Possible Victims: Jeff Scott & Karen Noble in Bluefield

[cleopatra]

I found my old notes.

A police investigation said six shots were fired at the scene, which now gives weight to mustangman's question - shouldn't someone in one of the nearby houses have heard gunfire?

When Timmy pulled up to the burning truck, he didn't mention if there was any other vehicle parked near the scene.  If the killer was still down at the creek with Karen Noble and he had a car or truck there, Timmy would have seen it.  If drove away while Timmy drove to the nearest house, Timmy or his girlfriend would have seen headlights and heard a car drive off.  I suspect the killer either sailed away in a boat that he lodged there earlier, or he lived nearby and walked home.  

Unless, the killer first dragged Karen's body to the water, then went back to the truck, doused it with fuel, lit in on fire, then drove away right before Timmy drove up.  Which means the killer drove the opposite direction than where Timmy was coming from, or Timmy would have passed the killer as he was driving away.  However, if the killer did drive away, there would have had to be an accomplice, or how would the killer have driven the truck and his vehicle to the site?

These experts don't have the part where Timmy said that he returned to the truck with his friend and they both removed Jeff from the truck.  A police report says two men pulled Jeff from the truck, so those two men must have been Timmy and his friend, not a passing motorist.  Timmy does state that when he got to the burning truck he checked for a pulse.  A police report says that the fire fighters extinguished the blaze, which means the truck was on fire when Timmy checked for a pulse.  Just as I thought it was from all I've read.

Excerpts from various articles: 

Timmy Vaughn, 20, was driving his girlfriend home when he spotted a fire
along Route 61 in Giles County, less than a mile from the Bland County line.
Initially, he thought a trash bin had been set ablaze. Drawing closer, he
made a horrific discovery.

"As I got up there I saw it was a truck," Vaughn said last week, recalling
the events from 33 years ago. "I stopped and got out and walked down to the
truck. I saw a person in the back. I felt (for) the pulse. It was obvious
they were deceased."

Vaughn had found Scott's body about 11:50 p.m. Vaughn said he experienced a
"very, very weird sensation" that caused him to look to the right toward
Wolf Creek.

"I turned and looked in that direction and cold chills came over me," he
said. In his line of sight, obscured by darkness and brush, was the place
where Karen Noble would soon be found shot and drowned. Vaughn didn't
venture there, but instead went and called for help.

-----------------------------------
After discovering the body of Jeff Scott, Timmy Vaughn drove to the closest
house and called authorities. "I knew the woman who lived there," he said.
"It was my buddy's grandmother - he was there. I called the police from
there."

According to police reports, Vaughn and another man pulled Scott from the
bed of the burning pick-up truck. When authorities arrived on the scene and
began extinguishing the blaze, they discovered Scott's 1977 blue Datsun
pick-up truck had been deliberately set on fire, according to Daily
Telegraph reports of the incident. Firemen who went to get water from Wolf
Creek, about 30 yards away, discovered the body of Karen Noble face down
near the river bank.

Autopsy reports show Scott died of a gunshot to the head, and suffered
third- and fourth-degree burns to his head. Noble had two superficial
gunshot wounds to her head, but died of drowning.
The report states Scott's watch stopped at 11:02 p.m. and Noble's at 11:25
p.m.

Investigators found six shots were fired at the scene, according to their
reports. Three shots were fired at the victims, and three bullets were fired
at the gas tank of the truck but did not penetrate.
Laboratory analysis showed three blood types present at the scene: AB
positive, which was Scott's blood type; A positive, Noble's blood type; and
type O blood recovered from the bumper of the vehicle.
Two cigarette butts, an empty pint of vodka, an empty Camel cigarette pack,
11 assorted cigarette butts and an empty pill container were also at the
scene.

----------

Timmy Vaughn, now an officer with the Pearisburg Police Department, hopes a
new investigation will close the case. Vaughn has become the unofficial
expert on the murder through the years, collecting all the information there
is to be had about what happened on the banks of Wolf Creek. "I always felt
a connection because I was there that night," he said.

[mustangman]

Jul 13, 2019 22:50:46 GMT griswold said:

I'd say it's realistic that the girlfriend was not guaranteed to be traumatised, she was shaken but continued about her day as others would try when a crime is committed and they want to move on. They didnt know Karen was nearby till later and all she saw was a burning truck and her boyfriend check a pulse like her hero. If Jeff's body wasn't burning as you stated Mustangman, and she saw two boys pull Jeff's body out it had to be after he called for help at the grandmother's house and got the friend. Unless the motorist WAS the one who helped Timmy initally, then Timmy wouldn't be viewed as callous as someone who went for help first. That would reinforce Timmy's story and the Authorities saying a motorist helped. Therefore Mustangman has shown Timmy and the motorist pulled Jeff out and then the friend joined Timmy to see what was going on after help was called for. And me with the assist!

Well the girlfriend was clearly shaken, I guess she could've went  to work the next day after such a traumatizing incident and having been up all night with no sleep. 

I never said that Timmy & a passing motorist pulled Jeff's body from the truck bed.  In fact I never mention a passing motorist in my posts.  I only state what's been posted before that Jeff's "upper body" may have been on fire or badly burned and that no one would've left a body to continue burning in a truck still on fire, Timmy could've simply grabbed Jeff's legs and pulled him from the truck bed. 

I do see another interesting bit of info from this newspaper article, the girlfriend says that "Timmy was afraid to go home"??   why?

Do we have any public statements or Police reports from Timmy bout what he saw and did that night?   

Talking to the girlfriend today is still a good idea. 

[griswold]

I never said that you said passing motorist. I said you have shown, because you DID say it would be callous etc. and you have shown it inadvertently and you are apparently still not aware. Please reread all related posts.

[mustangman]

Jul 14, 2019 15:54:08 GMT griswold said:

I never said that you said passing motorist. I said you have shown, because you DID say it would be callous etc. and you have shown it inadvertently and you are apparently still not aware. Please reread all related posts.

 I have shown no such thing, just because I say no one would be so callous to leave a body burning, does this mean that a passing motorist helped Timmy.   I am not sure how you see this connection, please explain it to me.  Timmy could've easily pulled the body from the truck without anyone's help, do you mean he only got enough courage to do this because of a passing motorist is helping him? 

 

[cleopatra]

Two cigarette butts, an empty pint of vodka, an empty Camel cigarette pack, 11 assorted cigarette butts and an empty pill container were also at the scene.

That's a lot of stuff. The bottle could have had fingerprints. The killer was either dumb, drunk, or in a hurry, to have left all those things behind.  Or, the items were planted to throw off the investigators, or to frame someone..... like that guy named Byrd.  

There was a bunch of Camel cigarette butts on the porch of Lowder's cabin.  Plus, Lowder said the man with a limp who was at his cabin had a pint of whiskey in his back pocket.

I have to research the crime location. I'm not 100% certain the spot I posted  a picture of is correct.  It was less than a mile from the Bland boundary, in Narrows, Giles County, on Rte. 61, on a  secondary route.

[cleopatra]

Timmy and his girlfriend saw a "SEARING GLOW OF FLAMES", which means the truck were ablaze when Timmy pulled up next to it and checked for a pulse.

Timmy IMMEDIATELY set off for the NEAREST HOUSE, where his friend was.  Timmy and that friend (not a passing motorist) pulled Jeff from the truck. 



"He was 20 years old, riding along Virginia 61 near the Giles/Bland County line when he saw the searing glow of flames. At first, he thought a trash bin had been set ablaze at a popular hangout spot on Wolf Creek. But as he drew nearer, he realized it was not trash or brush on fire. It was the cab of a pickup." 


"Pulling over, he approached the vehicle to see if someone needed help. He peered over the side of the truck into the bed. A body. Immediately, he jumped back into his vehicle, drove to the nearest house, which was his friend's mother's house, and called the police. His friend was at the house and together, he and Vaughn pulled the body from the truck"

[cleopatra]

Around 9PM, Scott picked up Karen from her house, located at 316 Parkway Avenue, Bluefield, West Virginia.

The witness Lowder reported that around 9PM he saw a blue Datusun pick-up truck with West Virginia tags near his cabin and a couple MATCHING Jeff's and Karen's descriptions get out and head to the creek.  An hour later (this would be about 10pm), he saw 3 people get into the truck, but could not make out their faces because of the distance and darkness.

----------------------------------------------------

"Around 9 p.m., Scott picked Noble up from her house near Bluefield, W.Va., and the two set off together for their date. They didn't tell anyone where they were going." 


"Lowder said around 9 p.m. he saw a blue Datsun with West Virginia tags pull up near his cabin and a young couple matching Scott and Noble's descriptions got out and headed toward the creek. About an hour later, he saw three individuals return to the vehicle and get in, driving off "at a leisurely pace." Lowder couldn't identify the three people due to the darkness. Later, under hypnosis, Lowder positively identified all three as Scott, Noble and George Voster Bird, an infamous criminal from Bland County who had escaped from the Giles County jail in February the year before."

[cleopatra]

The suspect Bird had an alibi, stating he was in Ohio at the time of the murders.  Although, when Bird told officers he witnessed a rendezvouz of a SHORT, FAT DEPUTY and a thin dark-haired waitress, the police discounted Bird's statement, saying that those descriptions matched Jeff's and Karen's. 

Hardly!  Jeff Scott was not short and fat.  Jeff was 6 feet tall and fit.  Fit enough to have been playing pick-up basketball all day long the day he was murdered.

Obviously, the  police were not about to start trouble for a fellow officer -  "short, fat deputy" - even if he was in another state.  Or, the police didn't believe an officer of the law would have any kind of "secret rendeezvouz" with a waitress in a truck in a field.  


"When police questioned Bird about his whereabouts the evening of the murders, Bird gave them an alibi that he was in Middle Point, Ohio, where he had witnessed a secret rendezvous of a "short, fat deputy" and a "tall, thin dark-haired waitress" at a pickup truck parked in a field. Coincidentally, those descriptions of the "deputy" and the "waitress" match those of Scott and Noble, respectively, and the location where the bodies of Scott and Noble were found were a pickup truck and a grassy area. Bird's alibi did not check out."

[cleopatra]

Bluefield Daily Telegraph

"What happened between the last time Karen and Jeff were seen alive and the time at which their bodies were found remains a mystery to this day." 


"Both Karen and Jeff were shot, although Karen’s official cause of death was drowning. Jeff, in addition to being shot, had received severe burns to his face and neck." 


"Authorities utilized helicopters, search dogs, and many officers on foot in their search for answers. "

 

[cleopatra]

[cleopatra]

[cleopatra]

The burning truck was found on Rt. 61 Narrows, Giles County, next to Wolf Creek, less than a mile away from the border Bland-Giles border.

[cleopatra]

Rte.  61 turns into Park, turns into Wolf Creek Highway, turns into Rte. 61.

[cleopatra]

Narrows is a pretty small town.  Why go there unless you live there or are visiting someone who lives there?

Maybe the killer lived in Narrows.  Could he have worked in or near Bluefield, or have been there for some kind of Memorial Day celebration?  Maybe he watched a movie in a theater or was near a theater that the victims were at.  The couple may have gone to see a movie.  The timeline fits with how long movies last.  Film starting at 9:15pm, end around 10-10:30PM.  It's a 35-40 minute drive from the Bluefield Theater to Narrows, which a drive after a movie ending at 10:30PM to Narrows would have get one there at 11:15-11:30pm.  If the couple did watch a movie, the killer could have been waiting in the truck in the parking lot.

Jeff Beard & Mary Leonard went to the movies the night they disappeared. 
Keith Call & Cassandra Hailey went to a the movies.
David Knobling & Robin Edwards went to see a movie, but it was sold out.  Instead, they hung out at the arcade next to the theater.

[cleopatra]

Jul 14, 2019 17:45:28 GMT cleopatra said:

Two cigarette butts, an empty pint of vodka, an empty Camel cigarette pack, 11 assorted cigarette butts and an empty pill container were also at the scene.

That's a lot of stuff. The bottle could have had fingerprints. The killer was either dumb, drunk, or in a hurry, to have left all those things behind.  Or, the items were planted to throw off the investigators, or to frame someone..... like that guy named Byrd.  

There was a bunch of Camel cigarette butts on the porch of Lowder's cabin.  Plus, Lowder said the man with a limp who was at his cabin had a pint of whiskey in his back pocket.

I have to research the crime location. I'm not 100% certain the spot I posted  a picture of is correct.  It was less than a mile from the Bland boundary, in Narrows, Giles County, on Rte. 61, on a  secondary route.

I'm not saying Lowder was the killer, I'm just stating things I've noticed - Lowder certainly was able to recall and describe things that became big clues and evidence to the crime.  Such as the cigarettes, then a bunch of Camel cig butts were on his porch, the "pint of whiskey" in the limping man's hind pocket, he recalled the limper mentioned the name of the suspect Bird's mother or in-law.  Lowder couldn't see the faces of the people because he said they were too far and it was dark, yet he saw "West Virginia" on the truck's plates, that the truck was a Datsun and that it was color blue.  That's pretty exact.  Not a dark truck, green, purple, brown, or gray, but BLUE.  Everything Lowder said was right on target.

I wonder if the investigator's went to the spot the blue truck was parked when it was on Lowder's property, and also down to the creek where that couple went, to see if they could find any Camel cigarette butts lying around.  I doubt they did, or it would have been mentioned.  Bird was never charged or prosecuted for Jeff's and Karen's murders because the only evidence they had against him was Lowder's statement and the fact that Bird's mother and step-father lived on Rte 61 about a mile away from the scene of the crime.   It was never proved that Bird was in Virginia at the time of the murders, and his alibi was never looked into.  After Bird's trial for kidnapping a couple and for ATTEMPTED rape of the female, Bird hung himself in his jail cell.  Bird left a suicide note saying he was sorry he couldn't help out with the Scott-Noble murder.  He never confessed to it.  Another thing is that Bird accused of an attempted rape and was supposedly a rapist.  Karen Noble wasn't raped.  

I wonder about this Lowder witness.  I also  wonder if Lowder had any relatives who engaged in criminal acts.  Someone he'd have wanted to protect, to cover for, or make sure the family name didn't get dragged through the dirt because of that person - like a brother, cousin, son, nephew, etc.....?