimes.

[riverstorum]

Plus, a profiler felt at the time that he may have been covering up for suppressed homosexual feelings. They felt that a straight male wouldn't need to write "with a girl" at the end of "getting your rocks off", that Zodiac was overcompensating, and may have not had luck with girls,or was a latent homosexual

🙄 They always say this because they are so used to pointing at LGBT for the deviancy in the world.

[sanfranwmn]

May 26, 2018 21:12:36 GMT @slaphappy said:

May 26, 2018 2:59:54 GMT sanfranwmn said:

Eeew David Carpenter. He's the one that was at my neighbors house for tea. Twice! He never touched her and she was in his car a couple times too
When he was arrested we were all shocked that he had been in our building.

P.S. He died yesterday. I saw a blurb. I think he was one of the oldest people on death row.

I don't want to derail this thread any further but I'm sorry I have to ask if david carpenter always looked like a pug and not in the so ugly he's cute way? Another one that I vote for 'damnatio memoriae' and may his name never be mentioned again.

Probably. He seems to be naturally scary looking. She read for his mother when she ( my neighbor) was pregnant with her first child. His mother was blind. So he gave my neighbor a ride home a few times from Marin to S.F. I will ask her about him sometime. I think she said he was weird.

[trabuco]

May 26, 2018 21:22:56 GMT ea said:

Do any of the military experts here have a sense of the likelihood of JJD continuing to serve after returning from Vietnam?

One source I found said he was in Vietnam 22 months. Didn't the military require enlistment terms of at least four years?

Is Reserve service required after getting out?

I still think if he was stationed at Mare Island after he got back, it greatly increases the likelihood of him committing the Zodiac crimes.

I'm no military expert but I have had the same thought about JJD continuing to serve after he left the military and I'll tell you why.

In the newspaper article with JJD's picture it explains he was in the Navy and will serve the people of Exeter as a policeman.

[annielynn]

1968-1970 I believe JJD was attending Sierra college about an hour give and take I think from a couple Zodiac killing locations.

1971 I believe in March Zodiac sends Sierra club postcard to San Francisco chronicle JJD would have graduated college by/near this time.

[Aristotle]

It is ridiculous to even speculate or entertain the thought that DeAngelo is the Zodiac Killer. The M.O.'s by their very nature don't match. The Zodiac murders had no sexual component, meanwhile DeAngelo's crimes do have a sexual component. Zodiac sent letters to the major newspapers of Northern California. DeAngelo as far as we know did not communicate with the media or law enforcement. So it seems to me that there are more differences than similarities in the crimes of Joseph James DeAngelo and the Zodiac Killer.

[annielynn]

“I remember there was actually a sexual thrill . . . you hear that little pop and pull their heads off and hold their heads up by the hair. Whipping their heads off, their body sitting there. That’d get me off.” - Kemper

There is proof there was sexual component and as I previously went over I believe it was very strong sexual component. He stated so himself. There's not much to read between the lines on was there sexual component or not. I'll take his word for it - 'had sex with at least one girl enjoyed it'
'better than getting rocks off with girl'. Let's define Sexual Component shall we? 
Do you have any idea what some people are turned on by, sexually excited by? Cold blooded killing would be one. Rape, masturbation, so forth need not be present on the crime scene for strong sexual component.

You cannot deduce intelligent in-control mega criminals to Modus Operandi.

Modus Operandi is more useful concerning serial offenders controlled by compulsory behavior which then provides a more accurate analysis of connecting patterns in criminal investigation.

[morf13]

May 27, 2018 11:23:58 GMT Aristotle said:

It is ridiculous to even speculate or entertain the thought that DeAngelo is the Zodiac Killer. The M.O.'s by their very nature don't match. The Zodiac murders had no sexual component, meanwhile DeAngelo's crimes do have a sexual component. Zodiac sent letters to the major newspapers of Northern California. DeAngelo as far as we know did not communicate with the media or law enforcement. So it seems to me that there are more differences than similarities in the crimes of Joseph James DeAngelo and the Zodiac Killer.

I still can't believe people are entertaining the idea that DeAngelo was Zodiac. They share one main part of their script, and that is forcing the female at gunpoint to tie up the male victim, then after the male is secured, tying up the woman. Zodiac did this in Napa in 1969, and he's considered a suspect in the 1963 murders of Domingos/Edwards in Santa Barbara County, in which similar M.O. was used. Zodiac's shoe size by the way was about 10.5"

[brittz]

I personally find it implausible that jjd is the zodiac and i see by the poll that most people isnt buying it either

[annielynn]

Kemper was rather a good ex. he started off killing his grandparents execution style when he was 15 he was then released at 21 with psychiatrists convinced he was not a threat and to expunge the juvenile records. He then at some point tries to become a police officer but fails. He had IQ of 145 pretty sharp by IQ standards. He then goes on to kill several more people and ends with killing his mother and her friend afterwards turning himself in. He showed levels of control and ambition in his drive to kill but ended up far more compulsory in keeping the action going.

So if can't simply deduce intelligent in-control mega criminals to Modus Operandi then what other tools are there for connecting patterns in a serial offenders criminal activity? A closer look at an offenders ability to remain in control, plan, and successfully execute crimes can give us insight into the probabilities of them intentionally exerting behavioral flexibilities to commit crimes. And likelihood they may change aspects of MO based on variables like: their desire to prove they can (perceived personality traits of the offender through evidence), their advancement in experience, further evasion of capture, employment changes or changing environments, using new tools (disguises, weapons, transportation, etc), motivation of progression. Things like that. Patterns of victims can change as the criminal ages etc.

For example if JJD was in college 68-70 during that time he would have needed to exert control to successfully complete college. Writing letters to the press (Zodiac) and offending college high school age victims on the weekends in some remote locations would have been manageable.

Zodiac killed by gun by knife was known to use disguise told the one couple he was just going to rob them then gets them tied up and knifes them. Taunts the press and showcases how smart he is likes sex and is turned on by cold blooded killing. Every crime was not an exact replica from the last there is flexibility in his MO. Was Zodiac a criminal justice student soon to be Cop.

[annielynn]

May 28, 2018 20:26:20 GMT morf13 said:

May 27, 2018 11:23:58 GMT Aristotle said:

It is ridiculous to even speculate or entertain the thought that DeAngelo is the Zodiac Killer. The M.O.'s by their very nature don't match. The Zodiac murders had no sexual component, meanwhile DeAngelo's crimes do have a sexual component. Zodiac sent letters to the major newspapers of Northern California. DeAngelo as far as we know did not communicate with the media or law enforcement. So it seems to me that there are more differences than similarities in the crimes of Joseph James DeAngelo and the Zodiac Killer.

I still can't believe people are entertaining the idea that DeAngelo was Zodiac. They share one main part of their script, and that is forcing the female at gunpoint to tie up the male victim, then after the male is secured, tying up the woman. Zodiac did this in Napa in 1969, and he's considered a suspect in the 1963 murders of Domingos/Edwards in Santa Barbara County, in which similar M.O. was used. Zodiac's shoe size by the way was about 10.5"

I wouldn't be surprised if he wore 3 different sizes. Lol Most likely a true 9-9 1/2 for his high action phases  
Additionally the boot impression is not difinitively his although if indeed, there is question of boot impression and size of fit regarding the wing walker boot. An inch discretion in military boot size? 

Edit: To be clear on my own opinion I do think the wing walker boots were his. The size 10 1/2 doesn't deter me.

[annielynn]

1963 Linda Edwards and Robert Domingos are speculated to be Zodiacs first victims. The two victims were in their senior year at a Santa Barbara high school. 1963 is the year JJD dropped out of high school I think. Robert was shot 11 times Linda 9 times on the beach with .22 and Winchester western super x ammo found bound with rope. Is it possible JJD went to high school with the victims or knew them?

1966 - Cheri jo Bates he could have been on military break/leave.