Does LE Have DNA?

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

Jun 23, 2019 20:50:01 GMT danmiami said:

This case is bizarre for a variety of reasons. You are talking about a double homicide of children in a fairly small Indiana town. If they do have DNA they could probably test most POIs within miles of the crime scene fairly quickly and move on to other suspects, Based on the killer’s motivations it’s also probably a safe bet that DNA was left at the crime scene. It’s disgusting and sick to even fathom the possibilities here but I think you get my point here.

The killer just didn’t wake up that morning and say he was going to kill 2 children. The is a guy that has a past and most likely it’s sex crimes either exposing himself to girls or even molestation. Also he has eluded capture for over 2 years so he is probably fairly intelligent and pretty good at covering his tracks.

There was another double homicide of 2 girls in Iowa so I am curious to know if the cases might be related. Only LE knows the MOs of both killers so whatever they know aren’t talking about it.

Hi Dan,  Yes the town is really small, like 3,000 people.  You'd think somebody would have recognized him from the image captured on Libby's phone, the sketch, the voice.  But then they come out with a new sketch and so people have been looking for the wrong guy for 2 years?  The police are changing so many things they say.  First they said don't pay attention to the first sketch, just the second sketch.... and apparently they come from two different sightings?  Next they say it could be a combination of the two sketches.  Then they say age range 18 to 40.  So is  the image on Libby's phone is so pixilated they really can't tell the age from it?  Or are they taking info from two different witnesses that saw someone in a different location?  

Superintendent Carter says here that they have DNA. www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZrm_FKSxVM  Doug Carter's statement at 1:58 

I guess he forgot he said that because a year later he said he can't release that information.

I'm going to make a guess and say that perhaps the DNA is not a complete profile so might only be able to be used to exclude, wait, nope, can't be...the police make statements that previous poi's are not cleared.  For instance Daniel Nations, they say they are not interested in him, yet they won't say he has been cleared.  They make the same statements about absolutely everybody. So it appears they don't have enough DNA to clear a poi.

Was there a motive?  A vendetta involving drugs and someone in her family?  (A lot of people think that Libby was targeted by Garett Kirts basically because of drugs and his girlfriend or friend going to jail and her kids being taken away. But Kirts was in jail when they had the news conference and Superintendent Carter said  that the killer might be in the room.   Kirts and several cohorts killed and tortured his ex-girlfriend, seems like a totally different situation me.  I don't buy the vendetta theory).

There are other poi's, Thomas Bruce for instance but again he was in jail at the time of the news conference and they have his DNA but podcaster Michael Katt actually has an interesting theory on why they are not charging him and why he is of interest and he makes a compelling case against Bruce, yet...if his theory was correct and LE knows it Bruce but are not charging him till Missouri is done with him where he is charged with several rapes and murders, why would LE release the new sketch that looks nothing like him and state the killer might be in the room while Bruce is in prison in Missouri.  

Jasper Talmdage looks like the new sketch and he has been arrested for murdering his ex-girlfriend's new boyfriend.  Again they have his DNA and he was only 16 or 17 in 2017.  Too young and the motive for killing the boyfriend, and a very different motive for the murder he committed, jealousy.  

Was this supposed to be a sexual assault and the girls made a break for it and so he ended up killing them?

Was this a serial killer roaming that part of the country, researching and finding trails to find victims?  

I am with you, Dan, I suspect that the  Evansdale, Iowa case involving an 8 and 10 year old on a nature trail near a lake in a very small town is connected to the Delphi murders.  LE says they don't think there is a connection, but how can they know that?  Are there other cases of two young girls being kidnapped and murdered while on nature trails in this country or Canada?  I'm wondering if the killer has a route that takes him through various towns, maybe a trucker?

Any opinions?

[relish]

Jun 23, 2019 20:50:01 GMT danmiami said:

The killer just didn’t wake up that morning and say he was going to kill 2 children. The is a guy that has a past and most likely it’s sex crimes either exposing himself to girls or even molestation. 

I won't make any assumptions like that. In fact, my instincts are exactly the opposite. I believe he was a first-timer and perhaps a never-againer.

Most killers do it only once. I'm always amazed at the desperation on true crime boards to link anything and everything, and propose another and another. It is going completely against the grain of raw likelihood. There is great chirping when it comes true. Meanwhile amusing silence among the higher number of examples in which there is nothing indicating the offender committed a similar offense.

The past year of genealogical connection has been extremely interesting because we've had a congested plop of solved true crime cases. Or at least cases in which someone has been identified as the perpetrator, pending trial. It hasn't gained much attention but I've been amazed at the lack of any consistent pattern. Some of the killers were already dead, based on other crimes they had been convicted and jailed for. There have been some suicides when law enforcement drew near. There are other cases with minor criminal record but nothing rising to the same level. And there have been many cases with absolute zilch in the person's record, like the current William Talbott trial in the Seattle area.

It all leads me to believe that detectives and prosecutors have been far overboard in asserting that these guys can't stop, or that based on their case they are sure the offender has committed similar in the past. In that Talbott case the authorities long believed the killer picked up knowledge in jail. Now they are prosecuting a guy with nothing on his record. 

I'm not criticizing them specifically. The fault lies with conventional wisdom period. And the lousy conventional wisdom attaches most dependably to true crime boards, where everyone gathers to read about one atrocity after another while projecting more and more of them to anyone whose name surfaces. 

I think this Delphi killer picked out the specific location, based on unique desirable variables it held in combination: Many places to park and walk, while not standing out. No cameras. Dependable small number of visitors. Victim(s) trapped at the end of the bridge. Easy redirect off the bridge to more secluded areas. 

Once he had the location identified along with the kill spot(s), he waited for opportunity. Just like DeAngelo undoubtedly stormed home in thwarted frustration countless times, I doubt Bridge Guy succeeded the first time. It wasn't perfect so he came back again. Dressed differently but always heavily concealed and always carrying the kill kit. 

I doubt he ever planned on 2 victims. But once the opportunity presented itself he evaluated their age and size, and the overall emptiness of that afternoon, and decided the totality aligned with Go. 

If this is solved I think it will be via DNA link and nothing else. I don't think he'll commit anything similar or serious again. I doubt there's much if anything on his record. That image of himself on the bridge had to be incredibly numbing. Imagine Zodiac watching himself on the nightly news, approaching those first victims at Lake Herman Road. No chance the rest of that series plays out similarly. 

[Deleted]

May 31, 2019 9:42:21 GMT All Growed Up!! said:

> I heard an interview with Becky, the grandmother of Kelsi and Libby, and she believes she knows who killed the girls. He apparently will not step forward or cooperate so that convinces her all the more.

I listened to that same interview. And now I’m wondering if it’s possible LE also believes this is the perp, and the recent sketch is simply a sketch of him, for him and his friends and family to see? That’s why they’re referring to this as their new tactic?

Do you remember when she gave the interview? I never heard that before, I’d like to read or listen to the interview. If you remember the source pleases post. Thanks 

[elir]

re DNA. I typed up the content from from Jensen and Holes: The Murder Squad episode 23 December 2019. The episode featured a number of updates on cases they covered this year. Starting at 55 minutes they are discussing dna in the Delphi case (any transcript errors are mine):

Jensen: Now as far as … from what we’ve heard…we’ve heard differing reports on whether there is dna, whether there is usable dna. What do we know about that?

Holes: Um well shortly after the Gold State Killer case was solved, I did consult with an investigator on this case. He gave me some information, he would not divulge everything about the case, and I cannot harm the investigation with (sharing) the information that he provided me. However. I will basically just say this is a very very difficult case from a physical evidence standpoint.

[V]

Jan 1, 2020 0:54:59 GMT elir said:

re DNA. I typed up the content from from Jensen and Holes: The Murder Squad episode 23 December 2019. The episode featured a number of updates on cases they covered this year. Starting at 55 minutes they are discussing dna in the Delphi case (any transcript errors are mine):

Jensen: Now as far as … from what we’ve heard…we’ve heard differing reports on whether there is dna, whether there is usable dna. What do we know about that?

Holes: Um well shortly after the Gold State Killer case was solved, I did consult with an investigator on this case. He gave me some information, he would not divulge everything about the case, and I cannot harm the investigation with (sharing) the information that he provided me. However. I will basically just say this is a very very difficult case from a physical evidence standpoint.

That has to mean there is no DNA. Ooof. 

[elir]

Jan 2, 2020 13:20:02 GMT V said:

Jan 1, 2020 0:54:59 GMT elir said:

re DNA. I typed up the content from from Jensen and Holes: The Murder Squad episode 23 December 2019. The episode featured a number of updates on cases they covered this year. Starting at 55 minutes they are discussing dna in the Delphi case (any transcript errors are mine):

Jensen: Now as far as … from what we’ve heard…we’ve heard differing reports on whether there is dna, whether there is usable dna. What do we know about that?

Holes: Um well shortly after the Gold State Killer case was solved, I did consult with an investigator on this case. He gave me some information, he would not divulge everything about the case, and I cannot harm the investigation with (sharing) the information that he provided me. However. I will basically just say this is a very very difficult case from a physical evidence standpoint.

That has to mean there is no DNA. Ooof. 

Hard to be sure, but between LE statements  that suggest they have some kind of DNA  and this statement from Holes , someone that definitely knows how to deal with DNA evidence,  it could mean they have touch DNA that isn't linked to anyone in CODIS, either way, it isn't good.