Dont Wild West This

[midevilco]

At the very least, even people who think he isn't the Zodiac will admit there are A LOT of overlaps between the two.

Time + Geography + MO has always been the main argument.

Realize that DeAngelo is a 1%-er, top-top, all time serial killer, burglar and rapist for the record books.

He taunted the police and victims, and got off on being the smartest, scariest, unknown entity he could be for many years.

Laugh all you want about Z being GSK and GSK being Z, and how we are all stupid.

I would have laughed with you BEFORE we knew who DeAngelo / VR / EAR / ONS is, but now that we know just how prolific, how depraved, how capable he was, what is one more nickname, crime spree, and slightly varying MO for this guy, really?

Do you think he wasn’t capable of killing people at age 17, when kids his age are being shipped off to Vietnam to do just that?

His dad was stationed in Napa, (before his dad ran off) and I guarantee he knew Vallejo / Lake Berryessa like the back of his hand, where Zodiac made his REAL first appearance. Lake Pope, anyone?

Right now, the only piece of evidence that rules JJD out of a POTENTIAL Zodiac crime is the fact his ship left about a month before Cheri Jo Bates was killed, but was he actually on board?

Everything else Zodiac related, both proven and suspected, look there he was, or could easily be.

Both were suspected of being ex military, both had bay area / socal connections, both attacked couples, brought pre-tied ropes, shinned flashlights, taunted victims, police, media, etc, and about a hundred over overlaps described here 

earonsgsk.proboards.com/post/190829/thread

At some point, the overlaps becomes signatures.

Find the Paul Stine Exeter connection, and you have the smoking gun.

Is he the Zodiac? Maybe not. Either way, he has raped / killed more people that he is currently being charged for, and hopefully one day the victims of those crimes will find some closure.

Glad this hasn't been banished to the Wild West yet, this whole place is the Wild West if you ask me considering not one person here muttered the name Joseph James DeAngelo before he was caught. 

[sammyt]

Nov 13, 2019 22:55:00 GMT mark said:

Nov 13, 2019 11:21:55 GMT sammyt said:

All but one of the first 8 EAR victims described EAR as between 18 and 25 years old.  JJD was in his 30s.

Age descriptions from witnesses are often inaccurate.

By your own logic, if JJD had become an EAR POI in the late 70s, then he should have immediately been ruled out as EAR...  

I get the point, but we’re not talking about an abstract principle here (that is, witnesses are unreliable). JJD was consistently described as younger than he was. So the mistakes by the victims were consistent with that. Also, it’s rather unlikely that someone would mistake him for an older person. Let’s say that at 24 JJD could be mistaken for a 20-22 years old. How do you take a 20 years old for a 30-40 years old?

Yeah I get what you're saying too, but let's remember the possible EAR 'Custer' essay.
  
General Custer looked 40+ when he was only 25...

[Ranger71]

The physical description of the Z dosen't quite line up with JJD at that time. Z was said to be markedly over 200 lbs, which Deangelo fresh out of the Navy likely was still a slender 160'ish. Hard to see him travelling specifically to those spots like Berryessa and SF at night for the Stine murder. Coming up with the whole black costume and cypher deal too? When would he have had time to learn that stuff, in HS, on the Canberra or right when he got out? The whole thing seems like an extreme longshot.

[midevilco]

Nov 14, 2019 8:39:23 GMT Ranger71 said:

The physical description of the Z dosen't quite line up with JJD at that time. Z was said to be markedly over 200 lbs, which Deangelo fresh out of the Navy likely was still a slender 160'ish. Hard to see him travelling specifically to those spots like Berryessa and SF at night for the Stine murder. Coming up with the whole black costume and cypher deal too? When would he have had time to learn that stuff, in HS, on the Canberra or right when he got out? The whole thing seems like an extreme longshot.

Hard to see him traveling to a place he would literally drive right past, on his way to burglarize and rape in Concord, Walnut Creek, Danville, etc? I’m sure he had plenty of time at sea and in the 15 months between when he got back and the first confirmed Zodiac kill to plan.

Z didn’t even truly announce himself until he was a few kills in.

[sammyt]

JJD isn't a top zodiac suspect for me... but I would like to see something concrete to rule him out.

Ruling him out because of age descriptions/physical descriptions is ridiculous IMO.

Have we learned nothing from the 'EAR was too slim to be the VR' and the 'EAR had to be a teenager because many of the witness thought so' sagas?

[cleopatra]

Nov 14, 2019 12:18:56 GMT sammyt said:

JJD isn't a top zodiac suspect for me... but I would like to see something concrete to rule him out.

Ruling him out because of age descriptions/physical descriptions is ridiculous IMO.

Have we learned nothing from the 'EAR was too slim to be the VR' and the 'EAR had to be a teenager because many of the witness thought so' sagas?

... and that it was unlikely that the EAR was also the ONS and the VR?

[cleopatra]

Nov 14, 2019 12:18:56 GMT sammyt said:

JJD isn't a top zodiac suspect for me... but I would like to see something concrete to rule him out.

Ruling him out because of age descriptions/physical descriptions is ridiculous IMO.

Have we learned nothing from the 'EAR was too slim to be the VR' and the 'EAR had to be a teenager because many of the witness thought so' sagas?

... and that it was unlikely that the EAR was also the ONS and the VR?

[cleopatra]

Nov 14, 2019 6:34:54 GMT midevilco said:

At the very least, even people who think he isn't the Zodiac will admit there are A LOT of overlaps between the two.

Time + Geography + MO has always been the main argument.

Realize that DeAngelo is a 1%-er, top-top, all time serial killer, burglar and rapist for the record books.

He taunted the police and victims, and got off on being the smartest, scariest, unknown entity he could be for many years.

Laugh all you want about Z being GSK and GSK being Z, and how we are all stupid.

I would have laughed with you BEFORE we knew who DeAngelo / VR / EAR / ONS is, but now that we know just how prolific, how depraved, how capable he was, what is one more nickname, crime spree, and slightly varying MO for this guy, really?

Do you think he wasn’t capable of killing people at age 17, when kids his age are being shipped off to Vietnam to do just that?

His dad was stationed in Napa, (before his dad ran off) and I guarantee he knew Vallejo / Lake Berryessa like the back of his hand, where Zodiac made his REAL first appearance. Lake Pope, anyone?

Right now, the only piece of evidence that rules JJD out of a POTENTIAL Zodiac crime is the fact his ship left about a month before Cheri Jo Bates was killed, but was he actually on board?

Everything else Zodiac related, both proven and suspected, look there he was, or could easily be.

Both were suspected of being ex military, both had bay area / socal connections, both attacked couples, brought pre-tied ropes, shinned flashlights, taunted victims, police, media, etc, and about a hundred over overlaps described here 

earonsgsk.proboards.com/post/190829/thread

At some point, the overlaps becomes signatures.

Find the Paul Stine Exeter connection, and you have the smoking gun.

Is he the Zodiac? Maybe not. Either way, he has raped / killed more people that he is currently being charged for, and hopefully one day the victims of those crimes will find some closure.

Glad this hasn't been banished to the Wild West yet, this whole place is the Wild West if you ask me considering not one person here muttered the name Joseph James DeAngelo before he was caught. 

I am one of those people who don’t think JJD is the Zodiac yet agree there are a lot of overlaps.  Despite the overlaps and similarities, I still see two distinct styles.

IMO the Zodiac wouldn’t have resisted taking at least some responsibility for some of the ONS murders. 

[pod]

Cleo,

I agree. One seems to have had a fixation on being a comic-book arch villain, driven to dressing up in a ridiculous costume and to blabber about his immature fantasies ad nauseum. The other seems to have been a more feral animal with good training. It's not proof of course, but I find it hard to connect the dots. The difficulty in finding proof via a timeline is that Zodiac only had four official crimes.

[jacob93]

Nov 14, 2019 19:58:41 GMT pod said:

Cleo,

I agree. One seems to have had a fixation on being a comic-book arch villain, driven to dressing up in a ridiculous costume and to blabber about his immature fantasies ad nauseum. The other seems to have been a more feral animal with good training. It's not proof of course, but I find it hard to connect the dots. The difficulty in finding proof via a timeline is that Zodiac only had four official crimes.

Did JJD do any cryptography training or have any interest in cryptography? As a boy did he read Tim Holt comics? Was he a fan of The Mikado or other Gilbert & Sullivan operas? Was he a fan of The Exorcist or The Most Dangerous Game?

These are all extremely important identifiers of Zodiac that would seamlessly blueprint onto the life of a credible POI.

[Deleted]

Nov 14, 2019 23:16:34 GMT jacob93 said:

Nov 14, 2019 19:58:41 GMT pod said:

Cleo,

I agree. One seems to have had a fixation on being a comic-book arch villain, driven to dressing up in a ridiculous costume and to blabber about his immature fantasies ad nauseum. The other seems to have been a more feral animal with good training. It's not proof of course, but I find it hard to connect the dots. The difficulty in finding proof via a timeline is that Zodiac only had four official crimes.

Did JJD do any cryptography training or have any interest in cryptography? As a boy did he read Tim Holt comics? Was he a fan of The Mikado or other Gilbert & Sullivan operas? Was he a fan of The Exorcist or The Most Dangerous Game?

These are all extremely important identifiers of Zodiac that would seamlessly blueprint onto the life of a credible POI.

I wonder.

[pod]

Nov 14, 2019 23:16:34 GMT jacob93 said:

Nov 14, 2019 19:58:41 GMT pod said:

Did JJD do any cryptography training or have any interest in cryptography? As a boy did he read Tim Holt comics? Was he a fan of The Mikado or other Gilbert & Sullivan operas? Was he a fan of The Exorcist or The Most Dangerous Game?

These are all extremely important identifiers of Zodiac that would seamlessly blueprint onto the life of a credible POI.

I suppose people close to him could answer some of those questions. Gilbert and Sullivan and The Doors seem as far apart on the music spectrum as you can get, but mybe he was more eclectic than most. Funny thing, I just watched a colourised version of Dangerous Game. Count Zaroff's performance is pretty camp, much like Zodiac's posturing.

[Deleted]

Nov 15, 2019 1:04:05 GMT pod said:

Nov 14, 2019 23:16:34 GMT jacob93 said:

Did JJD do any cryptography training or have any interest in cryptography? As a boy did he read Tim Holt comics? Was he a fan of The Mikado or other Gilbert & Sullivan operas? Was he a fan of The Exorcist or The Most Dangerous Game?

These are all extremely important identifiers of Zodiac that would seamlessly blueprint onto the life of a credible POI.

I suppose people close to him could answer some of those questions. Gilbert and Sullivan and The Doors seem as far apart on the music spectum as you can get, but mybe he was more eclectic than most. Funny thing, I just watched a colourised version of Dangerous Game. Count Zaroff's performance is pretty camp, much like Zodiac's posturing.

Gilbert and Sullivan and the Doors do not seem that far apart to me.Fine, it wasn’t him. I still wonder how he got so good at killing and gunfighting.

[kg]

Find THE EAR and you will find The Zodiac.

[Deleted]

Nov 15, 2019 1:20:29 GMT kg said:

Find THE EAR and you will find The Zodiac.

[brMy house was VR’d. A few months later, right behind my house, I encountered JJD. Several months after that, I saw him again — behaving very EAR like.I’ve never encountered Kevin Coe.