JJD Would Call in Sick at Auburn PD

[EaglesNumberOne]

Jun 17, 2018 18:04:58 GMT bob said:

It wasn't just one shoplifting accusation. 

His chief went to his house and found other stolen merchandise. And did nothing about it.

Everyone knew that VR could be EAR. Why did no one ever compare the Visalia area phone books with the Sacramento area phone books? Sac was big. But the Visalia area wasn't. They could have had a short list in less than 2 months.

I believe LE officers should be held to a higher standard. Is that fair? Yes. Because they ask for a higher standard of response from citizens whom they pull over, grill at random, and infringe upon during the execution of their duties. And those duties are dangerous to them, and we understand that, so we try to be civil and tolerate these little intrusions - like having someone knock on your door and ask for a DNA swab, or getting grilled when you've been pulled over (just making conversation) etc.

But in return for that public trust, I believe they should have to take DNA tests for employment. There are plenty of other jobs that require drug tests, fingerprinting, etc.

I worked as a massage therapist for a while (500 hours training, shiatsu, acupressure etc.) and in one state I had to get fingerprinted. -Because of all those massage therapists who are serial killers? Or because there's a prejudice that MT's are probably prostitutes? Which also doesn't make sense, cause I don't think they're lifting print off penises. Right? So it's not like it's unfair.  
Forensics has to rule out extra DNA and extra fingerprints anyway. They need that on file.

There are a couple problems with this post. First, nobody in Auburn would have been aware of the VR crimes. Even if they had reason to believe that JJD was a thief, if they had looked into Exeter they wouldn’t have found anything. They’d have to jump to looking into the neighboring town of Visalia. That’s not an easy jump and would they have to of linked shoplifting and stolen goods to the MO of the Ransacker, which on the surface do not seem similar.

Linking him to the EAR series is even more of a leap. Sacramento didn’t even believe the VR was the EAR and they had hundreds of POIs, which of the ones that have surfaced in the literature, they certainly seem to have had credible candidates. Auburn would of had no reason to throw JJD into that mix of looking for a serial rapist operating that far away, and on the basis of shoplifting and stolen goods...big stretch.

Totally agree about LE being held to a higher standard, but linking JJD’s actions to these crimes would have a really hard thing to do. Auburn fired him for shoplifting and we can theorize about the alleged stolen goods and how that could of pushed them to look more, but at some level I bet they were glad to be able to get rid of him and had built up the case they needed to do so. They certainly had a department to run and cases that they probably thought were more important to be working on. He was arrested in Sacramento so if anything the cops there would have been the most likely to link him to the EAR crimes...but again for what...shoplifting? Way too much of a stretch.

And there wasn’t any DNA testing at that time. I believe they now do have to provide DNA as a condition of employment. I’d be shocked if that wasn’t the case.

[maxxcat2018]

Jun 17, 2018 18:30:34 GMT Red909XMZ1 said:

Eagles and Maxx,

I sincerely hope neither one of you is ever the victim of a horrific, life-altering crime, where the LE you encounter is literally as dumb as a bag of rocks, and they do not even have a clue as how to solve it.

I never said, Maxx, that they knew he was the GSK. I was being facetious in my post today about how it often seems easier for LE to take the path of least resistance, as is often the case in many professions.

-Red

Your snark aside, it's really hard no matter how much stolen stuff they find, to link that to GSK. Even more complicated to do without DNA technology, etc.  You were basically asking people to take a leap because we here on forums do the same. 

[EaglesNumberOne]

Jun 17, 2018 19:24:33 GMT Red909XMZ1 said:

EaglesNumberOne,

I am so sorry if I offended you in any way in my original, facetious post. If I did, I hope you will accept my deepest apology. I bet your father was an incredibly upstanding, special officer, and you, a proud son.

I totally understand and appreciate the feeling, Eagles. I have family and friends who are special officers/agents, too. I guess that is why it is so disheartening to encounter the extreme opposite, especially when you have been the victim of a terrible crime.

It is so true that all professions have their bad apples. I am so happy that you and I have had at least good examples we can refer to in our own families.

Thank you for starting this highly significant thread. I hope you have a very enjoyable Father's Day with your Pop, Eagles.

-Red

Thanks and definitely no offense taken. No apologies required . There are definitely bad people in every profession. I just wanted to add a little bit more information to the story from what I had heard.

[Red909XMZ1]

Hi Eagles,

Thank you so much for being so touchingly kind and such an unbelievable class act, Eagles. I really deeply appreciate it, and am so glad you are a member of our forum.

-Red

[Deleted]

Jun 17, 2018 19:02:59 GMT zorro said:

The fact that EAR attacks stopped cold in the Sacramento area after Deangelo's shoplifting arrest says a lot to me.
It's hard for me to believe none of his co-workers made the connection. Like oldguy said 'the force was with him' - The Auburn Police Force.
Someone was 'looking the other way' at the least.

One thing my dad told me when I was a child that stuck with me was "Cops are lazy; that's why they're cops." I think nowadays the level of professionalism in LE has risen along with the pay, but back then cops were not all that great. As Shelby noted, one of his POI's was getting disability from the state for mental illness, and was making more per month on this check than the cops were getting, and the POI didn't have to work.

[femto]

Jun 17, 2018 19:47:45 GMT EaglesNumberOne said:

Jun 17, 2018 18:04:58 GMT bob said:

It wasn't just one shoplifting accusation. 

His chief went to his house and found other stolen merchandise. And did nothing about it.

Everyone knew that VR could be EAR. Why did no one ever compare the Visalia area phone books with the Sacramento area phone books? Sac was big. But the Visalia area wasn't. They could have had a short list in less than 2 months.

I believe LE officers should be held to a higher standard. Is that fair? Yes. Because they ask for a higher standard of response from citizens whom they pull over, grill at random, and infringe upon during the execution of their duties. And those duties are dangerous to them, and we understand that, so we try to be civil and tolerate these little intrusions - like having someone knock on your door and ask for a DNA swab, or getting grilled when you've been pulled over (just making conversation) etc.

But in return for that public trust, I believe they should have to take DNA tests for employment. There are plenty of other jobs that require drug tests, fingerprinting, etc.

I worked as a massage therapist for a while (500 hours training, shiatsu, acupressure etc.) and in one state I had to get fingerprinted. -Because of all those massage therapists who are serial killers? Or because there's a prejudice that MT's are probably prostitutes? Which also doesn't make sense, cause I don't think they're lifting print off penises. Right? So it's not like it's unfair.  
Forensics has to rule out extra DNA and extra fingerprints anyway. They need that on file.

There are a couple problems with this post. First, nobody in Auburn would have been aware of the VR crimes. Even if they had reason to believe that JJD was a thief, if they had looked into Exeter they wouldn’t have found anything. They’d have to jump to looking into the neighboring town of Visalia. That’s not an easy jump and would they have to of linked shoplifting and stolen goods to the MO of the Ransacker, which on the surface do not seem similar.

Linking him to the EAR series is even more of a leap. Sacramento didn’t even believe the VR was the EAR and they had hundreds of POIs, which of the ones that have surfaced in the literature, they certainly seem to have had credible candidates. Auburn would of had no reason to throw JJD into that mix of looking for a serial rapist operating that far away, and on the basis of shoplifting and stolen goods...big stretch.

Totally agree about LE being held to a higher standard, but linking JJD’s actions to these crimes would have a really hard thing to do. Auburn fired him for shoplifting and we can theorize about the alleged stolen goods and how that could of pushed them to look more, but at some level I bet they were glad to be able to get rid of him and had built up the case they needed to do so. They certainly had a department to run and cases that they probably thought were more important to be working on. He was arrested in Sacramento so if anything the cops there would have been the most likely to link him to the EAR crimes...but again for what...shoplifting? Way too much of a stretch.

And there wasn’t any DNA testing at that time. I believe they now do have to provide DNA as a condition of employment. I’d be shocked if that wasn’t the case.

I completely agree. Problem is many people here think of those old days with our current technology. Back then cops couldn't just browse the wiki page for the East Area Rapist and connected him to the VR or DeAngelo himself. The flow of information simply wasn't that easy.

DeAngelo is nothing like what the EAR was described. Literally the only reasonable sketch that resembles him greatly is for a crime that many people, cops or otherwise, didn't believe was done by the EAR (the Maggiore murders). And shoplifting some items that may or may not have any relation to the EAR, IMO, isn't even enough to put him in the spotlight. Keep in mind that the police, and even many members here, had way better POI's as far as the EAR profile goes - criminal records for burglaries, the right age, the right facial features, the right state of mind. DeAngelo didn't tick that many boxes of the EAR.

If you want to look at an incompetent police work in our present year, look at the Delphi Murders. That's what i'd call incompetent. This here is your average police work. Nothing amazing, but definitely nothing that I would classify as 'bad' or him having inside help. Let's also keep in mind that DeAngelo wasn't your average schmuck of a criminal. If he knew how far the DNA evidence would progress, I doubt he'd have even left his DNA at the crime scene.

[riverstorum]

Oh I see we are still on the "HEY! LE invesigated every single other profession besides their own what ELSE were they supposed to do?! Do you know how much time it takes to clear every realtor in California?!" kick, huh? Well wake me up when someone decides to take some responsibility for their failings.

[claudius_2014]

Jun 17, 2018 19:02:59 GMT zorro said:

The fact that EAR attacks stopped cold in the Sacramento area after Deangelo's shoplifting arrest says a lot to me.
It's hard for me to believe none of his co-workers made the connection. Like oldguy said 'the force was with him' - The Auburn Police Force.
Someone was 'looking the other way' at the least.

THERE was rumors that some told ear to get out of sacramento

[cleopatra]

Jun 17, 2018 14:36:35 GMT EaglesNumberOne said:

I posted this over on the Reddit board yesterday, but I had a conversation with my dad who was Auburn PD starting in 79 (I’ve described that story in another thread) and he shared that in conversations he had with his friends that had worked with JJD in Auburn that JJD would call in sick quite a bit. In fact, the officers apparently would go out and check up on him when he did at least some of the times and he was often not home. My father does believe they would have his attendance records because that was one set of materials they were never allowed to get rid of.

The other thing I probed on was the subject of where he lived. My father had also been shown JJDs house by a realtor when we were moving up to Auburn. He does know that he lived on or right next to Auburn Ravine RD, and he thinks it was on a culde sac named Granite Ln, but he’s not 100% certain that it was Granite Ln.

Eaglesnumber1,

Thank you for sharing this tidbit if information.  Every little bit helps in solving this mysterious and complex puzzle. 

Cleo

[themeasurer]

Just want to say that at several police departments where I've worked (non-uniformed position), it was a rule that the officers *could not wear their uniforms until they got to work.* Now, that being said, this was the stance of progressive departments (but in small towns too).

That's for a bunch of reasons, but in the 70's, there was research and publicity about how families of police had a harder time (more divorce, more abuse) when the cops were allowed to wear their uniforms at home. Many reasons, but kids were more anxious in those homes and more likely to have issues that their parents found to be a problem.

So progressive departments (I am most familiar with Los Gatos and Palo Alto), said "Your uniform stays at work." It also kept officers from...creeping...while in their uniforms.

I'm guessing Auburn did not do this (nor Exeter) but it would be interesting to know.

DeAngelo may have been intimidating his family while in uniform (since so many kids-of-cops reported their fathers were intimidating and I personally know of a couple). At any rate, divorce and substance abuse problems among cops are lower when the uniforms are kept at work and there's a locker room/changing room.

[EaglesNumberOne]

Jun 17, 2018 21:28:55 GMT claudius_2014 said:

Jun 17, 2018 19:02:59 GMT zorro said:

The fact that EAR attacks stopped cold in the Sacramento area after Deangelo's shoplifting arrest says a lot to me.
It's hard for me to believe none of his co-workers made the connection. Like oldguy said 'the force was with him' - The Auburn Police Force.
Someone was 'looking the other way' at the least.

THERE was rumors that some told ear to get out of sacramento

No way he had help on the inside. That would be ridiculous. I can’t imagine anyone knowing this guy was the EAR and then helping him out. You’d have to be a pretty sick individual yourself to not turn him in if you had that info.

[EaglesNumberOne]

Jun 17, 2018 20:53:19 GMT riverstorum said:

Oh I see we are still on the "HEY! LE invesigated every single other profession besides their own what ELSE were they supposed to do?! Do you know how much time it takes to clear every realtor in California?!" kick, huh? Well wake me up when someone decides to take some responsibility for their failings.

They did investigate their own. Did you not see my post about Kovacich? Remember we’re talking about shoplifting here and they did fire him. I suspect, but don’t know for sure, that they used all the extra info they had on him to prevent him from appealing and making sure he wouldn’t be able to collect pay. And Sacramento clearly didn’t feel the need to pursue him more and that is where he was arrested. At some level, you have to triage and prioritize. Do you want to make sure you have the resources to solve violent crimes that may have been pending or spend time on a shoplifting cop? Fire him and get rid of him so you can get back to work. I’d be willing to bet that after the stalking incident, which you’d have to have proof to nail him on, that Willick probably sent him a really strong message about showing up around Auburn ever again.

Again, I’m just hypothesizing, but we know he wasn’t liked and I doubt they felt they were doing him any favors when they canned him.

[EaglesNumberOne]

Jun 17, 2018 21:59:26 GMT themeasurer said:

Just want to say that at several police departments where I've worked (non-uniformed position), it was a rule that the officers *could not wear their uniforms until they got to work.* Now, that being said, this was the stance of progressive departments (but in small towns too).

That's for a bunch of reasons, but in the 70's, there was research and publicity about how families of police had a harder time (more divorce, more abuse) when the cops were allowed to wear their uniforms at home. Many reasons, but kids were more anxious in those homes and more likely to have issues that their parents found to be a problem.

So progressive departments (I am most familiar with Los Gatos and Palo Alto), said "Your uniform stays at work." It also kept officers from...creeping...while in their uniforms.

I'm guessing Auburn did not do this (nor Exeter) but it would be interesting to know.

DeAngelo may have been intimidating his family while in uniform (since so many kids-of-cops reported their fathers were intimidating and I personally know of a couple). At any rate, divorce and substance abuse problems among cops are lower when the uniforms are kept at work and there's a locker room/changing room.

My dad did have his uniform on in the house at times. Not very often, but I do remember it.

[EaglesNumberOne]

Jun 17, 2018 14:36:35 GMT EaglesNumberOne said:

I posted this over on the Reddit board yesterday, but I had a conversation with my dad who was Auburn PD starting in 79 (I’ve described that story in another thread) and he shared that in conversations he had with his friends that had worked with JJD in Auburn that JJD would call in sick quite a bit. In fact, the officers apparently would go out and check up on him when he did at least some of the times and he was often not home. My father does believe they would have his attendance records because that was one set of materials they were never allowed to get rid of.

The other thing I probed on was the subject of where he lived. My father had also been shown JJDs house by a realtor when we were moving up to Auburn. He does know that he lived on or right next to Auburn Ravine RD, and he thinks it was on a culde sac named Granite Ln, but he’s not 100% certain that it was Granite Ln.

Another poster reached out to me and indicated that there was an address of 1200 Granite Lane associated with the family. The house closest to the pin on Google maps for that address is the house my dad pointed at last night when we were discussing this.

[cleopatra]

Jun 17, 2018 19:50:13 GMT maxxcat2018 said:

Jun 17, 2018 18:30:34 GMT Red909XMZ1 said:

Eagles and Maxx,

I sincerely hope neither one of you is ever the victim of a horrific, life-altering crime, where the LE you encounter is literally as dumb as a bag of rocks, and they do not even have a clue as how to solve it.

I never said, Maxx, that they knew he was the GSK. I was being facetious in my post today about how it often seems easier for LE to take the path of least resistance, as is often the case in many professions.

-Red

Your snark aside, it's really hard no matter how much stolen stuff they find, to link that to GSK. Even more complicated to do without DNA technology, etc.  You were basically asking people to take a leap because we here on forums do the same. 

Police officers, especially detectives, sergeants and supervisors are held to a higher standard.  They take exams to see if they are better qualified than the average citizen.  They are put through special training. 

So I cannot get over, or forgive for that matter, the Auburn Police Chief who was JJD's former supervisor and Sargeant at the time when JJD shoplifted and was arrested, had a trial where a jury found JJD guilty, had lots of stolen goods/property in his house most of which were electronics, investigate JJD, had complete knowledge of JJD's background through his personnel file, ...and he NEVER once turned in JJD's name. Especially after listening to the Police Chief’s interviews. Even if he didn’t do it back in 1979, there were still the next 30 years full of additional information, that he failed to act.

A few things the Police Chief told the interviewer:

“Well, the profile said the guy they were looking for was military-special forces..”

“There was nothing to say, no indicators, to say he [JJD] was a serial murder.”

“He [JJD] liked cars, but there was nothing that would lead us to believe he [JJD] was involved in criminal activities.”

Q: “Would you call him a good cop?”   A: “Just average.”

“He [JJD] didn't fit the description of a mass murderer or serial rapist, although sometimes it’s just the person next door.”

Q: Were you aware of the EAR crimes back then?   A: “Definitely. A lot of people were concerned. It was on T.V., in the newspapers, lots of people were talking about it, there was a lot of fear, and Sac is close to Auburn, but still....”

Q: [about his firing]  A: “We conducted our own investigation....”

“[EAR] crimes continued after he was fired. Nothing slowed down. If anything, they exhilarated.”

“Many LE, police investigators, FBI, and all LE put thousands of hours into this investigation...I'm glad they finally caught him.”

“If only there was something we could have seen to indicate.....”

“One of my officers who sometimes partnered with him [JJD] told me he [JJD] said he [JJD] wanted to kill me and that he [JJD] actually went to my house to do it but he [JJD] couldn't get through my bedroom window.”

What profile said the EAR was in special forces?  The Police Chief said that the crimes continued after JJD was fired in 1979, but we know that’s inaccurate from the standpoint in time he was referring to. The murders in SoCal weren’t connected to the EAR for another 15 years. After JJD was fired, the EAR attacks immediately seized.

The Police Chief had privy to JJDs personnel file, which would have shown JJD once lived in Visalia, Tulare, and worked in Exeter, Tulare. JJD's application would have shown JJD got an Associate’s Degree in Police Science in 1970 from Sierra College in Rocklin, which is near SACRAMENTO, then a Bachelor’s Degree in Criminology in 1972 from SACRAMENTO State. The Police Chief knew JJD was proficient with firearms, had a baton, wore shiny black round-toed boots, used small flash lights, served in the Navy so knew how to tie DIAMOND KNOTS, that JJD was a Vietnam Vet, had irregular work hours and a lot of nights free, frequently called in sick. He knew JJD’s weight, skin tone, and body build, that JJD was very AGILE - the Police Chief mentioned that JJR participated in many Department outdoor sporting events/fund raisers and appeared to be very ATHLETIC. Most importantly, the Police Chief knew JJD STOLE DOG REPELLANT and had lots of STOLEN goods at his house.

Who has ever even heard of Visalia prior to this case? How is it that this Police Chief did not recognize a red flag knowing that JJD used to live and work in such an unknown place? It was mostly known for the VR, for an attempted murder on an Exeter cop, and for the murder of a college professor? I bet the Police Chief didn't know any other person or officer on his force who lived or worked in Tulare! And if he did, that the person also had many of those other details possibly linking him to the EAR.

If this Police Chief was as sharp as he should have been for being a Sargant, he would have known about the,

- VR, who was active while JJD was in Tulare and stopped when JJD left,
- Snelling’s murder in September 1975,
- McGowen getting shot in December 1975,
- JJD being hired at the same time the EAR attack started in 1976,
- In 1979 the EAR attacks stopped, right after JJD shoplifted,
- JJD shoplifted right in the heart of the EAR attack zone.

A lot of us board members had POIs with half of those details, characteristics and job and residence locations - POIs whose backgrounds we kept digging into. And lots of people who knew other people with so much less found it their duties to call in tips.  Perhaps a layman may not put 2+2 together regarding the VR and Sac, but this is a professional LE.  Even Officer McGowen suspected the VR was the EAR, and after he became a detective, he went to SAC and was looking at photos of newly hired officers in various PDs in 1976.  McGowen was so close!  This isn't to say that the Police Chief should have known that JJD was the EAR or the VR.   However, he could have had a slight inkling that all these details could mean something and then just turn in his name and let the LE handling the case look into it.  That's all he had to do.  That's what I did. That's what lots of us did.  That's what lots of people did, with names of men who had a lot less!  Had I, or any board members here who were actively helping to unmask this madman been in possession of the information the Police Chief had, WE'D HAVE TURNED IN JJD'S NAME!!!!!

In my opinion, there was a big failure by Auburn P.D. to protect the public. Others at the Auburn PD also had to have been familiar with the contents of JJD’s personnel file, the fact that he shoplifted dog repellant and a hammer, and that there were a lot of stolen items found in his house, and they too remained silent.

I hate to say this and I'm sorry for having to say it, but this is disgraceful. It’s disheartening, shameful and unforgiveable.