Overlooking the common contributes to cases becoming cold ?

[(AQ)]

Sept 6, 2018 1:57:23 GMT riverstorum said:

 Loss of reputation/business.

 Loyalty to loved ones.

 Fear of retaliation or repercussions including death.

 Not wanting to disrupt their lives (re court and the entire process)

 Not wanting to be seen as a snitch

Two things here: 1- We/I have seen these very excuses used in discussions about this case by those who arent even involved. I.e. resistance to any suggestion that family members or friends are obligated to turn in their loved one, be forthcoming to police/public post arrest, or allow LE to search a public DNA database to narrow a search down to one family tree. These people dont feel they have any obligation to anyone besides their own family members (and really, not even them since most people are victimized by someone they live with/know). Which brings me to 2- All of those things have one lowest common denominator and that is selfishness. Why arent more cases turned from red to black? Selfishness.

Good points and yet I cannot melt the solution down to your 2 points.  While they definitely hold merit, they are not functional in the real world because people are indeed loyal to others, do want to be part of a family, do want to belong. And many of the people associated with crime (esp street crime- robbery, drugs, etc) are there committing crime side by side with another in order to, or hopes of belonging.  I guess, basically, I am saying I see your points as holding truth, but they would only be done differently (ie turning in the 'bad guy') in a utopian world.  In reality, most people rat out their 'brother in arms' to save their own self- whether that be for self-preservation/protection or reduced sentence. (and, yes, again, selfishness, eh?)

The larger problem in what you state under issue 1 however is that you are going against some basic principles of the USA- right to privacy (dna database); innocent till proven guilty; right to a fair trial- not tried on a forum, or by one or two or a group of individuals.   These rights were established for a purpose and infringing on them means huge changes for society. 

Once had someone tell me that people operate from two emotions- fear and greed.   At the time we weren't talking crime at all, yet I can see it applying here also (as I eluded to both in the bullet point paragraphs & in the above).

Is self preservation being selfish?   Do you even realize how many times a day / week / month YOU (generic) are being selfish ?  When two people or groups of people have different values which person/group is being selfish?   You for wanting to see justice at any cost or the guy/gal who wants to protect their (innocent) family?

I think a philosophical debate could go on for quite some time.
I will admit that until you classified the above bullet points as selfish, I hadn't really looked at them as such.  They are however real, just as real as the criminal who lays down false evidence to divert from being found.  They are facts that must be taken into account.   Just as we must take into account the shortage of manpower, the costs, the time necessary to examine these cases.  As much as it would be ideal for everyone who knew everything to 'spill' when a crime is initially committed, often times, it isn't until enough discussion, examination of the crime scene, research into the circumstances/lives of individuals involved that the pieces come together.   In other words, it DOES require a collaboration no matter which was you slice it.  

How would you go about getting people to be less selifsh?  DNA from every baby submitted into a national Database?  more police protection for those who step forward and offer info on the criminals so that they and their families will be safe? interrogate families publicly so that the world can know the details about a life they didn't even comprehend they were a part of?  


My experiences, which are extremely limited have shown me that- 

- people who come forward to report a crime or a suspicion are not taken too seriously, and many a time nothing is written down; recalling from memory is a tough one, if there is nothing to jog ones memory or tie that report to (random event/suspicion/observation)

- the better/bigger talker will win over the confidence of those unknown to them (ie of two citizens dealing w/ police the 1st time, the one with more confidence will often be the one believed)

- curiosity can create chaos and lead to a break in procedure or routine hence vital information is overlooked, damaged or destroyed

- running with the biggest lead(or supposition/most likely) early on in an investigation can taken one down the rabbit hole... .all circumstances must be evaluated until the evidence discounts that person/situation/evidence

- not talking to every associate of victims/POI's can skew the direction of a case

I'm sure there is more, but, this is all atm, I can swing.     


appreciate the space to ramble

[trabuco]

Sept 7, 2018 1:12:00 GMT (AQ) said:

Sept 2, 2018 18:47:05 GMT trabuco said:

Before the invention of the automobile the horse was the means of transportation. On a good day of riding one could expect to cover 20 miles. With the advancement in technology every head is looking down into a device that can take them all over the world in seconds. If all of those heads are thinking on the same killer there will be no place to hide. They will find him. Perhaps not all of his secrets will be revealed but many will be.

Agreed !!  Indeed we are creatures of habit and prefer certain ways/means of doing things.   I just find it difficult to read all these cases and want answers when I know it requires the work that many people here put in on these cases. My life doesn't afford me the luxury of that time right now. I need to sit back more and read/study vs offer input.   There's a couple of handful's of folk that really impress me with their diligence in pursuing these cases.  My frustration like many here is in wanting the answers and knowing they are out there.

Yes! Collaboration will lead to answers, and the pressure will be felt by the POI's.  Wonder how many 'other' cases will be solved in the midst of people trying to solve their favorite.

The exposure of these crimes, the vast interest in Cold Cases by both LE, private investigators and citizen sleuths is actually pushing harder and farther for some National Databases re Cold Cases.  A few regional and state databases have been gaining steam and that is a good start, but, ideally a national database will be required.  People today are too transitory for such to not occur; too many crimes will be overlooked, hence patterns and similarities be missed.

I also see that an index to Cold Case Websites could be useful, while many will say google can do that, I think a means of refining parameters would be helpful.   In just now reading the board, I've come across at least 2-3 articles re the same crime. Awhile back I was looking at some recent research on the Zodiac and also noticed the repetition of info.   There is definitely a pro and a con to that.  

Enuf of my rambling tonight.

When I was in my early twenties in the beginning of my studies to satisfy an unquenchable thirst for knowledge I remember experiencing a certain fear. It was a fear of living and dying without having known all there is to know about everything. But I had to let go of it and put it in God's lap. There was too much to do and I just couldn't accommodate fear and anxiety. I am probably the least among you in knowledge but I press forward. What I have learned is: Findings are reserved for Searchers and that man has a tendency to want to over complicate things. Keep it simple.