Why Oscar Clifton is innocent - in its most compact form

[johnnyhands1]

Dec 5, 2020 1:59:26 GMT Red909XMZ1 said:

Dec 3, 2020 18:28:08 GMT johnnyhands1 said:

Oscar Clifton is innocent…because he told his attorney the next morning, less than 24 hours after the events, about witnessing the freezer loading and Frank Thomas’ “it’s about time you showed up” quote. 12-26-75 says they have the Dec. 27, 1975 morning intake notes made by defense attorney Donohue in their possession - which details Oscar’s alibi of being on Garden St - not perving two different other girls miles away, who eventually testified against him at trial. How would Oscar know about the Garden St. events involving people he didn’t know - if he wasn’t there. His time after arriving home in the 4 o’clock hour that day (after the kidnapping and murder was committed) don’t allow for him to go hunting in Visalia for an alibi - he was around other people the entire time from four o’clock hour , other than a short 1/4 mile drive around 5pm to his nearby in-laws to meet his wife, until he was arrested in the early AM of December 27.

SUPPORTING DETAIL:
Defense investigator Pettyjohn, a few days later on December 30, 1975, based on what Oscar told attorney Donohue the next morning, asked Thomas about the “it’s about time” comment and Thomas confirmed he had said it. He also said that at that moment, because the freezers loaders were “almost an hour-and-a-half late” he looked at his watch and it was around 3:15pm. He told the same story to TCSO Sgt. Byrd six months later, and he said about looking at his watch, “one hand was on the three and the other hand was a little before 3 or after it.” He also told Sgt. Byrd that Pettyjohn asked him first about the “it’s about time” comment and the freezer loading, not the other way around, as the prosecution claimed.

It wasn’t 2:15pm as some have said because the agreement between Thomas and the freezer loaders was to arrive between 1pm and 2pm, that’s what made 3:15pm “an hour-and-a-half” late. I believe Thomas was a man looking at his watch that day because he was expecting the freezer loaders to arrive any time for over two hours. He was also expecting out-of-town company to arrive that day as well.

Also, one of the freezer loaders’s wife testified that she was dropped off at a Tulare hospital at 2pm, and the freezer loading trio then went to Mrs. Kelly house in Visalia before going to Garden St. to pick up a different freezer. So they couldn’t have made it to Garden St. by 2:15pm (the drive from Tulare to Visalia, the loading of Mrs. Kelly’s freezer, then driving to Garden St could not have been done in fifteen minutes.)

Bill Rose, owner of the Garden St. rental house that Oscar was working on, said he was at the house between 2:30 and 3pm and he didn’t see any freezer loading.

Gene Owens saw Oscar’s truck at around 2:55pm and leaving around 3:05pm in North Visalia. He didn’t know for sure it was Oscar’s truck at the time, but when Oscar called him on Dec. 27 after being arrested for kidnapping but released on bail, he told Owens exactly what he was doing while Oscar was driving past him. Owens was convinced it had to have been Oscar.

One person who wasn’t looking at his watch was Oscar Clifton himself, apparently. He said he was at Garden St. around 3:40 pm (but it must have been 3:15pm if he heard Thomas make the “it’s about time” comment and give details to his attorney the next morning.)  

EDIT:  the Tulare County Conviction Integrity Review says Clifton testified at trial it was between 3:30 and 3:50 when he arrived at Garden St.
 
    www.facebook.com/December261975/photos/a.2223110034627608/2223110137960931 (page 7 of 8)

Why didn’t Oscar know about Frank Thomas verifying the “it’s about time” comment and the freezer loading details and the 3:15pm time? 12-26-75 says that attorneys can’t share evidence they gathered with their clients as that would leave them open to suborning perjury, so Oscar had know idea of what supporting evidence there was (all the the things above) - until trial. Any attorneys out there who can refute that?

The freezer loaders gave times in the 2pm hour at trial, but the evidence points to it being 3:15, not 2:15 - and they weren’t looking at their watches apparently either.

So you can believe the two young women Oscar supposedly perved, at the times the prosecution said he was at two disparate locations, but you’d have to not believe all the defense-bolstering witnesses. So you have to believe one group of witnesses and not believe another.

There wasn’t enough time for Oscar to drive to all the locations involved in the crimes that day, on the prosecution’s timeline.
There’s a lot more - to flesh out even more about I’ve laid out above, as well as uncalled witnesses to Oscar at Garden St., undisclosed evidence to the defense, shenanigans with the physical evidence, coercing/threatening of prosecution witnesses, illegal destruction of evidence, and more. Plus a defense team that was either incompetent and/or corrupt. Oscar’s alibi was never laid out to the jury.

If you believe Oscar wasn’t at Garden St. at 3:15pm, then you have to explain the attorney notes I mentioned above - and all this other evidence. Though some on these message boards have claimed to have discussed the Clifton case ad nauseam, if you haven’t explained the next-morning attorney notes with Oscar’s witnessing of the Thomas “it’s about time” quote and the freezer loading and what time it happened, you haven’t really discussed Oscar's alibi at all.

Johnny,

To believe Oscar Clifton is innocent is to completely disregard the victims' testimony.

In essence, you are inferring they are liars.

Can you explain how you came to this conclusion?

"Mistaken eyewitness identifications contributed to approximately 69% of the more than 375 wrongful convictions in the United States overturned by post-conviction DNA evidence."

innocenceproject.org/eyewitness-identification-reform/

Side note: the Innocence Project was working on Oscar Clifton's case, until they finally found out in 2003, after many court orders to turn over the evidence, and lots of hemming and hawing by the parties who held that evidence, that Sgt. Byrd had illegally ordered destroyed just about all of the physical evidence - that could have been tested for DNA. With nothing to test for DNA, they had no choice but to drop the case.

I'm neutral on the 1965 convictions, but still wondering how Oscar knew about the Garden St. events the very next morning if he wasn't there.

Also, Red, are you calling Frank Thomas, Gene Owens, Bill Rose liars? And don't forget suppressed teenage witnesses Johnny Guerber and Brent Trueblood - who told Sgt. Chamberlain in sworn statements in June 1976, that they saw Oscar at Garden St. and his truck across at the time of the freezer loading.

[murderinc]

Dec 5, 2020 4:30:45 GMT zforce said:

Dec 5, 2020 4:20:34 GMT johnnyhands1 said:

And the pants weren't booked into evidence by Sgt. Byrd until eleven days later after he collected them on 12-28-75 - after the other evidence had been sent to the Oakland (Fresno?) crime lab, so the pants were never sent. Turns out the woman who found the pants and turned them over to Byrd, Laverne Lamb, had a son who was married to the sister of James Scroggins, Don Lee's cousin (Lee was the teenage boyfriend of Donna Richmond, the last person to see her alive, other than the killer.)  Don Lee's family lived next door to James Scroggins, and Lee was driving Scroggins Ford Pinto on his learners permit with Scoggins, when they came home to meet Donna Richmond and her girlfriends who were waiting outside Lee's family home on 12-26-75.

The fact that Mrs. Lamb and Scroggins and Lee were family was never disclosed at trial.

12-26-75 podcast thinks Laverne Lamb may have been convinced by Sgt. Byrd to lie on the stand about finding the pants in the road at 5:15pm on 12-26-75 (having it be that early in the sequence of events was important, it's the only thing that would prove Donna was killed so early in the day - otherwise the defense could have suggested she was killed later than that, when Oscar was out with his wife and in-laws eating dinner. Because Donna's body wasn't found until the next afternoon, the coroner had no way to nail down the time of death any earlier than that.). Also, given Don Lee was the last person to see Donna, so Byrd may have been able to convince her Don himself was a possible suspect, as leverage.

I'm not sure I believe all that - still waiting to know why Oscar knew about Garden St. and told his attorney the next morning if he wasn't there.

You can hear about it yourself from 12-26-75 podcast, "Ep. 28 PS Scroggins Family Reunion":

 podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/12-26-75/id1228807274?i=1000466408215

So why would LE not want to catch the real killer, but rather frame Clifton for it?

This can't be a serious question. The same reasons police and prosecutors have framed thousands of other people?

[zforce]

Dec 5, 2020 5:01:24 GMT murderinc said:

Dec 5, 2020 4:30:45 GMT zforce said:

So why would LE not want to catch the real killer, but rather frame Clifton for it?

This can't be a serious question. The same reasons police and prosecutors have framed thousands of other people?

I’m just trying to understand the rationale behind LE responding to a missing person’s case and immediately deciding to conspire to frame someone rather than going after the person who was responsible.

But please Murderinc, go ahead and continue to take those less than subtle jabs at me.

[bri_bri_]

Dec 5, 2020 4:30:45 GMT zforce said:

So why would LE not want to catch the real killer, but rather frame Clifton for it?

I don't understand what kind of black cloud Clifton must have had over his head or why it was there.

I'm trying to think of innocent suspects for known JJD crimes (at the worst was David Witthuhn) and I can't think of one that went to trial that led to a conviction and prison time.

[zforce]

Dec 5, 2020 5:15:28 GMT bri_bri_ said:

Dec 5, 2020 4:30:45 GMT zforce said:

So why would LE not want to catch the real killer, but rather frame Clifton for it?

I don't understand what kind of black cloud Clifton must have had over his head or why it was there.

I'm trying to think of innocent suspects for known JJD crimes (at the worst was David Witthuhn) and I can't think of one that went to trial that led to a conviction and prison time.

Yeah or if why there was all this exculpatory evidence that could exonerate him he wasn’t ever granted a new trial in any of his appeals, especially in California.

[Red909XMZ1]

Dec 5, 2020 4:37:48 GMT johnnyhands1 said:

Dec 5, 2020 1:59:26 GMT Red909XMZ1 said:

Johnny,

To believe Oscar Clifton is innocent is to completely disregard the victims' testimony.

In essence, you are inferring they are liars.

Can you explain how you came to this conclusion?

"Mistaken eyewitness identifications contributed to approximately 69% of the more than 375 wrongful convictions in the United States overturned by post-conviction DNA evidence."

innocenceproject.org/eyewitness-identification-reform/

Side note: the Innocence Project was working on Oscar Clifton's case, until they finally found out in 2003, after many court orders to turn over the evidence, and lots of hemming and hawing by the parties who held that evidence, that Sgt. Byrd had illegally ordered destroyed just about all of the physical evidence - that could have been tested for DNA. With nothing to test for DNA, they had no choice but to drop the case.

I'm neutral on the 1965 convictions, but still wondering how Oscar knew about the Garden St. events the very next morning if he wasn't there.

Also, Red, are you calling Frank Thomas, Gene Owens, Bill Rose liars? And don't forget suppressed teenage witnesses Johnny Guerber and Brent Trueblood - who told Sgt. Chamberlain in sworn statements in June 1976, that they saw Oscar at Garden St. and his truck across at the time of the freezer loading.

Yes, you bring up a very valid point, Johnny, but as in any case, you need to view the big picture.

I am thoroughly exhausted from this week, so this is not the time to type out a complete summary of why I believe Clifton is guilty, but I will tell you that there is inconsistent reports regarding the time frames. So, I am not calling these particular individuals liars. I will need to address it more thoroughly on another day.

Also, in the Central Valley of California, especially around the Exeter and Visalia area, you can get to point A to point Z in a hot second, pedal to the metal, if you take the back country roads. I have experienced people fly by me going speeds in excess of 100 mph, not a sheriff in sight -- a highly dangerous, illegal, stupid thing to do -- but, unfortunately, it happens all the time.

My point, Johnny?

Clifton may have been excessively speeding from location to location, cutting across those same country roads that people still speed down like maniacs today.

[johnnyhands1]

Dec 5, 2020 5:15:28 GMT bri_bri_ said:

Dec 5, 2020 4:30:45 GMT zforce said:

So why would LE not want to catch the real killer, but rather frame Clifton for it?

I don't understand what kind of black cloud Clifton must have had over his head or why it was there.

I'm trying to think of innocent suspects for known JJD crimes (at the worst was David Witthuhn) and I can't think of one that went to trial that led to a conviction and prison time.

He had 1965 convictions, two incidents in the same day, one of attempted rape on an 18-yr-old girl, and another for, some kind of lewd conduct against a housewife.  There is evidence it was the actual events were overblown, but I'm neutral.

TCSO lead investigator Sgt. Byrd had a long-standing beef with Clifton from earlier days in Farmersville (between Exeter and Visalia just a few miles.). That beef predated even the 1965 events.  12-26-75 podcasts says, after investigating the cause of the beef, said no one they talked to remembered enough to say for sure.

[johnnyhands1]

Dec 5, 2020 5:35:46 GMT Red909XMZ1 said:

Dec 5, 2020 4:37:48 GMT johnnyhands1 said:

"Mistaken eyewitness identifications contributed to approximately 69% of the more than 375 wrongful convictions in the United States overturned by post-conviction DNA evidence."

innocenceproject.org/eyewitness-identification-reform/

Side note: the Innocence Project was working on Oscar Clifton's case, until they finally found out in 2003, after many court orders to turn over the evidence, and lots of hemming and hawing by the parties who held that evidence, that Sgt. Byrd had illegally ordered destroyed just about all of the physical evidence - that could have been tested for DNA. With nothing to test for DNA, they had no choice but to drop the case.

I'm neutral on the 1965 convictions, but still wondering how Oscar knew about the Garden St. events the very next morning if he wasn't there.

Also, Red, are you calling Frank Thomas, Gene Owens, Bill Rose liars? And don't forget suppressed teenage witnesses Johnny Guerber and Brent Trueblood - who told Sgt. Chamberlain in sworn statements in June 1976, that they saw Oscar at Garden St. and his truck across at the time of the freezer loading.

Yes, you bring up a very valid point, Johnny, but as in any case you need to view the big picture.

I am thoroughly exhausted from this week, so this is not the time to type out a complete summary of why I believe Clifton is guilty, but I will tell you that there is inconsistent reports regarding the time frames. So, I am not calling these particular individuals liars. I will need to address it more thoroughly on another day.

Also, in the The Central Family of California, especially around the Exeter and Visalia area, you can get to point A to point Z in a hot second, pedal to the metal, if you take the back country roads. I have experienced people fly by me going speeds in excess of 100 mph, not a sheriff in sight -- a highly dangerous, illegal, stupid thing to do -- but, unfortunately, it happens all the time.

My point, Johnny?

Clifton may have been excessively speeding from location to location, cutting across those same country roads that people still speed down like maniacs today.

If Gene Owens saw Oscar's truck driving past him around 2:55pm toward Oscar's sister-in-laws house to look at her defective clothes dryer (which they had discussed at a family get together on the previous day (Christmas day)) and leaving at around 3:05pm, how does he get the 21 miles to Woodlake around 3pm, do a perv on Beth Brumley, drive the 11 miles to Spruce and List ave's in Exeter to perv Gloria Moscorro.  How fast do you think he was driving?

Note both perv times are from the Tulare County 2019 conviction review.

[murderinc]

“Oscar Clifton, around noon at his brother-in-law’s house on Ave. 264, about 8.41 miles away from Donna and Carol. : “stopped home for lunch, spent some time with Avery Dula then returned to the Garden street remodel in Visalia."

murderincorp.wordpress.com/2019/04/17/framed/

[johnnyhands1]

Dec 5, 2020 4:30:45 GMT zforce said:

Dec 5, 2020 4:20:34 GMT johnnyhands1 said:

And the pants weren't booked into evidence by Sgt. Byrd until eleven days later after he collected them on 12-28-75 - after the other evidence had been sent to the Oakland (Fresno?) crime lab, so the pants were never sent. Turns out the woman who found the pants and turned them over to Byrd, Laverne Lamb, had a son who was married to the sister of James Scroggins, Don Lee's cousin (Lee was the teenage boyfriend of Donna Richmond, the last person to see her alive, other than the killer.)  Don Lee's family lived next door to James Scroggins, and Lee was driving Scroggins Ford Pinto on his learners permit with Scoggins, when they came home to meet Donna Richmond and her girlfriends who were waiting outside Lee's family home on 12-26-75.

The fact that Mrs. Lamb and Scroggins and Lee were family was never disclosed at trial.

12-26-75 podcast thinks Laverne Lamb may have been convinced by Sgt. Byrd to lie on the stand about finding the pants in the road at 5:15pm on 12-26-75 (having it be that early in the sequence of events was important, it's the only thing that would prove Donna was killed so early in the day - otherwise the defense could have suggested she was killed later than that, when Oscar was out with his wife and in-laws eating dinner. Because Donna's body wasn't found until the next afternoon, the coroner had no way to nail down the time of death any earlier than that.). Also, given Don Lee was the last person to see Donna, so Byrd may have been able to convince her Don himself was a possible suspect, as leverage.

I'm not sure I believe all that - still waiting to know why Oscar knew about Garden St. and told his attorney the next morning if he wasn't there.

You can hear about it yourself from 12-26-75 podcast, "Ep. 28 PS Scroggins Family Reunion":

 podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/12-26-75/id1228807274?i=1000466408215

So why would LE not want to catch the real killer, but rather frame Clifton for it?

They thought he was guilty, and all they had was the Oscar's receipt invoice book (if it wasn't planted by Byrd.)   The reason they thought he was guilty because when first arrested for kidnap, according the 12-26-75 podcast, he told them he was at "Bill Rose's house", which he was, but it was a Bill Rose property, not Bill Rose's home, and Bill Rose wasn't there.  TCSO took "Bill Rose's house" to mean Oscar was saying he was with Bill Rose sometime in the 3 o'clock hour - and they quickly identified he was not with Bill Rose, then decided he was guilty, because they thought he was lying to them.

In the video series, "Framed by the Golden State Killer?", Oscar's oldest daughter, 15 at the time of the arrest, who woken up in the earlier morning of Dec. 1975, was there.  She quoted Sgt. Byrd as saying to Oscar as they were taking him away, "we didn't get you last time, we're gonna get you this time."

(part 1 of 4, queued up to when the Clifton children are interviewed)

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=0os4cHvsLFM&t=209s     

[zforce]

Dec 5, 2020 7:02:48 GMT johnnyhands1 said:

Dec 5, 2020 4:30:45 GMT zforce said:

So why would LE not want to catch the real killer, but rather frame Clifton for it?

They thought he was guilty, and all they had was the Oscar's receipt invoice book (if it wasn't planted by Byrd.)   The reason they thought he was guilty because when first arrested for kidnap, according the 12-26-75 podcast, he told them he was at "Bill Rose's house", which he was, but it was a Bill Rose property, not Bill Rose's home, and Bill Rose wasn't there.  TCSO took "Bill Rose's house" to mean Oscar was saying he was with Bill Rose sometime in the 3 o'clock hour - and they quickly identified he was not with Bill Rose, then decided he was guilty, because they thought he was lying to them.

In the video series, "Framed by the Golden State Killer?", Oscar's oldest daughter, 15 at the time of the arrest, who woken up in the earlier morning of Dec. 1975, was there.  She quoted Sgt. Byrd as saying to Oscar as they were taking him away, "we didn't get you last time, we're gonna get you this time."

(part 1 of 4, queued up to when the Clifton children are interviewed)

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=0os4cHvsLFM&t=209s     

So who was the flasher first in Woodlake and then in Exeter who had Clifton’s receipt book? It was at the abduction scene prior to LE being contacted so either this person or Donna’s brother/friend’s would have needed to have it.

[johnnyhands1]

Dec 5, 2020 7:42:11 GMT zforce said:

Dec 5, 2020 7:02:48 GMT johnnyhands1 said:

They thought he was guilty, and all they had was the Oscar's receipt invoice book (if it wasn't planted by Byrd.)   The reason they thought he was guilty because when first arrested for kidnap, according the 12-26-75 podcast, he told them he was at "Bill Rose's house", which he was, but it was a Bill Rose property, not Bill Rose's home, and Bill Rose wasn't there.  TCSO took "Bill Rose's house" to mean Oscar was saying he was with Bill Rose sometime in the 3 o'clock hour - and they quickly identified he was not with Bill Rose, then decided he was guilty, because they thought he was lying to them.

In the video series, "Framed by the Golden State Killer?", Oscar's oldest daughter, 15 at the time of the arrest, who woken up in the earlier morning of Dec. 1975, was there.  She quoted Sgt. Byrd as saying to Oscar as they were taking him away, "we didn't get you last time, we're gonna get you this time."

(part 1 of 4, queued up to when the Clifton children are interviewed)

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=0os4cHvsLFM&t=209s     

So who was the flasher first in Woodlake and then in Exeter who had Clifton’s receipt book? It was at the abduction scene prior to LE being contacted so either this person or Donna’s brother/friend’s would have needed to have it.

For me, knowing what we know now, Deangelo should be the main suspect.  I just want to know why Oscar knew of the Garden St. events, the very next morning, if he wasn't there.

[zforce]

Dec 5, 2020 5:35:46 GMT Red909XMZ1 said:

Dec 5, 2020 4:37:48 GMT johnnyhands1 said:

"Mistaken eyewitness identifications contributed to approximately 69% of the more than 375 wrongful convictions in the United States overturned by post-conviction DNA evidence."

innocenceproject.org/eyewitness-identification-reform/

Side note: the Innocence Project was working on Oscar Clifton's case, until they finally found out in 2003, after many court orders to turn over the evidence, and lots of hemming and hawing by the parties who held that evidence, that Sgt. Byrd had illegally ordered destroyed just about all of the physical evidence - that could have been tested for DNA. With nothing to test for DNA, they had no choice but to drop the case.

I'm neutral on the 1965 convictions, but still wondering how Oscar knew about the Garden St. events the very next morning if he wasn't there.

Also, Red, are you calling Frank Thomas, Gene Owens, Bill Rose liars? And don't forget suppressed teenage witnesses Johnny Guerber and Brent Trueblood - who told Sgt. Chamberlain in sworn statements in June 1976, that they saw Oscar at Garden St. and his truck across at the time of the freezer loading.

Yes, you bring up a very valid point, Johnny, but as in any case you need to view the big picture.

I am thoroughly exhausted from this week, so this is not the time to type out a complete summary of why I believe Clifton is guilty, but I will tell you that there is inconsistent reports regarding the time frames. So, I am not calling these particular individuals liars. I will need to address it more thoroughly on another day.

Also, in the The Central Family of California, especially around the Exeter and Visalia area, you can get to point A to point Z in a hot second, pedal to the metal, if you take the back country roads. I have experienced people fly by me going speeds in excess of 100 mph, not a sheriff in sight -- a highly dangerous, illegal, stupid thing to do -- but, unfortunately, it happens all the time.

My point, Johnny?

Clifton may have been excessively speeding from location to location, cutting across those same country roads that people still speed down like maniacs today.

Great post in relation to the geography of the area.

Something I personally do when looking into any cold case is first take inventory of the geography of where the crime took place. I’ve found it to be a very helpful approach, largely to better understand the offender.

I’ve been very fortunate to have visited the Richmond crime scenes about a dozen times from 2010 to 2012, and its actually pretty striking how close everything actually is, whereas everything feels more spread out and distant when just viewing it on a map.

Nothing about the offender’s behavior supports any sort of framing theory. Donna Richmond’s abduction/murder is clearly a sex crime gone awry given the incidents leading up to it.

One thing my friend who accompanied me and I were never actually quite able to pin down is where exactly Clifton encountered Donna. I had always assumed that he had been lying in wait on the short cut, but after visiting the scene it almost seemed to be way too fortuitous for a guy looking to commit that type of crime to have Donna come right to him. He had to have seen her enter the short cut and then driven in after her, but I’ve often wondered if he had been following her for some time and creeped her out to the point that she actually took the short cut as an effort to escape him.

[johnnyhands1]

Dec 5, 2020 8:04:20 GMT zforce said:

Dec 5, 2020 5:35:46 GMT Red909XMZ1 said:

Yes, you bring up a very valid point, Johnny, but as in any case you need to view the big picture.

I am thoroughly exhausted from this week, so this is not the time to type out a complete summary of why I believe Clifton is guilty, but I will tell you that there is inconsistent reports regarding the time frames. So, I am not calling these particular individuals liars. I will need to address it more thoroughly on another day.

Also, in the The Central Family of California, especially around the Exeter and Visalia area, you can get to point A to point Z in a hot second, pedal to the metal, if you take the back country roads. I have experienced people fly by me going speeds in excess of 100 mph, not a sheriff in sight -- a highly dangerous, illegal, stupid thing to do -- but, unfortunately, it happens all the time.

My point, Johnny?

Clifton may have been excessively speeding from location to location, cutting across those same country roads that people still speed down like maniacs today.

Great post in relation to the geography of the area.

Something I personally do when looking into any cold case is first take inventory of the geography of where the crime took place. I’ve found it to be a very helpful approach, largely to better understand the offender.

I’ve been very fortunate to have visited the Richmond crime scenes about a dozen times from 2010 to 2012, and its actually pretty striking how close everything actually is, whereas everything feels more spread out and distant when just viewing it on a map.

Nothing about the offender’s behavior supports any sort of framing theory. Donna Richmond’s abduction/murder is clearly a sex crime gone awry given the incidents leading up to it.

One thing my friend who accompanied me and I were never actually quite able to pin down is where exactly Clifton encountered Donna. I had always assumed that he had been lying in wait on the short cut, but after visiting the scene it almost seemed to be way too fortuitous for a guy looking to commit that type of crime to have Donna come right to him. He had to have seen her enter the short cut and then driven in after her, but I’ve often wondered if he had been following her for some time and creeped her out to the point that she actually took the short cut as an effort to escape him.

What time do you think Oscar left Garden St. for the last time that day?  (He was definitely there, the stove top parts from the Garden St. house in his truck bed on arrest.)

[zforce]

Dec 5, 2020 8:58:08 GMT johnnyhands1 said:

Dec 5, 2020 8:04:20 GMT zforce said:

Great post in relation to the geography of the area.

Something I personally do when looking into any cold case is first take inventory of the geography of where the crime took place. I’ve found it to be a very helpful approach, largely to better understand the offender.

I’ve been very fortunate to have visited the Richmond crime scenes about a dozen times from 2010 to 2012, and its actually pretty striking how close everything actually is, whereas everything feels more spread out and distant when just viewing it on a map.

Nothing about the offender’s behavior supports any sort of framing theory. Donna Richmond’s abduction/murder is clearly a sex crime gone awry given the incidents leading up to it.

One thing my friend who accompanied me and I were never actually quite able to pin down is where exactly Clifton encountered Donna. I had always assumed that he had been lying in wait on the short cut, but after visiting the scene it almost seemed to be way too fortuitous for a guy looking to commit that type of crime to have Donna come right to him. He had to have seen her enter the short cut and then driven in after her, but I’ve often wondered if he had been following her for some time and creeped her out to the point that she actually took the short cut as an effort to escape him.

What time do you think Oscar left Garden St. for the last time that day?  (He was definitely there, the stove top parts from the Garden St. house in his truck bed on arrest.)

[


No clue. I don’t have any recollection of the testimony of how Oscar spent his day previous to going to Woodlake.