Who did you think was EAR?...

[sammyt]

May 20, 2018 22:19:13 GMT @slaphappy said:

May 20, 2018 20:12:26 GMT sammyt said:

Mr Y was my main POI, and I was so wrong about him... I owe an apology to everyone here who tried to tell me that Mr Y had been cleared.

I said I thought there was around a 30% chance that Y was EARONS, but that if he wasn't, then EAR would be a similar type.

An older offender, Vietnam vet, a physical changeling responsible for the Visalia Ransackings, prowled with a younger brother on occasion, well educated, wealthy, married to a successful woman, living outside the main attack areas, visiting family when he attacked in Irvine.

I was like 'Any of N' in that I thought EAR couldn't have been a cop... they were all checked, and it would have been too obvious etc etc...

I thought EAR was most likely a career military man who retired young. I thought EAR was adopted, and had no children, blood siblings, or criminal record, as there was never a match in Codis.

Having said all that, I wouldn't have been that surprised if EAR had turned out to have been a 20 year career criminal punk, who was already sitting in a jail cell from the late 80s... it was always that sort of a case.

Without telling me mr. y's identity, what made mr. y so nefarious? I was a long time lurker but the mr. y folder was a members only folder and by the time I got brave enough to participate the folder was removed. I've seen people discuss mr. y but never any description of what made him such a good poi. Mr. Y is just as shadowy a figure to me as ear/ons was. what where the key points that made mr. y a poi?

if this question is inappropriate at this point, let me know and I will remove it.

I think it's safe to mention him now we know about JJD...


He was adopted into a very wealthy family as a baby.

High ranking air force, war hero, Vietnam veteran, trained pilot.

He moved back home to Visalia in the mid 70s and soon became a suspect for the Visalia ransackings.



His fingerprints were allegedly found at three VR crime scenes.


He attended COS, at the same time as Claude Snelling was a professor there. 


His wife was at UCI at the same time as Keith Harrington.



He worked at Mather AFB at the same time as Brian Maggiore (actually working high up within the very unit which enlisted Maggiore).


He knew EAR victim #49 Abraham Himmel from their military days (and at one stage actually lived only 209ft away from him in California).


He lived a stone's throw away from Person Z (the alleged owner of 'Woofy').



He also knew the family of Michael Manier (the owner of the mysterious Oldsmobile).

The only person to be put forward independently as VR and EAR suspects.

Owned property all over the place, including near all of the ONS crime scenes.

Fitness fanatic who looked years younger than his real age.

Was allegedly cleared by DNA on 2-4 occasions.



Don't believe the hype next time you hear a detective say there's no such thing as coincidence in serial cases.

Poor Mr Y - he really was the unluckiest guy ever, and has always conducted himself with a quiet dignity.

[tilomagnet]

It is truly incredible how anyone could have so many connections to THREE related crime sprees and NOT be the actual perp! Coupled with his 'Nam ordeal, this person must have some of the worst luck ever encountered by man!

[sycamore]

I never had my own poi but i liked Russell Bostons and one of Mike Morfords for a while. I joined this site a few years ago. Tripped over here from Mikes zodiackillersite.  i`m more into codes.  Anyways got caught up in the map thingy, then started chasing two rabbits at the same time. BUT i reckon i got the map right "the Danville Mercantile  Livery shopping center and Remington loop"  (in my opinion)  but it really is a moot point now.  Hopefully the location will be revealed one day, if in fact it was even his.  I am happy with this  arsehats arrest but cautious to its exculpatory complications. I am hoping all goes well and the flood gates of prosecutions for these evil f### heads open.. actually they must all be shitting bricks right now. It is a frustrating time with the limited information coming out but that is to be expected.. The best thing is that joey cant hurt anyone physically any more. 
hang tough all the victims.
cheers
jono out

[eggirl]

When I was watching one of the recent shows on EAR and they interviewed a writer who did an update piece on the case in mid 2000s (Sacramento Magazine) I got a funny feeling. He looked like my idea of an age-progressed EAR if he had completely stayed in shape. Kind of a Crocadile Dundee. It also seemed like he acted a little funny to some of the questions. I think he may have been the POI that Michelle eliminated when she had lunch with him and took a discarded dna sample. She mentions this in the book, with no further details, but I can't imagine any POI she would have lunch with other than a fellow writer. I'm sure those who follow the case and the shows closely know who I mean. Glad it wasn't him! In the interview he even says it was his idea to write the update, he pitched the story, so that would have been over the top bold for the real EAR.

YES, there were an extremely large number of potential POIs who checked a lot of boxes. I remember one that "Archie" from the A&E board was interested in--the one who moved to Colorado--and it was hard to accept it was not him even after both Cal and Colorado cleared him by dna. You do get tunnel vision, and you think nobody could have this many coincidences and not be the guy. It was sad how long it took LE to clear some of them, and notify the tipsters (like two years in some cases, and they were viable--not just "my next door neighbor looks like the sketches and gives me the creeps.")--Sacramento Survivor, Appreciate Everybody's Help

PS Considering JJD's behavior, "My neighbor yells like a crazy man in his back yard" might have been a great tip.

[tongue]

May 20, 2018 22:19:13 GMT @slaphappy said:

May 20, 2018 20:12:26 GMT sammyt said:

Mr Y was my main POI, and I was so wrong about him... I owe an apology to everyone here who tried to tell me that Mr Y had been cleared.

I said I thought there was around a 30% chance that Y was EARONS, but that if he wasn't, then EAR would be a similar type.

An older offender, Vietnam vet, a physical changeling responsible for the Visalia Ransackings, prowled with a younger brother on occasion, well educated, wealthy, married to a successful woman, living outside the main attack areas, visiting family when he attacked in Irvine.

I was like 'Any of N' in that I thought EAR couldn't have been a cop... they were all checked, and it would have been too obvious etc etc...

I thought EAR was most likely a career military man who retired young. I thought EAR was adopted, and had no children, blood siblings, or criminal record, as there was never a match in Codis.

Having said all that, I wouldn't have been that surprised if EAR had turned out to have been a 20 year career criminal punk, who was already sitting in a jail cell from the late 80s... it was always that sort of a case.

Without telling me mr. y's identity, what made mr. y so nefarious? I was a long time lurker but the mr. y folder was a members only folder and by the time I got brave enough to participate the folder was removed. I've seen people discuss mr. y but never any description of what made him such a good poi. Mr. Y is just as shadowy a figure to me as ear/ons was. what where the key points that made mr. y a poi?

if this question is inappropriate at this point, let me know and I will remove  a

[tongue]

May 21, 2018 13:07:53 GMT sycamore said:

I never had my own poi but i liked Russell Bostons and one of Mike Morfords for a while. I joined this site a few years ago. Tripped over here from Mikes zodiackillersite.  i`m more into codes.  Anyways got caught up in the map thingy, then started chasing two rabbits at the same time. BUT i reckon i got the map right "the Danville Mercantile  Livery shopping center and Remington loop"  (in my opinion)  but it really is a moot point now.  Hopefully the location will be revealed one day, if in fact it was even his.  I am happy with this  arsehats arrest but cautious to its exculpatory complications. I am hoping all goes well and the flood gates of prosecutions for these evil f### heads open.. actually they must all be shitting bricks right now. It is a frustrating time with the limited information coming out but that is to be expected.. The best thing is that joey cant hurt anyone physically any more. 
hang tough all the victims.
cheers
jono out

Care to give some info on Mike Mordfords POI? Not his name but general info about him, why he was thought to be Ear Ons etc

[kg]

My POI:

Family members saw resemblance to sketches

Gave relatives bad vibe

Age 66

Fit physical description

Had bicycle accident for which he did not seek medical treatment, claimed no insurance but it resulted in disability

Doesn’t seem to want his picture taken as evidenced in photos, not looking at camera in group photos for no good reason

Abused by a stepmother as a child

Really smart

Unlikely to be picked up in crime database, no criminals in the family

Father in the service

Addresses around LA
Saw short writing sample which made me think SDA like the poem

I understand the folks who couldn’t work up the courage to report because they weren’t absolutely certain it was him. But you have to realize, it isn’t your job to be certain, you decide to report if you have some factors that create suspicion, then it is LE that has to determine where to go with it.

[bronwyn]

My POI lived in SB, Goleta, and Rocklin, where Sierra College is located. Was in the Navy during the Vietnam War, also worked as a ranch hand and briefly owned his own ranch in NorCal. His home in Goleta was across the street from Mountain View School. Married a girl from Sac. Wealthy family, had no apparent employment after selling his ranch and moving back to Goleta. Family once owned a car dealership and also did commercial development projects.

Sometimes I wonder if this person might be the missing Goleta connection, that he met JJD in the Navy and they stayed in touch. Perhaps he offered JJD some employment opportunities after JJD was fired? They are the same age. My POI's family was so wealthy that when he married, apparently the wedding was attended by some celebrities and important politicians. Still am intrigued by him.

[cherylh]

SammyT wrote: "Don't believe the hype the next time you hear a detective say there's no such thing as coincidence in serial cases."

Yes. Saying there's no such thing as coincidence in like saying there's no such thing as gravity.

People are usually surprised at the number of connections they can have with persons they've never met. A statistician once took me through a series of connections between random people, as a means of showing that many detectives who think they see meaningful connections just don't understand the frequency of commonalities between people.

He was able to show some 50 things that connected a particular man in Los Angeles to a murder victim. It seemed amazing -- that guy had to be the killer! But he wasn't. He was just a guy chosen at random.

And that's just looking at actual, real data points. When you consider the number of "facts" that people try to force into patterns that the facts don't actually fit, these types of mistakes get even wilder.



I had my own POI. He came to my attention when he started posting in an internet group I was part of, a group dedicated to a shared background. He posted extremely creepy stuff about women, some directed at women on the site. He thought he was being flirty and "chivalrous." It was disturbing. Another woman suggested to me that he sounded like a serial killer. So I did some checking on him. Found out he had substantial ties to the EAR and ONS regions and had spent time there during the periods when the crimes were taking place. And, his family owned property within a couple hour's drive of Visalia.

He was 20 in 1975. Extremely bright in high school, but left early due to bizarre, inappropriate behavior, much of it directed at women. He would show up in public places, like the beach, cracking a bullwhip close to groups of young girls, and say things like, "I'm going to whip you all into righteousness."

Family was extremely religious, members of a small fundamentalist Christian sect. He hates Catholics and Jews, as well as all minorities. He says yoga is a gateway to Satanism.
He says he doesn't believe in sex outside marriage. He's never been married but claims to be an expert on sex. He claims he had a girlfriend who was "promised" to him when they were little kids. But she was murdered. Though sometimes when he tells the story, she's from a Catholic family and was stolen by the Catholic church to be a nun.

He writes online fiction depicting rape and other violent sexual encounters. I haven't read it, but in an overview of his work he writes that he believes rape leads to meaningful relationships and marriage, because any "pure" woman must be raped if she is to have sex at all. He claims a mature, "normal" man doesn't want to touch a woman's naked breasts because doing so will cause him to see the woman as a maternal figure instead of a sexual object.

He claims to be an expert on computers, astronomy, ham radios and flood control/water resources. He claims he's walked and ridden bikes and motorcycles "everywhere" in California. He's never held down a regular job for long, and for years relied on his parents for support. They bought a small business in a rural area as a means of getting income in retirement and giving him a place to work. It's along a route taken by a lot of travelers. He got a reputation for being a friendly, helpful guy to people passing through -- but also someone who creeped out women and couples, and who, in his "helpfulness," could become inappropriately intrusive. Even to the point of being stalkerish. He gets lots of mentions in blogs written by travelers -- many of whom warn others to watch out for this guy.

He became, at least for a while, a gadfly in local political circles. He likes to write letters to the editor of newspapers complaining about how society is falling apart due to lack of moral values and the influence of minorities and unions.

He used to try to socialize with people who shared his hobbies. A local astronomy club kicked him out and warned members against going alone on star-gazing outings with him. There were specific warnings about letting him near female children.

He's never wrong. He'll argue any point to death. Even simple spelling errors are defended as being the true, right way to spell a word. He claims to be a genius -- to the point of being one of the most intelligent people who has ever existed. He's always just on the verge of a huge financial windfall due to an invention, a company he's starting, or a TV project he's producing.

He says he's a crack shot and if any law enforcement officer tries to step foot on his property, they'll find out how good a shot he is.



Okay, so he's not the EARONS. He's something, though.

[eggirl]

Cheryl, Holy Cow the guy sounds like trouble. Hope he never has children or we might eventually be reading about them being rescued after years of being imprisoned and starved, like those two families recently.

[sycamore]

May 21, 2018 17:52:43 GMT tongue said:

May 21, 2018 13:07:53 GMT sycamore said:

I never had my own poi but i liked Russell Bostons and one of Mike Morfords for a while. I joined this site a few years ago. Tripped over here from Mikes zodiackillersite.  i`m more into codes.  Anyways got caught up in the map thingy, then started chasing two rabbits at the same time. BUT i reckon i got the map right "the Danville Mercantile  Livery shopping center and Remington loop"  (in my opinion)  but it really is a moot point now.  Hopefully the location will be revealed one day, if in fact it was even his.  I am happy with this  arsehats arrest but cautious to its exculpatory complications. I am hoping all goes well and the flood gates of prosecutions for these evil f### heads open.. actually they must all be shitting bricks right now. It is a frustrating time with the limited information coming out but that is to be expected.. The best thing is that joey cant hurt anyone physically any more. 
hang tough all the victims.
cheers
jono out

Care to give some info on Mike Mordfords POI? Not his name but general info about him, why he was thought to be Ear Ons etc

no not really.. pm morf13 and he might. he was a good poi and looked like a composite. mike discounted him quite a while ago as being earons. 
cheers

[fatelvis]

May 19, 2018 17:47:13 GMT tongue said:

  Obviously no one had Deangelo in their sights but many of us had different POIs throughout the years..I don't want any names of actual POIs of course but I woukd like a general description of the POI you thought had or could be EAR..I always enjoyed reading about different POIs abd the reasons why people suspected they were a notorious serial rapist and murderer..so, by all means go ahead and give me a brief description  of your poi..

  And of course please tell us WHy you thought this guy was EAR!

a lot of people on here worked really hard on their POI'S. But we were working off of wrong information. Wrong sketches. And wrong LE assumptions and assertions.

You also have to realize that about half of people's POI'S on this board materialized because:

- they got enamored with the case.

- they then joined the Board

- they then got obsessed with the case

- they then decided they had a weird uncle that acted wierd sometimes and used to live in California.


Seriously what are the odds of that?

So I appreciate your POI question and I hope for the sake of curiosity you get answers from legitimate people because there was a bunch of legitimate ones here. But I swear half of them were like such: all the sudden they think Uncle Willie is the East area rapist.

Just check out the POI threads and then look at what those people said prior to suddenly having a POI.

[cherylh]

Fatelvis -- Yes, that's the way people's minds work. Mine works that way, too. Only I try to be aware of it.

I'm pretty sure my POI is one disturbed dude. But even as I lined up connections between him and EARONS, I knew the chances he was actually the guy were not good.

But then, I also buy the occasional lottery ticket, and I know the odds involved in that endeavor, too.

We all tend to see significance and meaning in random things.

And, we are prone to lining up connections that maybe shouldn't be lined up. Among my reasons for thinking my POI was the guy was the fact that his parents owned property a couple hours drive from Visalia.

But when you think about it, a lot of places are a couple hours drive from Visalia.

[morf13]

May 21, 2018 17:52:43 GMT tongue said:

May 21, 2018 13:07:53 GMT sycamore said:

I never had my own poi but i liked Russell Bostons and one of Mike Morfords for a while. I joined this site a few years ago. Tripped over here from Mikes zodiackillersite.  i`m more into codes.  Anyways got caught up in the map thingy, then started chasing two rabbits at the same time. BUT i reckon i got the map right "the Danville Mercantile  Livery shopping center and Remington loop"  (in my opinion)  but it really is a moot point now.  Hopefully the location will be revealed one day, if in fact it was even his.  I am happy with this  arsehats arrest but cautious to its exculpatory complications. I am hoping all goes well and the flood gates of prosecutions for these evil f### heads open.. actually they must all be shitting bricks right now. It is a frustrating time with the limited information coming out but that is to be expected.. The best thing is that joey cant hurt anyone physically any more. 
hang tough all the victims.
cheers
jono out

Care to give some info on Mike Mordfords POI? Not his name but general info about him, why he was thought to be Ear Ons etc

I had a handful, 2 that were very promising, in the end....they were not EAR

[Any of N]

A future book should list some of the best POI's. Names not necessary -- merely the boxes they checked off so excellently well. Nothing could make the point better. Investigate a case long enough and you'll find a few, but none may be the right guy.

As I've said before, this puts a great perspective on other cold cases. Bill James and his daughter (Rachel McCarthy James) may not have found the Villisca axe murderer. Larry Harnish may not have identified the killer of Elizabeth Short, the Black Dahlia. James Jessen Badal may not have nabbed the Cleveland Torso Murderer. What they all found were strong POI's. Impressive, but not definitive. Those of us here on this message board know not to get too excited, no matter how convincing a circumstantial case may appear to be.

This old thread contains links to some examples: Index to POI Discussions