For the Record

[Red909XMZ1]

Aug 28, 2020 19:26:14 GMT cherylh said:

It used to be safe and women could go anywhere they wanted at no risk of sexual assault? I'm old enough to know that's a load of ignorant crap. I not only have my own experiences as a woman in the 1960s-on as reference, but I have my own mother's and my grandmothers'. I've also done a lot of research into crime during the past century as part of my work.

The notion that women weren't being raped back in the day, and if they were, the rapists were all caught and jailed --

Wow. That's such specious nonsense. Read a book. Go into newspaper archives. Look over historical crime statistics. Don't live an ignorant life.


Edited to add:

Another good source of information is to read memoirs and diaries written by people who lived through earlier times. Lots of this material is now available to the public through various libraries and historical collections. You can gather extensive information about the history of sexual assault, and how it was treated, this way.

My own great-grandfather kept a diary in little notebooks he wrote in daily, a new book for every year. He wrote in them from age 19 until four days before his death at age 87. 

He and his wife had a cattle ranch in a tiny town in Colorado for several years. In his diary, he describes an incident in which a local man raped the teacher who ran the one-room schoolhouse where all the area kids were taught. Because the rapist was married and had a family, the schoolteacher was asked to leave the community.

Then a year later the man raped another local woman. This time, the town asked the man and his family to leave.

Formal criminal proceedings were not initiated for the sake of the wife and children. 

That kind of thing happened all the time.

Yes, I could not agree more. Rape has been in existence since the beginning of time. The ancient civilization of Mesopotamia was not even free of it.

[cleopatra]

Sept 1, 2020 9:22:13 GMT armchair916 said:

This letter actually says a lot with out actually saying it, to me anyways, for several reasons. The biggest 2:
1) It reads like a Facebook rant on repeat.
2) More to my point: I would feel extremely shortchanged in life if the only positive thing I could say about my dad is that he makes my bed, cooks for me, can construct a ramp, and is “always there for me”. Nothing VIRTUOUS was said by this woman about her father. What I find most sad is that the idea of having a virtuous father is lost on her (at least it was not articulated in her letter); not even on her horizon. Sad all the way around.

I thought the same things as I was reading the letter. 

[cleopatra]

Sept 1, 2020 7:38:30 GMT starsky said:

There's a cadence and quality to the letter that is unique. Maybe cause of the balanced usage of comma's, something that is common to good writers.

Is it possible the letter was actually written by Sharon?
Could Sharon have been the author of EC? Just speculating.

EC

All those mortal's surviving birth
Upon facing maturity,
Take inventory of their worth
To prevailing society.

Opening line, third paragraph of daughter's letter

My father has taught me the most
lessons out of anyone in my life,
to mold me into a well-rounded
member of society.

That would be so weird if she was the author and while reading about the EAR, came across it for the first time.

[brentwoodseeker]

Sept 2, 2020 17:31:48 GMT thetallman said:

Everyone here, with all due respect, are overthinking.

The daughter that lived with him was a drug addict and drank alot (I've heard she relapsed after he got arrested).

He was keeping her close to genuinely try his best to keep her own the straight and narrow, and not for her own benefit. He was trying desperately to keep her straight so she wouldnt get arrested for a felony and if it meant him having her and her daughter living with him and coddling them, thats what he did. I heard his other daughters have most of the same feelings but still resent his attention to his first born.

Take it for what its worth

thetallman, are you saying his other daughters have the same feelings of love and respect for their father?  Are you close to the family? 

[brentwoodseeker]

Sept 2, 2020 18:39:45 GMT thetallman said:

Sept 2, 2020 18:07:39 GMT brentwoodseeker said:

thetallman, are you saying his other daughters have the same feelings of love and respect for their father?  Are you close to the family? 

nooooo. not part of the family. my mother was a rape victim of his before i was born. she died of a heart attack well before he got caught. i just know a few birdies. my upbringing was strange, i just talk to some who are close than usual because of my mom.

From what I heard all his daughters love him, he was a genuinely good family man, but the other 2 have resentment for the troubled one that lived with him. ive been told more than once its becoming clearer he coddled the older one because she was more prone to committ a felony.

And another thing...why does everyone think he was in wes and angelas house masked up? wes turned around in bed (which was on a second floor and theres a ledge outside of his window) and the VERY SHORT interraction was in between a screen window.

I see.  Thank you for the response, and I'm very sorry to hear your mom was once of his victims.

If the older daughter DID commit a felony, would she be required to submit DNA and therefore reveal a link directly to JJD?

[blackhawk]

Sept 2, 2020 19:51:12 GMT brentwoodseeker said:

Sept 2, 2020 18:39:45 GMT thetallman said:

nooooo. not part of the family. my mother was a rape victim of his before i was born. she died of a heart attack well before he got caught. i just know a few birdies. my upbringing was strange, i just talk to some who are close than usual because of my mom.

From what I heard all his daughters love him, he was a genuinely good family man, but the other 2 have resentment for the troubled one that lived with him. ive been told more than once its becoming clearer he coddled the older one because she was more prone to committ a felony.

And another thing...why does everyone think he was in wes and angelas house masked up? wes turned around in bed (which was on a second floor and theres a ledge outside of his window) and the VERY SHORT interraction was in between a screen window.

I see.  Thank you for the response, and I'm very sorry to hear your mom was once of his victims.

If the older daughter DID commit a felony, would she be required to submit DNA and therefore reveal a link directly to JJD?

I don't understand the Wes story either. If he was in his bedroom and Joe was outside, unless Joe was on the roof, Joe would have been way to far away for any interaction, especially a clinched teeth mumble. Did Wes roll over and see him inside the house? I would think that would be the only way they could have interacted.

This statement, the mom's obit, the dying sister telling Wes the family has secrets. The family dynamic is strange. 

As far as the sister's side:
She tells her children right before she passes she was raped. I'm so sorry for her, but why does she include Joe in it? Why does she let them know something about Joe could be off after this traumatizing event and then hint toward the family has secrets?
Then we have Wes's story of Joe possibly being at Wes's house in the heart of the crime area with a mask on in the middle of the night.
Maybe this is a reach, but it almost seems the sister may have known and let Joe use her house as a safe place.

I would think her and Joe had a very deep relationship forged by this traumatic experience along with all the abuse in their home as children...possibly deep enough to carry his secret and shed a little light to her children before she dies about why she feels Joe is the way he is...so if it does come out after she passes, she has protected his image with at least her children.

[SCOUT]

It's been a while but I think I read somewhere on this board that JJD had threatened or killed some man who dealt drugs to his daughter. If so, It makes even more sense as to why he did it.

[steelbike]

That was entirely speculative. A poster posted information (old newspaper articles) about an unsolved case that took place in a house near JJD’s house in which a guy who had been arrested at some point, years previously, for selling meth who wore his hair in a mullet got killed by a gunshot in his living room whilst his roommates, who were present in the house, slept through the whole thing. Corvette Bob. I believe that it happened within months of his daughters arrest for meth.

Who knows if it had been JJD? I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that it had been.

[walter]

Sept 3, 2020 0:04:18 GMT SCOUT said:

It's been a while but I think I read somewhere on this board that JJD had threatened or killed some man who dealt drugs to his daughter. If so, It makes even more sense as to why he did it.

No that was that group of people who blame every murder in the last 60 years to JJD. There was never a single known interaction between any drug dealer and JJD.

[nighttimeslueth77]

I believe that he targeted Victor Hayes after their altercation(s).

I believe that he targeted Willick (and/or his daughter) after getting fired and that he would have taken them out if given the chance.

He pulled a gun on Bonnie for breaking off their engagement.

So would it really be that much of a reach to think that he took out a drug dealer that was supplying his 1st born with meth?

[elir]

Sept 3, 2020 3:46:43 GMT nighttimeslueth77 said:

I believe that he targeted Victor Hayes after their altercation(s).

I believe that he targeted Willick (and/or his daughter) after getting fired and that he would have taken them out if given the chance.

He pulled a gun on Bonnie for breaking off their engagement.

So would it really be that much of a reach to think that he took out a drug dealer that was supplying his 1st born with meth?

It is not a reach , however by the nature of their activities drug dealers are at risk for a violent end. Other than the family connection are there particular circumstances or evidence that would suggest JJD?

[nighttimeslueth77]

Sept 3, 2020 7:07:03 GMT elir said:

Sept 3, 2020 3:46:43 GMT nighttimeslueth77 said:

I believe that he targeted Victor Hayes after their altercation(s).

I believe that he targeted Willick (and/or his daughter) after getting fired and that he would have taken them out if given the chance.

He pulled a gun on Bonnie for breaking off their engagement.

So would it really be that much of a reach to think that he took out a drug dealer that was supplying his 1st born with meth?

It is not a reach , however by the nature of their activities drug dealers are at risk for a violent end. Other than the family connection are there particular circumstances or evidence that would suggest JJD?

For starters, the murderer snuck into the dealers home in the middle of the night and shot him without waking up anyone else in the home. I agree that drug dealers are at far greater risk than most, but most of the low level drug hits that I'm aware of are of the drive by variety and not carried out by a person who is skilled enough to sneak in the middle of the night, shoot his target and not wake up anyone else in the home.


If this dealer was known by JJD to be his daughters main supplier I would say that's reason enough for him to want to kill him - he's targeted people for far less.

If it can be proven that this dealer did supply the daughter I would say the serial killer father is a good place to start.

[steelbike]

Sept 3, 2020 8:49:01 GMT thetallman said:

Sept 3, 2020 7:07:03 GMT elir said:

It is not a reach , however by the nature of their activities drug dealers are at risk for a violent end. Other than the family connection are there particular circumstances or evidence that would suggest JJD?

One of his Robert Newbury's neices was friends with Joes daughter. Him and Joe met because of that. Robert Newbury was into boating and fishing. They bonded over this and sailed and fished a few times.

i should just come out with everything people are gonna pay to hear paul holes talk about soon, smh.

Theyve pressed him on this but joe only talks to the c.o's and people who arent detectives or prisoners.

Wait, is Robert Newbury Corvette Bob? This guy did have s known connection to JJD and members of his family? 

[elir]

Sept 3, 2020 11:47:30 GMT nighttimeslueth77 said:

Sept 3, 2020 7:07:03 GMT elir said:

It is not a reach , however by the nature of their activities drug dealers are at risk for a violent end. Other than the family connection are there particular circumstances or evidence that would suggest JJD?

For starters, the murderer snuck into the dealers home in the middle of the night and shot him without waking up anyone else in the home. I agree that drug dealers are at far greater risk than most, but most of the low level drug hits that I'm aware of are of the drive by variety and not carried out by a person who is skilled enough to sneak in the middle of the night, shoot his target and not wake up anyone else in the home.


If this dealer was known by JJD to be his daughters main supplier I would say that's reason enough for him to want to kill him - he's targeted people for far less.

If it can be proven that this dealer did supply the daughter I would say the serial killer father is a good place to start.

It’s a place to start on that we agree.

[elir]

Sept 3, 2020 8:49:01 GMT thetallman said:

Sept 3, 2020 7:07:03 GMT elir said:

It is not a reach , however by the nature of their activities drug dealers are at risk for a violent end. Other than the family connection are there particular circumstances or evidence that would suggest JJD?

One of his Robert Newbury's neices was friends with Joes daughter. Him and Joe met because of that. Robert Newbury was into boating and fishing. They bonded over this and sailed and fished a few times.

i should just come out with everything people are gonna pay to hear paul holes talk about soon, smh.

Theyve pressed him on this but joe only talks to the c.o's and people who arent detectives or prisoners.

Tallman can you tell us where or how are you getting this information?