JJD Would Call in Sick at Auburn PD

[oldguy]

Jun 17, 2018 17:15:11 GMT arlington said:

As noted in numerous posts, it wasn't just the shoplifting that probably should've resulted in ole Joe getting scrutinized, but the totality of things. Nobody is saying someone aware of the shoplifting should've pronounced DeAngelo as the EAR, only that the totality of things, which again has been elaborated in some depth, should've led to his name being turned in or looked at closer.

Recall this is one of the greatest manhunts in history, 40+ years of massive resources dedicated and presumably all leads chased down. It's unfathomable that an Auburn cop with ties to Vasilia and Ranch Cordova, busted for shoplifting, wanting to kill the cop who fired him, with perfect timelines, in a case where there was suspicion of the perp being a cop, didn't somehow get looked at.

Chief Willick seems to have been aware of more of these dynamics then anyone else, and now he's embarrassed DeAngelo was a cop on his force.

Arlington: you have said it exactly. Exactly!

Except, alas, it is not unfathomable (i.e., "incapable of being understood") rather it is egregious. From the Chief on down, guys on Auburn PD knew JJD was way outside the norm. Deceitful, disdainful of boundaries and capable of grossly inappropriate behavior utterly redolent of EAR. (How else do you describe prowling and looking into a young girl's bedroom?)

The material in this thread answers for me two questions I have pondered: 1. How did a patrol officer have so much time off on weekends (43% of date recorded sightings while on prowl were Friday and Saturday nights) and; 2. How did someone whose crimes evidenced severe personality disorders manage to accrue time in an LE job?

The answer to #1 above is the tolerated gross abuse of sick time and the answer to both #1 and #2 above is a weak management structure in Auburn PD.

I have known a lot of cops and worked with some (detectives). From them and my brother's 25 years on Philly PD I have learned of a lot of bad behavior; punching a sergeant, sleeping on duty, drinking on duty, excessive force, taking bribes..all of it was the kind of stuff that just happens with people who work under great stress and in extraordinary circumstances. But prowling the Chief's house and looking into his  daughter's bedroom?? No, that is of an entirely different order of magnitude.

It is like the difference between cops responding to a bar call and managing to stay a while to watch the pole dancers- on the one hand...and a cop responding to a domestic and staying to watch the 10 year old daughter undress for bed...on the other hand. One is just cops and the other is florid perversion.

I now wonder..how many of JJD's documented abuses of sick leave were concurrent with EAR attacks and/or reported sightings of EAR like prowlers?

The Chief and supervisors of Auburn PD were very aware of the Sacramento area rape attacks. It must have been discussed among themselves..around the watercolor and in interagency training sessions. And no one looked outside the box?

[cleopatra]

Jun 17, 2018 23:41:09 GMT @bribri said:

Jun 17, 2018 23:06:11 GMT cleopatra said:

So I cannot get over, or forgive for that matter, the Auburn Police Chief who was JJD's former supervisor and Sargeant at the time when JJD shoplifted and was arrested, had a trial where a jury found JJD guilty, had lots of stolen goods/property in his house most of which were electronics, investigate JJD, had complete knowledge of JJD's background through his personnel file, ...and he NEVER once turned in JJD's name.

Sorry for asking but I haven't read or heard anything about electronics. Is there any way you can give me a link to where you heard/read this (soooo sorry to ask)?  I was under the impression that he had a lot of hammers (and I can't even find a link about that).

I believe it was posted somewhere on this board.  I'll see if I can find it.

[cleopatra]

Jun 17, 2018 23:33:19 GMT oldguy said:

Jun 17, 2018 17:15:11 GMT arlington said:

As noted in numerous posts, it wasn't just the shoplifting that probably should've resulted in ole Joe getting scrutinized, but the totality of things. Nobody is saying someone aware of the shoplifting should've pronounced DeAngelo as the EAR, only that the totality of things, which again has been elaborated in some depth, should've led to his name being turned in or looked at closer.

Recall this is one of the greatest manhunts in history, 40+ years of massive resources dedicated and presumably all leads chased down. It's unfathomable that an Auburn cop with ties to Vasilia and Ranch Cordova, busted for shoplifting, wanting to kill the cop who fired him, with perfect timelines, in a case where there was suspicion of the perp being a cop, didn't somehow get looked at.

Chief Willick seems to have been aware of more of these dynamics then anyone else, and now he's embarrassed DeAngelo was a cop on his force.

Arlington: you have said it exactly. Exactly!

Except, alas, it is not unfathomable (i.e., "incapable of being understood") rather it is egregious. From the Chief on down, guys on Auburn PD knew JJD was way outside the norm. Deceitful, disdainful of boundaries and capable of grossly inappropriate behavior utterly redolent of EAR. (How else do you describe prowling and looking into a young girl's bedroom?)

The material in this thread answers for me two questions I have pondered: 1. How did a patrol officer have so much time off on weekends (43% of date recorded sightings while on prowl were Friday and Sa*ay nights) and; 2. How did someone whose crimes evidenced severe personality disorders manage to accrue time in an LE job?

The answer to #1 above is the tolerated gross abuse of sick time and the answer to both #1 and #2 above is a weak management structure in Auburn PD.

I have known a lot of cops and worked with some (detectives). From them and my brother's 25 years on Philly PD I have learned of a lot of bad behavior; punching a sergeant, sleeping on duty, drinking on duty, excessive force, taking bribes..all of it was the kind of stuff that just happens with people who work under great stress and in extraordinary circumstances. But prowling the Chief's house and looking into his  daughter's bedroom?? No, that is of an entirely different order of magnitude.

It is like the difference between cops responding to a bar call and managing to stay a while to watch the pole dancers- on the one hand...and a cop responding to a domestic and staying to watch the 10 year old daughter undress for bed...on the other hand. One is just cops and the other is florid perversion.

I now wonder..how many of JJD's documented abuses of sick leave were concurrent with EAR attacks and/or reported sightings of EAR like prowlers?

The Chief and supervisors of Auburn PD were very aware of the Sacramento area rape attacks. It must have been discussed among themselves..around the watercolor and in interagency training sessions. And no one looked outside the box?

arligton and oldguy,

You are both right on target!  This is all so disturbing. 

In the Police Chief's interview he kept reiterating that there were "no indications" of any unusualness about Joe.  Does this mean that Auburn cops do questionable and unlawful acts and it's just typical?  Threatening to kill a sergeant isn't serious?  Attempted murder of a superior officer isn't reason to be a little suspicious?  People get fired for lots of reasons and they are furious at their supervisor who fired them, but they don't threaten to murder them and then go to their homes at night to murder them!

JJD was caught shoplifting on GREENBACK LANE, right where several EAR attacks occurred, and where JJD had no reason to be since he lived in Roseville and worked in Auburn. 

As for the stolen goods found in his home.  I wonder which house that was?  I wonder if some of the items that JJD stole from his victims homes were there too?  If so, the police who went there may have actually seen them and not known they belonged to his victims. 

[EaglesNumberOne]

Jun 17, 2018 23:06:11 GMT cleopatra said:

Jun 17, 2018 19:50:13 GMT maxxcat2018 said:

Your snark aside, it's really hard no matter how much stolen stuff they find, to link that to GSK. Even more complicated to do without DNA technology, etc.  You were basically asking people to take a leap because we here on forums do the same. 

Police officers, especially detectives, sergeants and supervisors are held to a higher standard.  They take exams to see if they are better qualified than the average citizen.  They are put through special training. 

So I cannot get over, or forgive for that matter, the Auburn Police Chief who was JJD's former supervisor and Sargeant at the time when JJD shoplifted and was arrested, had a trial where a jury found JJD guilty, had lots of stolen goods/property in his house most of which were electronics, investigate JJD, had complete knowledge of JJD's background through his personnel file, ...and he NEVER once turned in JJD's name. Especially after listening to the Police Chief’s interviews. Even if he didn’t do it back in 1979, there were still the next 30 years full of additional information, that he failed to act.

A few things the Police Chief told the interviewer:

“Well, the profile said the guy they were looking for was military-special forces..”

“There was nothing to say, no indicators, to say he [JJD] was a serial murder.”

“He [JJD] liked cars, but there was nothing that would lead us to believe he [JJD] was involved in criminal activities.”

Q: “Would you call him a good cop?”   A: “Just average.”

“He [JJD] didn't fit the description of a mass murderer or serial rapist, although sometimes it’s just the person next door.”

Q: Were you aware of the EAR crimes back then?   A: “Definitely. A lot of people were concerned. It was on T.V., in the newspapers, lots of people were talking about it, there was a lot of fear, and Sac is close to Auburn, but still....”

Q: [about his firing]  A: “We conducted our own investigation....”

“[EAR] crimes continued after he was fired. Nothing slowed down. If anything, they exhilarated.”

“Many LE, police investigators, FBI, and all LE put thousands of hours into this investigation...I'm glad they finally caught him.”

“If only there was something we could have seen to indicate.....”

“One of my officers who sometimes partnered with him [JJD] told me he [JJD] said he [JJD] wanted to kill me and that he [JJD] actually went to my house to do it but he [JJD] couldn't get through my bedroom window.”

What profile said the EAR was in special forces?  The Police Chief said that the crimes continued after JJD was fired in 1979, but we know that’s inaccurate from the standpoint in time he was referring to. The murders in SoCal weren’t connected to the EAR for another 15 years. After JJD was fired, the EAR attacks immediately seized.

The Police Chief had privy to JJDs personnel file, which would have shown JJD once lived in Visalia, Tulare, and worked in Exeter, Tulare. JJD's application would have shown JJD got an Associate’s Degree in Police Science in 1970 from Sierra College in Rocklin, which is near SACRAMENTO, then a Bachelor’s Degree in Criminology in 1972 from SACRAMENTO State. The Police Chief knew JJD was proficient with firearms, had a baton, wore shiny black round-toed boots, used small flash lights, served in the Navy so knew how to tie DIAMOND KNOTS, that JJD was a Vietnam Vet, had irregular work hours and a lot of nights free, frequently called in sick. He knew JJD’s weight, skin tone, and body build, that JJD was very AGILE - the Police Chief mentioned that JJR participated in many Department outdoor sporting events/fund raisers and appeared to be very ATHLETIC. Most importantly, the Police Chief knew JJD STOLE DOG REPELLANT and had lots of STOLEN goods at his house.

Who has ever even heard of Visalia prior to this case? How is it that this Police Chief did not recognize a red flag knowing that JJD used to live and work in such an unknown place? It was mostly known for the VR, for an attempted murder on an Exeter cop, and for the murder of a college professor? I bet the Police Chief didn't know any other person or officer on his force who lived or worked in Tulare! And if he did, that the person also had many of those other details possibly linking him to the EAR.

If this Police Chief was as sharp as he should have been for being a Sargant, he would have known about the,

- VR, who was active while JJD was in Tulare and stopped when JJD left,
- Snelling’s murder in September 1975,
- McGowen getting shot in December 1975,
- JJD being hired at the same time the EAR attack started in 1976,
- In 1979 the EAR attacks stopped, right after JJD shoplifted,
- JJD shoplifted right in the heart of the EAR attack zone.

A lot of us board members had POIs with half of those details, characteristics and job and residence locations - POIs whose backgrounds we kept digging into. And lots of people who knew other people with so much less found it their duties to call in tips.  Perhaps a layman may not put 2+2 together regarding the VR and Sac, but this is a professional LE.  Even Officer McGowen suspected the VR was the EAR, and after he became a detective, he went to SAC and was looking at photos of newly hired officers in various PDs in 1976.  McGowen was so close!  This isn't to say that the Police Chief should have known that JJD was the EAR or the VR.   However, he could have had a slight inkling that all these details could mean something and then just turn in his name and let the LE handling the case look into it.  That's all he had to do.  That's what I did. That's what lots of us did.  That's what lots of people did, with names of men who had a lot less!  Had I, or any board members here who were actively helping to unmask this madman been in possession of the information the Police Chief had, WE'D HAVE TURNED IN JJD'S NAME!!!!!

In my opinion, there was a big failure by Auburn P.D. to protect the public. Others at the Auburn PD also had to have been familiar with the contents of JJD’s personnel file, the fact that he shoplifted dog repellant and a hammer, and that there were a lot of stolen items found in his house, and they too remained silent.

I hate to say this and I'm sorry for having to say it, but this is disgraceful. It’s disheartening, shameful and unforgiveable.

------

As much as I would love for this logic to add up, it just doesn't.   You have a lot of details on these cases and you are making an assumption that Auburn PD would have actively known these details.   The only people who knew the details of the cases were people following the case and the actual teams working the cases.   Auburn wouldn't have been working this case at all.    I'll grant that the EAR stories were in the news but to think that someone at Auburn would be digging into details on the EAR crimes and thinking about them with a goal of trying to solve it is ridiculous.   None of those crimes occurred in Auburn.  So this notion that by reading JJD's personnel file and then making all those connections that you make above simply wouldn't have happened.  You are following this case on a regular basis, they aren't.   You also have the luxury of all the time after he was fired to continue to be interested in this case.   Do you think every LE person in the state was working on this crime?  For crying out loud, if Holes hadn't gone into a dusty file cabinet and pulled out the EAR case files, it's likely this case would still be unsolved.   

And JJD didn't work in Visalia, he worked in Exeter.  So imagine your the chief reading his file and you know he's from Exeter.  Would you immediately think "oh, yeah I remember this whole VR series down there.   Fresno/Visalia/Exeter might as well have been in a different country.  My dad didn't even know about the VR.   I had to tell him about it, but he wasn't there until after JJD was gone.

McGowan was indeed close, but look at where he was.  Smack dab in the middle of the VR zone. Why did he never follow up on his notes to check on Exeter cops?   The Sacramento PD again also had JJD in cuffs right in the middle of the EAR series and no one in the department wanted to look at that and they had all the details on this guy.   I'm sure as part of the prosecution into that case the two agencies had some conversations and yet the link still wasn't made.   They couldn't even make the link to the VR series when Visalia came up and visited them.

There is no way the Chief would of known about Snelling's murder.   He may have heard of the McGowen incident because I'm sure it made the news and it was in LE circles, but it would of just been an event way down in Visalia (again, not Exeter), a blip in the news.  The VR series stopping is only something you know with some time passing and the same is true for the EAR crimes.  Even if a connection there could of been made, it would of taken time for those things to add up.  And I don't really see his arrest in the heart of the EAR zone as a major red flag.   Apparently Sacramento didn't think so either.  How many crimes happened in that zone during that time frame?  Probably a lot, and a lot more that would have gone under more scrutiny for being linked to the EAR as shoplifting.   If it were so obvious, even with the dog repellant and all, why didn't Sacramento just immediately become suspicious?  Because they had plenty more suspicious POIs.  

I haven't see the quote before where the Chief indicated that JJD confided in him about wanting to kill the Chief.  Which interview was that in?  That just seems bizzarro.   If JJD had killed the Chief his gig would of been up, and he would of certainly known that would have been an extremely risky move.   Not to mention that he could have known that Willick would be armed.  

Your argument practically states that anyone who knew that JJD was a cop in Exeter in that time frame and a cop in Auburn in that time frame should of been able to solve this case just on that information alone.   On top of that, it was public knowledge that JJD was fired for shoplifting.   But it didn't happen.  Not even by people who were actively working this case and the amateur detectives.

[seasonedoldlady]

Jun 17, 2018 18:04:58 GMT bob said:

It wasn't just one shoplifting accusation. 

His chief went to his house and found other stolen merchandise. And did nothing about it.

Everyone knew that VR could be EAR. Why did no one ever compare the Visalia area phone books with the Sacramento area phone books? Sac was big. But the Visalia area wasn't. They could have had a short list in less than 2 months.

I believe LE officers should be held to a higher standard. Is that fair? Yes. Because they ask for a higher standard of response from citizens whom they pull over, grill at random, and infringe upon during the execution of their duties. And those duties are dangerous to them, and we understand that, so we try to be civil and tolerate these little intrusions - like having someone knock on your door and ask for a DNA swab, or getting grilled when you've been pulled over (just making conversation) etc.

But in return for that public trust, I believe they should have to take DNA tests for employment. There are plenty of other jobs that require drug tests, fingerprinting, etc.

I worked as a massage therapist for a while (500 hours training, shiatsu, acupressure etc.) and in one state I had to get fingerprinted. -Because of all those massage therapists who are serial killers? Or because there's a prejudice that MT's are probably prostitutes? Which also doesn't make sense, cause I don't think they're lifting print off penises. Right? So it's not like it's unfair.  
Forensics has to rule out extra DNA and extra fingerprints anyway. They need that on file.

For more than 20 years, stockbrokers have had to be fingerprinted and pass FBI background checks, with every day of employment for the previous 10 years (prior to the first background check) listed for the FBI to verify.  

[riverstorum]

Jun 17, 2018 22:23:17 GMT EaglesNumberOne said:

Jun 17, 2018 20:53:19 GMT riverstorum said:

Oh I see we are still on the "HEY! LE invesigated every single other profession besides their own what ELSE were they supposed to do?! Do you know how much time it takes to clear every realtor in California?!" kick, huh? Well wake me up when someone decides to take some responsibility for their failings.

They did investigate their own. Did you not see my post about Kovacich? Remember we’re talking about shoplifting here and they did fire him. I suspect, but don’t know for sure, that they used all the extra info they had on him to prevent him from appealing and making sure he wouldn’t be able to collect pay. And Sacramento clearly didn’t feel the need to pursue him more and that is where he was arrested. At some level, you have to triage and prioritize. Do you want to make sure you have the resources to solve violent crimes that may have been pending or spend time on a shoplifting cop? Fire him and get rid of him so you can get back to work. I’d be willing to bet that after the stalking incident, which you’d have to have proof to nail him on, that Willick probably sent him a really strong message about showing up around Auburn ever again.

Again, I’m just hypothesizing, but we know he wasn’t liked and I doubt they felt they were doing him any favors when they canned him.

Absolutely none of this disproves my point or addresses the numerous issues surrounding these agencies or this offender versus how the rest of the population gets treated by LE. The incompetence/malevolence/"not my fault!" found within the GSK story are not isolated incidents in LE in this country.

Back to snoozing...

[cleopatra]

Jun 17, 2018 23:41:09 GMT @bribri said:

Jun 17, 2018 23:06:11 GMT cleopatra said:

So I cannot get over, or forgive for that matter, the Auburn Police Chief who was JJD's former supervisor and Sargeant at the time when JJD shoplifted and was arrested, had a trial where a jury found JJD guilty, had lots of stolen goods/property in his house most of which were electronics, investigate JJD, had complete knowledge of JJD's background through his personnel file, ...and he NEVER once turned in JJD's name.

Sorry for asking but I haven't read or heard anything about electronics. Is there any way you can give me a link to where you heard/read this (soooo sorry to ask)?  I was under the impression that he had a lot of hammers (and I can't even find a link about that).

bribri, sorry but I don't have time to search for the article I read.  There's too much out there now about JJD.  I do believe that I read it in an archived Auburn newspaper clipping about his trial for shoplifting where he was found guilty by a jury, which mentioned there were stolen goods found at his house after his arrest.

 However, I hope this will help - a quick search brought me back this (I underlined and bolded about the stolen goods):

What Was The Golden State Killer Suspect Joseph DeAngelo Like As A Young Man?
by Gina Tron
May 7, 2018 • 8:21 AM ET
Old coworkers say the former cop was average, aloof and too serious.
Old colleagues said he was aloof and overeducated. He didn't reveal a lot about his personal life, leaving his co-workers in the dark about his dark side.
Joseph DeAngelo, 72, was arrested on April 25 and has been charged with four murders as part of a California crime spree that included at least 12 killings and about 50 rapes.
Now details are emerging about his police officer past. From 1973-1976, he worked as a police officer in Exeter, California, a town of 5,000 with a police squad of less than a dozen officers.
"He was just over-educated for the small department of Exeter,” DeAngelo’s former coworker Farrel Ward told the Los Angeles Times. “He just knew anything you wanted to talk about. I think he had a bachelor's degree, all kinds of training.”
DeAngelo, did, in fact, have a bachelor's degree in criminal justice. He also fought in Vietnam as a Navy soldier, according to The Sacramento Bee.
“He didn't fit in with the other guys,” Ward said. “We liked to joke and screw around and take the stress off of what we were doing. He was always serious."
He told the Los Angeles Times that working with DeAngelo was pleasant but they never really bonded.
"I liked him, but he's not the type of guy that I'd have over for a barbecue. He's just … stand-offish. Too serious. Seems like he's always thinking," he said, adding that he never revealed much about himself. Ward did add that DeAngelo appeared to treat the public well. All the while, he was allegedly stalking and raping and members of the public.

In 1976, DeAngelo transferred to work as a police officer in Auburn. He worked in Auburn for three years until he was fired after he was caught shoplifting a hammer and a can of dog repellent from a drug store.
"Why is a law enforcement officer stealing dog repellent and a hammer?" asked Paul Holes, a recently-retired investigator with the Contra Costa County District Attorney's Office at Crimecon on Friday. "It speaks to a real deficit in him as a person."
Holes said when he was fired, authorities found lots of stolen property in DeAngelo's home, including power tools, still new in boxes.
"It goes to who he is, that he is getting off on getting away with stealing things. He just happened to get caught with the dog repellent and the hammer. He didn't want to bring more attention to himself, so he said okay [to the firing] and moved on."
Although there is no specific information available to the public which reveals that the Golden State Killer used a hammer in any of his killings, he was known to bludgeon victims to death with random objects.
Former Auburn Police Chief Nick Willick fired him but before that incident called him an average cop, according to CBS13 in Sacramento.
“If I remember correctly he didn’t even have a hearing,” Willick reflected about the shoplifting case. “I think he waived his hearing. He was prosecuted and we conducted our own investigation. And we terminated him based on the facts of the case.”
Not long after his arrest, the crime spree reappeared in Southern California, and many of the rapes accelerated to murder. It's not clear where DeAngelo lived during the Golden State Killer's most murderous years: from 1979 and the summer of 1981. That's when police think the killer murdered a dozen people.
In the late '80s, DeAngelo got hired at Save Mart, a grocery-store chain, as a mechanic. He remained employed there for nearly three decades.
A company spokeswoman said in a statement to the New York Daily News that, “None of his actions in the workplace would have led us to suspect any connection to crimes being attributed to him.”
DeAngelo went on to dodge further arrests until 2018. He was known as a suburban father and grandfather, who lived in a quiet neighborhood, Sacramento's Citrus Heights. His brother-in-law, James Huddle, told Oxygen.com that DeAngelo was a “good father.” One of his three daughters and a granddaughter were living with the suspect in his home until his arrest.

[cleopatra]

Jun 18, 2018 1:24:45 GMT EaglesNumberOne said:

Jun 17, 2018 23:06:11 GMT cleopatra said:

Police officers, especially detectives, sergeants and supervisors are held to a higher standard.  They take exams to see if they are better qualified than the average citizen.  They are put through special training. 

So I cannot get over, or forgive for that matter, the Auburn Police Chief who was JJD's former supervisor and Sargeant at the time when JJD shoplifted and was arrested, had a trial where a jury found JJD guilty, had lots of stolen goods/property in his house most of which were electronics, investigate JJD, had complete knowledge of JJD's background through his personnel file, ...and he NEVER once turned in JJD's name. Especially after listening to the Police Chief’s interviews. Even if he didn’t do it back in 1979, there were still the next 30 years full of additional information, that he failed to act.

A few things the Police Chief told the interviewer:

“Well, the profile said the guy they were looking for was military-special forces..”

“There was nothing to say, no indicators, to say he [JJD] was a serial murder.”

“He [JJD] liked cars, but there was nothing that would lead us to believe he [JJD] was involved in criminal activities.”

Q: “Would you call him a good cop?”   A: “Just average.”

“He [JJD] didn't fit the description of a mass murderer or serial rapist, although sometimes it’s just the person next door.”

Q: Were you aware of the EAR crimes back then?   A: “Definitely. A lot of people were concerned. It was on T.V., in the newspapers, lots of people were talking about it, there was a lot of fear, and Sac is close to Auburn, but still....”

Q: [about his firing]  A: “We conducted our own investigation....”

“[EAR] crimes continued after he was fired. Nothing slowed down. If anything, they exhilarated.”

“Many LE, police investigators, FBI, and all LE put thousands of hours into this investigation...I'm glad they finally caught him.”

“If only there was something we could have seen to indicate.....”

“One of my officers who sometimes partnered with him [JJD] told me he [JJD] said he [JJD] wanted to kill me and that he [JJD] actually went to my house to do it but he [JJD] couldn't get through my bedroom window.”

What profile said the EAR was in special forces?  The Police Chief said that the crimes continued after JJD was fired in 1979, but we know that’s inaccurate from the standpoint in time he was referring to. The murders in SoCal weren’t connected to the EAR for another 15 years. After JJD was fired, the EAR attacks immediately seized.

The Police Chief had privy to JJDs personnel file, which would have shown JJD once lived in Visalia, Tulare, and worked in Exeter, Tulare. JJD's application would have shown JJD got an Associate’s Degree in Police Science in 1970 from Sierra College in Rocklin, which is near SACRAMENTO, then a Bachelor’s Degree in Criminology in 1972 from SACRAMENTO State. The Police Chief knew JJD was proficient with firearms, had a baton, wore shiny black round-toed boots, used small flash lights, served in the Navy so knew how to tie DIAMOND KNOTS, that JJD was a Vietnam Vet, had irregular work hours and a lot of nights free, frequently called in sick. He knew JJD’s weight, skin tone, and body build, that JJD was very AGILE - the Police Chief mentioned that JJR participated in many Department outdoor sporting events/fund raisers and appeared to be very ATHLETIC. Most importantly, the Police Chief knew JJD STOLE DOG REPELLANT and had lots of STOLEN goods at his house.

Who has ever even heard of Visalia prior to this case? How is it that this Police Chief did not recognize a red flag knowing that JJD used to live and work in such an unknown place? It was mostly known for the VR, for an attempted murder on an Exeter cop, and for the murder of a college professor? I bet the Police Chief didn't know any other person or officer on his force who lived or worked in Tulare! And if he did, that the person also had many of those other details possibly linking him to the EAR.

If this Police Chief was as sharp as he should have been for being a Sargant, he would have known about the,

- VR, who was active while JJD was in Tulare and stopped when JJD left,
- Snelling’s murder in September 1975,
- McGowen getting shot in December 1975,
- JJD being hired at the same time the EAR attack started in 1976,
- In 1979 the EAR attacks stopped, right after JJD shoplifted,
- JJD shoplifted right in the heart of the EAR attack zone.

A lot of us board members had POIs with half of those details, characteristics and job and residence locations - POIs whose backgrounds we kept digging into. And lots of people who knew other people with so much less found it their duties to call in tips.  Perhaps a layman may not put 2+2 together regarding the VR and Sac, but this is a professional LE.  Even Officer McGowen suspected the VR was the EAR, and after he became a detective, he went to SAC and was looking at photos of newly hired officers in various PDs in 1976.  McGowen was so close!  This isn't to say that the Police Chief should have known that JJD was the EAR or the VR.   However, he could have had a slight inkling that all these details could mean something and then just turn in his name and let the LE handling the case look into it.  That's all he had to do.  That's what I did. That's what lots of us did.  That's what lots of people did, with names of men who had a lot less!  Had I, or any board members here who were actively helping to unmask this madman been in possession of the information the Police Chief had, WE'D HAVE TURNED IN JJD'S NAME!!!!!

In my opinion, there was a big failure by Auburn P.D. to protect the public. Others at the Auburn PD also had to have been familiar with the contents of JJD’s personnel file, the fact that he shoplifted dog repellant and a hammer, and that there were a lot of stolen items found in his house, and they too remained silent.

I hate to say this and I'm sorry for having to say it, but this is disgraceful. It’s disheartening, shameful and unforgiveable.

------

As much as I would love for this logic to add up, it just doesn't.   You have a lot of details on these cases and you are making an assumption that Auburn PD would have actively known these details.   The only people who knew the details of the cases were people following the case and the actual teams working the cases.   Auburn wouldn't have been working this case at all.    I'll grant that the EAR stories were in the news but to think that someone at Auburn would be digging into details on the EAR crimes and thinking about them with a goal of trying to solve it is ridiculous.   None of those crimes occurred in Auburn.  So this notion that by reading JJD's personnel file and then making all those connections that you make above simply wouldn't have happened.  You are following this case on a regular basis, they aren't.   You also have the luxury of all the time after he was fired to continue to be interested in this case.   Do you think every LE person in the state was working on this crime?  For crying out loud, if Holes hadn't gone into a dusty file cabinet and pulled out the EAR case files, it's likely this case would still be unsolved.   

And JJD didn't work in Visalia, he worked in Exeter.  So imagine your the chief reading his file and you know he's from Exeter.  Would you immediately think "oh, yeah I remember this whole VR series down there.   Fresno/Visalia/Exeter might as well have been in a different country.  My dad didn't even know about the VR.   I had to tell him about it, but he wasn't there until after JJD was gone.

McGowan was indeed close, but look at where he was.  Smack dab in the middle of the VR zone. Why did he never follow up on his notes to check on Exeter cops?   The Sacramento PD again also had JJD in cuffs right in the middle of the EAR series and no one in the department wanted to look at that and they had all the details on this guy.   I'm sure as part of the prosecution into that case the two agencies had some conversations and yet the link still wasn't made.   They couldn't even make the link to the VR series when Visalia came up and visited them.

There is no way the Chief would of known about Snelling's murder.   He may have heard of the McGowen incident because I'm sure it made the news and it was in LE circles, but it would of just been an event way down in Visalia (again, not Exeter), a blip in the news.  The VR series stopping is only something you know with some time passing and the same is true for the EAR crimes.  Even if a connection there could of been made, it would of taken time for those things to add up.  And I don't really see his arrest in the heart of the EAR zone as a major red flag.   Apparently Sacramento didn't think so either.  How many crimes happened in that zone during that time frame?  Probably a lot, and a lot more that would have gone under more scrutiny for being linked to the EAR as shoplifting.   If it were so obvious, even with the dog repellant and all, why didn't Sacramento just immediately become suspicious?  Because they had plenty more suspicious POIs.  

I haven't see the quote before where the Chief indicated that JJD confided in him about wanting to kill the Chief.  Which interview was that in?  That just seems bizzarro.   If JJD had killed the Chief his gig would of been up, and he would of certainly known that would have been an extremely risky move.   Not to mention that he could have known that Willick would be armed.  

Your argument practically states that anyone who knew that JJD was a cop in Exeter in that time frame and a cop in Auburn in that time frame should of been able to solve this case just on that information alone.   On top of that, it was public knowledge that JJD was fired for shoplifting.   But it didn't happen.  Not even by people who were actively working this case and the amateur detectives.

"For crying out loud, if Holes hadn't gone into a dusty file cabinet and pulled out the EAR case files, it's likely this case would still be unsolved."

Holes was working on the case since the late 80s. He stuck with it.  He never gave up hunting this madman.  In the early 90s Holes linked the crimes between SoCal and NorCal through scientific DNA. Thanks to Hole's determination, hard work, intelligence, and common sense (that I wish the Auburn Police Chief had some of), the NorCal and SoCal crimes were linked to one criminal and eventually solved.   Previous to that, the Sac detectives who originally hunted the EAR and new his MO by heart went to SoCal and told LE their murderer was the EAR and SoCal didn't want to believe it.  They prosecuted an innocent man.   

The Auburn Police Chief is the one who announced to the world in an interview that he was told by one of his officers that JJD wanted to and actually attempted to murder him.

And just as you said, "this logic"! 

The Auburn PD screwed up.  That's all there is to it.  The Auburn Police Chief held a vital key piece of evidence that would have cracked this case wide open a long, long time ago, if only he had half the brains of Paul Holes and some of these board members.

I truly believe there's a good chance that if the Police Chief hadn't been so inadequate, murders could have been prevented.  It's very hard for me to feel this way and to say that because I have the utmost respect for all LE.  It's not easy for me to accept the way I feel and what I believe about this situation, but I have to go with my common sense and I am being realistic. 

I'm sorry...… but there are a lot of dead people out there who I happen to pray for all the time and who I am constantly reminded of by other people who make me think of them.  I can't just pretend this is no big deal and that there were "no indications".   Like I said, the Police Chief is held to a higher standard than the rest of us.  There was a madman out there and he knew that, there were helicopters every night, women and girls being raped, couples being held hostage in their own homes all night long...…

[orly57]

“Hmmmmmm. You know, those rapes started occurring right around the time we hired DeAngelo. They also stopped right after we fired him and he threatened the life of our police chief and peeped into the chief’s daughter’s room with a flashlight. I wonder why he was shoplifting dog repellant. Weird. Anyone want a doughnut?”

[cleopatra]

Jun 18, 2018 1:24:45 GMT EaglesNumberOne said:

Jun 17, 2018 23:06:11 GMT cleopatra said:

[EaglesNumberOne]

Jun 18, 2018 2:20:37 GMT cleopatra said:

Jun 18, 2018 1:24:45 GMT EaglesNumberOne said:

"For crying out loud, if Holes hadn't gone into a dusty file cabinet and pulled out the EAR case files, it's likely this case would still be unsolved."

Holes was working on the case since the late 80s. He stuck with it.  He never gave up hunting this madman.  In the early 90s Holes linked the crimes between SoCal and NorCal through scientific DNA. Thanks to Hole's determination, hard work, intelligence, and common sense (that I wish the Auburn Police Chief had some of), the NorCal and SoCal crimes were linked to one criminal and eventually solved.   Previous to that, the Sac detectives who originally hunted the EAR and new his MO by heart went to SoCal and told LE their murderer was the EAR and SoCal didn't want to believe it.  They prosecuted an innocent man.   

The Auburn Police Chief is the one who announced to the world in an interview that he was told by one of his officers that JJD wanted to and actually attempted to murder him.

And just as you said, "this logic"! 

The Auburn PD screwed up.  That's all there is to it.  The Auburn Police Chief held a vital key piece of evidence that would have cracked this case wide open a long, long time ago, if only he had half the brains of Paul Holes and some of these board members.

I truly believe there's a good chance that if the Police Chief hadn't been so inadequate, murders could have been prevented.  It's very hard for me to feel this way and to say that because I have the utmost respect for all LE.  It's not easy for me to accept the way I feel and what I believe about this situation, but I have to go with my common sense and I am being realistic. 

I'm sorry...… but there are a lot of dead people out there who I happen to pray for all the time and who I am constantly reminded of by other people who make me think of them.  I can't just pretend this is no big deal and that there were "no indications".   Like I said, the Police Chief is held to a higher standard than the rest of us.  There was a madman out there and he knew that, there were helicopters every night, women and girls being raped, couples being held hostage in their own homes all night long...…

That’s right. Holes was working on this case because it was in his jurisdiction. Again, Auburn had zero reason to work the VR-EAR cases at all. And they weren’t.

And let’s not leave out blaming McGowen who should of known this guy was a cop in Exeter.

And let’s not leave out Sacramento PD who were working this case and refused to listen to the Visalia cops who linked the EAR and VR cases and had arrested someone for shoplifting dog repellant (a known part of the EARs MO). It was sooooooo obvious right there. Anyone could see it.

But instead, let’s blame the Auburn Chief because he has a cop that threatens to kill him when he fired him and stalked his house.

All we needed here was to know where JJD worked and all the stuff that was already public and this case was solvable.

I’m really not trying to defend the cops here in any of these agencies, but I would have much higher expectations for LE agencies working this case versus those that weren’t.

The case being made in this thread is that all you needed was a timeline of his events (which were all out in the open) and the case would of been solved. Or, if you just pile on this bit of stalking and threats into the mix that that just magically changes the outcome just doesn’t hold up.

[smitmit]

Jun 17, 2018 18:04:58 GMT bob said:

It wasn't just one shoplifting accusation. 

His chief went to his house and found other stolen merchandise. And did nothing about it.

Everyone knew that VR could be EAR. Why did no one ever compare the Visalia area phone books with the Sacramento area phone books? Sac was big. But the Visalia area wasn't. They could have had a short list in less than 2 months.

I believe LE officers should be held to a higher standard. Is that fair? Yes. Because they ask for a higher standard of response from citizens whom they pull over, grill at random, and infringe upon during the execution of their duties. And those duties are dangerous to them, and we understand that, so we try to be civil and tolerate these little intrusions - like having someone knock on your door and ask for a DNA swab, or getting grilled when you've been pulled over (just making conversation) etc.

But in return for that public trust, I believe they should have to take DNA tests for employment. There are plenty of other jobs that require drug tests, fingerprinting, etc.

I worked as a massage therapist for a while (500 hours training, shiatsu, acupressure etc.) and in one state I had to get fingerprinted. -Because of all those massage therapists who are serial killers? Or because there's a prejudice that MT's are probably prostitutes? Which also doesn't make sense, cause I don't think they're lifting print off penises. Right? So it's not like it's unfair.  
Forensics has to rule out extra DNA and extra fingerprints anyway. They need that on file.

I did run Tulare County 75,76 against a later directory, but there's no Deangelo or various spellings of it,nor Huddle. I did however run Sac area 76 vs 77 and J d'angelo and John Jack D' Angelo were on my list, amongst many other names . These were comparisons from a year someone was listed(1977) to a year they were not. Now using a computer helps, likely LE had no such access

[cleopatra]

Jun 18, 2018 3:00:04 GMT EaglesNumberOne said:

Jun 18, 2018 2:20:37 GMT cleopatra said:

"For crying out loud, if Holes hadn't gone into a dusty file cabinet and pulled out the EAR case files, it's likely this case would still be unsolved."

Holes was working on the case since the late 80s. He stuck with it.  He never gave up hunting this madman.  In the early 90s Holes linked the crimes between SoCal and NorCal through scientific DNA. Thanks to Hole's determination, hard work, intelligence, and common sense (that I wish the Auburn Police Chief had some of), the NorCal and SoCal crimes were linked to one criminal and eventually solved.   Previous to that, the Sac detectives who originally hunted the EAR and new his MO by heart went to SoCal and told LE their murderer was the EAR and SoCal didn't want to believe it.  They prosecuted an innocent man.   

The Auburn Police Chief is the one who announced to the world in an interview that he was told by one of his officers that JJD wanted to and actually attempted to murder him.

And just as you said, "this logic"! 

The Auburn PD screwed up.  That's all there is to it.  The Auburn Police Chief held a vital key piece of evidence that would have cracked this case wide open a long, long time ago, if only he had half the brains of Paul Holes and some of these board members.

I truly believe there's a good chance that if the Police Chief hadn't been so inadequate, murders could have been prevented.  It's very hard for me to feel this way and to say that because I have the utmost respect for all LE.  It's not easy for me to accept the way I feel and what I believe about this situation, but I have to go with my common sense and I am being realistic. 

I'm sorry...… but there are a lot of dead people out there who I happen to pray for all the time and who I am constantly reminded of by other people who make me think of them.  I can't just pretend this is no big deal and that there were "no indications".   Like I said, the Police Chief is held to a higher standard than the rest of us.  There was a madman out there and he knew that, there were helicopters every night, women and girls being raped, couples being held hostage in their own homes all night long...…

That’s right. Holes was working on this case because it was in his jurisdiction. Again, Auburn had zero reason to work the VR-EAR cases at all. And they weren’t.

And let’s not leave out blaming McGowen who should of known this guy was a cop in Exeter.

And let’s not leave out Sacramento PD who were working this case and refused to listen to the Visalia cops who linked the EAR and VR cases and had arrested someone for shoplifting dog repellant (a known part of the EARs MO). It was sooooooo obvious right there. Anyone could see it.

But instead, let’s blame the Auburn Chief because he has a cop that threatens to kill him when he fired him and stalked his house.

All we needed here was to know where JJD worked and all the stuff that was already public and this case was solvable.

I’m really not trying to defend the cops here in any of these agencies, but I would have much higher expectations for LE agencies working this case versus those that weren’t.

The case being made in this thread is that all you needed was a timeline of his events (which were all out in the open) and the case would of been solved. Or, if you just pile on this bit of stalking and threats into the mix that that just magically changes the outcome just doesn’t hold up.

It was out of Holes jurisdiction.  He picked up the case when he was new and the statute of limitations had not yet ran out, and was working on the rapes in Concord, Danville, Walnut Creek and San Ramon, all in Conta Costa.  Holes' jurisdiction was in NorCal.  He worked for Contra Costa PD.  But.....as I said, he stuck with the case once he realized that his rapist was the SoCal murderer.  He nailed JJD for the SoCal murders and 2 Sac murders (the Maggiores).  All the other NorCal crimes, including those from Holes' jurisdiction in Contra 'Costa, are not prosecutable because the statute of limitations has past.

eaglesNumber2,

How about, let's not blame anyone for the crimes committed by one madman?  This is not about "blame".  I'm saying that I wish the Auburn Police Chief had been on the ball!  There is no way he could have known that JJD was the EAR.  Know one could have. 

I'm scrutinizing his lack of common sense and poor judgement call as a SUPERIOR MEMBER OF LE, AS A SUPERVISOR, AS A SARGAENT, or should I say lack of it.  I know what the Chief knew, from his own words in his interview.  I was shocked when I heard him announce that JJD tried to kill him!   

As for blaming him and all those other LE agencies and officers you listed, for what?  For doing their jobs?  I cannot blame them for not catching the EAR - they tried.  If any of those people or agencies you mentioned knew what the Police Chief knew, they'd have nabbed the VA, EAR, ONS!

I'm concerned about why the Auburn Police Chief wasn't doing his job?  I'm not saying he should have known JJD was the EAR, or he should have caught the EAR.  I'm saying that he had knowledge of a scrupulous man who prowled at his window and watched his daughter undress, threatened to kill him then tried to kill him, shoplifted dog repellent, was in possession of lots of stolen goods, etc...…., was aware of all the details surrounding the EAR attacks, and that he never once cared or thought to mention that man's name to Sac LE or the FBI in 30 years.

Once again, it's very difficult for me talk negatively about any LE because I have nothing but respect for all LE. 

[cleopatra]

Jun 17, 2018 19:02:59 GMT zorro said:

The fact that EAR attacks stopped cold in the Sacramento area after Deangelo's shoplifting arrest says a lot to me.
It's hard for me to believe none of his co-workers made the connection. Like oldguy said 'the force was with him' - The Auburn Police Force.
Someone was 'looking the other way' at the least.

[cleopatra]

Jun 18, 2018 4:34:32 GMT cleopatra said:

Jun 17, 2018 19:02:59 GMT zorro said:

The fact that EAR attacks stopped cold in the Sacramento area after Deangelo's shoplifting arrest says a lot to me.
It's hard for me to believe none of his co-workers made the connection. Like oldguy said 'the force was with him' - The Auburn Police Force.
Someone was 'looking the other way' at the least.

Zorro,

" 'the force was with him' - The Auburn Police Force."

WE KNEW WHAT FORCE YOU MEANT!  WE ARE NOT AUBURN PD!!!