Question about women and serial killers

[swaglikedracula]

Hey, first post here. This might not be the right section for this post but I have been into true crime for a long ass time and one thing I have noticed with the women I have met and made friends with who are also into true crime is that on social media sites like Instagram and even in general they seem to admire the serial killers and treat them almost like cult heroes, although they don't openly come out and state it explicitly. I know women who have posters and memorabilia of Charles Manson, Bundy, Gacey, Ramirez, etc on the walls in their house. One woman I know has a shirt with one of the Zodiac composites on it and a cheesy quote next to it. Even yesterday I saw a woman I know post up her new Fred West coffee cup on Instagram and she captioned it "love my new coffee mug xx".

This attitude is not shared among the women on forums like this and reddit. I have been lurking this board and a bunch of true crime forums for a while and whenever I see a woman post about DeAngelo, Bundy, West, Kemper, Manson, Ramirez, Ian Brady, and many others I notice the women always refer to them as "scumbags", "vile human beings", pieces of crap, etc. What I mean is that women on social media don't condemn the serial killers the same way the anonymous women on forums like this do.

It's like women on forums and discussion boards go out of their way to express how much they loathe these people and are disgusted by them but if you go to social media you'll see women who never have a bad word to say about these people. And they have all the memorabilia and put heart emojis next to serial killers pics and stuff like that.

So while both sets of women are interested in the same things and seeking to understand how the mind of that serial killer worked and what led him to do what he did and all the rest of it it's interesting that the women on social media do it without judgement or condemnation while the women on these types of boards regularly express how much they hate them.

The reason my post is about women specifically is mainly because I haven't noticed the same dichotomy with men who are interested in true crime and criminology. The vast majority of men seem to share the same view - the guy was an evil coward with some psychological issues and i am glad he is caught. Women seem to make true crime more "fun", at least the ones I have met and befriended.

So, essentially what i am asking is why are women "fans" of these guys on social media while on message boards they hate them and want them put to death? Is it something to do with age groups? demographics, etc?

[slumbergirl]

The reason my post is about women specifically is mainly because I haven't noticed the same dichotomy with men who are interested in true crime and criminology. The vast majority of men seem to share the same view - the guy was an evil coward with some psychological issues and i am glad he is caught. Women seem to make true crime more "fun", at least the ones I have met and befriended.


Jodi Arias reportedly receives lots of love letters and marriage proposals from men; the Manson Girls did, also. I believe all of the Manson Girls married - some more than once - while in prison. Many female prisoners rely on money from male “pen pals” in order to buy things in prison. For whatever bizarre reason, a small segment of people, male and female, want to be associated with criminals in the way you describe.   I suspect most on this board are more of the amateur sleuth genre or victims of the GSK.

[brow]

There is a difference between interest in the subject and fanfare. I know many women who, like myself, are interested in serial killers and true crime in general, but they would never consider themselves fan of a killer. Rather, they all agree that the criminals are scumbags and deserve the worst kind of punishment. The women you are referring to are no different that groupies that follow around musicians, they find the power and prestige (twisted as it is) alluring and they try to connect with them. Sometimes they identify with certain aspects of the killers life (a broken home, an abusive childhood, etc) and feel empathy, and in other cases, they are batshit crazy and the idea of being with a killer is a turn on.

However, I think the above applies to a small minority of people, men and women, who take an interest in serial killers. People get into true crime for a variety of reasons, but by and large, admiration of the criminals is typically not part of it.

[prayingmantis]

Serial killers tend to follow in others footsteps and they tend to generate a lot of followers people wanting to understand them, people seeking answers, people wanting to be like them, people exploring morbid curiosities, the harder they are to understand the more followers they tend to generate something Deangelo was aware of. I popped in here and won't be staying much longer on this board. I agree with brow on some of his points and ... I'm a little batshit crazy too but not in that way lol.

[rajmahal]

Aliens may indeed never talk to us.

Are you saying you don't like the judgmental women that hate on a guy like this and want to see this guy taken down? And that the one's that don't loathe him or express any disdain are more 'fun?' 

I think what social media circles someone is in is going to create a certain result. I've personally never seen anyone glamorize these people except occasional dumb comments on Youtube and rockstars with Manson t-shirts. If that's what the younger crowd is into, I wasn't aware of it. This isn't a pro-killer fetish deal.

We here were crowd sleuthing to see this guy caught because it was infinitely do-able due to the number of crimes, evidence and the presence of DNA. 

And those twisted weirdos (imo) that marry these guys/write them/glamorize them- that's not a female thing, its just that most of these killers are male.

Groupies come in both sexes- ask Joan Jett.

[swaglikedracula]

Well, one example; I recently saw a cool piece of art depicting the Zodiac killer posted on here. I can't remember which thread but it was promoting either a new podcast or a new book or something. Now imagine that I got that image tattooed on me. If other men questioned me about it they might say "why would you get that scum tattooed on you", "that guy was an evil scumbag", etc. In my experience with women (especially women into true crime and horror) it's not the same. They would see the tattoo as cool, something different, something out of the norm, and would not base their dislike of it strictly on the fact the Zodiac is a murderer. It would not stop one of those women from dating me, for example. But it might stop a guy from being friends with me because he would think I am weird for having it. If I put a photo of the tattoo on social media I could get a 100 likes from women on it. See the difference? Even men in the true crime community who study these killers for years and have an impeccable knowledge of them do not eulogize these killers in the same way some women do, especially on social media.

And it's the same thing with horror movie characters too. I know women who literally idolize Pennywise and Michael Myers to the point they dress their kids up like them and post memes saying their ideal boyfriend is Leatherface, lol. That's what I mean by "fun". Women tend to assign humanism, love, and comedic value to these psychopaths and killers whereas most men have a firm barricade in place of "nope he's evil" and that's all there is to it.

[maxxcat2018]

May 7, 2018 22:00:30 GMT swaglikedracula said:

Well, one example; I recently saw a cool piece of art depicting the Zodiac killer posted on here. I can't remember which thread but it was promoting either a new podcast or a new book or something. Now imagine that I got that image tattooed on me. If other men questioned me about it they might say "why would you get that scum tattooed on you", "that guy was an evil scumbag", etc. In my experience with women (especially women into true crime and horror) it's not the same. They would see the tattoo as cool, something different, something out of the norm, and would not base their dislike of it strictly on the fact the Zodiac is a murderer. It would not stop one of those women from dating me, for example. But it might stop a guy from being friends with me because he would think I am weird for having it. If I put a photo of the tattoo on social media I could get a 100 likes from women on it. See the difference? Even men in the true crime community who study these killers for years and have an impeccable knowledge of them do not eulogize these killers in the same way some women do, especially on social media.

And it's the same thing with horror movie characters too. I know women who literally idolize Pennywise and Michael Myers to the point they dress their kids up like them and post memes saying their ideal boyfriend is Leatherface, lol. That's what I mean by "fun". Women tend to assign humanism, love, and comedic value to these psychopaths and killers whereas most men have a firm barricade in place of "nope he's evil" and that's all there is to it.

Please folks, do not drop the bad acid.

[cerulean]

Incel in the house.

[tman2004]

I just read about a guy named Phillip jablonski who was in San Quentin when he met a wife but once he was paroled she was actually afraid to let him move in. He ended up killing her and her mother. She clearly had some type of delusions and realized her mistake once it became real but it was too late by then.

[slumbergirl]

May 7, 2018 22:00:30 GMT swaglikedracula said:

Well, one example; I recently saw a cool piece of art depicting the Zodiac killer posted on here. I can't remember which thread but it was promoting either a new podcast or a new book or something. Now imagine that I got that image tattooed on me. If other men questioned me about it they might say "why would you get that scum tattooed on you", "that guy was an evil scumbag", etc. In my experience with women (especially women into true crime and horror) it's not the same. They would see the tattoo as cool, something different, something out of the norm, and would not base their dislike of it strictly on the fact the Zodiac is a murderer. It would not stop one of those women from dating me, for example. But it might stop a guy from being friends with me because he would think I am weird for having it. If I put a photo of the tattoo on social media I could get a 100 likes from women on it. See the difference? Even men in the true crime community who study these killers for years and have an impeccable knowledge of them do not eulogize these killers in the same way some women do, especially on social media.

And it's the same thing with horror movie characters too. I know women who literally idolize Pennywise and Michael Myers to the point they dress their kids up like them and post memes saying their ideal boyfriend is Leatherface, lol. That's what I mean by "fun". Women tend to assign humanism, love, and comedic value to these psychopaths and killers whereas most men have a firm barricade in place of "nope he's evil" and that's all there is to it.

Get a tattoo of Jodi Arias and see what the reaction is....😁

[freudianslip]

As someone with a background in abnormal psychology, I can shed some light on this phenomenon. There are several theories on why a minority of women are attracted to serial killers, and one possibility is that they see a serial killer as the ultimate protector. The most extreme outward expression of an "alpha male;" one who is feared by all, commands the attention of the rest of the group, has the ability to take what he wants when he wants, and in some twisted way that makes him the ultimate provider. Now, this is obviously a conceptualization heavily informed by evolutionary psychology, which I don't tend to favour on their own because they frequently portray us as pre-programmed automatons bereft of higher-order thinking abilities and slaves to our instincts. So it's important to remember that things are often multifactorial, and while the "bad boy, 'alpha male' taken to the extreme" is important here, women who fit this mould often have other contributing factors, such as a history of trauma, co-occurring mental disorders, etc. They often also have personality traits that are conducive to "falling in love" with a killer, such as high suggestibility, or being easily manipulated. Remember, psychopaths tend to be quite charming; and even superficial charm can be influential on the emotionally vulnerable. All it could take is a fascination and one letter. There's also the desire to "fix" someone taken to the extreme (understatement of the century).

As far as men being attracted to female serial killers, this area is even less developed, considering the gender disparity among the serial-killing population so this will be more speculative. Now, of course, men can also have trauma histories, be emotionally vulnerable, and easily manipulated. That doesn't necessarily mean these things would be significant factors to this type of attraction though. Lots of research differs based on gender variables, and we don't always know why. We can probably transfer the "alpha male" one over, but alter it slightly so that the main motivation is to pursue a "mother protector" figure. Men with this motivation may have had domineering, to the point of abusive, mothers and tend to play a submissive role in relationships (this point pains me to make because it hits too close to Freud for comfort, and despite my handle, I'm not a fan of the way Freud is still often associated with my field by laypeople).

Another potential factor is that of feeling like an "outcast" and seeking companionship. Some men may also be disturbed and have kept it to themselves because they have learned society won't support them, and now they believe they've found a kindred spirit ('Natural Born Killers' or "Bonnie and Clyde' kind of thing). Similarly, and even more sinister, the men may be looking for a 'damaged' soul whom they feel they can bend to their will, but who is capable of a certain depravity. They could develop a sexual kink in which the only way they can get off is through fantasizing about a violent criminal, so actually making that fantasy reality then becomes extremely attractive (I guess this one could be true of both genders, but again, this is the speculation section of my response...). Another contributor could be the George Costanza Principle: choosing the ultimate unavailable object of affection. A man who is emotionally unavailable or otherwise feeling unable to fully commit to a proper relationship, what better target than a woman in prison forever?

Lastly, I realize this whole response was presented through a heteronormative lens. That's just how the research is, and it was easier to write it that way too. No offence intended.

[Deleted]

This isn't something seen only in women

[Ripperologist]

May 8, 2018 17:20:20 GMT @surfergirl said:

This isn't something seen only in women

I once had a friend who treated Charles Manson like a rock star. He even had a t shirt with Manson's face on it. In my teenage mind I rationalized this as "Robbie doesn't believe Manson is guilty". One day I asked him, but no, Rob said "Nah man, the guys a psycho! He did all that stuff."

But then again, I've been accused of the same glorification of crime because of my true crime interest. To me "Ripperologist" is homage to all those who seek to solve the Ripper mystery. I can see how some people don't get it.

[rkz]

May 7, 2018 23:11:54 GMT cerulean said:

Incel in the house.

Yup, we are seeing MRA and incel trolls trying to be “stealthy” but they always say things they give them away. For instance, always seeing some kind of gender imbalance that favors or excuses women. I mean the whole point of this post is to talk about how OP feels that the way women discuss or perform True Crime community participation is “wrong.” Is this such a pressing issue to OP that he feels it MUST be addressed?


So long as you’re not intentionally terrorizing people or engaging in any tribute killings, then there really is no “right” way to be into True crime. The only people whose behavior seems “wrong” to me in any of this are the trolls who want to stir up * and drum up controversy for attention.

Edit: so edit, I wrote the word “*” in this post and now the “*” I wrote is an asterisk. Are mods * censoring our goddamn posts now? What a load of bullshit. What would be the point? Aren’t we all adults in this * place? Wow, how utterly stupid this ducking feature is.

[swaglikedracula]

Incel? I have a wife, 2 kids, and a side chick. Nice try though. I guess you assumed I was bashing women or something. Far from it. I'm saying it's a GOOD THING that these women are not so biased and judgemental when it comes to these serial killers, at least on social media. The crucial difference seems to be in that the women who are more knowledgeable about it and have gone more into depth with this stuff are also the ones who loathe serial killers and constantly express how repugnant they find them on boards like this and reddit. So I told you right there that I am not even referring to ALL WOMEN here. D

I also explained in the first post that this is not something exclusive to women. I guess you have men that idolize them too, but the difference seems to be in the numbers. You'd be hard pressed to find the amount of men that idolize Pennywise from IT the way women on Instagram do, for example. Hell, I know a woman who has Manson's face tatted on her butt cheek and an entire bedroom wall with serial killer memorabilia and newspaper clippings. This is a normal woman with a regular life not some freakish creepy weirdo chick on the fringes of society. How many men even know who Jodi Arias is let alone have her pics on their wall and FB cover pics? If you go to somewhere like Instagram you'll see ENTIRE PAGES set up where the likes of Ramirez, Manson, Brady, Gacy, Kemper, Gein, Shipman, etc are posted up and there are tons of comments and likes from women looking at it objectively rather than just labeling them as inhumane evil scum the way the more knowledgeable women on boards like this do.