McGowan Notes on VR

[elir]

Aug 24, 2020 12:37:12 GMT eastcoast2 said:

Aug 24, 2020 7:23:41 GMT zforce said:

In Shelby’s book he mentions that VPD had developed a criminal profile of their suspect that had him living outside of town and riding a bike to and from a place of employment located in town. How the profiler came up with this and how McGowen locked in on Exeter based on that info are a complete mystery.

Something about VR’s behavior during their encounter clearly left the impression that the guy had some kind of LE training.

McGowen would actually speak to cadets following the incident, because tactically the way he held his flashlight was protocol and a great example of how not to get killed in the line of duty, but he also went to scope out incoming recruits just in the event his guy was one of them.

He would also later work the Visalia stalker cases of the 1980’s, and in at least one home set an elaborate indoor alarm system as part of a stakeout - which the suspect tripped before fleeing down a ditch behind the home, and before LE stormed in. His personal notes only bolster my belief that he also suspected the 80s stalker to be VR.

Still the biggest mystery in regards to McGowen is how he came to suspect a cop from Exeter, and then how the dots weren’t connected to JJD....particularly being that he was convinced EAR was VR. His personal notes are clearly circling the wagon, and it seems a meeting with anyone at Exeter PD about his suspicions would have alarm bells going off on JJD.

If I remember correctly, when McGowan went to Sacramento to make his case that their EAR was his VR, he was basically blown off. Maybe because they didn't believe him, maybe because they didn't want to be bothered by a "small" town cop. Assuming he did speak to the folks in the Exeter PD, maybe he got a similar treatment. I can't but help believe that whenever the subject was raised that the VR EAR ONS was a cop, there were people in authority that told their subordinates to bury it. Not necessarily because they didn't want him caught but because of the potential embarrassment. I am sure of it. Having spent a career in positions of authority, I know this is how things work. Its all about damage control. I would not be shocked if along the way, Joe's name was put on a list, and then buried. Its like the bad family secret. 

Seems like for each series there was at least one cop that had good insight into the patterns
VR possible member of LE
EAR=VR
ONS=EAR
And were ignored or dismissed by those in power.
So many missed opportunities

[zforce]

Aug 24, 2020 12:37:12 GMT eastcoast2 said:

Aug 24, 2020 7:23:41 GMT zforce said:

In Shelby’s book he mentions that VPD had developed a criminal profile of their suspect that had him living outside of town and riding a bike to and from a place of employment located in town. How the profiler came up with this and how McGowen locked in on Exeter based on that info are a complete mystery.

Something about VR’s behavior during their encounter clearly left the impression that the guy had some kind of LE training.

McGowen would actually speak to cadets following the incident, because tactically the way he held his flashlight was protocol and a great example of how not to get killed in the line of duty, but he also went to scope out incoming recruits just in the event his guy was one of them.

He would also later work the Visalia stalker cases of the 1980’s, and in at least one home set an elaborate indoor alarm system as part of a stakeout - which the suspect tripped before fleeing down a ditch behind the home, and before LE stormed in. His personal notes only bolster my belief that he also suspected the 80s stalker to be VR.

Still the biggest mystery in regards to McGowen is how he came to suspect a cop from Exeter, and then how the dots weren’t connected to JJD....particularly being that he was convinced EAR was VR. His personal notes are clearly circling the wagon, and it seems a meeting with anyone at Exeter PD about his suspicions would have alarm bells going off on JJD.

If I remember correctly, when McGowan went to Sacramento to make his case that their EAR was his VR, he was basically blown off. Maybe because they didn't believe him, maybe because they didn't want to be bothered by a "small" town cop. Assuming he did speak to the folks in the Exeter PD, maybe he got a similar treatment. I can't but help believe that whenever the subject was raised that the VR EAR ONS was a cop, there were people in authority that told their subordinates to bury it. Not necessarily because they didn't want him caught but because of the potential embarrassment. I am sure of it. Having spent a career in positions of authority, I know this is how things work. Its all about damage control. I would not be shocked if along the way, Joe's name was put on a list, and then buried. Its like the bad family secret. 

According to his partner John Vaughn, the official line as to why Sac blew them off is they didn’t want to create hysteria over their suspect being a murderer if it wasn’t conclusive. The differing suspect descriptions actually created a lot of doubt right up until JJD was caught. If McGowen had ever seen a picture of JJD everything would have been over.

Which brings us back around to the oddity of the VPD profile saying the killer lived 10 miles outside of town and then McGowen looking for cops in Exeter. Something had to have pushed him in that direction, so I wonder if it came via a tip, but if that were the case it would seem the tipster would be able to directly identify JJD.

[zebra]

Just spitballing here, but maybe it was based on perpetrator's apparent ability to intercept police radio traffic. I'm not sure what the range is, but I assume it is limited. So if they believed the perp was LE and they'd eliminated Visalia cops, then maybe they just moved on to the closest town with its own department.

Second possibility is that if they were convinced the guy was riding a bike to the scene, then again, it would make more sense to look at closer towns.

[zforce]

Aug 30, 2020 22:59:18 GMT zebra said:

Just spitballing here, but maybe it was based on perpetrator's apparent ability to intercept police radio traffic. I'm not sure what the range is, but I assume it is limited. So if they believed the perp was LE and they'd eliminated Visalia cops, then maybe they just moved on to the closest town with its own department.

Second possibility is that if they were convinced the guy was riding a bike to the scene, then again, it would make more sense to look at closer towns.

This is a good point. If VPD went radio silent on the night of the McGowen shooting then not only would it bolster his suspicion that VR was a cop, but he would also know it wasn’t one of them.

As far as neighboring departments go though....you have both TCSO and CHP headquartered in Visalia and the cities of Tulare and Farmersville as immediate outside neighbors before you would get to Exeter.

The VPD profiler came up with his theory independent of McGowen’s cop suspicions, which is why they initially went up to Sac in the first place to talk to a guy who fit the bill. McGowen specifically wanting to look at the 1971 Exeter police yearbook is too specific of a note to be a coincidence, in my opinion. It’s possible he got tipped about another cop being a suspect.

And also the VPD profiler saying the guy commuted by bike from 10 miles outside of town.....what data was he/she using to come up with that?

[mystalkeriscaged]

Sept 1, 2020 7:11:45 GMT zforce said:

Aug 30, 2020 22:59:18 GMT zebra said:

Just spitballing here, but maybe it was based on perpetrator's apparent ability to intercept police radio traffic. I'm not sure what the range is, but I assume it is limited. So if they believed the perp was LE and they'd eliminated Visalia cops, then maybe they just moved on to the closest town with its own department.

Second possibility is that if they were convinced the guy was riding a bike to the scene, then again, it would make more sense to look at closer towns.

This is a good point. If VPD went radio silent on the night of the McGowen shooting then not only would it bolster his suspicion that VR was a cop, but he would also know it wasn’t one of them.

As far as neighboring departments go though....you have both TCSO and CHP headquartered in Visalia and the cities of Tulare and Farmersville as immediate outside neighbors before you would get to Exeter.

The VPD profiler came up with his theory independent of McGowen’s cop suspicions, which is why they initially went up to Sac in the first place to talk to a guy who fit the bill. McGowen specifically wanting to look at the 1971 Exeter police yearbook is too specific of a note to be a coincidence, in my opinion. It’s possible he got tipped about another cop being a suspect.

And also the VPD profiler saying the guy commuted by bike from 10 miles outside of town.....what data was he/she using to come up with that?

[mystalkeriscaged]

Sept 3, 2020 20:03:56 GMT mystalkeriscaged said:

Sept 1, 2020 7:11:45 GMT zforce said:

This is a good point. If VPD went radio silent on the night of the McGowen shooting then not only would it bolster his suspicion that VR was a cop, but he would also know it wasn’t one of them.

As far as neighboring departments go though....you have both TCSO and CHP headquartered in Visalia and the cities of Tulare and Farmersville as immediate outside neighbors before you would get to Exeter.

The VPD profiler came up with his theory independent of McGowen’s cop suspicions, which is why they initially went up to Sac in the first place to talk to a guy who fit the bill. McGowen specifically wanting to look at the 1971 Exeter police yearbook is too specific of a note to be a coincidence, in my opinion. It’s possible he got tipped about another cop being a suspect.

And also the VPD profiler saying the guy commuted by bike from 10 miles outside of town.....what data was he/she using to come up with that?

[mystalkeriscaged]

At one time Exeter PD was located next to our courthouse ( now a museum / antique shop )
The main dispatched was located inside Exeter PD , you may want to look into when that changed . My oldest foster sister dispatched at Exeter PD while attending COS in 1978-79 .

We also had several officers that worked for other LE agencies ( CHP & TCSO ) living in Exeter , I don't remember VPD officers during that timeframe . I went to school with their children and remember seeing their patrol cars in Exeter .

[zforce]

Sept 3, 2020 20:32:09 GMT mystalkeriscaged said:

At one time Exeter PD was located next to our courthouse ( now a museum / antique shop )
The main dispatched was located inside Exeter PD , you may want to look into when that changed . My oldest foster sister dispatched at Exeter PD while attending COS in 1978-79 .

We also had several officers that worked for other LE agencies ( CHP & TCSO ) living in Exeter , I don't remember VPD officers during that timeframe . I went to school with their children and remember seeing their patrol cars in Exeter .

My general feeling is that after McGowen was shot at he not only recognized the suspect as a cop tactically, but also felt he’d seen or worked with him before. He possibly thought he had encountered him on a case he worked with Exeter PD in 1971, hence why he wanted to see the police yearbook from that year.

Since JJD first arrived in early 1973 it’s possible McGowen met him around then and just had the years mixed up, or the meeting was so incidental he had the years and the situation of the encounter confused.

This all being said, it still doesn’t explain why or how the VPD profiler came to the conclusion that the suspect was commuting from some distance outside of town nor does it exclude the possibility that someone tipped McGowen to a cop in Exeter.

[mystalkeriscaged]

I get what you're saying . During the timeframe of VR series , traveling to Visalia from Exeter locals took Marinette that turns into Walnut . This would drop you into heavily hit neighborhood in Visalia . That side of town was also fast food location due to proximity to COS . Mearle's diner was remenisante to American Grafitti hang out . Classic cars would cruise Mooney Blvd . Exeter didn't have fast food or even traffic lights as they do now , we had one blinking light in the center of town . Exeter was only 2.46 square miles so that area would be easy to bike to and from as suggested . Cycling the distance of Exeter to Visalia although fairly close , would be unlikely as it was narrow farm road with heavy traffic .

McGowen by far had the best phyical discription of JJD . I'm unaware of VPD profiler . I posted to possibility the dispatch ( Exeter PD ) may have played a factor in an easy escape when officers were called to location . It's worth looking into on who Exeter PD dispatched for during VR series . I was under the impression that they received and dispatched or transferred calls back to other agencies .

[pod]

Sept 4, 2020 18:14:20 GMT mystalkeriscaged said:

I get what you're saying . During the timeframe of VR series , traveling to Visalia from Exeter locals took Marinette that turns into Walnut . This would drop you into heavily hit neighborhood in Visalia . That side of town was also fast food location due to proximity to COS . Mearle's diner was remenisante to American Grafitti hang out . Classic cars would cruise Mooney Blvd . Exeter didn't have fast food or even traffic lights as they do now , we had one blinking light in the center of town . Exeter was only 2.46 square miles so that area would be easy to bike to and from as suggested . Cycling the distance of Exeter to Visalia although fairly close , would be unlikely as it was narrow farm road with heavy traffic .

McGowen by far had the best phyical discription of JJD . I'm unaware of VPD profiler . I posted to possibility the dispatch ( Exeter PD ) may have played a factor in an easy escape when officers were called to location . It's worth looking into on who Exeter PD dispatched for during VR series . I was under the impression that they received and dispatched or transferred calls back to other agencies .

It's always great to get info from a local.

When you say "who Exeter PD dispatched for during the VR series," can you clarify what that means? Do you mean the Exeter PD dispatcher may have also been the dispatcher for VPD? I'm ignorant of how police business works. I expect you know already, but McGowen was pretty certain the offender used a police scanner.

You also mentioned the common route from Exeter to Visalia. After the McGowen shooting, DeAngelo took a route on foot to escape. Initially he went west  a couple of blocks before heading north and doubling back. (Behaviour similar in principle to his escape after the Maggiore murders.) He then ended up alongside the 198. Some speculate he had a car parked in the church grounds at that location. If so, on a present day map, it looks fairly easy to slip onto the 198 from there. Does that seem logical to you?

Edit. I said DeAngelo headed east making his escape from the McGowen shooting. That should read WEST.

[mystalkeriscaged]

I agree that there was likely a police scanner used . I know in our break-ins he easily escaped before LE arrived . I later learned that he would hide on roof tops while waiting for LE to clear the location . I had LE check our attic after finding our items left in our crawlspace , dishes , spoons and our family pictures .

Visalia 198 runs parallel to Walnut that I had mentioned earlier . It wouldn't surprise me that he would have chosen that location to escape . 198 was 4 lane freeway , exit in Farmersville and Exeter where it turned back into hwy . I would only assume he would have chosen Walnut , an easier path to escape or hide in as there are orchards and ditches that he favored during attacks .

Clarification on dispatch : Yes , I believe Exeter PD dispatched for other agencies , I'm not sure when that changed or who they assisted . I know my foster sister worked there and mentioned how busy the phones were . If I were to guess , Exeter , Farmersville and some of TCSO and CHP transfer calls to our resident CHP working hwy 65 & 198 area .

[larcenywhipsnake]

Would McGowan have been at the Exeter cop's funeral? Maybe he almost remembered one of the pall bearers

[elir]

Sept 6, 2020 3:18:57 GMT larcenywhipsnake said:

Would McGowan have been at the Exeter cop's funeral? Maybe he almost remembered one of the pall bearers

One would think most cops from the area would have been there.

[zforce]

Sept 4, 2020 18:40:28 GMT pod said:

Sept 4, 2020 18:14:20 GMT mystalkeriscaged said:

I get what you're saying . During the timeframe of VR series , traveling to Visalia from Exeter locals took Marinette that turns into Walnut . This would drop you into heavily hit neighborhood in Visalia . That side of town was also fast food location due to proximity to COS . Mearle's diner was remenisante to American Grafitti hang out . Classic cars would cruise Mooney Blvd . Exeter didn't have fast food or even traffic lights as they do now , we had one blinking light in the center of town . Exeter was only 2.46 square miles so that area would be easy to bike to and from as suggested . Cycling the distance of Exeter to Visalia although fairly close , would be unlikely as it was narrow farm road with heavy traffic .

McGowen by far had the best phyical discription of JJD . I'm unaware of VPD profiler . I posted to possibility the dispatch ( Exeter PD ) may have played a factor in an easy escape when officers were called to location . It's worth looking into on who Exeter PD dispatched for during VR series . I was under the impression that they received and dispatched or transferred calls back to other agencies .

It's always great to get info from a local.

When you say "who Exeter PD dispatched for during the VR series," can you clarify what that means? Do you mean the Exeter PD dispatcher may have also been the dispatcher for VPD? I'm ignorant of how police business works. I expect you know already, but McGowen was pretty certain the offender used a police scanner.

You also mentioned the common route from Exeter to Visalia. After the McGowen shooting, DeAngelo took a route on foot to escape. Initially he went east a couple of blocks before heading north and doubling back. (Behaviour similar in principle to his escape after the Maggiore murders.) He then ended up alongside the 198. Some speculate he had a car parked in the church grounds at that location. If so, on a present day map, it looks fairly easy to slip onto the 198 from there. Does that seem logical to you? 

On the subject of 198.....

Something often overlooked on VR case is that in those days 198 from County Center west to the 99 was actually at street level. All of the major north/south streets that now cross over it actually intersected it in those days. It wasn’t until a major construction project in the 1990’s altered 198 to its current layout.

This is relevant because at the time of the Snelling murder, Whitney curved west at its north end to outlet at County Center. Leaving the neighborhood one would only have to make two quick right turns to be on the 198 east and on the way to Exeter.

My personal opinion is that JJD didn’t do this, but rather tried to break into a home on Redwood following the murder and then fled east bound on foot through backyards until he reached the area of Mt. Whitney High School where his car was parked.

If he did have a car parked near the Snelling home there would have been no quicker escape than the route I mentioned.

[pod]

zforce,

You illustrate exactly why local intel can be so much more informative than peering at googlemaps. (However much I love googlemaps)