was there a second killer working parallel to EARONS?

[walter]

Feb 12, 2019 4:28:08 GMT jackie093q said:

Feb 11, 2019 12:10:21 GMT walter said:

It’s actually a scientific fact that eye witness accounts are unreliable.

It was one person and one a lone. No one shares so many incredibly unique fetishes and mo. His script was so specific, consistent and for him. No one will share it.

Based on what I've read (which is all 3rd and 4th hand) I agree with you that based on MO, most or all of the rapes attributed to EAR/ONS were by the same person. I don't think it's that odd that most of the composites don't look like DeAngelo, since they were taken from victim descriptions, because he had a mask on when the attack occurred inside victims' homes.  I do think it's a little odd that a number of composites seem (to me anyway) to look like they are of the same person, whomever it is, does't look like any of the limited photos I've seen online of DeAngelo.  

Got to add this, but just some thoughts: My understanding is that scientific findings are actually more nuanced than simply that all eye witness accounts are unreliable.  I agree that many are unreliable and personally feel that all deserve considerable scrutiny before potentially  being accepted as accurate.  But that doesn't mean eye witness accounts are always unreliable.  Multiple factors combine to determine whether a particular eye witness account is unreliable or reliable.

True - some of them were quite accurate (imo) in representing JJD.  Others varied wildly.  Human memory as a whole is not reliable and is fairly mutable.  Sketches are another layer of uncertainty because now you are relying on an individual's unreliable memory, their ability to verbally interpret an image they have and a sketch artist's ability to work well with that person.  This doesn't even get into the assumptions that some people hold that he wore disguises.  It's tough.

[sammyt]

Feb 11, 2019 12:10:21 GMT walter said:

Feb 10, 2019 7:20:02 GMT mistress9 said:

not true specially when all the sketches look the same.

It’s actually a scientific fact that eye witness accounts are unreliable.

It was one person and one a lone. No one shares so many incredibly unique fetishes and mo. His script was so specific, consistent and for him. No one will share it.

As you say, eye witness accounts are unreliable, but I'm surprised how many of the sketches in this case look just like the few photos we have of JJD (to my eyes at least).

JJD seems to have been the solitary type.  Even his shoplifting arrest in 1979 was for a solo crime, rather than something he did in a pair or small group.

Did he have a 'bird of a feather' with him when he first started peeping and prowling as a young boy though?  Or did he just always act alone?

I still wouldn't rule out the possibility of an occasional early accomplice (VR series or EAR recon) who might look just like one of the sketches and have his own burglary conviction... someone even the ultra careful offender JJD could trust for life... might explain in part why JJD hasn't said a word to LE so far...

[imagigator]

I think the three composites they showed at the press conference for his arrest were as close as you could get to what he likely looked like at the time. The one composite where his hair is combed over was a pretty much a dead ringer for a guy 40 years younger.

[walter]

Feb 12, 2019 16:57:00 GMT sammyt said:

Feb 11, 2019 12:10:21 GMT walter said:

It’s actually a scientific fact that eye witness accounts are unreliable.

It was one person and one a lone. No one shares so many incredibly unique fetishes and mo. His script was so specific, consistent and for him. No one will share it.

As you say, eye witness accounts are unreliable, but I'm surprised how many of the sketches in this case look just like the few photos we have of JJD (to my eyes at least).

JJD seems to have been the solitary type.  Even his shoplifting arrest in 1979 was for a solo crime, rather than something he did in a pair or small group.

Did he have a 'bird of a feather' with him when he first started peeping and prowling as a young boy though?  Or did he just always act alone?

I still wouldn't rule out the possibility of an occasional early accomplice (VR series or EAR recon) who might look just like one of the sketches and have his own burglary conviction... someone even the ultra careful offender JJD could trust for life... might explain in part why JJD hasn't said a word to LE so far...

Oh totally agree that he might have had someone with him for a set of unidentified VR activities - the ones tied to him are very unique in what the ransacking looked like.  But there are probably quite a few that he didn't do those activities in when he was just starting out.

[mistress9]

Feb 12, 2019 17:42:35 GMT imagigator said:

I think the three composites they showed at the press conference for his arrest were as close as you could get to what he likely looked like at the time. The one composite where his hair is combed over was a pretty much a dead ringer for a guy 40 years younger.

it doeant look like him to me which is weird, the visalia sketches aee a dead ringer for deangelo, not sure why they werent used for the fbi.

[sammyt]

Feb 13, 2019 5:37:30 GMT mistress9 said:

Feb 12, 2019 17:42:35 GMT imagigator said:

I think the three composites they showed at the press conference for his arrest were as close as you could get to what he likely looked like at the time. The one composite where his hair is combed over was a pretty much a dead ringer for a guy 40 years younger.

it doeant look like him to me which is weird, the visalia sketches aee a dead ringer for deangelo, not sure why they werent used for the fbi.

I agree - the 'doughboy' VR sketch looks just like DeAngelo (in his chubby, comb over, cop stage) to me.

[mark]

The OP is unfounded speculation.
First, Ripon Shooter actually looks a lot like JJD, the eyes in particular; the problem is just that the whole face seems stretched horizontally, and this can be either JJD being very thin at the time (remember the baseball picture) or a byproduct of the kits used at the time.
Second, Moonie Surfer is believed to be a posthumous reinterpretation by LE, so it doesn't have any actual value.

[spodey]

I found an unidentified guy's pic from the 70s online that looked almost exactly like "Moonie Surfer" and who had a tattoo (couldn't see what it was) on his forearm.  Showed it to Morf (he wasn't impressed) and was about to send it to SCSO when JJD was arrested.  

[cherylh]

I had lunch yesterday with a guy who's a dead ringer for the "Moonie Surfer" sketch.

But then, he wasn't alive when EAR/ONS was committing his known crimes. So there is that.

[mistress9]

Feb 13, 2019 21:48:45 GMT mark said:

The OP is unfounded speculation.
First, Ripon Shooter actually looks a lot like JJD, the eyes in particular; the problem is just that the whole face seems stretched horizontally, and this can be either JJD being very thin at the time (remember the baseball picture) or a byproduct of the kits used at the time.
Second, Moonie Surfer is believed to be a posthumous reinterpretation by LE, so it doesn't have any actual value.

surely you mean vertically? and likeI said, weight loss can't change bone structureor features.

[mistress9]

Feb 14, 2019 21:55:35 GMT spodey said:

I found an unidentified guy's pic from the 70s online that looked almost exactly like "Moonie Surfer" and who had a tattoo (couldn't see what it was) on his forearm.  Showed it to Morf (he wasn't impressed) and was about to send it to SCSO when JJD was arrested.  

send me the picture privately

[jayvee1012]

in this instance, i highly doubt that there was a second killer.

[kg]

Feb 9, 2019 17:36:11 GMT imagigator said:

Some of the EAR attacks had DNA that was linked to the same guy as ONS. What are the odds that the distinct MO of JJD as EAR would also be used by someone else, down to the lubricating himself before the rapes? I agree that there were other killers and rapists operating at the same time, but I would also say that there are more crimes that JJD is responsible for other than the ones we already know and not less.

My original reply to this post is quite different than my perspective now. What are the odds? I still don't know the answer to that question but I do know now that there was another offender in operation that shared these characteristics, a self-lubricator with Type A blood who fits in quite nicely and is a ringer for the Ripon Ct. shooter sketch.  I cannot ignore what happened when the connection was made in my mind.  I have never experienced anything like that.  I have to ask, Walter, how can you be SO absolute in your perspective, you can neither prove or disprove you stance based on what is available to you yet you hold your opinions like they are some sort of divine revelation that no one is allowed to question.  'One person and only one' yet so many accounts do not support your position. 

[kg]

Feb 10, 2019 1:33:08 GMT deoxyribonucleicacid said:

I'm not saying that the EARONSGSK cases or murders were committed by anyone else but maybe there were some other people lurking around like the Early Bird Rapist

In Northern California... These two EARONSGSK sketches look a lot like Rodney Alcala & Ted Bunny

Rodney Alcala


Ted Bundy...


In the new Netflix documentary on Ted Bundy... There's talk about going to Northern California for a while but didn't like the people or he said they weren't friendly lol. But he's a prime suspect in the Santa Rosa hitchhiker murders and he stated that he killed more than 100 women of which 28 were identified.



Perhaps we could now add Joseph Holt to this list.

[sammyt]

Sept 4, 2019 12:36:56 GMT kg said:

Feb 9, 2019 17:36:11 GMT imagigator said:

Some of the EAR attacks had DNA that was linked to the same guy as ONS. What are the odds that the distinct MO of JJD as EAR would also be used by someone else, down to the lubricating himself before the rapes? I agree that there were other killers and rapists operating at the same time, but I would also say that there are more crimes that JJD is responsible for other than the ones we already know and not less.

My original reply to this post is quite different than my perspective now. What are the odds? I still don't know the answer to that question but I do know now that there was another offender in operation that shared these characteristics, a self-lubricator with Type A blood who fits in quite nicely and is a ringer for the Ripon Ct. shooter sketch.  I cannot ignore what happened when the connection was made in my mind.  I have never experienced anything like that.  I have to ask, Walter, how can you be SO absolute in your perspective, you can neither prove or disprove you stance based on what is available to you yet you hold your opinions like they are some sort of divine revelation that no one is allowed to question.  'One person and only one' yet so many accounts do not support your position. 

The 'case closed/one person only' attitude didn't work out well in cases involving: The London Nightstalker (early accomplice), The Railway Rapist (accomplice identified years after the case was 'closed'), Fred West (at least two accomplices) and Marc Dutroux (numerous accomplices).

The EAR A/B theory is nothing new, and for all we know JJD was copycatting crimes.  As a police science and criminal justice degree graduate, and the head of an anti-burglary unit, he was in a pretty unique position to do so.