Possible Victims: Winans-Williams 5/28/1996

[tosh]

Nov 1, 2022 13:34:19 GMT mustangman said:

Nov 1, 2022 13:14:07 GMT tosh said:

I was looking to see if there were any unsolved murders on or close to the Appalachian Trail and came across the unsolved murder of 52 year old hiker Louise Chaput in New Hampshire in November, 2001. Louise died of multiple stab wounds and incise wounds. Her body was discovered on woodland near a hiking trail on Thanksgiving, November 22nd, 2001. Her car was discovered in a car park a quarter of a mile away. Her car keys, sleeping bag and back pack have never been found and police think the killer may have taken them.

She crossed the US-Canada border at Norton, Vt, at 11:45 a.m, November 15th. A receipt shows she stopped at a gas station in Colebrook at 12:50 p.m. She had a reservation to stay the night at the Appalachian Mountain Club lodge in Pinkham Notch, but she never checked in. She had planned to spend several days hiking in the area. The last person who reported seeing her was an employee at the visitors center, she asked him where she could go for a short hike and he directed her to the Lost Pond Trail.
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When I was looking in to this I also came across the case of Pamela Webb, whose body was discovered in woods an hour away from where Louise Chaput was found. Pamela’s case reminds me of Alicia Showalter Reynolds on Route 29, March, 1996. Pamela Webb, 32, of Winthrop, ME, was reported missing on July 1, 1989. Pamela was on her way to spend the holiday weekend with her boyfriend in Mason, NH, when she disappeared. Her 1981 blue Chevy pickup truck was found on the side of the road in the southbound lane of I-95 in Biddeford, ME. There were signs of a struggle near the truck. Her dog was found unharmed inside the front of the truck. Her skeletal remains were discovered in the woods off Route 3 in Franconia, NH, on July 18, 1989.
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I realise there is not much in the way of obvious similarities between the cases of Louise and Pamela. However, I feel the cases of Julie and Lollie and Alicia Showalter Reynolds could be linked and the separate cases of Louise and Pamela reminded me of them. 

looks like Pamela's truck had a right rear tire flat and as she went to fix it, someone showed up to help then kidnapped her.  

Crime of opportunity? Sadly a state trooper passed her abandoned truck that night and didn’t stop at first - he subsequently lied about when he first saw the truck too.

[mustangman]

Nov 1, 2022 13:53:42 GMT tosh said:

Nov 1, 2022 13:34:19 GMT mustangman said:

looks like Pamela's truck had a right rear tire flat and as she went to fix it, someone showed up to help then kidnapped her.  

Crime of opportunity? Sadly a state trooper passed her abandoned truck that night and didn’t stop at first - he subsequently lied about when he first saw the truck too.

Do we know why the trooper lied about when he 1st saw her truck?  why lie?   He couldve just said he was mistaken about the time, no one wouldve known one way or the other.   

[dickere]

Nov 1, 2022 13:53:42 GMT tosh said:

Nov 1, 2022 13:34:19 GMT mustangman said:

looks like Pamela's truck had a right rear tire flat and as she went to fix it, someone showed up to help then kidnapped her.  

Crime of opportunity? Sadly a state trooper passed her abandoned truck that night and didn’t stop at first - he subsequently lied about when he first saw the truck too.

Israel Keyes seems to be regularly mentioned for Louise Chaput.

[tosh]

Apr 4, 2022 11:26:16 GMT tosh said:

I've posted this in the Route 29 Stalker thread but will also add it here as Julie and Lollie's murders are included.

The Free-Lance Star, September 21st, 2016
1996-97 A Deadly Time in Area

Some 20 years ago, a 14-month period (March 1996 to May 1997) proved to be frighteningly deadly for area women and girls. During that time, three women and three girls were killed in the Fredericksburg region. Two other women were killed in the Shenandoah National Park, and their murders were unofficially linked to at least one of the local slayings.



March 2, 1996: Alicia Showalter Reynolds vanished after pulling off of U.S. 29 in Culpeper. Her skeletal remains were found on May 7, 1996, in a shallow grave at a remote logging camp in the Lignum area. She is believed to have been a victim of the Route 29 stalker, who at the time had reportedly been trying to lure female drivers to pull over under the fake guise of car troubles. The case remains unsolved.



June 1, 1996: Julianne “Julie” Williams, 24, and Laura “Lollie” Winans, 26, were both found slain at their Shenandoah National Park campsite. That case was considered to have a possible link to the Route 29 stalker. A suspect was arrested but the case fell apart and the charges were later dropped. The women's killings remain unsolved.



July 14, 1996: Thelma Scroggins, a 74-year-old retired mail carrier and church organist, was found shot to death in her Lignum home. Two teens were eventually convicted, based in large part on a confession by one, but he later recanted and a federal judge threw out the convictions. The case remains unsolved.



Sept. 9, 1996: Sofia Silva, a 16-year-old Courtland High School student, was abducted from the front steps of her Oak Grove Terrace home. Her body was recovered in King George just more than a month later, on Oct. 14. In 2002, her murder was linked to serial killer Richard Marc Evonitz, who committed suicide as police tried to arrest him for the abduction and rape of a South Carolina teen. Evonitz lived in Spotsylvania in 1996 and '97, but later moved to South Carolina.



Sept. 18, 1996: Anne McDaniel, 20, was reported missing. Her burned and bound body was found four days later near Lignum. Her murder remains unsolved.



May 1, 1997: Sisters Kristin Lisk, 15, and Kati Lisk, 12, were abducted from their Spotsylvania home. Their bodies were found five days later in Hanover County. Authorities determined that they were also killed by Evonitz.

Pickup Trucks/Trucks with Camper Shells - just noticed that pickup trucks and trucks with camper shells have popped up a few times. Wonder if the killer had a preference for this type of vehicle.

July 1996 - On the night Thelma Scroggins was murdered her pickup truck with a camper shell was also stolen. It was found weeks later off Route 3 on State Route 205 in King George County. (Sofia Silva was discovered in October 1996 off Route 3 in King George County.)

April 1997 - There is an attempted abduction of a student at Longwood College, Farmville, Virginia. A man driving a white pickup approached a student outside the college library asking her for directions before pointing a gun at her whilst telling her to get into the car, luckily she escaped.

May 1997 - A witness reported seeing a white pickup truck with a camper shell at the Lisk sisters' home at the time they arrived home from school.

June 1997 - In the town of Louisa a man driving a white Ford Ranger pickup truck repeatedly tries to coax a 15yr old girl in to his truck before she made it to the safety of her mother’s shop. Louisa police passed the information to Spotsylvania detectives investigating the Lisk case and were told the driver was on a list of truck owners they were planning to contact.

July 1997 - There was a very strange post on a tribute board to Julie and Lollie from a poster called "shestalker" asking if anyone had seen an old white pickup in the parking lot of the trail at Shenandoah from May 24th -26th, 1996. That poster also made a reference to similarities between the murders of Julie and Lollie and the 1986 Colonial Parkway murders. 

“Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:00:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail]

I have read the FBI agent's comment that these murders have similarities to the Colonial Parkway murders in 1986, but I have been unable to find out what similarities that would be other than the obvious. I have a suspect that has possible connections to both the murders but my contact with the FBI and the police has not been very useful. Does anyone have more info on the links between those two sets of double murders?
Also, I would like to know if anyone sited in the parking lot or on the trail on May 24th through 26th, a 5'11" black male, age 32, 190 lbs. If it was during the day, he would have been accompanied by a black female, also age 32, 165-175 lbs and possibly an elderly female and a slightly built thirteen year-old boy. He would have been driving a dark blue Honda Civic. If it was in the evening, he would have been driving the same vehicle or an old white Chevy pick-up truck. If anyone has see this man in the area on that weekend,please contact me at my e-mail address.”

I also remember reading a post on this forum about a pickup truck with a camper shell being involved in an accident at Bacon's Castle - does anyone know anything more about that and why it was mentioned in connection to the Colonial Parkway murders?

[billthom56]

Looks like the new FBI team in Richmond has been taking a new look at all of the evidence in the Julie Williams/Lollie Winans case. Nothing like fresh eyes, a different approach and new energy to get a badly stalled case moving forward again.

Here's hoping.

Thanks.



Bill Thomas

[almagata]

Jan 19, 2023 0:30:34 GMT billthom56 said:

Looks like the new FBI team in Richmond has been taking a new look at all of the evidence in the Julie Williams/Lollie Winans case. Nothing like fresh eyes, a different approach and new energy to get a badly stalled case moving forward again.

Here's hoping.

Thanks.



Bill Thomas

I love to hear that new people are assigned to a cold case.  If they saved the evidence from the crime scene, there likely is DNA of the killer on something. 

[tosh]

Jan 19, 2023 0:30:34 GMT billthom56 said:

Looks like the new FBI team in Richmond has been taking a new look at all of the evidence in the Julie Williams/Lollie Winans case. Nothing like fresh eyes, a different approach and new energy to get a badly stalled case moving forward again.

Here's hoping.

Thanks.



Bill Thomas

This is very hopeful, thanks for the update Bill.

[tosh]

Jan 19, 2023 3:47:09 GMT almagata said:

Jan 19, 2023 0:30:34 GMT billthom56 said:

Looks like the new FBI team in Richmond has been taking a new look at all of the evidence in the Julie Williams/Lollie Winans case. Nothing like fresh eyes, a different approach and new energy to get a badly stalled case moving forward again.

Here's hoping.

Thanks.



Bill Thomas

I love to hear that new people are assigned to a cold case.  If they saved the evidence from the crime scene, there likely is DNA of the killer on something. 

I hope so Almagata. There was a vibrator left at the scene which didn’t belong to the girls, a bottle of Mountain Dew and some cigarette remains too, hopefully all the evidence will be retested.

[dickere]

Jan 19, 2023 15:45:40 GMT tosh said:

Jan 19, 2023 3:47:09 GMT almagata said:

I love to hear that new people are assigned to a cold case.  If they saved the evidence from the crime scene, there likely is DNA of the killer on something. 

I I hope so Almagata. There was a vibrator left at the scene which didn’t belong to the girls, a bottle of Mountain Dew and some cigarette remains too, hopefully all the evidence will be retested.

How can anyone know whether a vibrator was theirs ?

[tosh]

Jan 19, 2023 17:52:17 GMT dickere said:

Jan 19, 2023 15:45:40 GMT tosh said:

I I hope so Almagata. There was a vibrator left at the scene which didn’t belong to the girls, a bottle of Mountain Dew and some cigarette remains too, hopefully all the evidence will be retested.

How can anyone know whether a vibrator was theirs ?

Kathryn Miles talks in great detail about the evidence found at the scene in her book Trailed, it’s an excellent read - I highly recommend it and a portion of proceeds from the sales are being donated to an outdoor organisation in memory of Julie and Lollie.

[billthom56]

Jan 20, 2023 10:29:15 GMT tosh said:

Jan 19, 2023 17:52:17 GMT dickere said:

How can anyone know whether a vibrator was theirs ?

Kathryn Miles talks in great detail about the evidence found at the scene in her book Trailed, it’s an excellent read - I highly recommend it and a portion of proceeds from the sales are being donated to an outdoor organisation in memory of Julie and Lollie.

It is a great read, and Trailed actually seems to up for several book awards, in addition to helping move the case of Julie Williams and Lollie Winans forward.

Great work by Kathryn Miles!

Bill Thomas

[almagata]

I just finished reading "Trailed" by Kathryn Miles. For anyone that follows true crime and especially the Colonial Parkway murders, Kathryn Miles has done some excellent research on the case and uncovered some disturbing facts about the investigation that may have kept the Williams/Winan case from being solved. I'll have to hope that investigators who are interested in justice and who are willing to follow the evidence will start making decisions on the case.

[tosh]

Jan 19, 2023 3:47:09 GMT almagata said:

Jan 19, 2023 0:30:34 GMT billthom56 said:

Looks like the new FBI team in Richmond has been taking a new look at all of the evidence in the Julie Williams/Lollie Winans case. Nothing like fresh eyes, a different approach and new energy to get a badly stalled case moving forward again.

Here's hoping.

Thanks.



Bill Thomas

I love to hear that new people are assigned to a cold case.  If they saved the evidence from the crime scene, there likely is DNA of the killer on something. 

I was just listening to a podcast last night in which Kate Miles was interviewed, she said this past Summer a couple of Park Rangers who worked at Shenandoah in 96 had their DNA swabbed. I am not 100% clear if it was the same two rangers who the FBI looked at in 1996, it was very briefly mentioned. Nevertheless, good to hear they are looking at the DNA again. I wish they could compare the cigarette butts left in Shenandoah with those left at the Colonial Parkway too.

[almagata]

Feb 15, 2023 14:17:38 GMT tosh said:

Jan 19, 2023 3:47:09 GMT almagata said:

I love to hear that new people are assigned to a cold case.  If they saved the evidence from the crime scene, there likely is DNA of the killer on something. 

I was just listening to a podcast last night in which Kate Miles was interviewed, she said this past Summer a couple of Park Rangers who worked at Shenandoah in 96 had their DNA swabbed. I am not 100% clear if it was the same two rangers who the FBI looked at in 1996, it was very briefly mentioned. Nevertheless, good to hear they are looking at the DNA again. I wish they could compare the cigarette butts left in Shenandoah with those left at the Colonial Parkway too.

A ranger is high on the suspect list based on the location of the murder.  Kate Miles described the tent location better than I had ever heard before.  The trail the girls were on lead to some cabins used to house rangers and the trail was no longer used by most visitors because the bridal trail had been relocated. 

Who ever killed them likely had to be very familiar with the area. 

DNA will be what solves these murders.

[dickere]

Feb 17, 2023 7:01:20 GMT almagata said:

Feb 15, 2023 14:17:38 GMT tosh said:

I was just listening to a podcast last night in which Kate Miles was interviewed, she said this past Summer a couple of Park Rangers who worked at Shenandoah in 96 had their DNA swabbed. I am not 100% clear if it was the same two rangers who the FBI looked at in 1996, it was very briefly mentioned. Nevertheless, good to hear they are looking at the DNA again. I wish they could compare the cigarette butts left in Shenandoah with those left at the Colonial Parkway too.

A ranger is high on the suspect list based on the location of the murder.  Kate Miles described the tent location better than I had ever heard before.  The trail the girls were on lead to some cabins used to house rangers and the trail was no longer used by most visitors because the bridal trail had been relocated. 

Who ever killed them likely had to be very familiar with the area. 

DNA will be what solves these murders.

This also fits with the idea that their dog was kept somewhere for a few days too.