LIBERTY SECURITY SERVICES Links Between Victims

[mustangman]

Jun 24, 2020 8:44:54 GMT fossilnerd said:

Jun 23, 2020 16:37:01 GMT mustangman said:

I didn't exclude Blackmon from the suspect list.  I was trying to say that he was on LE's radar for many years and I'm sure every LE agency involved in these murders looked at Blackmon very carefully and no concrete evidence was ever found to link Blackmon to these crimes beside some of the victims association to Liberty Security.  Blackmon in his professional duties as LE or as a private citizen, he committed mostly crimes against men, not women, although Bill does say that he has heard horror stories of women who say Blackmon abused them in some way.  Blackmon doesn't show any real similarity in his MO as compared to the CPK's MO.  Blackmon was a brawler, it didn't seam as if he was trying to hide any of his crimes. 

In another post of mine I state Blackmon & Ron Little as both being at the top of my suspect list.  Possibly the two worked together as partners in crime.

It does seem odd that a person like Blackmon--who was so obvious in crime commission--would have been a lurking serial killer who taunted law enforcement, like the one we're discussing here.

I've seen comments on the idea that 2 people killed as a team in those murders, and while it would have made it easier, I guess, it seems excessively risky for a killer of several people to have involved another person. First, there are the statistics: serial killers are uncommon; what are the odds that 2 would show up in the same area and then get to know each other so well that they'd trust each other enough to risk being caught and punished for killing people?

I think that Blackmon and Little were absolutely horrible, and I guess either could have been the murderer. I just doubt they did it together. If I had to choose one to have been the murderer, I'd put my money on Blackmon. I just think that it was someone else, though. It could have been someone who worked with Liberty Security, or as a contractor. Or it could have been someone for whom Liberty contracted. Maybe it was a former military or police guy, working under contract with Liberty security. The entire Hampton Roads area is full of former military who go to work as a contractor for government, private, and security companies to supplement military pension.

Whoever the killer is/was, he certainly seems to have knowledge of a large area, access to a boat, and ability to plan not only stalking but murders.

Yes, IMHO the killer knew the area around the Navy Weapons base very well.  Two of the crime scenes are on the Parkway along the base (Cathy/Becky & Keith/Sandra).  In both cases it appears as if the killer had to take the victims vehicles to the Parkway, but why, doing this would mean the killer had a car, boat, bike or a ride waiting on the Parkway to take him from the crime scene's or he risked being seen and identified, unless he was an enlisted person or a Contractor for the Weapons Station, and simply walked from the crime scene back onto the base thru or over the fence.  It has already been said here by many including Bill Thomas that back in the 80's the fence line was very sparsely guarded and that there were many places that someone could circumvent the fence.  So did the CPK simply abduct the victims and their vehicles and drive them to the parkway just because he needed a ride back to the base?  Having a get-away vehicle parked, for possibly hours, on the Parkway risked someone or LE seeing the vehicle and being able to identify it.  With both of the crime scenes on the Parkway the killer came onto the Parkway from both ends of that stretch of road between Yorktown and Cheatham Annex.  Cathy/Becky were last "positively" seen at William & Mary then found at Poley Point.  Keith/Sandra were last "positively" seen at a party in Newport News, they supposedly left the party to get Sandra back home in Grafton before her curfew and Keith's car was later found at the Scenic Overlook. Both of these crime scenes on the parkway lead directly from where the couples were last seen alive to either end of that stretch of road along the Weapons Station.  The CPK IMHO had to get back to that area of the Parkway for a reason.

  A curious observation of these two scene's is that the killer tried to or succeeded in hiding the bodies, but why risk bringing Cathy/Becky, if already dead as many including LE suspected, to dump at that spot on the Parkway and attempt to light the vehicle on fire and risk being caught, or just drop off Keith's car again risking being caught?  IMHO the CPK abducted Keith/Sandra before they reached Sandra's home in Grafton, he dumped Keith/Sandra's bodies somewhere before he reached the Parkway because he knew if he was stopped in Keith's car he could possibly explain his way out of why he was driving Keith's car, but if the bodies were still in the car then he would be caught, so he dumped the bodies before reaching the parkway, he probably also knew that even if he was arrested for being the person who parked Keith's car on the Parkway, without any bodies LE couldn't charge him with at least murder.   

[billthom56]

Jun 23, 2020 10:59:54 GMT fossilnerd said:

Jun 15, 2020 16:52:00 GMT mustangman said:

I'm not discounting Blackmon, just stating the obvious, that he was caught way too many times for other violent crimes and if he was the CPK IMHO he would've been caught for that too.

If there were two killers working together, than IMHO it would've been Little & Blackmon.  Of all the different professions or persons that we have suspected as being the CPK, these two stand out the most.  JMO

I'm not so sure that if Blackmon were the Colonial Parkway Killer he would have been caught. There's really no way to know, because the killer has not been caught. I just don't think it's prudent to judge the outcome of possibly >8 murders against those of other crimes, unless there's a specific in-crime pattern. In other words, if it were Blackmon, then just because he got caught for other crimes before or after the murders of the canonical 8, that doesn't mean he would have been caught for the Colonial Parkway murders. Every crime is different. Even amongst those we're discussing there are some differences, obviously.

Then there are differences in the way each has been investigated. If Blackmon were the killer, he could possibly have been caught under different circumstances, and could have been charged with some of the murders but not for others. Variables make all of the difference, evidently.

I'd lean more heavily into the Blackmon as the killer, but who knows. There are 150 (?) or so others on the suspect list, as well.

This question is for Bill Thomas: during the timeframe following the Colonial Parkway murders, there was a man in the area who shot his own daughter then himself. I won't mention his name here and know that you cannot comment on the suspect list, but am curious as to whether you're aware of the story.

Fossil:

That case you mentioned does not ring a bell, although hundreds of people have been mentioned in connection with the Colonial Parkway Murders, so I may have forgotten a few along the way.

You can message me the name here on the board if you like, although if the man is dead.  Are there are articles on the suicide?  Timeframe? Location?

Thanks as always,

Bill Thomas

[fossilnerd]

I totally think Liberty Security is linked to the murders in some way.

It's possible that there are other links, as well. Following is another bit of information that I'm not sure has been discussed here, but might be worth discussing. If I should be posting in a new thread, let me know.

I recently found out about Clark Perry Baldwin, 58, a suspected serial murderer linked to several cases, including one in Virginia. He also worked for a time in Newport News, where he drove a cab.

Baldwin was a truck driver, and I've not been able to find out anything about his past. Nobody's mentioned in the news articles how he would have made the decision to move in the early 2000s to Newport News from the Midwest.

I guess it's possible that he could have killed in the Hampton Roads area in the late 1980s, then gone on to killing in the Midwest in the 1990s. They do know that one of his victims was a girl from Topping. Her name was Pamela McCall, and she was 32 in 1991 when she was killed in Tennessee. A cold-case investigator sent the DNA in and it was tested and checked on public database and a law enforcement specific database, I think.

Baldwin's murders link him to Iowa, Illinois, Tennessee, Wyoming, and law enforcement believes he is connected to other murders they don't know of yet.

Baldwin would have been 24 in 1986. I don't know what he was doing then (whatever happened to old-fashioned investigative reporters, who'd dig up details and report properly??) but IF he were a taxi driver in the area in the 80s, he'd have had access to college campuses, parties, and young people. Just sayin'

[billthom56]

Jul 18, 2020 16:11:57 GMT fossilnerd said:

I totally think Liberty Security is linked to the murders in some way.

It's possible that there are other links, as well. Following is another bit of information that I'm not sure has been discussed here, but might be worth discussing. If I should be posting in a new thread, let me know.

I recently found out about Clark Perry Baldwin, 58, a suspected serial murderer linked to several cases, including one in Virginia. He also worked for a time in Newport News, where he drove a cab.

Baldwin was a truck driver, and I've not been able to find out anything about his past. Nobody's mentioned in the news articles how he would have made the decision to move in the early 2000s to Newport News from the Midwest.

I guess it's possible that he could have killed in the Hampton Roads area in the late 1980s, then gone on to killing in the Midwest in the 1990s. They do know that one of his victims was a girl from Topping. Her name was Pamela McCall, and she was 32 in 1991 when she was killed in Tennessee. A cold-case investigator sent the DNA in and it was tested and checked on public database and a law enforcement specific database, I think.

Baldwin's murders link him to Iowa, Illinois, Tennessee, Wyoming, and law enforcement believes he is connected to other murders they don't know of yet.

Baldwin would have been 24 in 1986. I don't know what he was doing then (whatever happened to old-fashioned investigative reporters, who'd dig up details and report properly??) but IF he were a taxi driver in the area in the 80s, he'd have had access to college campuses, parties, and young people. Just sayin'

Fossil:

Excellent point.  We posted on May 8, 2020 about the recent arrest of Clark Perry Baldwin on the "Colonial Parkway Murders" page on Facebook.

meaww.com/clark-baldwin-iowa-serial-killer-arrested-decades-old-slayings-of-three-women-iowa-pregnant-suspect#disqus_thread


Thanks.



Bill Thomas

[cleopatra]

Atwell’s instincts pertaining to the Predators on the Parkway focus on Liberty Security, a decades-old defunct security guard service. “They were shady,” he explains. “Their company president was deported. They had access to the water. A couple of their people have had issues since.” Atwell further believes that an associate of Liberty was present at a party visited by Call and Hailey on the morning of their disappearance. “I know [York County Major] Ron Montgomery claims it ain’t so, but I think it was possible anhe was there.”

It would be good to know who the associate was at the party.

[derby]

Sorry if this has already been discussed, but so much of this sounds like Ed Edward's preferred type of situation.  He apparently had recently been released from prison in Pennsylvania before CPK appeared.  He spent much of his life traveling around the country murdering couples ... usually involving cars.  He liked to cozy up to law enforcement ... so much so that he likely could have easily obtained references to get a job at Liberty.  If not a job, it is really easy to see him sitting down at the local cafe or bar and learning from local law enforcement all he needed to commit and get away with these homicides.  He loved the limelight and sometimes inserted himself into investigations.  He also was adept at framing others for the crimes he committed.  He wouldn't hesitate to appear at a law enforcement employee's home in a clown mask and killing the individual in order to avoid exposure ... this is a guy who took a young man under his wing (maybe adopted him, I don't recall), took out a life insurance policy on him, then murdered him without any compunction.  I've taken a look at a few of the images of the crime scene investigations and there's even an individual who looks a bit like Edwards dressed in civilian clothes in a couple of them.  Just a possibility.

[billthom56]

Aug 15, 2020 13:56:47 GMT cleopatra said:

Atwell’s instincts pertaining to the Predators on the Parkway focus on Liberty Security, a decades-old defunct security guard service. “They were shady,” he explains. “Their company president was deported. They had access to the water. A couple of their people have had issues since.” Atwell further believes that an associate of Liberty was present at a party visited by Call and Hailey on the morning of their disappearance. “I know [York County Major] Ron Montgomery claims it ain’t so, but I think it was possible anhe was there.”

It would be good to know who the associate was at the party.

Cleo:

The late Fred Atwell claimed that Steve Blackmon was seen at the party attended by Keith Call and Cassandra Hailey.  He spoke to me about it numerous times.  Other people who attended the party don't seem to recall Blackmon being there.

Thanks.



Bill Thomas

[cleopatra]

There is no known connection between any of these 2 victims.  

The part in this article that caught my attention is where it mentions that the female victim was caught shoplifting at a Richmond department store in 1988.  

Brian stopped working for Liberty in August 1988.  His job with Liberty was a loss prevention/security guard at department stores.

I am wondering who the loss prevention security guard was who caught Deborah shoplifting?  What if he worked for Liberty?

The couple was last seen at 11:30P.M. The female's car was parked in front of her apartment building.  The male's car was in front of his apartment building, but it wasn't running.  If the CPK was their killer, what if he went back to get the male victim's car, not knowing it wasnt running?

-------

June 23, 1990

The Fairfax County woman whose decomposed body was found outside Richmond earlier this month with the body of a former boyfriend may have been holding thousands of dollars for a jailed drug dealer, authorities have told the boyfriend's father.

The body of Deborah Ferguson, 21, a 1987 Robinson Secondary School graduate and a student at Virginia Commonwealth University, was found with the body of James Sherrin, 20, in a wooded area 15 miles from Richmond. The cause of their deaths has not been determined.

Bradley P. Coats, Sherrin's father, said yesterday that police officials told him Ferguson may have been holding a large sum of money for the drug dealer. Coats said his daughter, who also was a friend of Ferguson's, had said the Fairfax woman had been spending large sums of money "and I don't know where she got it from."

The Hanover County Sheriff's Department, which is handling the investigation, declined to comment on the case.

Sources have told the Richmond Times-Dispatch that Ferguson was keeping money for a 30-year-old convicted drug dealer named Mark Miller, whom she met through another employee at the Richmond restaurant where she worked. After Miller was arrested on drug charges in January, the employee asked Ferguson to keep Miller's money in her apartment, the newspaper said.

The newspaper also said Ferguson took part in cocaine parties.

"I know she did smoke pot and she drank," said Jason Coats, brother of the slain man. "I've seen her. I've been with them when they've done it.

"There was no addiction or anything like that. They were just kids who had fun. I know my brother and I know Debbie fairly well. They just don't seem like the type to do cocaine parties."

James Ferguson, of Fairfax, the slain woman's father, said he didn't know anything about the allegations. Anyone with information about his daughter's death "should take it to the police," he said. "Nobody is going to have anything definitive until the police solve the crime. Anything else is speculation or gossip."

Miller's attorney, David Boone, declined to comment.

Boone was Ferguson's attorney when she was charged with shoplifting in 1988. She was arrested for taking $140 in merchandise from a Richmond-area department store. A judge sentenced her to perform 50 hours of community service, the newspaper said.

Friends at Robinson school remembered Ferguson as a lively student and talented artist. She was to have been a senior next year at VCU's School of the Arts, where she majored in painting and print-making, the school said.

Bradley Coats said Ferguson dated his son from May 1988 until last December, and said Ferguson remained a friend of the family's.

He said Ferguson had not seen his son for at least a month before she went to his town house on the evening of May 18, the last time the pair was seen. They were reported missing to Richmond police on May 26. "I do not know why she came over to see my son," he said.

The CPK couldvhave killed these two.  Once again, the whole relocating of the victims bodies, then concealing their bodies, is part of his ritual.  Why bother going through all the trouble?  Why not just kill and leave?

 

[cleopatra]

Was Ron Hawthorn looked into?

He was the original owner of Liberty.  He sold the company to Ron Little but remained active with the business.

[billthom56]

Sept 19, 2020 20:57:11 GMT cleopatra said:

Was Ron Hawthorn looked into?

He was the original owner of Liberty.  He sold the company to Ron Little but remained active with the business.

Cleo:

I think his name is John Hawthorne.

Thanks

Bill Thomas

[cleopatra]

Sept 27, 2020 18:44:14 GMT billthom56 said:

Sept 19, 2020 20:57:11 GMT cleopatra said:

Was Ron Hawthorn looked into?

He was the original owner of Liberty.  He sold the company to Ron Little but remained active with the business.

Cleo:

I think his name is John Hawthorne.

Thanks

Bill Thomas

Correct.  And its spelled Jon Hawthorne.  Jon Knight Hawthorne.

[tosh]

From ASKOE, according to John Morse “Little was not much more than a glorified security guard working at a gas station/convenience store called Little Suzy gas station”.
Was Morse speaking tongue in cheek here or did Ron Little actually work at a Little Sue food store?

[cleopatra]

Oct 6, 2020 22:08:59 GMT tosh said:

From ASKOE, according to John Morse “Little was not much more than a glorified security guard working at a gas station/convenience store called Little Suzy gas station”.
Was Morse speaking tongue in cheek here or did Ron Little actually work at a Little Sue Foodstore?

That's a really good question.

Little Sue's is where Bkackmon and his partner assaulted man they took into custody. It's in Wicomico where Laura, where Laura lived.

[tosh]

From reading the replies on a post about him on The Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page a commenter said he did work at a Little Sue Gas Station - security.
A photo of him (8/8/1989) was also posted in the replies.

[cleopatra]

Oct 7, 2020 9:03:39 GMT tosh said:

From reading the replies on a post about him on The Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page a commenter said he did work at a Little Sue Gas Station - security.
A photo of him (8/8/1989) was also posted in the replies.

When you say, "about him...", who are you talking about?  Blackmon?  And, who is thatia photo of?  Is it Blackmon?