Killer & Religion

[cleopatra]

I speculate that this killer is most likely LE and has a strong religious background, which shows in some of his actions.....

(1)     First victims were both women

        - were together in a car, possibly parked

        - both women's hands were bound

        

        - neither women were sexually assaulted

        - both were strangled

        -  throats were slashed viciously from ear to ear with a knife

(2)     Fourth victims - a young man and a young woman

        - were together in a car, possibly driving or parked

        - walked victims through a trail before killing them

        - shot and stabbed victims

        - lay both victims together

        

        - covered them with a blanket

If it were late at night and dark and I were driving toward a vehicle with two people in it, because I had been seeking a romantic couple, I may only be able to make out just that - two people sitting together in a car.  I would presume the couple is in that spot making out, because it's something couples do at that time in that type of spot within the national park.  I could not and would not know anything else about the couple.  But they are a couple, engaging in romance, in a very secluded spot.   I know no one would stop to ask me if I were ok, because I'm in my patrol car, so other drivers would assume I'm ticketing or helping the people in that other car - so no problem. 

But now I am at the window of the parked car and I see that the couple is not the traditional type I sought, but instead two gay women.  This has thrown my whole game off balance.  I'm taken aback!  I've come this far. I'm all pumped up and ready to dive into action.   I will not turn back now, but this is a real *er and it's these two's faults!

Perhaps this theory explains the extreme rage.  No sexual assault, despite that the two had been bound prior to being killed.  If no sexual assault was taking place between the time they were bound and before they were killed, what was going on? I believe the killer wanted interaction. He may have been lecturing them and questioning them.  Discussions about their sexuality may have enraged him, and all that along with ruining his plan, may have been the reason for the extreme overkill.  His religious background may have frowned heavily on homosexuality.

FOURTH CRIME

With the fourth couple - same scenario, but different outcome, perhaps because.....

Once again, I see two people together in a car.  I know nothing about them, except they are what I had been seeking - a couple, out together in the middle of the night, obviously up to no good, doing something they don't want anyone to know about or they would be home where they should be.

I am all pumped up, my adrenaline is running and I decide I'm going to put my plan into action right now.  Pull them over (all of this is a theory of course).  Make them drive forward a bit, then tell them to stop the car, and then go get them. No passing vehicles will even think twice about this scene - a patrolman ticketing someone.  Hang the roach-clip on the window on the street side as bait to lure a bunch of pot-heads to the car, who will then steal the car.

As I am transporting my victims to their death-site, I am lecturing them about my religious beliefs and telling them their evil acts have brought us together.  I question them, just as I questioned my first victims who only enraged me with their answers.  I am slowly feeling sympathy and regret.  I know I am going to kill these two no matter what, but I regret that I must follow through with this murder, as it turns out these two are not a romantic couple up to no good.  The girl is getting married - will be doing the right thing.  The boy is also doing the right thing - helping family - driving his brothers future bride to her new home.  As they all walk on the trail, the two victims cry and beg for mercy. But there's no turning back, it's too late for that.

This crime shows no super-rage or overkill.  The killer shows sympathy and "caring" for the victims. Quick deaths means less suffering. He shoots and stabs these victims.  He lay them together so they won't be alone.  He covered them with a blanket, out of respect and sympathy. He gave this couple a chance of being found, so they could have a funeral and a proper burial.  (theories, of course).  Religious traits.

In contrast, the second and third couples were disposed of so never to be found.  They were all REAL ROMANTIC COUPLES, the types he sought - who in his mind were up to no good.  The killer may have intended for the 2nd couple not to be found..  He may have thrown their bodies into the river yet they ended up surfacing.  By that happening, he may have decided to bury the third couple.

 

[cleopatra]

The CPK laid the 4th couple together so they would not be alone. Then he covered them with a blanket.  He did not burry then, which left a chance for them to be found.  Otherwise, he could have just thrown a bunch of large branches over them, or buried them in a shallow grave.

I consider those acts very important as to the killers possible frame of mind and motive.  The CBK is a cold blooded murder!  To commit such horrific crimes, then in this crime take the time to cover the victims with a blanket.  His brutal murders and covering victims with a blanket are completely contrasting acts.  He had to have feelings for these victims to have done that.  Yet he did not know them, which is why I believe when he found out the two were not a romantic couple, he felt some sort of regret.

[billthom56]

Cleo:

Solid interesting theories.

One correction: as far as we know, no evidence of shots fired in #4, Phelps/Lauer. Knife marks on one of the victim's hand bones.

Interestingly, there was a rapist and murderer, Michael Marnell Smith, who committed crimes on the Colonial Parkway. He was put to death by the Commonwealth of Virginia ten weeks before my sister Cathy Thomas and Rebecca Dowski were killed. He was part of a large family who helped establish Gospel Spreading Church Farm, which can still be seen along the Colonial Parkway. Their red barns with white crosses are very distinctive. He is buried on the property.

murderpedia.org/male.S/s1/smith-michael-marnell.htm

www.nytimes.com/1986/08/01/us/virginia-man-dies-in-electric-chair.html

www.findagrave.com/memorial/56622359/michael-marnell-smith

Thanks.



Bill Thomas

[cleopatra]

Aug 11, 2018 7:54:32 GMT billthom56 said:

Cleo:

Solid interesting theories.

One correction: as far as we know, no evidence of shots fired in #4, Phelps/Lauer. Knife marks on one of the victim's hand bones.

Interestingly, there was a rapist and murderer, Michael Marnell Smith, who committed crimes on the Colonial Parkway. He was put to death by the Commonwealth of Virginia ten weeks before my sister Cathy Thomas and Rebecca Dowski were killed. He was part of a large family who helped establish Gospel Spreading Church Farm, which can still be seen along the Colonial Parkway. Their red barns with white crosses are very distinctive. He is buried on the property.

murderpedia.org/male.S/s1/smith-michael-marnell.htm

www.nytimes.com/1986/08/01/us/virginia-man-dies-in-electric-chair.html

www.findagrave.com/memorial/56622359/michael-marnell-smith

Thanks.



Bill Thomas

If I were LE back then, I would have been canvassing all the Gospel Spreading Church Farm properties looking for Crown Vics, and asking around to see If any of their staff or parishners were employed in LE.

I am praying that the DNA results will bring this case to a close soon.  Too much time has passed. These victims deserve justice. 

[cleopatra]

Aug 11, 2018 19:14:58 GMT cleopatra said:

Aug 11, 2018 7:54:32 GMT billthom56 said:

Cleo:

Solid interesting theories.

One correction: as far as we know, no evidence of shots fired in #4, Phelps/Lauer. Knife marks on one of the victim's hand bones.

Interestingly, there was a rapist and murderer, Michael Marnell Smith, who committed crimes on the Colonial Parkway. He was put to death by the Commonwealth of Virginia ten weeks before my sister Cathy Thomas and Rebecca Dowski were killed. He was part of a large family who helped establish Gospel Spreading Church Farm, which can still be seen along the Colonial Parkway. Their red barns with white crosses are very distinctive. He is buried on the property.

murderpedia.org/male.S/s1/smith-michael-marnell.htm

www.nytimes.com/1986/08/01/us/virginia-man-dies-in-electric-chair.html

www.findagrave.com/memorial/56622359/michael-marnell-smith

Thanks.



Bill Thomas

If I were LE back then, I would have been canvassing all the Gospel Spreading Church Farm properties looking for Crown Vics, and asking around to see If any of their staff or parishners were employed in LE.

I am praying that the DNA results will bring this case to a close soon.  Too much time has passed. These victims deserve justice. 

Michael Marnekk Smith was African American.

In my opinion, the CPK is Caucasian.

I have to go back and read some of my forensic books on this subject, but I recall that serial killers who committed similar crimes as the CPK had been known to choose victims of their own race.

If the CPK pulled over couples or walked up to cars of couples who were non-caucasian, he may have just left them alone.

This reasoning is based on the fact that most mission-oriented serial killers were punishing victims, or sending out a message to people, who they believed should not have been doing certain behaviors. People beneath their own social backgrounds were, in their minds, already expected to act in such disicable ways. In the killer's mind his victims were held at higher standards.

Although the first couple was gay, they were also Caucasian, and the CPK may have decided they were committing a double whamo-no-no, thus the overkill. With the 4th couple the CPK may not have realized they were not a romantic couple until he was already transporting them.



These theories are based on studies of hundreds serial criminals from all around the world who committed similar crimes. It does not mean that the conclusions based on them are definite or correct theories, only good likelihoods.

[sammyt]

Aug 11, 2018 3:43:35 GMT cleopatra said:

The CPK laid the 4th couple together so they would not be alone. Then he covered them with a blanket.  He did not burry then, which left a chance for them to be found.  Otherwise, he could have just thrown a bunch of large branches over them, or buried them in a shallow grave.

I consider those acts very important as to the killers possible frame of mind and motive.  The CBK is a cold blooded murder!  To commit such horrific crimes, then in this crime take the time to cover the victims with a blanket.  His brutal murders and covering victims with a blanket are completely contrasting acts.  He had to have feelings for these victims to have done that.  Yet he did not know them, which is why I believe when he found out the two were not a romantic couple, he felt some sort of regret.

Profiling 101 would tell us that when a killer covers his victims with a blanket, he is usually related or connected to them.

Parents who kill their children often cover them with a blanket.

Maybe the killer felt some immediate guilt (even though this was by no means his first murder) and/or maybe he did actually have some connection to them.

Or maybe, like JJD, he was investigation savvy and was throwing a curve ball to mislead the detectives.

I would really look at former and current LE, someone like JJD, who was up to date with what the FBI were teaching local cops, and was experienced in approaching people and gaining their trust and compliance.

[cleopatra]

Aug 11, 2018 20:49:10 GMT sammyt said:

Aug 11, 2018 3:43:35 GMT cleopatra said:

The CPK laid the 4th couple together so they would not be alone. Then he covered them with a blanket.  He did not burry then, which left a chance for them to be found.  Otherwise, he could have just thrown a bunch of large branches over them, or buried them in a shallow grave.

I consider those acts very important as to the killers possible frame of mind and motive.  The CBK is a cold blooded murder!  To commit such horrific crimes, then in this crime take the time to cover the victims with a blanket.  His brutal murders and covering victims with a blanket are completely contrasting acts.  He had to have feelings for these victims to have done that.  Yet he did not know them, which is why I believe when he found out the two were not a romantic couple, he felt some sort of regret.

Profiling 101 would tell us that when a killer covers his victims with a blanket, he is usually related or connected to them.

Parents who kill their children often cover them with a blanket.

Maybe the killer felt some immediate guilt (even though this was by no means his first murder) and/or maybe he did actually have some connection to them.

Or maybe, like JJD, he was investigation savvy and was throwing a curve ball to mislead the detectives.

I would really look at former and current LE, someone like JJD, who was up to date with what the FBI were teaching local cops, and was experienced in approaching people and gaining their trust and compliance.

"...investigation savvy and was throwing a curve ball to mislead the detectives."

sammyt,

I considered that as well.

What's your take on the car windows being rolled down a little and wallets left on the dash boards?

It immediately appears as if though a patrol officer pulled the victims over and so the victims were preparing to present their I.D.s.

I can't decide if that's the case or if that part was staged because if the killer was indeed "investigation savy" it would stand to reason that he would have cleaned up that clue so detectives wouldn't suspect LE had pulled over the victims.

[cardinal]

Aug 11, 2018 7:54:32 GMT billthom56 said:

Cleo:

Solid interesting theories.

One correction: as far as we know, no evidence of shots fired in #4, Phelps/Lauer. Knife marks on one of the victim's hand bones.

Interestingly, there was a rapist and murderer, Michael Marnell Smith, who committed crimes on the Colonial Parkway. He was put to death by the Commonwealth of Virginia ten weeks before my sister Cathy Thomas and Rebecca Dowski were killed. He was part of a large family who helped establish Gospel Spreading Church Farm, which can still be seen along the Colonial Parkway. Their red barns with white crosses are very distinctive. He is buried on the property.

murderpedia.org/male.S/s1/smith-michael-marnell.htm

www.nytimes.com/1986/08/01/us/virginia-man-dies-in-electric-chair.html

www.findagrave.com/memorial/56622359/michael-marnell-smith

View AttachmentView Attachment

Thanks.



Bill Thomas

[/quote.Why would a pamphlet from the Holy Alamo Christian Church, a Pentecostal church that condemns homosexuality, be found in Ms.Thomas's car? Maybe the young ladies were given the literature earlier in the day from one of their followers? Maybe, their missionaries were out on the Parkway that night looking for sinners to convert? Possibly a connection between the Gospel Spreading Church and the Holy Alamo Christian Church? This clue is mind boggling but maybe it is nothing at all. Maybe, the ladies were given the pamphlet and just curious to see what this church's stance was on different issues. What do you think Bill? What is your take on this?

[cleopatra]

Aug 12, 2018 4:14:22 GMT cardinal said:

Aug 11, 2018 7:54:32 GMT billthom56 said:

Cleo:

Solid interesting theories.

One correction: as far as we know, no evidence of shots fired in #4, Phelps/Lauer. Knife marks on one of the victim's hand bones.

Interestingly, there was a rapist and murderer, Michael Marnell Smith, who committed crimes on the Colonial Parkway. He was put to death by the Commonwealth of Virginia ten weeks before my sister Cathy Thomas and Rebecca Dowski were killed. He was part of a large family who helped establish Gospel Spreading Church Farm, which can still be seen along the Colonial Parkway. Their red barns with white crosses are very distinctive. He is buried on the property.

murderpedia.org/male.S/s1/smith-michael-marnell.htm

www.nytimes.com/1986/08/01/us/virginia-man-dies-in-electric-chair.html

www.findagrave.com/memorial/56622359/michael-marnell-smith

Thanks.



Bill Thomas

[/quote.Why would a pamphlet from the Holy Alamo Christian Church, a Pentecostal church that condemns homosexuality, be found in Ms.Thomas's car? Maybe the young ladies were given the literature earlier in the day from one of their followers? Maybe, their missionaries were out on the Parkway that night looking for sinners to convert? Possibly a connection between the Gospel Spreading Church and the Holy Alamo Christian Church? This clue is mind boggling but maybe it is nothing at all. Maybe, the ladies were given the pamphlet and just curious to see what this church's stance was on different issues. What do you think Bill? What is your take on this?

That is very interesting. How do you know the pamphlet was given to them; that it belonged to the victims? Where did the pamphlet come from? LE must have liked into that.

[cleopatra]

Aug 12, 2018 4:40:00 GMT cleopatra said:

Aug 12, 2018 4:14:22 GMT cardinal said:

That is very interesting. How do you know the pamphlet was given to them; that it belonged to the victims? Where did the pamphlet come from? LE must have liked into that.

This is interesting:

Link:  50watts.com/Variorum-of-Classic-Tracts-and-Pamphlets

[cleopatra]

The founder of the Holy Alamo Christian Church was convicted of tax fraud and other crimes.  At his trial one of his victims said he took young girl's such as herself who belonged to his church to other states such as to West Virginia for sex.  Her ordeal took place in the 1990s. 

I'm not saying this ex-pastor is the CPK, although who knows?  Perhaps the CPK was a follower of that church.  Maybe the CPK grew up in Virginia and was very familiar with Colonial Parkway, relocated for work or family reasons to  wherever the Holy Alamo Christian Church was located, joined the church, then he would go home to Virginia to visit family on three day weekends, which would have been when he committed his crimes.

excerpt from following link:

www.tonyalamonews.com/category/tony-alamo-in-his-own-words/feed

But as Alamo left the courthouse in prison scrubs, he remained visibly upset.

“The FBI likes to burn Christians,” Alamo told reporters. “I should be putting them on trial, not them on me. They’re guilty.”

Alamo’s followers set up a Twitter account in his name over the weekend and referenced a statement on his Web site deriding the FBI as “demonic.”

Jurors heard last week from the five former followers who say Alamo abused them as girls. In graphic testimony, they said that they traveled to California, Tennessee and West Virginia for sex with their pastor or responded to his call and returned to Arkansas from out of state and had sex with him.

Each count in the indictment is punishable by 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine.

[sammyt]

Aug 11, 2018 22:07:30 GMT cleopatra said:

Aug 11, 2018 20:49:10 GMT sammyt said:

Profiling 101 would tell us that when a killer covers his victims with a blanket, he is usually related or connected to them.

Parents who kill their children often cover them with a blanket.

Maybe the killer felt some immediate guilt (even though this was by no means his first murder) and/or maybe he did actually have some connection to them.

Or maybe, like JJD, he was investigation savvy and was throwing a curve ball to mislead the detectives.

I would really look at former and current LE, someone like JJD, who was up to date with what the FBI were teaching local cops, and was experienced in approaching people and gaining their trust and compliance.

"...investigation savvy and was throwing a curve ball to mislead the detectives."

sammyt,

I considered that as well.

What's your take on the car windows being rolled down a little and wallets left on the dash boards?

It immediately appears as if though a patrol officer pulled the victims over and so the victims were preparing to present their I.D.s.

I can't decide if that's the case or if that part was staged because if the killer was indeed "investigation savy" it would stand to reason that he would have cleaned up that clue so detectives wouldn't suspect LE had pulled over the victims.

It's tricky to understand why the windows were rolled down.

As you say, maybe it was a non-LE perp acting how they thought a cop or ranger would act, or staging the scene.

Or maybe it was a DeAngelo type, who couldn't help but use his police tactics as part of his MO.

JJD was an extremely cunning offender, yet even he made no attempt to hide/alter some of the cop-like things he said and did to victims.

[cardinal]

Aug 12, 2018 5:26:13 GMT cleopatra said:

Aug 12, 2018 4:40:00 GMT cleopatra said:

This is interesting:

Link:  50watts.com/Variorum-of-Classic-Tracts-and-Pamphlets

I don't know how they received this pamphlet. Nor do I know if the investigators know. But, it was found in the floorboard of the car once they discovered the car and the victims on the river bank.Source-A Special Kind Of Evil authored by Blaine Pardoe and Victoria Hester.

[englishman]

In my opinion, he will be religious, I'm not 100% convinced his going to be your typical evangelical type pastor with the side parted hair cut, bleached white teeth, wearing a Walmart suit. I'm thinking towards a guy with strong conservative values, he would be a staunch Republican and would despise anything that is liberal or any values linked to it, he could even be a bit trailer park like in his appearance, a backwoods person who likes their six packs of beer, hunting and fishing, as well as holding strong views towards the church and their country.

[billthom56]

Aug 12, 2018 4:14:22 GMT cardinal said:

Aug 11, 2018 7:54:32 GMT billthom56 said:

Cleo:

Solid interesting theories.

One correction: as far as we know, no evidence of shots fired in #4, Phelps/Lauer. Knife marks on one of the victim's hand bones.

Interestingly, there was a rapist and murderer, Michael Marnell Smith, who committed crimes on the Colonial Parkway. He was put to death by the Commonwealth of Virginia ten weeks before my sister Cathy Thomas and Rebecca Dowski were killed. He was part of a large family who helped establish Gospel Spreading Church Farm, which can still be seen along the Colonial Parkway. Their red barns with white crosses are very distinctive. He is buried on the property.

murderpedia.org/male.S/s1/smith-michael-marnell.htm

www.nytimes.com/1986/08/01/us/virginia-man-dies-in-electric-chair.html

www.findagrave.com/memorial/56622359/michael-marnell-smith

Thanks.



Bill Thomas

[/quote.Why would a pamphlet from the Holy Alamo Christian Church, a Pentecostal church that condemns homosexuality, be found in Ms.Thomas's car? Maybe the young ladies were given the literature earlier in the day from one of their followers? Maybe, their missionaries were out on the Parkway that night looking for sinners to convert? Possibly a connection between the Gospel Spreading Church and the Holy Alamo Christian Church? This clue is mind boggling but maybe it is nothing at all. Maybe, the ladies were given the pamphlet and just curious to see what this church's stance was on different issues. What do you think Bill? What is your take on this?

Cardinal:

Where did you hear/see that there was a pamphlet from the Holy Alamo Christian Church found in Cathy's Honda Civic?

Thanks.


Bill