Post by Agent99 aka Sandia on Dec 19, 2019 20:29:32 GMT
There are some really compelling things to make it a real possibility. But first let me mention the two things that to me stand out as making it not a possibility:
The Zodiac was not a sexual killer, DeAngelo was a rapist/murderer.
The printing on DeAngelo's police reports do not look like the printing of the Zodiac to me.
However, the 12-26-75 podcasters have come up with some really fascinating facts. Back in Episode 23 about 1/2 way through they start discussing the Zodiac and the similarities. However, they seem to have a different take. They don't seem to think DeAngelo was the Zodiac but that he was doing things to make LE think the Zodiac was active again. Perhaps for the purpose of throwing out red herrings.
Some of the similarities that stood out to me:
First and foremost the writing of the Zodiac compared to the poem written by the East Area Rapist/DeAngelo "Excitement's Crave"
"Zodiac: "Hey, you actors, this is your lucky break. Remember whoever plays me has his work cut out for him. See you in the news."
Excitement's Crave/DeAngelo: "Sacramento should make an offer to make a movie of my life that will pay for my planned exile. Your East Area Rapist and deserving pest. See you in the press or on TV."
Note: The Zodiac letter including the above quote was sent 5 months AFTER "Excitement's Crave" BUT "Excitement's Crave' was not released to the public till many years later. The Zodiac could not have copied it or known about it. So did DeAngelo send the Zodiac letter pretending to be the Zodiac?
Both taunted the cops, sent letters to the press and the police.
Both used precut clothes lines as ligatures.
Both had the female tie up the male.
Both told the victims not to worry he was not going to hurt them, just rob them., that is until he had them tied up.
Both walked away from the crime scene calmly. In particular after EAR #3 on Malaga, he walked away calmly while nude from the waist down.
The Zodiac walked away from the Paul Stein murder calmly.
The description of the VR and his gait is similar to a description of the gait of the Zodiac below.
Both used homemade masks. The EAR didn't just use ski masks, he made masks of cloth/burlap etc.
One small thing that I've never heard anyone mention is that DeAngelo said in one EAR case "I shall eat some cheese". that always struck me as odd. I notice the Zodiac used "shall" a lot.
Paul Stein was born in Exeter but he grew up in Modesto. I think the Exeter connection is just one of those coincidences.
The Zodiac told victims: (Paraphrasing in some of this.) "I’m on my way to Mexico". " escaped from Deer Lodge Prison in Montana." "I killed a couple of men before (guards at Deer Lodge Prison) and I’m not afraid to kill again."
DeAngelo said.
"I killed some people in Bakersfield"
But, would he go from being the Zodiac killer in 1968 to just a ransacker in Visalia to a rapist in Sacramento and the East Bay of San Francisco?
Yet, I think he killed Eva Taylor in April 1974. Did he kill Jennifer Armour in Visalia/Exeter in November 1974. Did he kill Donna Jo Richmond in Exeter in December 1975. Were these sex crimes?
The "confirmed" Zodiac crimes were in 1968 and 1969 when DeAngelo was 23 and 24 years old.
DeAngelo was discharged from the navy on Treasure Island in the SF Bay. in 1968 but what month?
12/20/68 Faraday/Jensen in Benecia (DeAngelo was 23. Was he still on the Piedmont?)
The following 3 confirmed attacks DeAngelo was enrolled in Sierra College but doesn’t mean he didn’t travel. We know he travelled for his crimes.
7/4/69 Magineau/Ferrin at Blue Rock Springs, Vallejo
9/27/69 Hartnell/Shepherd, Lake Berryessa, Napa.
10/11/69 Paul Stein, Presidio Heights, San Francisco.
Descriptions: Magineau described the Zodiac as
26 to 30 years old = fits
195 to 200 lbs. (Doesn’t fit picture of him in the navy or with Bonnie in Sierra College but does fit picture of him with her family and at her 19th birthday.)
5’8” = shorter than DeAngelo but personally I think height is not so reliable.
Short light brown curly hair = fits.
Other survivor and eyewitness descriptions:
"WMA, short, possible 5’8”, was real heavy set, beefy build... not blubbery fat, but real beefy, possibly 195 to 200 [lbs] or maybe even larger... short curly hair, light brown almost blond... with a large face.”
“White Male Adult, in his early forties, 5'8", heavy build, reddish-blond ‘crew cut’ hair, wearing eyeglasses, dark brown trousers, dark (navy blue or black) ‘Parka' jacket, dark shoes.” This description was subsequently adjusted for the SFPD composite sketch which published this description: WMA 35-45 years old, 5'8" Reddish brown hair, Crewcut, Heavy Rim Glasses, Navy blue or black jacket.
“The suspect that was observed by officer Fouke was a WMA 35-45 Yrs about five-foot, ten inches, 180-200 pounds. Medium heavy build- Barrel chested- Medium complexion- Light-colored hair possibly greying in rear (May have been lighting that caused this effect.) Crew cut- wearing glasses- Dressed in dark blue waist length zipper type jacket (Navy or royal blue) Elastic cuffs and waist band zipped part way up. Brown wool pants pleated type baggy in rear (Rust brown) May have been wearing low cut shoes. Subject at no time appeared to be in a hurry walking with a shuffling lope, Slightly bent forward. The subject’s general appearance- Welsh ancestry.”
“The individual I saw that night was a white male adult, approximately 35-45 years of age, five feet ten inches tall, 180-210 pounds."
White male, between 28-30 years of age, with dark hair that was parted on the left side, at least six feet tall, stocky build, approx. 200 to 225 lbs., with a round face, rounded eyes, thin lips, a medium nose, straight eyebrows and small ears. The girls also said that the man was “nice looking,” wearing dark pants and a dark, short-sleeved sweater shirt over an untucked white undershirt. The man had “medium color skin,” and was not wearing glasses.
Refined Zodiac Suspect Description:
Approximately 5' 8" to 5' 10" in height
Curly brown or light reddish brown hair worn in a crew cut.
Wearing horn rimmed eyeglasses and usually dark clothing, wool trousers and dark navy blue or black windbreaker jacket with distinctive military chukka boots known as a "Wing walkers".
Medium or slightly stocky build
One survivor describes the Zodiac as having an odd gait; that is, he had a peculiar, lumbering or heavy walk.
Bootprints found on the Hartnell-Shepherd crime scene were size 10½ and the gloves in Stine's cab were size 7.
Survivor Bryan Hartnell describes the Zodiac's voice as "Slow and measured" and having a unique sound and cadence with a monotone.
Questions: Do they have fingerprints of the Zodiac? Was DeAngelo the Zodiac or was he copying the Zodiac for the purpose of red herrings?
I'm not including any info on "suspected" Zodiac murders.
How I hope it could be true that he was both and to have two major mysteries/crimes solved.
The Zodiac was not a sexual killer, DeAngelo was a rapist/murderer.
The printing on DeAngelo's police reports do not look like the printing of the Zodiac to me.
However, the 12-26-75 podcasters have come up with some really fascinating facts. Back in Episode 23 about 1/2 way through they start discussing the Zodiac and the similarities. However, they seem to have a different take. They don't seem to think DeAngelo was the Zodiac but that he was doing things to make LE think the Zodiac was active again. Perhaps for the purpose of throwing out red herrings.
Some of the similarities that stood out to me:
First and foremost the writing of the Zodiac compared to the poem written by the East Area Rapist/DeAngelo "Excitement's Crave"
"Zodiac: "Hey, you actors, this is your lucky break. Remember whoever plays me has his work cut out for him. See you in the news."
Excitement's Crave/DeAngelo: "Sacramento should make an offer to make a movie of my life that will pay for my planned exile. Your East Area Rapist and deserving pest. See you in the press or on TV."
Note: The Zodiac letter including the above quote was sent 5 months AFTER "Excitement's Crave" BUT "Excitement's Crave' was not released to the public till many years later. The Zodiac could not have copied it or known about it. So did DeAngelo send the Zodiac letter pretending to be the Zodiac?
Both taunted the cops, sent letters to the press and the police.
Both used precut clothes lines as ligatures.
Both had the female tie up the male.
Both told the victims not to worry he was not going to hurt them, just rob them., that is until he had them tied up.
Both walked away from the crime scene calmly. In particular after EAR #3 on Malaga, he walked away calmly while nude from the waist down.
The Zodiac walked away from the Paul Stein murder calmly.
The description of the VR and his gait is similar to a description of the gait of the Zodiac below.
Both used homemade masks. The EAR didn't just use ski masks, he made masks of cloth/burlap etc.
One small thing that I've never heard anyone mention is that DeAngelo said in one EAR case "I shall eat some cheese". that always struck me as odd. I notice the Zodiac used "shall" a lot.
Paul Stein was born in Exeter but he grew up in Modesto. I think the Exeter connection is just one of those coincidences.
The Zodiac told victims: (Paraphrasing in some of this.) "I’m on my way to Mexico". " escaped from Deer Lodge Prison in Montana." "I killed a couple of men before (guards at Deer Lodge Prison) and I’m not afraid to kill again."
DeAngelo said.
"I killed some people in Bakersfield"
But, would he go from being the Zodiac killer in 1968 to just a ransacker in Visalia to a rapist in Sacramento and the East Bay of San Francisco?
Yet, I think he killed Eva Taylor in April 1974. Did he kill Jennifer Armour in Visalia/Exeter in November 1974. Did he kill Donna Jo Richmond in Exeter in December 1975. Were these sex crimes?
The "confirmed" Zodiac crimes were in 1968 and 1969 when DeAngelo was 23 and 24 years old.
DeAngelo was discharged from the navy on Treasure Island in the SF Bay. in 1968 but what month?
12/20/68 Faraday/Jensen in Benecia (DeAngelo was 23. Was he still on the Piedmont?)
The following 3 confirmed attacks DeAngelo was enrolled in Sierra College but doesn’t mean he didn’t travel. We know he travelled for his crimes.
7/4/69 Magineau/Ferrin at Blue Rock Springs, Vallejo
9/27/69 Hartnell/Shepherd, Lake Berryessa, Napa.
10/11/69 Paul Stein, Presidio Heights, San Francisco.
Descriptions: Magineau described the Zodiac as
26 to 30 years old = fits
195 to 200 lbs. (Doesn’t fit picture of him in the navy or with Bonnie in Sierra College but does fit picture of him with her family and at her 19th birthday.)
5’8” = shorter than DeAngelo but personally I think height is not so reliable.
Short light brown curly hair = fits.
Other survivor and eyewitness descriptions:
"WMA, short, possible 5’8”, was real heavy set, beefy build... not blubbery fat, but real beefy, possibly 195 to 200 [lbs] or maybe even larger... short curly hair, light brown almost blond... with a large face.”
“White Male Adult, in his early forties, 5'8", heavy build, reddish-blond ‘crew cut’ hair, wearing eyeglasses, dark brown trousers, dark (navy blue or black) ‘Parka' jacket, dark shoes.” This description was subsequently adjusted for the SFPD composite sketch which published this description: WMA 35-45 years old, 5'8" Reddish brown hair, Crewcut, Heavy Rim Glasses, Navy blue or black jacket.
“The suspect that was observed by officer Fouke was a WMA 35-45 Yrs about five-foot, ten inches, 180-200 pounds. Medium heavy build- Barrel chested- Medium complexion- Light-colored hair possibly greying in rear (May have been lighting that caused this effect.) Crew cut- wearing glasses- Dressed in dark blue waist length zipper type jacket (Navy or royal blue) Elastic cuffs and waist band zipped part way up. Brown wool pants pleated type baggy in rear (Rust brown) May have been wearing low cut shoes. Subject at no time appeared to be in a hurry walking with a shuffling lope, Slightly bent forward. The subject’s general appearance- Welsh ancestry.”
“The individual I saw that night was a white male adult, approximately 35-45 years of age, five feet ten inches tall, 180-210 pounds."
White male, between 28-30 years of age, with dark hair that was parted on the left side, at least six feet tall, stocky build, approx. 200 to 225 lbs., with a round face, rounded eyes, thin lips, a medium nose, straight eyebrows and small ears. The girls also said that the man was “nice looking,” wearing dark pants and a dark, short-sleeved sweater shirt over an untucked white undershirt. The man had “medium color skin,” and was not wearing glasses.
Refined Zodiac Suspect Description:
Approximately 5' 8" to 5' 10" in height
Curly brown or light reddish brown hair worn in a crew cut.
Wearing horn rimmed eyeglasses and usually dark clothing, wool trousers and dark navy blue or black windbreaker jacket with distinctive military chukka boots known as a "Wing walkers".
Medium or slightly stocky build
One survivor describes the Zodiac as having an odd gait; that is, he had a peculiar, lumbering or heavy walk.
Bootprints found on the Hartnell-Shepherd crime scene were size 10½ and the gloves in Stine's cab were size 7.
Survivor Bryan Hartnell describes the Zodiac's voice as "Slow and measured" and having a unique sound and cadence with a monotone.
Questions: Do they have fingerprints of the Zodiac? Was DeAngelo the Zodiac or was he copying the Zodiac for the purpose of red herrings?
I'm not including any info on "suspected" Zodiac murders.
How I hope it could be true that he was both and to have two major mysteries/crimes solved.
