Goleta

[dancartell]

Jul 8, 2013 21:49:50 GMT Agent99 aka Sandia said:

O.K. I'm back, I just wanted to quickly answer some of your questions truthy. Actually without claiming to be any authority and just stating things as I understand them, doing a rash of burglaries, hang up/obscene phone calls, prowling's was part of his M.O. before an attack. So I think the 5 burglaries before O/M would fit with his M.O. So that brings up questions more questions that I have. I wonder if there were a rash of burglaries before H/H or S/D? phone calls? prowlings? (I don't even know if there were hang up calls before O/M either).

The final burglary on Windsor Ct. was at 10:15 p.m. and the murders were at 3:05 a.m. and in between that there was a bicycle theft between 7:00 p.m. and midnight. So your point is well taken about how after a rash of 5 burglaries and a bicycle theft was he still lurking in the area. Possibly that is what he got off on the adrenaline rush, the risk taking. That brings to mind his taunting call to the police when he called them dumb. I wonder if he was watching their patrol cars with their spot lights or flashlight and thinking how superior he was and how dumb they were. Of course we know he was not superior but very inferior.

The "random" coins -- what I mean is they were from loose change and just thrown into a Sparklett's water container kept in the master bedroom closet. Not a coin collection or coins of particular value and that was part of his M.O. too. Another quirk. Heavy bulky low value coins. As best I can recall my neighbor said they totaled around $100. OCD? I don't know.

The size of the neighborhood involved: if you go to google maps and go to Goleta the area was bordered by Patterson, Calle Real, Kellogg, Queen Anne, (but another burglary of a bike might have been just a teensy bit North east of Queen Anne)

O.K. done with rambling, back to work!

Interesting info, coming back to the whole coins issue - I discovered that coin collectors and enthusiasts LOVE searching random coins because part of the thrill is the possibility of finding rare coins like foreign coins, old silver quarters, silver dimes and nickels, old pennies from the 1890`s to the 1950`s ..... that is why I suspect he was taking the random coins - the more I think about it, the more this info reveals that EAR was and probably still is some coin collector . If they do catch this guy I would bet my bottom dollar they will find that he has a collection of coins

[truthandsoul]

Jul 10, 2013 21:57:39 GMT dancartell said:

Interesting info, coming back to the whole coins issue - I discovered that coin collectors and enthusiasts LOVE searching random coins because part of the thrill is the possibility of finding rare coins like foreign coins, old silver quarters, silver dimes and nickels, old pennies from the 1890`s to the 1950`s ..... that is why I suspect he was taking the random coins - the more I think about it, the more this info reveals that EAR was and probably still is some coin collector . If they do catch this guy I would bet my bottom dollar they will find that he has a collection of coins

Indeed! One man's "random", with regards to coins, is another man's treasure. It might have appeared random, but there was intent. Or he just grabbed handfuls and sorted them out later.

[dancartell]

Jul 10, 2013 23:54:15 GMT cerulean said:

Ok; who in California is going to volunteer to scout out any coin conventions?

yeah it seems like a very long shot if done today but if this was back in the 70`s when the case was still hot just after the crimes had occurred its the sort of avenue of investigation that could possibly have yielded something......

[dancartell]

Jul 11, 2013 1:42:33 GMT truthandsoul said:

Jul 10, 2013 21:57:39 GMT dancartell said:

Interesting info, coming back to the whole coins issue - I discovered that coin collectors and enthusiasts LOVE searching random coins because part of the thrill is the possibility of finding rare coins like foreign coins, old silver quarters, silver dimes and nickels, old pennies from the 1890`s to the 1950`s ..... that is why I suspect he was taking the random coins - the more I think about it, the more this info reveals that EAR was and probably still is some coin collector . If they do catch this guy I would bet my bottom dollar they will find that he has a collection of coins

Indeed! One man's "random", with regards to coins, is another man's treasure. It might have appeared random, but there was intent. Or he just grabbed handfuls and sorted them out later.

Precisely !

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

Wow, That's why I love this board! Now I DO think he probably was a coin collector. I was scratching my head thinking where is he putting all those coins? Is he keeping them in his room? Hording them? Renting a storage unit for them? Burying them? Throwing them away? Bringing them into banks to exchange for dollars? And most of all WHY? I was just thinking it was a quirk but now I think you are onto something. I'll bet he WAS a coin collector! He scans all those coins looking for for the thrill of finding a rare coin. That finally makes sense to me. That also seems to fit with a collector or trading stamps (S&H Green Stamps or Blue Chip Stamps)

Also I am thinking again of the coin store owner in Visalia that was murdered. They did make an arrest in that case but now it makes me wonder again about that case. It was discussed at length on the old board and the daughter of the man arrested for the murder came on trying to find out if her dad was innocent as he claims or if he is guilty. If I recall correctly, it seems like they did get the right man, although it also seems like the evidence was not that strong, but I can't recall the details of that case.

[gskonstracker]

Jul 7, 2013 22:37:58 GMT portofleith said:

Calle Real is a frontage street that parallels Hwy 101.  Sandia is the person who could tell us what businesses were there then. The clerk specifically mentioned that Mr. October was seen as far as St. Vincents at 4200 Calle Real.  The liquor store was at 4010 Calle Real.

Calle Real is a strange road to be walking on. It doesn't really go anywhere.  Looking around google earth I noticed that there is a medical complex on Pesetas Lane. It looks like it might have been around since the 70's. Currently, there is CenCal Health on one side of the street along with Village Properties and SanSum clinic on the other side of the street. Maybe Mr. October was working at one of these locations and lived close by? There is also a high school right there Bishop Garcia Diego HS.

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

Jul 11, 2013 6:07:36 GMT gskonstracker said:

Jul 7, 2013 22:37:58 GMT portofleith said:

Calle Real is a frontage street that parallels Hwy 101.  Sandia is the person who could tell us what businesses were there then. The clerk specifically mentioned that Mr. October was seen as far as St. Vincents at 4200 Calle Real.  The liquor store was at 4010 Calle Real.

Calle Real is a strange road to be walking on. It doesn't really go anywhere.  Looking around google earth I noticed that there is a medical complex on Pesetas Lane. It looks like it might have been around since the 70's. Currently, there is CenCal Health on one side of the street along with Village Properties and SanSum clinic on the other side of the street. Maybe Mr. October was working at one of these locations and lived close by? There is also a high school right there Bishop Garcia Diego HS.

Well, Calle Real is strange in that it stops a lot and doesn't go through and you have to hop on and off the freeway to continue on it.    It's pretty much like a frontage road along the 101 freeway.  It starts North west of Goleta and stops at Pueblo Street near the Santa Barbara Cottage Hospital.  It picks up again in Summerland where it is called Via Real and does the same sort of start and stop situation on through Carpenteria.  It actually is a very long street.

There is a little strip mall between State Street and Pesetas and I know exactly where that liquor store is.  I don't think anything has changed in that particular strip mall as far as the building itself, stores may have come in and out but the building is the same.  I think that liquor store has always been there but I can't be positive of that.
.   
Can you fill me in on the Mr. October situation and the coins.  Where were those coins stolen from?  From a suspected GSK burglary?  Standing in front of the liquor store looking toward St. Vincents, I guess it is possible to see that far, but did someone come out of the liquor store, walk out to the street and stand and watch this guy walk that far?  If so why?

[Drifter]

Jul 11, 2013 5:52:47 GMT Agent99 aka Sandia said:

Wow, That's why I love this board! Now I DO think he probably was a coin collector. I was scratching my head thinking where is he putting all those coins? Is he keeping them in his room? Hording them? Renting a storage unit for them? Burying them? Throwing them away? Bringing them into banks to exchange for dollars? And most of all WHY? I was just thinking it was a quirk but now I think you are onto something. I'll bet he WAS a coin collector! He scans all those coins looking for for the thrill of finding a rare coin. That finally makes sense to me. That also seems to fit with a collector or trading stamps (S&H Green Stamps or Blue Chip Stamps)

Also I am thinking again of the coin store owner in Visalia that was murdered. They did make an arrest in that case but now it makes me wonder again about that case. It was discussed at length on the old board and the daughter of the man arrested for the murder came on trying to find out if her dad was innocent as he claims or if he is guilty. If I recall correctly, it seems like they did get the right man, although it also seems like the evidence was not that strong, but I can't recall the details of that case.

Well, given that he took coins, then by definition he was a coin collector.  But the conclusion that coin collecting was a hobby of his is a bit of a stretch, in my opinion.  Do you really think that rare coins were on his mind while he was in process of committing a horrible crime?  I wouldn't think so.

Would make more sense to me if he took coins randomly and on a whim, a memento of that particular attack.  Or alternately, that he took whatever coin or group of coins that symbolized to him the degree of enjoyment or sense of conquest that the particular attack had brought him.

Drifter 

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

Jul 11, 2013 8:28:50 GMT Drifter said:

Jul 11, 2013 5:52:47 GMT Agent99 aka Sandia said:

Wow, That's why I love this board! Now I DO think he probably was a coin collector. I was scratching my head thinking where is he putting all those coins? Is he keeping them in his room? Hording them? Renting a storage unit for them? Burying them? Throwing them away? Bringing them into banks to exchange for dollars? And most of all WHY? I was just thinking it was a quirk but now I think you are onto something. I'll bet he WAS a coin collector! He scans all those coins looking for for the thrill of finding a rare coin. That finally makes sense to me. That also seems to fit with a collector or trading stamps (S&H Green Stamps or Blue Chip Stamps)

Also I am thinking again of the coin store owner in Visalia that was murdered. They did make an arrest in that case but now it makes me wonder again about that case. It was discussed at length on the old board and the daughter of the man arrested for the murder came on trying to find out if her dad was innocent as he claims or if he is guilty. If I recall correctly, it seems like they did get the right man, although it also seems like the evidence was not that strong, but I can't recall the details of that case.

Well, given that he took coins, then by definition he was a coin collector.  But the conclusion that coin collecting was a hobby of his is a bit of a stretch, in my opinion.  Do you really think that rare coins were on his mind while he was in process of committing a horrible crime?  I wouldn't think so.

Would make more sense to me if he took coins randomly and on a whim, a memento of that particular attack.  Or alternately, that he took whatever coin or group of coins that symbolized to him the degree of enjoyment or sense of conquest that the particular attack had brought him.

Drifter 

That also is a good point Drifter but that brings to mind another question.  For instance, I know he stole coins from my neighbor's house but do not have a list of what he took from the other burglaries. I wonder if a list is available of what he took from the murder victim's homes. The only items I am aware that he took from a murder victim's home was the small crystal lamp and I think a crystal globe from Manuela's and he left a TV  in the back yard (probably as an attempt to make it look like a burglary). I am wondering if he really stole much, other than "trophies", as mementos from his murder victim's homes.   I don't see coins as a memento unless it was a special coin or a coin made into jewelry, like a coin ring, coin earrings etc.   Does anyone know if there is a list of items stolen in general and especially a list of what was stolen from murder victims? 

[dancartell]

Jul 11, 2013 8:28:50 GMT Drifter said:

Jul 11, 2013 5:52:47 GMT Agent99 aka Sandia said:

Wow, That's why I love this board! Now I DO think he probably was a coin collector. I was scratching my head thinking where is he putting all those coins? Is he keeping them in his room? Hording them? Renting a storage unit for them? Burying them? Throwing them away? Bringing them into banks to exchange for dollars? And most of all WHY? I was just thinking it was a quirk but now I think you are onto something. I'll bet he WAS a coin collector! He scans all those coins looking for for the thrill of finding a rare coin. That finally makes sense to me. That also seems to fit with a collector or trading stamps (S&H Green Stamps or Blue Chip Stamps)

Also I am thinking again of the coin store owner in Visalia that was murdered. They did make an arrest in that case but now it makes me wonder again about that case. It was discussed at length on the old board and the daughter of the man arrested for the murder came on trying to find out if her dad was innocent as he claims or if he is guilty. If I recall correctly, it seems like they did get the right man, although it also seems like the evidence was not that strong, but I can't recall the details of that case.

Well, given that he took coins, then by definition he was a coin collector.  But the conclusion that coin collecting was a hobby of his is a bit of a stretch, in my opinion.  Do you really think that rare coins were on his mind while he was in process of committing a horrible crime?  I wouldn't think so.

Would make more sense to me if he took coins randomly and on a whim, a memento of that particular attack.  Or alternately, that he took whatever coin or group of coins that symbolized to him the degree of enjoyment or sense of conquest that the particular attack had brought him.

Drifter 

He stole stole the coins from a house he burglarized which had no occupants in it and the horrible crime he later committed was hours away........ , so stepping back a little, in that house with no occupants the only thing in his mind would have been valuables, souvenirs or whatever he could get that would be worth his while. Given where Sandia says the occupants kept the coins its possible that EAR discovered the coins the coins while ransacking the house and once he discovered the random coins then the possibility of rare coins popped into his mind hence he got the whole lot of random coins to sort through later.

He took most of the coins away because it would be better to sort them out leisurely later at his house as opposed to the house he had just burglarized because he wouldn`t have been able to sort them out in the dark and if he switched on the lights then he would have been putting himself in a compromising situation.

Regarding coins being taken as momento from a particular attack this actually happened , in Sudden Terror there was a house were he raped the lady and afterwards he took away some Canadian coins.
Only coin collectors actually value regular Canadian coins , if you get a Canadian coin in your change or have some leftover from a trip you wont necessarily be able to use it to buy stuff hence they aren`t of much value to non-coin collectors in the US . The more I look at this more I am further convinced he was a coin collector. He could have easily taken another souvenir from the lady`s house like one of her jewellery or drivers license ........ but Canadian coins outside Canada would only appeal to coin collector types .....

[dancartell]

Jul 12, 2013 0:33:58 GMT cerulean said:

He stole a large amount of coins before a Goleta attack? I really don't understand the amount of things he was supposed to have taken from homes. One that comes to mind is a victim heard him taking stuff out in paper bags. Out to where I dont know. His car would have had to have been very close by there, but in Goleta he stole a bike. Why would you steal a large amount of coins and then go lurk around waiting to attack later? Coins jingle and make noise. Or you could leak coins as you move into a yard or home that someone might see and follow. It seems rather strange to be doing that. Canadian coins are easily found nearly everywhere in the US, but didnt he steal a jar or two of pennies, too? Very strange.

You raise an interesting point regarding the whereabouts of EAR between the burglaries and the more serious crime he committed later, the truth is at this moment none of us know for certain - he could have taken his loot home and had a snack before going back or maybe he lurked .... he also could have used the bike to get to his car a mile away and leave his loot there --- at this point in time we can only speculate...

Canadian coins aren`t as easily found everywhere in the US, in states neighboring Canada its easy , but by the time you get down to Texas , Arizona,Arkansas,Mississippi,Florida etc you would have to search entire rolls of coins to get a single Canadian one . True , he also stole a jar of pennies and tell me what sort of self respecting burglar would haul away a jar of pennies ? Again the answer to that question brings me 360 degrees back to what I suspect-- he is a coin collector. There certain pennies that coins collectors desire (I alluded to these a few posts back)and its most likely thats why he hauled away the pennies ...

Your average burglar would have taken items of greater value than a jar of pennies which added up to a few dollars, only a coin collector burglar would value such a jar to the point of stealing it....

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

Jul 12, 2013 1:14:34 GMT dancartell said:

Jul 12, 2013 0:33:58 GMT cerulean said:

He stole a large amount of coins before a Goleta attack? I really don't understand the amount of things he was supposed to have taken from homes. One that comes to mind is a victim heard him taking stuff out in paper bags. Out to where I dont know. His car would have had to have been very close by there, but in Goleta he stole a bike. Why would you steal a large amount of coins and then go lurk around waiting to attack later? Coins jingle and make noise. Or you could leak coins as you move into a yard or home that someone might see and follow. It seems rather strange to be doing that. Canadian coins are easily found nearly everywhere in the US, but didnt he steal a jar or two of pennies, too? Very strange.

You raise an interesting point regarding the whereabouts of EAR between the burglaries and the more serious crime he committed later, the truth is at this moment none of us know for certain - he could have taken his loot home and had a snack before going back or maybe he lurked .... he also could have used the bike to get to his car a mile away and leave his loot there --- at this point in time we can only speculate...

Canadian coins aren`t as easily found everywhere in the US, in states neighboring Canada its easy , but by the time you get down to Texas , Arizona,Arkansas,Mississippi,Florida etc you would have to search entire rolls of coins to get a single Canadian one . True , he also stole a jar of pennies and tell me what sort of self respecting burglar would haul away a jar of pennies ? Again the answer to that question brings me 360 degrees back to what I suspect-- he is a coin collector. There certain pennies that coins collectors desire (I alluded to these a few posts back)and its most likely thats why he hauled away the pennies ...

Your average burglar would have taken items of greater value than a jar of pennies which added up to a few dollars, only a coin collector burglar would value such a jar to the point of stealing it....

Unless, he was just a weirdo and had quirks that make no sense to normal people.  Nonetheless, I like the idea of coin collector.

[Drifter]

dan ...

Point taken re: stealing coins from house where no attack occurred.

But I'm just trying to wrap my head around the idea of a guy who seemed to exist for no other purpose than to make life miserable for others ... getting sidetracked into the rare coins business while he's out doing his favorite nocturnal adventure.

There's no indication that he later kept the coins, is there?  If not, he could have easily disposed of them or used them to buy snacks.  I just don't see that the coin collector theory gets us anywhere.

Drifter

[Drifter]

Jul 13, 2013 5:47:08 GMT cerulean said:

Jul 12, 2013 6:47:13 GMT Drifter said:

dan ...

Point taken re: stealing coins from house where no attack occurred.

But I'm just trying to wrap my head around the idea of a guy who seemed to exist for no other purpose than to make life miserable for others ... getting sidetracked into the rare coins business while he's out doing his favorite nocturnal adventure.

There's no indication that he later kept the coins, is there?  If not, he could have easily disposed of them or used them to buy snacks.  I just don't see that the coin collector theory gets us anywhere.

Drifter

I think it was a compulsive thing more than an opportunistic thing of him taking them for a hobby.  The coins meant something to him, but the need to take them was compulsive. Otherwise, who would weigh themselves down with 5lb of pennies when he is trying to be as quiet as possible in his escape?  He also had time to sit down and go through those coins and take only the ones he wanted, when he's in the home so long.

I'm inclined to agree with you that it was a compulsive action, part of his OCD.

But dancartell and/or Sandia may still disagree.

[dancartell]

Jul 12, 2013 6:47:13 GMT Drifter said:

dan ...

Point taken re: stealing coins from house where no attack occurred.

But I'm just trying to wrap my head around the idea of a guy who seemed to exist for no other purpose than to make life miserable for others ... getting sidetracked into the rare coins business while he's out doing his favorite nocturnal adventure.

There's no indication that he later kept the coins, is there?  If not, he could have easily disposed of them or used them to buy snacks.  I just don't see that the coin collector theory gets us anywhere.

Drifter

I would partially agree with what you said. Sure, the coin collector angle wont necessarily solve this case but I would suggest a possible importance of this information. There are people here who have POI`s that they are looking at and I beieve such minor little details about EAR`s possible hobbies can be of value when a suspect has been found and a background check is being done later on.

I will give you an example of a case were such minor details have proved relevant later on in an investigation.

1.) In the green river killer investigation – from early on the investigators found tiny microscopic paint particles on the victims bodies, this was a minor detail that wouldnt solve the case but later on when they had suspects and Ridgeway was identified and they looked into his background and found he worked in paint spraying plant and then things started to fall into place........

This little detail about coins has been sitting in front of us all along and the Canadian coins are so casually mentioned in Sudden Terror that when I first came across that detail I thought to myself “Hmmm”; It wasnt until you mentioned why EAR didnt steal particular coin types at one of his crimes that it all came together and gelled !

We know with some certainty that EAR stole random coins, jars of pennies and Canadian coins – therefore he had some sort of interest in such coins at the very least because we see this in several crime scenes. I agree he may not still have those coins but what we do know is that he was interested in them around the time of those crimes …... this info might come in handy later on in this case.

Now if someone has a POI I would advise them to look into whether the POI did have an interest in those particular coins around the time the crimes we are investigating occurred. I personally believe we need to start homing in on such minor details in this case because despite being investigated by a taskforce and numerous agencies EAR hasnt been identified and something must have and is still being missed . ….