Paul Holes Murder Squad

[cleopatra]

Sept 10, 2020 4:44:11 GMT elir said:

listening to part 1 now. Writing down points in real time so probably missing quite a few things .

Unsure when this happened - the day of the arrest ? One daughter asks Daddy what did you do? And he essentially answers “* you”

Was asking for his wife after arrest? ( that part isn’t clear)

Detective Ken Clark “monologued” was JJD said almost nothing

Question re what happened to charging him for shooting Rodney Miller - Prosecutor felt that though it was likely he did it , they could not definitively prove it .

What was he doing in SoCal- Holes knows that Sharon worked down there but they still aren’t sure what JJD was doing . But they discussed that his step fathers relatives lived in SoCal ( we knew about the Bosankos being down there )

Discussed that Paul Haynes and MIchelle MacNamara were reconstructing who lived in Cordova meadows , owners and renters , who knows wh?

In early 1960s he and a friend were burglarizing in that area, meaning he was committing crimes in that area up until the Maggiore murders .

Holes has not asked active investigators if JJD has a juvenile record, however he notes that juvenile records used to be purged meaning even if JJD had a record from his youth they may not know .

Lots of additional speculation about various things but no facts .
I’m surprised how little they have at this point not sure if it’s because Holes is holding back , or he wasn’t privy to info from the active investigation or no one really knows.

Sounds like Sharon did multiple interviews with investigators , Holes would like to know more from her.

More speculation about why he might have chosen certain sites

Holes introduced Bonnie to the sister survivors!!

There’s more , I’d have to listen again

Thank you Elir.

cleo

[cleopatra]

Sept 13, 2020 17:50:32 GMT f1guyus said:

Sept 13, 2020 16:22:04 GMT jacob93 said:

JJD is already living a solidarity prison life, but from what I've read the living conditions on death row are even worse. Even more restrictions and fewer liberties.

You are missing my point. Probably deliberately, Joe is not a dumb guy, he knows just like the rest of us do that even if he was sentenced to death he’d die of old age before he came close to needle time. There has to be something else that persuaded him to confess and accept responsibility for the crimes that were past the SOL. His assets are first on the list of something else. His daughter said as much in her letter to the court. Her statement is that Joe “was and continues to be my provider”.

I agree.

[walter]

Sept 13, 2020 17:50:32 GMT f1guyus said:

Sept 13, 2020 16:22:04 GMT jacob93 said:

JJD is already living a solidarity prison life, but from what I've read the living conditions on death row are even worse. Even more restrictions and fewer liberties.

You are missing my point. Probably deliberately, Joe is not a dumb guy, he knows just like the rest of us do that even if he was sentenced to death he’d die of old age before he came close to needle time. There has to be something else that persuaded him to confess and accept responsibility for the crimes that were past the SOL. His assets are first on the list of something else. His daughter said as much in her letter to the court. Her statement is that Joe “was and continues to be my provider”.

I believe Jacob is correct - he will still get put on death row even if the actual execution will never happen.  It's quite possible the quality of life matters to him because there is a difference.  That alone could have easily swayed him.

The truth is that none of us know.  It's all guess work because as far as we can tell, the financials are all on the up and up and they can't go after his very limited assets.  Maybe they could have spent a lot of tax payer money never actually getting any of the money but creating a situation where they are tied up for some amount of time but maybe they can't even do that.

What they COULD do is say his privileges are limited to those of everyone else on death row.

[mystalkeriscaged]

Sept 17, 2020 14:45:40 GMT walter said:

Sept 13, 2020 17:50:32 GMT f1guyus said:

You are missing my point. Probably deliberately, Joe is not a dumb guy, he knows just like the rest of us do that even if he was sentenced to death he’d die of old age before he came close to needle time. There has to be something else that persuaded him to confess and accept responsibility for the crimes that were past the SOL. His assets are first on the list of something else. His daughter said as much in her letter to the court. Her statement is that Joe “was and continues to be my provider”.

I believe Jacob is correct - he will still get put on death row even if the actual execution will never happen.  It's quite possible the quality of life matters to him because there is a difference.  That alone could have easily swayed him.

The truth is that none of us know.  It's all guess work because as far as we can tell, the financials are all on the up and up and they can't go after his very limited assets.  Maybe they could have spent a lot of tax payer money never actually getting any of the money but creating a situation where they are tied up for some amount of time but maybe they can't even do that.

What they COULD do is say his privileges are limited to those of everyone else on death row.

[zforce]

Sept 12, 2020 10:33:19 GMT beaumontlivingstone said:

Another interesting point I noticed is that Paul Holes stated that if JJD confesses to any additional murders then the DA would file new charges and the death penalty would be back on the table. Therefore, it seems very unlikely that JJD will provide additional information.

Honestly, I think any DA going to talk to JJD from here on out would probably offer immunity in exchange for a full confession.

There probably isn’t a lot of physical evidence in any of the other cases he’s connected to, so they would basically need his cooperation to begin with.

The only situation I see the death penalty coming back on the table in any case is if they have DNA that ties him, and even then it would be more likely they would plead him out over having an expensive and lengthy trial.

[elir]

Sept 19, 2020 5:38:56 GMT zforce said:

Sept 12, 2020 10:33:19 GMT beaumontlivingstone said:

Another interesting point I noticed is that Paul Holes stated that if JJD confesses to any additional murders then the DA would file new charges and the death penalty would be back on the table. Therefore, it seems very unlikely that JJD will provide additional information.

Honestly, I think any DA going to talk to JJD from here on out would probably offer immunity in exchange for a full confession.

There probably isn’t a lot of physical evidence in any of the other cases he’s connected to, so they would basically need his cooperation to begin with.

The only situation I see the death penalty coming back on the table in any case is if they have DNA that ties him, and even then it would be more likely they would plead him out over having an expensive and lengthy trial.

It a good point of discussion:

Does the value of clearing cases justify giving immunity ?

argument in favor:

1.he is already in jail for life,

2.it is unlikely he would be executed even if he received a death penalty conviction

3.clearing cases would give resolution to families

4.clearing cases might lead to exoneration for those falsely accused of crimes

argument against:

1.no consequences for admitting to guilt

2.possible he would admit guilt for cases he didnt do in exchange for privileges

3.sets a bad precedent for other criminals

what else?

[zforce]

Sept 19, 2020 18:16:54 GMT elir said:

Sept 19, 2020 5:38:56 GMT zforce said:

Honestly, I think any DA going to talk to JJD from here on out would probably offer immunity in exchange for a full confession.

There probably isn’t a lot of physical evidence in any of the other cases he’s connected to, so they would basically need his cooperation to begin with.

The only situation I see the death penalty coming back on the table in any case is if they have DNA that ties him, and even then it would be more likely they would plead him out over having an expensive and lengthy trial.

It a good point of discussion:

Does the value of clearing cases justify giving immunity ?

argument in favor:

1.he is already in jail for life,

2.it is unlikely he would be executed even if he received a death penalty conviction

3.clearing cases would give resolution to families

4.clearing cases might lead to exoneration for those falsely accused of crimes

argument against:

1.no consequences for admitting to guilt

2.possible he would admit guilt for cases he didnt do in exchange for privileges

3.sets a bad precedent for other criminals

what else?

My personal belief is that multiple jurisdictions should not be able to freely talk to JJD, and any potential open cases they have should be discussed and then moderated with him by the FBI.

The more time he has in prison and the more people who come to talk to him would likely end up in a pattern of false confessions.

That being said, there’s undoubtably other cases he hasn’t admitted to but my belief at this point is that LE would only be interested in unsolved murders and any of those cases that don’t have DNA it would probably be worth it for the full confession and the family finally knowing what happened.

[warren]

California probably remembers Texas’ Henry Lee Lucas debacle.