The Shelley Morgan Murder

[shelleym]

Jul 2, 2023 20:33:45 GMT sammyt said:

Jul 2, 2023 19:10:49 GMT shelleym said:

This thread has made interesting reading, particularly around the tights. Unfortunately I do not have a lot of spare time to contribute to this thread, but just wanted to add some observations about the tights.

1. The police have never said that the tights were Shelley's or whether she wore tights that day, just that her body was found with a pair of tights around her ankles (not her ankles tied by the tights) which leads onto .....

2. The pair of tights were found around her "ankles", not an "ankle". Remembering these are tights and not stockings, now think about pants (assuming she was wearing some) and how they could have been removed whilst her tights were around her ankles. Pants cut off, or were pants removed and then tights put on? Leading onto ........

3. Tight fetish murderer? Check out Donald Sheridan first convicted in 1987 (South Wales) his "murder victim had been found naked wearing only a pair of tights and he only admitted to having raped her before killing her after being jailed for life." Convicted again in 2019 "strangled the victim, made her put on a pair of tights and told her he would rape her." - disturbed by passers by and the victim survived. www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/fetish-murderer-lied-parole-board-17302763

Welcome to the boards.

I think the tights were Shelley's.  She is wearing tights in the Crimewatch reconstruction.  I would also probably guess that Shelley was stripped and then the tights were used as a restraint.

Donald Sheridan seems to have been out of prison in 1984, but not sure if he had any links to Bristol.  The area where Shelley was discovered is quite isolated.  She wasn't left near a motorway, or obvious route,  for a long distance commuter offender. 

Thank you for the welcome to the boards.

I understand where you are coming from on the tights.

There is a website on the internet shelleymorganmurder.com with all the police appeals, and the one thing that stands out is that at no time do the police provide a description of what Shelley was wearing (except glasses), no reference to the the colour/style of her coat nor colour of her sandals etc. which leads me to think the police are not 100% sure what she was actually wearing on the day she disappeared. Therefore was she/was she not wearing tights is not conclusive.

The other things that came to mind is, would a woman wear tights with sandals? or even if they did would they want to on a warm sunny June day?

[sammyt]

You might well be right. In the early newspaper reports there are conflicting descriptions of what she was wearing.

Shelley made a lot of her own clothes. The later reports have her wearing a maroon tabard, which doesn't sound much like summer wear either.

The tights were burgundy coloured. I wondered the same thing about a women wearing tights with sandals and in June.

That's a very good website. I can't believe I haven't seen that before, and wonder who set that up.

[sammyt]

I tend to agree with Shelley's sister, that Shelley got into a vehicle with someone in the afternoon whilst heading home.

Maybe a taxi driver, or someone posing as one. Or a motorist who saw her at the bus stop and persuaded her to accept a lift. Another option is that a passing motorist abducted her by force. A slimmer possibility is that it was someone she had encountered earlier in the day, who had promised her a lift home.

[dickere]

Jul 6, 2023 20:01:58 GMT sammyt said:

You might well be right. In the early newspaper reports there are conflicting descriptions of what she was wearing.

Shelley made a lot of her own clothes. The later reports have her wearing a maroon tabard, which doesn't sound much like summer wear either.

The tights were burgundy coloured. I wondered the same thing about a women wearing tights with sandals and in June.

That's a very good website. I can't believe I haven't seen that before, and wonder who set that up.

Same here, shame it isn't better publicized, it's a good site. I'd never seen her artwork before, I wonder where that came from as in who would have access to it - assuming it is genuine of course.

[sammyt]

Shelley was very talented and it seems like her career was just about to take off when she was murdered. Her paintings had just been displayed at a local gallery, and she had also been commissioned to produce a couple of landscape paintings (which is why she was making preparatory sketches and taking photographs that day).

[vivazapata]

Jul 6, 2023 20:01:58 GMT sammyt said:

You might well be right. In the early newspaper reports there are conflicting descriptions of what she was wearing.

Shelley made a lot of her own clothes. The later reports have her wearing a maroon tabard, which doesn't sound much like summer wear either.

The tights were burgundy coloured. I wondered the same thing about a women wearing tights with sandals and in June.

That's a very good website. I can't believe I haven't seen that before, and wonder who set that up.

I did a little looking and you may not have seen it before because the domain name itself wasnt registered until April 2023, it probably took a bit to create the site I would imagine. The owner ID is hidden behind a registrar as are most nowadays but signs point to a UK based person as does the language used on the site. 

If you scroll down the home page there is a contact page AND there is an email button on the left hand side of the page so if it were my case I was involved in I would drop a line and see if he/she wanted to join the "Heavy Mob" here...and yes I know but how often do you think I get a chance to reference The Sweeney ?

They also might want to include a pointer to the boards on the site for people who are interested in discussion.

Maybe if you make a connect they can help with setting up a website like theirs for the BR,not sure what the options are in the UK but here they can be really inexpensive,many people have gone to FacePlant or Instanonnying but a website is way better for organizing material for my money. Speaking of money most of the American companies serve international clientele so you can probably pay with ha' pennies,farthings and shillings just like real currency.

[ttk]

Jul 8, 2023 10:26:56 GMT dickere said:

Jul 6, 2023 20:01:58 GMT sammyt said:

You might well be right. In the early newspaper reports there are conflicting descriptions of what she was wearing.

Shelley made a lot of her own clothes. The later reports have her wearing a maroon tabard, which doesn't sound much like summer wear either.

The tights were burgundy coloured. I wondered the same thing about a women wearing tights with sandals and in June.

That's a very good website. I can't believe I haven't seen that before, and wonder who set that up.

Same here, shame it isn't better publicized, it's a good site. I'd never seen her artwork before, I wonder where that came from as in who would have access to it - assuming it is genuine of course.

I think that the artwork on the site has come from screenshots from Crimewatch

See youtu.be/N2RiCW3iUTk    13 mins 50 secs

[ttk]

Jul 6, 2023 20:57:04 GMT sammyt said:

I tend to agree with Shelley's sister, that Shelley got into a vehicle with someone in the afternoon whilst heading home.

Maybe a taxi driver, or someone posing as one. Or a motorist who saw her at the bus stop and persuaded her to accept a lift. Another option is that a passing motorist abducted her by force. A slimmer possibility is that it was someone she had encountered earlier in the day, who had promised her a lift home.

Curiously the SIO said on Crimewatch in 1984 that the one thing that they were certain of was that a ‘car’ was used


youtu.be/N2RiCW3iUTk  10 m 35 s

He may have meant vehicle, and just made a slip on live TV, but if he didn’t it means that the yellow lorry or the blue van is excluded 

[ttk]

Jul 2, 2023 19:10:49 GMT shelleym said:

This thread has made interesting reading, particularly around the tights. Unfortunately I do not have a lot of spare time to contribute to this thread, but just wanted to add some observations about the tights.

1. The police have never said that the tights were Shelley's or whether she wore tights that day, just that her body was found with a pair of tights around her ankles (not her ankles tied by the tights) which leads onto .....

2. The pair of tights were found around her "ankles", not an "ankle". Remembering these are tights and not stockings, now think about pants (assuming she was wearing some) and how they could have been removed whilst her tights were around her ankles. Pants cut off, or were pants removed and then tights put on? Leading onto ........

3. Tight fetish murderer? Check out Donald Sheridan first convicted in 1987 (South Wales) his "murder victim had been found naked wearing only a pair of tights and he only admitted to having raped her before killing her after being jailed for life." Convicted again in 2019 "strangled the victim, made her put on a pair of tights and told her he would rape her." - disturbed by passers by and the victim survived. www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/fetish-murderer-lied-parole-board-17302763

Just on point 2, the Batman Rapist:

- Made the victims take off their tights and pants, and then made them put the tights back on.  This was a specific MO & is consistent with how Shelley was found

- On at least one occasion, when the victim was not wearing tights, he produced a pair he had on his person and made her out them on.  The one occasion we know about was the attack in October 1991 on Bathwick Hill

According to the Times crime correspondent, the rapist then cut the victim’s tights off with his knife (there may well be more horrific detail here but if there is, it has not been released).

If we ever find this guy, his devices will be clogged with tights porn

[ttk]

Jul 11, 2023 18:19:35 GMT vivazapata said:

Jul 6, 2023 20:01:58 GMT sammyt said:

You might well be right. In the early newspaper reports there are conflicting descriptions of what she was wearing.

Shelley made a lot of her own clothes. The later reports have her wearing a maroon tabard, which doesn't sound much like summer wear either.

The tights were burgundy coloured. I wondered the same thing about a women wearing tights with sandals and in June.

That's a very good website. I can't believe I haven't seen that before, and wonder who set that up.

Speaking of money most of the American companies serve international clientele so you can probably pay with ha' pennies,farthings and shillings just like real currency.

thankyou kindly good sir, I tip my top hat in your direction

[sammyt]

Jul 11, 2023 18:19:35 GMT vivazapata said:

Jul 6, 2023 20:01:58 GMT sammyt said:

You might well be right. In the early newspaper reports there are conflicting descriptions of what she was wearing.

Shelley made a lot of her own clothes. The later reports have her wearing a maroon tabard, which doesn't sound much like summer wear either.

The tights were burgundy coloured. I wondered the same thing about a women wearing tights with sandals and in June.

That's a very good website. I can't believe I haven't seen that before, and wonder who set that up.

I did a little looking and you may not have seen it before because the domain name itself wasnt registered until April 2023, it probably took a bit to create the site I would imagine. The owner ID is hidden behind a registrar as are most nowadays but signs point to a UK based person as does the language used on the site. 

If you scroll down the home page there is a contact page AND there is an email button on the left hand side of the page so if it were my case I was involved in I would drop a line and see if he/she wanted to join the "Heavy Mob" here...and yes I know but how often do you think I get a chance to reference The Sweeney ?

They also might want to include a pointer to the boards on the site for people who are interested in discussion.

Maybe if you make a connect they can help with setting up a website like theirs for the BR,not sure what the options are in the UK but here they can be really inexpensive,many people have gone to FacePlant or Instanonnying but a website is way better for organizing material for my money. Speaking of money most of the American companies serve international clientele so you can probably pay with ha' pennies,farthings and shillings just like real currency.

Thanks a lot for looking into that. 

It's fairly easy to set up a website in the UK. Perhaps a BR website would draw more people to the case.

The 'Heavy Mob' definitely need more researchers to help with the Bath and Bristol cases.  I'm surprised there's not much interest in the BR case from within the UK true crime community.

[sammyt]

Jul 15, 2023 8:28:32 GMT ttk said:

Jul 6, 2023 20:57:04 GMT sammyt said:

Curiously the SIO said on Crimewatch in 1984 that the one thing that they were certain of was that a ‘car’ was used


youtu.be/N2RiCW3iUTk  10 m 35 s

He may have meant vehicle, and just made a slip on live TV, but if he didn’t it means that the yellow lorry or the blue van is excluded 

I think that must have been a slip up.  I doubt if the police know if it was a car, van or lorry.  They just know that a vehicle must have been used due to the distances involved. 

Police seem convinced that Shelley was abducted near to Clifton, as she was returning home.  That doesn't necessarily rule out any of the possible vehicles of interest.  Someone she encountered that day could have promised her a lift home.  Or she mentions her plans and someone intercepts her in the afternoon. 

None of the men from the possible sightings that day ever came forward.  It's not really surprising that men didn't want to put themselves forward to the police in the mid 80s.  Good chance of ending up as a prime suspect, even if you were innocent.  

[sammyt]

Jul 6, 2023 9:26:29 GMT shelleym said:

There is a website on the internet shelleymorganmurder.com with all the police appeals, and the one thing that stands out is that at no time do the police provide a description of what Shelley was wearing (except glasses), no reference to the the colour/style of her coat nor colour of her sandals etc. which leads me to think the police are not 100% sure what she was actually wearing on the day she disappeared. Therefore was she/was she not wearing tights is not conclusive.

There are a couple of other issues with the descriptions, but the police may have held back a couple of things to eliminate false confessors etc.  There's also the issue of maintaining public sympathy for the victim, which can be another reason for details to seem a bit cloudy.  

There's really not much to suggest that Shelley was engaging in any nefarious behaviour though.  She also wasn't a particularly outgoing person, although it's still possible that someone in her social circle knew of her plans to go to the gorge that day.

There are probably at least half a dozen decent suspects for this murder, if not a dozen.  There were a lot of lunatics in Somerset in the 1980s.  Thinking about Donald Sheridan though: he is re-arrested in 2019, which is the same year the police publicise the postcards.  So he's another one who potentially could have the postcards found in his possessions.

[sammyt]

Why are Shelley's ankles bound with tights, but not her wrists?

From what I've read on many offenders and without going into detail, rapists often untie the ankles, but keep the wrists secured.

Why is Shelley found with the wrist/ankle bindings 'the wrong way round'? Perhaps the perp removes the wrist restraints because they are something he has brought with him.

IMO her body/crime scene has definitely been staged. Her underwear has presumably been removed yet she still has tights on. I don't think her sandals aren't disguarded far enough away from the body for the killer to have missed them during his otherwise thorough clean up.

[shelleym]

Jul 15, 2023 8:28:32 GMT ttk said:

Jul 6, 2023 20:57:04 GMT sammyt said:

I tend to agree with Shelley's sister, that Shelley got into a vehicle with someone in the afternoon whilst heading home.

Maybe a taxi driver, or someone posing as one. Or a motorist who saw her at the bus stop and persuaded her to accept a lift. Another option is that a passing motorist abducted her by force. A slimmer possibility is that it was someone she had encountered earlier in the day, who had promised her a lift home.

Curiously the SIO said on Crimewatch in 1984 that the one thing that they were certain of was that a ‘car’ was used


youtu.be/N2RiCW3iUTk  10 m 35 s

He may have meant vehicle, and just made a slip on live TV, but if he didn’t it means that the yellow lorry or the blue van is excluded