did LE mess up GSK's DNA profile?

[Deleted]

Feb 2, 2014 17:55:18 GMT danmiami said:

I don't understand this at all? What is the point of The FBI doing it? Because it is their database? One could argue it is everyone's database as it could be public records. Hell everything else is. I found out my neighbor got arrested for a DUI the other day. You know how? Through a frigging email!!! That's right titled "You wonder what your neighbors are doing?" Well actually no I don't give a damn what they are doing and I don't want to prejudge people either ok? Unless they take someone's life or are sex offenders and are a threat to our children leave me alone about it!!!

See that is the problem of today. Too much irrelevant information. Ask a teenager if they ever heard or ONS or Kim Kardasian? What do you think the answer will be?

And I am not going to start getting *ed off as to why other databases aren't checked? It is some bureaucratic nonsense probably the same idiots that sent me that email. Politicians that don't want to explain why ONS was living in their state for 30 years. See I am going to get on my soapbox now so I better jump off before it consumes me. I just don't understand priorities anymore, it's about the paparazzi catching the best picture while this guy can be living next door to you. Once again Frankly unless they are a threat I don't give a damn about what people do. And just so you know I could care less about Kim Kardasian as well.

I understand your frustration.

I suppose the FBI and state LE could make the case that CODIS is too large and unwieldy to handle a familial DNA check. If that's the case, they should come up with a way to fix it. If it can be done in a state database, why can't it be done with CODIS?

[danmiami]

Valentina let me just tell you because I know systems and IT. It is not a systems issue. The DNA sequence can be matched. Will it take time and effort? Probably but how much is a human life worth? Just because it happened 30+ years ago does it make it any more or less relevant? Go tell the Harringtons that or The Smiths. How about The Witthuhns or Janelle Cruz's mother?

Politics is all it is most of the time. Not all of the time but you would be shocked and there is a reason why we don't trust our government and politicians. They are ill prepared to defend us. That is why we often take matters into our own hands like on this forum. Why should it be up the "amateur sleuths" to find him? Governor Swartzenegger or whoever the governor should say " no matter the money do what it takes" to protect the public from maniacs like this guy.

But even governors hands are tied because perhaps the Florida governor doesn't want their database checked? I mean we all know we have no crooks in Florida!! If I was ONS I know where I would go to blend in. The very place that can't even count a hanging chad!! If we can't count votes in an election how in hell do you find someone as smart as him?

[Deleted]

If memory serves EAR's case is one of five where dispensation was given for a familial search. The Grim Sleeper was another one. I'm going to do some googling but right now I'm going to do some sleeping.

well, that was quick. From the FBI website.

" Consider the applicable state laws and regulations governing the DNA databasing program to determine the best legal approach. Because many of the State laws are silent on the issue of familial searching, it is important to have a full legal review to evaluate whether familial searching is authorized in your jurisdiction. Those states which have adopted or rejected familial searching have done so under a variety of authorities:
California implemented its familial search program with the approval of their Attorney General. Several other states have recently introduced legislation (currently still in committee): Minnesota, Pennsylvania, and Tennessee. Two jurisdictions currently prohibit, by law, the use of familial searching; Maryland and the District of Columbia. Other jurisdictions have implemented familial searching based upon laboratory policy."

The way I read this if he's out of California and the other four states he's basically home free on the familial search. Especially if he was smart enough to move to D.C. or Maryland. 

[danmiami]

Feb 3, 2014 10:34:44 GMT f1guyus said:

If memory serves EAR's case is one of five where dispensation was given for a familial search. The Grim Sleeper was another one. I'm going to do some googling but right now I'm going to do some sleeping.

well, that was quick. From the FBI website.

" Consider the applicable state laws and regulations governing the DNA databasing program to determine the best legal approach. Because many of the State laws are silent on the issue of familial searching, it is important to have a full legal review to evaluate whether familial searching is authorized in your jurisdiction. Those states which have adopted or rejected familial searching have done so under a variety of authorities:
California implemented its familial search program with the approval of their Attorney General. Several other states have recently introduced legislation (currently still in committee): Minnesota, Pennsylvania, and Tennessee. Two jurisdictions currently prohibit, by law, the use of familial searching; Maryland and the District of Columbia. Other jurisdictions have implemented familial searching based upon laboratory policy."

The way I read this if he's out of California and the other four states he's basically home free on the familial search. Especially if he was smart enough to move to D.C. or Maryland. 

[Deleted]

One more thing. The FBI website states that the current CODIS software does not allow familial searches. Toss in the issues of illegitimacy and adoption and familial DNA may well be a dead end. Hope I'm wrong. BTW I skimmed the previous posts, if someone already addressed this issue in greater detail please disregard this post.

[danmiami]

I will just take my bow now and move on : ). Again it is all about priorities in life and politics. I will tell you how ONS is caught. Make it about money or get the national networks talking about it. Which again is about lobbyists and money. No one in this era cares about ONS and that is a damn shame! Because many lives were altered and affected. As I said just because it was 30+ years for me doesn't make it any more or less relevant! Human lives were lost and today it is all about "What have you done for me lately?"

In this case unfortunately nothing has happened lately. As a matter of fact in 30+ years. Very sad.

[danmiami]

Feb 3, 2014 10:58:19 GMT f1guyus said:

One more thing. The FBI website states that the current CODIS software does not allow familial searches. Toss in the issues of illegitimacy and adoption and familial DNA may well be a dead end. Hope I'm wrong. BTW I skimmed the previous posts, if someone already addressed this issue in greater detail please disregard this post.

[danmiami]

Yeah great research and find man!!

I have now changed my opinion about him ever being identified, Too many variables and now looks like roadblocks. Interesting The government talks about tracking down terrorists. If ONS isn't one of most picture perfect examples of domestic terrorism I don't know what is? Problem is I will get 20 million objections to that comment and the problem is they are missing the point. Call him a domestic terrorist and watch what happens!!!

Only other thing that can be done is inform someone like Bruce Harrington who is bright and has resources, Also unfortunely lost a brother to this monster. I wonder if he knows familial searches are limited to Califormia? He probably does and just throws his hands up. Pays $4 million of his own money and you have other states furthering their own personal agendas. Damn he committed crimes not far from Apple headquarters for Christ's sake!!! You would think more resources would be available. I guess not!!

Only hope is to get the public behind you and money. Good luck with that one!!!

[Deleted]

Google is your friend. Try "Familial DNA searches" . It will bring you to the FBI web page with specific info on the whys and wherefores of DNA. Everybody who cares about this case should read at least the familial page.

[danmiami]

Feb 3, 2014 16:19:06 GMT f1guyus said:

Google is your friend. Try "Familial DNA searches" . It will bring you to the FBI web page with specific info on the whys and wherefores of DNA. Everybody who cares about this case should read at least the familial page.

[danmiami]

Thanks. I remember searching on this subject a while back. Either there was conflicting information or I just missed or didn't understand it? Right on the FBI website it says it is "not a national database". This to me is mindboggling. Why are we are own worst enemy? I mean look again mistakes are made and LE did not know then what they know now. At least lets give them credit for preserving biological evidence but come on!! Why can't states get on the same page with this thing? Congress spends their time bickering and closing the government. One would think this emerging technologiy would come up with the enactment of Amber's law which has saved lives. Great legislation but again they cannot close the other loopholes. When I heard Bruce Harrington had to convince lawmakers in California to forceably extract DNA samples from felons I knew we were in serious trouble locating a match. Privacy laws are nonsense. If you have nothing to hide why fight it? Fingerprints are taken along with other biometrics already. This is bad timing with the NSA in the news because as I have said. Americans on average do not trust their own government.

Again I am glad we discussed this because it clarifies a major issue. If we can all agree ONS was mobile how can it be reasonable limiting the search to California? Sure it is better than nothing. It is like a football team driving 85 yards and then settling for a field goal when they could have scored six! My version on lightening things up a bit and just disappointed that football season is over. I firmly believe you must be proactive with this guy and check the nation with those states who have them in place. I see no legitimate reason as to why this cannot be accomplished? If anyone knows for sure if they went national or at least tried let us know. Someone tried to clarify this earlier. Thanks.

[guessting]

Feb 3, 2014 10:58:19 GMT f1guyus said:

One more thing. The FBI website states that the current CODIS software does not allow familial searches. Toss in the issues of illegitimacy and adoption and familial DNA may well be a dead end. Hope I'm wrong. BTW I skimmed the previous posts, if someone already addressed this issue in greater detail please disregard this post.

What's allowed? Nobody said allowed, believe me if anything comes back remotely close to EAR, it will be investigated! Then the trick will be finding the male that fits. It will happen, even if it's a California database! I guarantee it!

[Deleted]

Feb 3, 2014 19:56:17 GMT guessting said:

Feb 3, 2014 10:58:19 GMT f1guyus said:

One more thing. The FBI website states that the current CODIS software does not allow familial searches. Toss in the issues of illegitimacy and adoption and familial DNA may well be a dead end. Hope I'm wrong. BTW I skimmed the previous posts, if someone already addressed this issue in greater detail please disregard this post.

What's allowed? Nobody said allowed, believe me if anything comes back remotely close to EAR, it will be investigated! Then the trick will be finding the male that fits. It will happen, even if it's a California database! I guarantee it!

I suspected as much.

[xiulan]

Feb 3, 2014 17:37:31 GMT danmiami said:

Privacy laws are nonsense. If you have nothing to hide why fight it? Fingerprints are taken along with other biometrics already. This is bad timing with the NSA in the news because as I have said. Americans on average do not trust their own government.

"Americans on average do not trust their own government."
Nor should they. I have not broken a law in my life, that I know of, and I am not about to give up my DNA, fingerprints, tissues, or bodily fluids to ANYONE for ANY reason without a proper warrant or legal cause. I do not bank at institutions that require fingerprinting to make deposits or cash checks; I do not sign up for 'free' email accounts or social networking sites that require a valid phone number or other personal information for registration, etc. I have nothing to hide, so the government should be leaving me alone. It ought not to be up to me to prove to anyone the negative existence of illicit or illegal activity in my life. That's absurd. What happened with the NSA wasn't just a bad press day...

Convicted felons, though, ought to be fair game. They permanently lose the right to vote at all in Kentucky, Virginia, and Florida; while nine other states revoke the privilege for varying lengths of time post-parole. Only two states allow them to vote while still incarcerated. They lose the ability to participate as the member of a jury in 31 states and all federal courts for life. And federal statute prohibits them from ever owning a firearm again. Once you've crossed that line, it ought to be a no-brainer for the government to keep your DNA on file. I think it's bizarre that lifers and death row inmates have been allowed to simply opt out of DNA sampling. I even came across this article yesterday concerning the argument in Cali over whether or not there should be an open season declared on the previously unextracted DNA of deceased prisoners. I would draw the line at exhumation, but I don't see any problem with DNA-typing the stored samples of the deceased or asking for a waiver from next of kin to extract a sample from future prison decedents. These things could be helpful and would be appropriate. Yanking DNA from presumably innocent random people 'just in case' isn't at all.

Deceased Inmate DNA

[danmiami]

Yeah that is a very good point about a felon losing their rights as they also give up the right to vote. The basic ideal that if citizens do not like their politicians they can vote to change their government. If you have a clean record and never got into trouble what could the government do with your DNA? But at the same time just the notion of think tanks at the NSA using cutting edge technology to go in and out of people's lives. I guess if you think of it that way it could be said people (myself included) manage to screw up even the most minute of details. Imagine having your entire blueprint to your very existence? Yeah never thought of it that way but perhaps not worth the risk!!

Anyway I hope states do get moving on this CODIS database at least with felons. The crazy thing is think about the realization that many states can be at square one!!! In other words they have no database at all!!! The Great Recession hit state and local governments very hard. Wouldn't surprise me at all if that is/was the case.