11/30 Visalia items and activity

[dengas]

Would he transport on a bike, in a car, walking, skateboard, or  Don't answer this Lepke!

I am just going to make one large paragraph so you can see what a busy boy the guy was in the few hours attributed to his task:
  

36. money, removed screen, ransacked bedrooms, items on front door as warning  37. Money ransacked ALL rooms mother and daughter's clothing, tore photo of son, daughter goes to mt. Whitney HS and was in band, left pointS of escape 38.  Money, ransacked bedrooms, Libby bank, jewelry ransacked, removed screen, left item inside back door as warning  39. Nothing taken, removed screen, ransacked ALL rooms, threw female underclothing, left point of escape  40.  Money and two rings, ransacked ALL rooms, one earring, threw female underclothing, left point of escape. 41.  Money, ransacked kitchen and bedrooms, no female clothing jewelry or underclothing in house, left point of escape  42.  Nothing taken, removed screen and left on bed, ransacked bedroom and den, no female jewelry or underclothing in house, left point of escape.  43.  Money, attempted to pry door unsuccessfully, ransacked all rooms, threw female underclothing and in handwriting...took Smirnoff and pills 44. Money, attempted to pry door unsuccessfully, ransacked all rooms, threw clothing, left point of escape, prints obtained 45. Took 20 ga. Shells and box of 22 ammo, ransacked ALL rooms, threw female underclothing, left point of escape 46. Money, ransacked bedrooms, removed screen, left point of escape.

phew.  And all beginning around 5:30 P.M. and ending at midnight, so 6.5 hours, not just a few hours as I have repeatedly posted, and not during the football game as Portofleith has posted.

feel free to move to proper place (Visalia thread), but I figured more would see it here.  

[dengas]

Piggy bank, not Libby bank

[dengas]

So, to answer my own question, no answer...any of the modes would work

[t]

  torn photo jumped out at me

  (don't answer any of mine Lepke)

  as naturally does the woman's underwear trip

  -- was wondering! what the hell is a Libby Bank 

    so dengas -- do you think VR and EAR/ONS

  are one and the same?

    

[dengas]

Yes, t, I do believe they are the same, but my belief isn't popular. It believe that there were times he, VR and EAR, but not ONS, had a driver.

[xiulan]

Apr 8, 2014 21:58:19 GMT @dengas said:

Yes, t, I do believe they are the same, but my belief isn't popular. It believe that there were times he, VR and EAR, but not ONS, had a driver.

Now that is an interesting line of thought... I would think it would have to be someone close to him and there probably weren't many people on that list. Intrigued by your thoughts on him having a driver of sorts and whether you think that would have been a situation of VR/EAR exerting undue dominant influence over the other person or more a manipulation of their personal relationship. Excellent thread, by the way, and thanks for posting that information on the 11/30 attacks so concisely for us. Great stuff!

[t]

Apr 8, 2014 21:58:19 GMT @dengas said:

Yes, t, I do believe they are the same, but my belief isn't popular. It believe that there were times he, VR and EAR, but not ONS, had a driver.

          well i like it!  A LOT!

[t]

    second guy = lookout

[Deleted]

It sounds like he DID take a fair amount of money - judging from the above list. I realize that money was not the main objective of his ransackings - but, it sounds like VR, EAR and ONS DID accumulate quite a stash of money, jewelry and other things from the many, many thefts. We think of him as a rapist and murderer because those were, obviously, his most serious offenses, but he also:

beat up females - did he beat any males? (other than Greg Sanchez who initiated a physical confrontation with him - Greg made the correct choice, of course, but VR/EAR/ONS preferred to just shoot - or bash - restrained males)

beat/killed pets
stole money and other valuables
vandalized homes
obscene phone caller
peeped/prowled on many unknown victims
stalked women - likely many unknown victims
exposed himself
impersonated various types of occupations - including municipal workers
car thief
bondage fetishist (not illegal - if partners are consenting - but considered a paraphilia)

Did I leave anthing out?

EDIT:  Somebody has to be suspicious that this guy - if he is still alive - has committed serious crimes in his past.  There is NO way that he is able to appear "normal" to those that are very close to him - if there is anybody very close to him...but, surprisingly, there usually is with these creatures.

[zforce]

Apr 8, 2014 16:49:42 GMT @dengas said:

Would he transport on a bike, in a car, walking, skateboard, or  Don't answer this Lepke!

I am just going to make one large paragraph so you can see what a busy boy the guy was in the few hours attributed to his task:
  

36. money, removed screen, ransacked bedrooms, items on front door as warning  37. Money ransacked ALL rooms mother and daughter's clothing, tore photo of son, daughter goes to mt. Whitney HS and was in band, left pointS of escape 38.  Money, ransacked bedrooms, Libby bank, jewelry ransacked, removed screen, left item inside back door as warning  39. Nothing taken, removed screen, ransacked ALL rooms, threw female underclothing, left point of escape  40.  Money and two rings, ransacked ALL rooms, one earring, threw female underclothing, left point of escape. 41.  Money, ransacked kitchen and bedrooms, no female clothing jewelry or underclothing in house, left point of escape  42.  Nothing taken, removed screen and left on bed, ransacked bedroom and den, no female jewelry or underclothing in house, left point of escape.  43.  Money, attempted to pry door unsuccessfully, ransacked all rooms, threw female underclothing and in handwriting...took Smirnoff and pills 44. Money, attempted to pry door unsuccessfully, ransacked all rooms, threw clothing, left point of escape, prints obtained 45. Took 20 ga. Shells and box of 22 ammo, ransacked ALL rooms, threw female underclothing, left point of escape 46. Money, ransacked bedrooms, removed screen, left point of escape.

phew.  And all beginning around 5:30 P.M. and ending at midnight, so 6.5 hours, not just a few hours as I have repeatedly posted, and not during the football game as Portofleith has posted.

feel free to move to proper place (Visalia thread), but I figured more would see it here.  

Were these listed by the time people arrived home? I think the 6.5 hour time frame is used liberally in that the last one wasn't discoverd until around midnight. He likely operated within a more condensed time frame. Much like the 6-11pm we've been used to seeing.

[Brad]

11 in one night with a 5 mile/15 minute spread.

If this particular 1 day cluster was performed on the behalf of one particular person, I cannot imagine a scenario where there wasn't a "scout" or "go-ahead" person. It kind of blows the idea that there wasn't one out of the water, at least to me.

[t]

Apr 10, 2014 15:22:37 GMT Brad said:

11 in one night with a 5 mile/15 minute spread.

If this particular 1 day cluster was performed on the behalf of one particular person, I cannot imagine a scenario where there wasn't a "scout" or "go-ahead" person. It kind of blows the idea that there wasn't one out of the water, at least to me.

      Brad can you clarify please: . . ."performed on the behalf of one particular person"

                                                      

[Brad]

Apr 10, 2014 16:26:52 GMT t said:

Apr 10, 2014 15:22:37 GMT Brad said:

11 in one night with a 5 mile/15 minute spread.

If this particular 1 day cluster was performed on the behalf of one particular person, I cannot imagine a scenario where there wasn't a "scout" or "go-ahead" person. It kind of blows the idea that there wasn't one out of the water, at least to me.

      Brad can you clarify please: . . ."performed on the behalf of one particular person"

                                                      

Sure, I just mean if all the ransackings that night are related. There was more than one weirdo out doing this kind of thing, possibly unrelated to each other. I didn't want to say "performed by one guy" because the point of my post was that I think it suggests strongly that there were TWO guys involved in getting all 11 done that night. So I stated it the way I did.

I hope that makes sense.

[Brad]

Apr 10, 2014 16:51:31 GMT portofleith said:

Apr 10, 2014 16:31:24 GMT Brad said:

Sure, I just mean if all the ransackings that night are related. There was more than one weirdo out doing this kind of thing, possibly unrelated to each other. I didn't want to say "performed by one guy" because the point of my post was that I think it suggests strongly that there were TWO guys involved in getting all 11 done that night. So I stated it the way I did.

I hope that makes sense.

I think, though, if you look at these clusters, at least four houses were next door to each other.

 In Goleta, GSK broke into five homes, the condo next door, stole the bike at another condo and still had time to kill Offerman Manning.. . . all in just a few hours.

It depends on 2 factors that I am not aware of:

• What is the spread in Goleta? 3 miles? 5 miles? 10 miles?
• How much time was spent at each location (in both Visalia and Goleta).

It is easy to say that they are comparable, but those 2 factors make the water muddy.

As an example, the extensive ransacking that the VR is known for takes a little time. It is not clear to me how much time he spent at each location. It is also not clear how many times he arrived at a home he targeted and found someone home and moved on, if he did not have a lookout. But that would take more time, and decrease the number he could hit in one night.

In Goleta, he broke into an empty condo and stole a bike. Then did a hot prowl. It sounds like a lot on paper, but - depending on the distance between these sites - it lacks the extensive nature of 11 ransackings in homes he somehow knew weren't occupied.

Of course, this debate takes for granted he did not have a lookout in Goleta. There is no way to know.

[t]

Apr 10, 2014 17:12:35 GMT sfbay said:

Apr 9, 2014 2:28:38 GMT t said:

    second guy = lookout

You would swear there would have had to have been a lookout with such a prolific amount of burglaries, right?

I would think VR would have been able to manipulate someone to coming on board, especially at this stage where it was just burglary for profit (and not rape or murder). 

Could "Afraid" have been the lookout? Being "afraid" to come forward due to his/her involvement in the Snelling murder even though Afraid was aware (then) of this out of control progression of his/her friend? Sometimes kids get caught up in things. Afraid may have been scared straight, but in hindsight of the total progression - I would assume Afraid is well dead at this point if so.

                    AFRAID indeed!  i wonder if Gladsby could have been a lookout?