Tension in the Auburn Police Department

[albion]

I think a point that people keep missing is that these crimes werent all rapes and murders. The burglaries far outnumber the known murders and the reported rapes. Whether he seemed like a serial rapist or murderer is irrelevant, or should have been to the chief. With the shoplifting and the items at his home, Willick should have sent Sacramento his name.

The fact that he stole should have been enough. The fact that he came from 10 miles of Visalia, had military training, was a cop, fit the general description, and had copious amounts of unsupervised time while on the job, off sick from the job, or personal, should have been enough for the whole dept. to consider the possibility.

And I will never understand how people can justify the theft of a hammer and dog repellent. Or diminish it in terms of being a signal to LE that he might be someone who is in need of a second look. Whether it was Sacramento or Auburn. They both should have been just a bit curious. They both should have regrets and embarrassment over this. Would he have to have stolen a ski mask, some shoelaces, lotion, some size 9 herringbones, a flashlight, and some matches for anyone to consider the idea?

I dont care how many interviews I see of the Auburn Chief, the Sac Sheriffs, or the Exeter LE, saying how normal JJD seemed, one of them should have been curious enough to check it up. I guaranty that the city of Auburn was reading the Sac newspapers and watching Sacramento television. And that Exeter was reading and watching Visalia media. They all had to know more than the public did. They should have.

"He violated the trust of the people and it was clear from our investigation he'd committed a theft and there's no room in law enforcement for someone who steals," Willick said.
Willick said that at the time, the items DeAngelo stole didn't seem all that unusual.
"Law enforcement would carry dog repellent too because, like a mailman, officers go to doors and dogs chase after them. So it wasn't anything that sent up a red flag," the former police chief said."

[femto]

Jun 21, 2018 0:28:42 GMT albion said:

I think a point that people keep missing is that these crimes werent all rapes and murders. The burglaries far outnumber the known murders and the reported rapes. Whether he seemed like a serial rapist or murderer is irrelevant, or should have been to the chief. With the shoplifting and the items at his home, Willick should have sent Sacramento his name.

DeAngelo was tried in a Sacramento court. Willick didn't need to send his name as Willick probably had as much information on the EAR as your average citizen.

The fact that he stole should have been enough. The fact that he came from 10 miles of Visalia, had military training, was a cop, fit the general description, and had copious amounts of unsupervised time while on the job, off sick from the job, or personal, should have been enough for the whole dept. to consider the possibility.

DeAngelo didn't fit the general description at all, at least from the photos we have of him currently. The only sketches that resemble him are the Maggiore revised and the VR, both of which were extremely debated if they were the EAR or not.


I don't know about you guys, but if I read in a newspaper that some guy shoplifted at most i'll just say "Wow, this guy has probably shoplifted before.", but I definitely won't say "Wow, this guy is probably a serial rapist (or a killer) in another town". 

[spodey]

Jun 21, 2018 0:28:42 GMT albion said:

I think a point that people keep missing is that these crimes werent all rapes and murders. The burglaries far outnumber the known murders and the reported rapes. Whether he seemed like a serial rapist or murderer is irrelevant, or should have been to the chief. With the shoplifting and the items at his home, Willick should have sent Sacramento his name.

The fact that he stole should have been enough. The fact that he came from 10 miles of Visalia, had military training, was a cop, fit the general description, and had copious amounts of unsupervised time while on the job, off sick from the job, or personal, should have been enough for the whole dept. to consider the possibility.

And I will never understand how people can justify the theft of a hammer and dog repellent. Or diminish it in terms of being a signal to LE that he might be someone who is in need of a second look. Whether it was Sacramento or Auburn. They both should have been just a bit curious. They both should have regrets and embarrassment over this. Would he have to have stolen a ski mask, some shoelaces, lotion, some size 9 herringbones, a flashlight, and some matches for anyone to consider the idea?

I dont care how many interviews I see of the Auburn Chief, the Sac Sheriffs, or the Exeter LE, saying how normal JJD seemed, one of them should have been curious enough to check it up. I guaranty that the city of Auburn was reading the Sac newspapers and watching Sacramento television. And that Exeter was reading and watching Visalia media. They all had to know more than the public did. They should have.

"He violated the trust of the people and it was clear from our investigation he'd committed a theft and there's no room in law enforcement for someone who steals," Willick said.
Willick said that at the time, the items DeAngelo stole didn't seem all that unusual.
"Law enforcement would carry dog repellent too because, like a mailman, officers go to doors and dogs chase after them. So it wasn't anything that sent up a red flag," the former police chief said."

This is part of the reason LE didn't/couldn't hunt too hard among their ranks back then.

earonsgsk.proboards.com/thread/7359/peace-officer-bill-rights-slow

[cleopatra]

Jun 18, 2018 14:53:14 GMT goldcountry said:

Chief Willick apparently feels some regret about Auburn's failure to protect the public: ktla.com/2018/04/30/i-feel-personally-embarrassed-ex-police-chief-says-of-learning-he-worked-with-accused-golden-state-killer/

No problem, Chief, we all make mistakes. The doctor cut off my right arm by accident, so after the left one was amputated I ended up with no arms.  Thank goodness I have these toes I can still use to type with.

Fortunately for you, Chief, neither your own wife or any of your daughters when they were teenagers were held hostage all night long and raped by the EAR.  And that neither your brother and his wife, or your son and his wife, or any of your other family members were bludgeoned to death in their own bedrooms by your former subordinate.   

Le is supposed to be knowledgeable about putting 2 + 2 together, especially when there happens to be a wave of crime going on that's being committed by one man, that's causing fear and danger throughout an entire city and its surrounding cities.  The cops should be aware, so they could be on alert in order to keep their citizens safe from the madman, and if possible, be on the lookout for such a madman in case they could contribute any piece of information that might help lead to his capture.

 

[cleopatra]

Jun 21, 2018 1:15:17 GMT femto said:

Jun 21, 2018 0:28:42 GMT albion said:

I think a point that people keep missing is that these crimes werent all rapes and murders. The burglaries far outnumber the known murders and the reported rapes. Whether he seemed like a serial rapist or murderer is irrelevant, or should have been to the chief. With the shoplifting and the items at his home, Willick should have sent Sacramento his name.

DeAngelo was tried in a Sacramento court. Willick didn't need to send his name as Willick probably had as much information on the EAR as your average citizen.

The fact that he stole should have been enough. The fact that he came from 10 miles of Visalia, had military training, was a cop, fit the general description, and had copious amounts of unsupervised time while on the job, off sick from the job, or personal, should have been enough for the whole dept. to consider the possibility.

DeAngelo didn't fit the general description at all, at least from the photos we have of him currently. The only sketches that resemble him are the Maggiore revised and the VR, both of which were extremely debated if they were the EAR or not.


I don't know about you guys, but if I read in a newspaper that some guy shoplifted at most i'll just say "Wow, this guy has probably shoplifted before.", but I definitely won't say "Wow, this guy is probably a serial rapist (or a killer) in another town". 

Here's about me of "you guys":

If I did read in a newspaper that some guy shoplifted at most I wouldn't even think or say anything at all.  But if I continued to read and it said the guy was a COP, and that the items stolen were DOG REPELLANT and a HAMMER, and that he worked for the AUBURN P.D. but for some reason was in CITRUS HEIGHTS and shoplifting on GREENBACK LANE...….

whether or not I would have been right or wrong or paranoid, I wouldn't have cared!  I'd have called Sac PD and said, "Hey, I know the EAR raped women in a couple of homes on GREENACK LANE in CITRUS HEIGHTS and also in some other homes right nearby Pay N'Save on GREENBACK LANE, and that the guy is a white male, 5'10-6" , anywhere between 20-30 years old, 160 lbs, and breaks into houses and STEALS things.  I think this is something worth looking at:  I  read in the papers that a COP with the Auburn PD had been arrested for shoplifting dog repellant and a hammer...…... 

[cleopatra]

Jun 19, 2018 14:40:14 GMT rkz said:

Jun 18, 2018 23:38:15 GMT almagata said:

When framing up the environment surrounding decisions that were made related to law enforcement in the Sacramento area choosing to open their eyes to Joseph Deangleo possibly being the East Area Rapist, we all have to remember what else was going on in the state and the country at that time.

When you look back at the old newspapers, you see political protests over the Vietnam War that was "officially" terminated in 1975.  There were bombings and bank robberies conducted by the SLA and the Weatherman.  Nixon had resigned following the Watergate scandal. 

The country was on the edge of civil war and the politicians and law enforcement were struggling to present an image of safety and respectability. 

The last thing either the politicians or law enforcement needed was for the public to know that that a serial rapist burglar was a sworn police officer. 

Admitting the East Area Rapist was a cop would have had huge political ramifications for the Sacramento region, state and potentially the nation. 

I respect everything you post here a lot, so I feel weird about having to quibble about something you posted, but I feel like there needs to be some kind of caveat to this post.

The country was not on the edge of civil war. In 1976? 1977? The Bicentennial was around this same time and was a wildly popular cause for celebration. The more revolutionary or violent strands of rhetoric from the 60s New Left had been tempered quite a bit from the heady days of 1968-71 - with the Chicago Dem Convention of 68, the Kent and Jackson State incidents, Nixon's invasion of Cambodia, etc., the country was probably much closer to any kind of widespread civil unrest during the 1968-71 period than it would be 1975-79. McGovern's electoral defeat in 1972, combined with a surge of popularity for Nixon throughout most of late 1971-early 1973 killed off much of the revolutionary fervor; the economic crises of 1973 (food prices soaring, oil shortages, etc.) further drove nails into the New Left's coffin. Furthermore, many Vietnam vets came home between 1968-75 with heroin habits, and the drug had essentially swallowed the inhabitants of many inner cities - this last factor killed off the Black Power movement fairly effectively (if in-fighting among the leadership of the Black Panthers hadn't already killed it).

By 1975, what was left of the New Left's revolutionary thrust in mainstream culture had also died for the most part. There were still scattered bombings and terrorist actions, but those actions no longer had any real support from what remained of the 60s counterculture. A few diehards from Weatherman and other New Left groups continued to try to sustain the spark of the late 60s counterculture uprising. But stuff like the SLA's kidnapping of Patty Hearst drove many ostensible liberals toward the center or even right wing. David Horowitz's switch from a Black Panther supporter and New Left agitator to a Reagan Republican around 1976 was emblematic of how far away the possibility of a genuine civil war was by 1975-76. By that time, many liberals and conservatives alike were trying to move past the Watergate scandal and past the failed revolutionary tenor of the previous age. It was more a time of drawing inward and "finding oneself" rather than of fighting in the streets. The numbers of people turning out for protests became smaller and smaller and smaller. By the official end of the war in April 1975, there were barely any protests or celebrations marking that milestone. There was a fair-sized turnout for a protest/celebration in NYC after the war ended, but nationwide, the end of the war was met with a resigned sigh.

But dovetailing with that was a almost wholly new desire on the part of the public to not be lied to. If the EAR had been revealed as a cop back then, the news would have fit in perfectly with the tenor of the times - cynical, distrustful of authority, reform-minded. By the mid-70s, people were getting used to the idea that authority figures from all sides had been lying to them about important issues for a long time. This is why Jimmy Carter enjoyed such popularity: people wanted an upright, guileless, honest-seeming politician who was wholesome and spoke of renewal. Because by 1976, there was far more news stories about general crime - rape, murder, burglary, arson, etc. - than there were about terrorism or revolutionary protest movements, and by then, THAT'S more what people were scared of. I'm not sure how EAR being a cop would impact the nation as a whole, but I doubt that that news would have undermined the public's trust in their governments and authority figures, because by 1976-77, the public had, by and large, already experienced that loss of trust and innocence. The story of a rogue rapist/killer cop in 1976-77 would have just been yet another cynical news story in an atmosphere thick with cynical news stories.

I don't think that authorities in CA sat on the news of EAR being a cop because they thought it might trigger a revolution; I genuinely think they were just kind of clueless about how one of their own had outfoxed them. I don't think they knew - which seems pathetic in retrospect, but unfortunately all too likely, and if they WERE suppressing news of it, it was out of a desire to save face, not out of a desire to prevent a nationwide general strike or something like that. Somehow I just don't see anyone already inclined to protest becoming radicalized any further by the news of a rogue cop out in Sacramento; the EAR series barely made the news outside the areas he attacked. So it's doubtful that the impact would be all that deep, politically or socially.

That's all good stuff that you wrote there, rkz.

Can someone help me out on this:

Is it normal for the police to go to the homes of people who shoplift and search?  I've never heard of that.

Could the search have been for some other reason? 

[femto]

Jun 21, 2018 2:54:23 GMT cleopatra said:

]If I did read in a newspaper that some guy shoplifted at most I wouldn't even think or say anything at all.  But if I continued to read and it said the guy was a COP

Would it have been relevant if he was a credit analyst? You keep suggesting that EAR being a cop was firmly established when it was not. I can name you at least 10 occupations, possibly even more, that were more relevant to the EAR and had way more clout and were much more discussed than the cop angle. Turns out trabuco was completely right, but back then that was just another theory. We were all shooting in different directions.

and that the items stolen were DOG REPELLANT and a HAMMER

Again, you're assuming that these items were any relevant to the EAR. Both of those items, especially the hammer, are extremely common household items. Everyone has a hammer at home. And both of those items, as of now, don't hold any relevancy towards the EAR. Willick himself says that cops carried/still carry these. And even though I don't know that much about what cops carry or carried in the past, It seems completely logical given that they often deal with aggressive dogs.

and that he worked for the AUBURN P.D. but for some reason was in CITRUS HEIGHTS and shoplifting on GREENBACK LANE...….]

That is something, at least. I'll give you that.

whether or not I would have been right or wrong or paranoid, I wouldn't have cared!  I'd have called Sac PD and said, "Hey, I know the EAR raped women in a couple of homes on GREENACK LANE in CITRUS HEIGHTS and also in some other homes right nearby Pay N'Save on GREENBACK LANE, and that the guy is a white male, 5'10-6" , anywhere between 20-30 years old, 160 lbs, and breaks into houses and STEALS things.  I think this is something worth looking at:  I  read in the papers that a COP with the Auburn PD had been arrested for shoplifting dog repellant and a hammer...…... 

Call me sceptical, but I doubt they would have taken any action. I mean, I don't know, do you call the cops on anyone who you've heard shoplifted or do some other petty/minor crime and accuse them of killing and raping people? Don't get me wrong, this is not sarcastic, I'm genuinely curious.

Your profile is a little wrong, also. DeAngelo was 34 at the time of the shoplifting, more than 10 years than what the EAR was believed to be. And I know this wasn't a certain fact or anything, but that is a pretty substantial difference.

[cleopatra]

Jun 21, 2018 3:44:22 GMT femto said:

Jun 21, 2018 2:54:23 GMT cleopatra said:

]If I did read in a newspaper that some guy shoplifted at most I wouldn't even think or say anything at all.  But if I continued to read and it said the guy was a COP

Would it have been relevant if he was a credit analyst? You keep suggesting that EAR being a cop was firmly established when it was not. I can name you at least 10 occupations, possibly even more, that were more relevant to the EAR and had way more clout and were much more discussed than the cop angle. Turns out trabuco was completely right, but back then that was just another theory. We were all shooting in different directions.

and that the items stolen were DOG REPELLANT and a HAMMER

Again, you're assuming that these items were any relevant to the EAR. Both of those items, especially the hammer, are extremely common household items. Everyone has a hammer at home. And both of those items, as of now, don't hold any relevancy towards the EAR. Willick himself says that cops carried/still carry these. And even though I don't know that much about what cops carry or carried in the past, It seems completely logical given that they often deal with aggressive dogs.

and that he worked for the AUBURN P.D. but for some reason was in CITRUS HEIGHTS and shoplifting on GREENBACK LANE...….]

That is something, at least. I'll give you that.

whether or not I would have been right or wrong or paranoid, I wouldn't have cared!  I'd have called Sac PD and said, "Hey, I know the EAR raped women in a couple of homes on GREENACK LANE in CITRUS HEIGHTS and also in some other homes right nearby Pay N'Save on GREENBACK LANE, and that the guy is a white male, 5'10-6" , anywhere between 20-30 years old, 160 lbs, and breaks into houses and STEALS things.  I think this is something worth looking at:  I  read in the papers that a COP with the Auburn PD had been arrested for shoplifting dog repellant and a hammer...…... 

Call me sceptical, but I doubt they would have taken any action. I mean, I don't know, do you call the cops on anyone who you've heard shoplifted or do some other petty/minor crime and accuse them of killing and raping people? Don't get me wrong, this is not sarcastic, I'm genuinely curious.

Your profile is a little wrong, also. DeAngelo was 34 at the time of the shoplifting, more than 10 years than what the EAR was believed to be. And I know this wasn't a certain fact or anything, but that is a pretty substantial difference.

femto,

It would not have been relevant in the least if the shoplifter was a credit analyst or of any other profession, or even unemployed or a paroled felon, for that matter.  It would have been for the very SPECIFIC reason that the shoplifter was a COP that would have caught my attention. 

The Auburn Journal Newspaper believed the incident warranted publication for a reason. It didn't publish it to report a mere shoplifting incident. It had to do with the fact that a COP, a POLICE OFFICER, a LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, broke the law.  The article also described the way the shoplifter-officer reacted when he was caught -  stating that DeAngelo had to be strapped to a chair and was in quite a state. Those are other very good reasons for concern. 

Dog repellant is not a household item.  You stated that Willick himself said officers are provided with dog repellant.  Now that right there would have been another big red flag.  If the department provided that item to its officers, why did DeAngelo have to STEAL some?  That's just one of the concerns with the dog repellant.  And the fact that there was a madman serial rapist out there who was known to PROWL the neighborhoods, neighborhoods full of dogs, extensively before entering a home, and even homes with dogs were not deterring him. 

 

The Auburn Journal also reported that DeAngelo began working for Auburn PD in 1976 right at the same time the EAR attacks began.  A detail the Police Chief would have known from reviewing JJD's files. After which attacks occurred at least 1-2 times per week for the next three years throughout the entire SF Bay area starting from the East Bay and moving all the way as far down as San Jose and back, until one last EAR attack which occurred on July 5, 1979.  A week later DeAngelo got caught shoplifting and after that all EAR attacks came to a complete and sudden halt. 

His age was the least reason for suspicion. 

I would have called Sac PD and given DeAngelo's name whether or not I thought they would act on my tip. Yes, maybe it would have been paranoia or overly suspicious, but had I not called, it would have always bothered me.  It would have been better to be safe than sorry.

[femto]

Jun 21, 2018 5:43:19 GMT cleopatra said:

femto,
It would not have been relevant in the least if the shoplifter was a credit analyst or of any other profession, or even unemployed or a paroled felon, for that matter.  It would have been for the very SPECIFIC reason that the shoplifter was a COP that would have caught my attention. 

Sure. That's something. But it really has no relevance to the EAR no matter how much you try to pull it.

The Auburn Journal Newspaper believed the incident warranted publication for a reason. It didn't publish it to report a mere shoplifting incident. It had to do with the fact that a COP, a POLICE OFFICER, a LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, broke the law.  The article also described the way the shoplifter-officer reacted when he was caught -  stating that DeAngelo had to be strapped to a chair and was in quite a state. Those are other very good reasons for concern. 

Not really. First, when I read a newspaper there's usually pretty irrelevant stuff. Newspapers usually have to fill their pages with all kinds of stuff. The fact that he is a cop is interesting, but at the end of the day it's just a shoplifting of some irrelevant items. As I said in my previous post, DeAngelo tried to fight the shoplifting in court so it seems he himself didn't believe they'd have anything to connect to him considering he himself tried to bring even more attention to himself. The state he was in can be easily explained by the fact he just lost his job and this would be a big embarrassment for him to his wife, friends, family and colleagues. We're talking about a guy who preferred to risk getting shot rather than surrender to McGowen.

Dog repellant is not a household item.

Dog repellant is a household items. You can even find tutorials on youtube how you can build a homemade one. I don't know about its popularity since I don't have the need to use one, but it's definitely nothing out of the ordinary.

  You stated that Willick himself said officers are provided with dog repellant.  Now that right there would have been another big red flag.  If the department provided that item to its officers, why did DeAngelo have to STEAL some?  That's just one of the concerns with the dog repellant.

Why did he need to steal the hammer? They're dirt cheap, you can even make them at home. A hammer is also a necessity in every house. And I'm sure he other had hammer(s) in his house. Why did he steal them? I prefer to go with his explanation "Because he could.". He didn't need them, he didn't care for them. He only took them to prove some point of his. I assume that's why he did the rapes and murders, aside from the other reasons like the terror and the thrill he got from it.

  And the fact that there was a madman serial rapist out there who was known to PROWL the neighborhoods, neighborhoods full of dogs, extensively before entering a home, and even homes with dogs were not deterring him

The homes the EAR attacked were usually those with small dogs. In most of the attacks they barked at him but they didn't really attack him. This is really not something out of character from small dogs.

The Auburn Journal also reported that DeAngelo began working for Auburn PD in 1976 right at the same time the EAR attacks began.  A detail the Police Chief would have known from reviewing JJD's files. After which attacks occurred at least 1-2 times per week for the next three years throughout the entire SF Bay area starting from the East Bay and moving all the way as far down as San Jose and back, until one last EAR attack which occurred on July 5, 1979.  A week later DeAngelo got caught shoplifting and after that all EAR attacks came to a complete and sudden halt. 

Sure. But first you have to research DeAngelo as a suspect in order to delve that deeper into his past history. I don't know how much you've read about the Zodiac and specifically Arthur Leigh Allen, but that guy has so many circumstantial evidence against him it's insane. Literally pages upon pages that fit with where he was during the location of the attacks, how he looekd, his interests, etc. And yet as far as hard evidence goes - nothing. DNA doesn't match, fingerprints don't match, handwriting doesn't match. You see where I'm going with this? Circumstantial evidence is just that - circumstantial.

His age was the least reason for suspicion. 

Because you ignore it in hindsight of what you know. Back then the age would have been a big thing.

I would have called Sac PD and given DeAngelo's name whether or not I thought they would act on my tip. Yes, maybe it would have been paranoia or overly suspicious, but had I not called, it would have always bothered me.  It would have been better to be safe than sorry.

And I applaud you for it. Paranoia is good.  It might save your life or that of someone else in the future. I myself am quite paranoid. But that's not what I asked. I asked you if you've ever done that before, and if so - what happened?

[cleopatra]

😲😫😩😨

That's probably the same way Auburn P.D. rationalized things. Good cops are sharp, have good analytical skills, and are always on the ball, and would have definitely recognized the red flags I mentioned .

A dirty cop is dangerous. A cop who shoplifts is a dirty cop. Shoplifting is a crime. Cops are law enforces, they're not supposed to be law breakers.

Your way of thinking just doesn't jive with mine. However, I do respect your thoughts and feelings on this subject.

[almagata]

I sure would like to see a copy of the search warrant for the when the Auburn PD searched JJD's house following the shoplifting arrest where they found the stolen items described by Willick.

I can't imagine JJD or Sharon Huddle allowing a search without a warrant. Was the warrant out of Sacramento to Placer County Courts? If it was out of Placer County Courts, does it mean that Placer County also was considering charges against JJD for other crimes?

[htx]

Jun 21, 2018 11:58:54 GMT almagata said:

I sure would like to see a copy of the search warrant for the when the Auburn PD searched JJD's house following the shoplifting arrest where they found the stolen items described by Willick.

I can't imagine JJD or Sharon Huddle allowing a search without a warrant. Was the warrant out of Sacramento to Placer County Courts? If it was out of Placer County Courts, does it mean that Placer County also was considering charges against JJD for other crimes?

Yeah, this is what isn't adding up for me. I don't see any way that a judge would allow for a search warrant on a house for a simple shoplifting charge, where the thief was caught in the act in the store with the goods still on him - what, exactly, would they be searching for? That would have to be specified in the warrant itself.

And I don't see any way that JJD would (1) let them into the house to search if he had any incriminating evidence lying around, or (2) keep piles of obviously stolen items lying in plain view.

I also don't know how the Auburn PD would know any of the goods were stolen, without some additional information.

The story first emerged from an interview with Holes, and I remember thinking when I first saw it that it was a little unclear; I actually thought he might have been saying that stolen goods were found when the house was searched this past April, after JJD's arrest.

[htx]

Jun 21, 2018 7:16:09 GMT femto said:

Jun 21, 2018 5:43:19 GMT cleopatra said:

Sure. But first you have to research DeAngelo as a suspect in order to delve that deeper into his past history. I don't know how much you've read about the Zodiac and specifically Arthur Leigh Allen, but that guy has so many circumstantial evidence against him it's insane. Literally pages upon pages that fit with where he was during the location of the attacks, how he looekd, his interests, etc. And yet as far as hard evidence goes - nothing. DNA doesn't match, fingerprints don't match, handwriting doesn't match. You see where I'm going with this? Circumstantial evidence is just that - circumstantial.

Exactly. On this board alone, there were literally dozens of POIs developed, most of whom had more circumstantial evidence suggesting they could have been EAR/ONS than JJD. Heck, even if one were specifically thinking about the EAR/ONS case, you may not spend much time dwelling on DeAngelo. The folks at 12-26-75 claim that they looked at DeAngelo as a VR suspect when they were checking out the idea that the VR was a cop, but they quickly passed him by because he was about a decade older than all of the accounts suggested the VR would be.

[traceranger]

Just going through all this banter about the items he stole and the red flags that should of/ could of come up if LE pressed. I just thought between the lines here... think for a second about it (now again, I'm just a poster whos throwing another iron in the furnace)... WHAT IF, he wasn't caught.

Specifically, what were these for? Was there a certain target he had in mind he wanted to use the hammer on??/ and this person had a dog. I know he hadn't been killing with a hammer however this MIGHT of ended up being the beginning of another twist in his application of his crimes. Then again, he just needed a hammer at home and Dog Repellant on the job; if so why did he steal them??

[EaglesNumberOne]

Jun 21, 2018 14:50:24 GMT htx said:

Jun 21, 2018 11:58:54 GMT almagata said:

I sure would like to see a copy of the search warrant for the when the Auburn PD searched JJD's house following the shoplifting arrest where they found the stolen items described by Willick.

I can't imagine JJD or Sharon Huddle allowing a search without a warrant. Was the warrant out of Sacramento to Placer County Courts? If it was out of Placer County Courts, does it mean that Placer County also was considering charges against JJD for other crimes?

Yeah, this is what isn't adding up for me. I don't see any way that a judge would allow for a search warrant on a house for a simple shoplifting charge, where the thief was caught in the act in the store with the goods still on him - what, exactly, would they be searching for? That would have to be specified in the warrant itself.

And I don't see any way that JJD would (1) let them into the house to search if he had any incriminating evidence lying around, or (2) keep piles of obviously stolen items lying in plain view.

I also don't know how the Auburn PD would know any of the goods were stolen, without some additional information.

The story first emerged from an interview with Holes, and I remember thinking when I first saw it that it was a little unclear; I actually thought he might have been saying that stolen goods were found when the house was searched this past April, after JJD's arrest.

I believe there were stolen goods in his home during the time where he was arrested for shoplifting. I did not have a long conversation with my father in this topic, and given the questions raised here I’m going to ask him more about it, but he did mention that his coworkers thought that JJD was stealing stuff and returning it to other places for cash. He did not mention to me how they developed that theory, but I had assumed it was from the result of the search that was done on his home. I doubt the search was done with a warrant and may have just been done as a condition for him to keep his job in the initial phases of their investigation after his arrest and maybe JJD thought he would survive this and if he could explain unopened merchandise boxes as stuff he had bought and had no trophies around he may have felt a search would be ok. That is conjecture on my part, but I will ask for more details to see if any of the other officers shared with him the story of how they developed the theory that he was stealing and returning items for cash.