Domingo & Sanchez: Reconstructing the events of 27 July 1981

[debris]

Aug 25, 2013 19:56:00 GMT cerulean said:

Aug 25, 2013 6:31:19 GMT Drifter said:

cerulean wrote:
"So if Sanchez had only popped by that night, why would ONS have been thought to have messed with the lock or window of the bathroom earlier that day ..."
--------------------------------------------------

That's a good point.

It's possible that we have incomplete or misleading info. Truth be known, maybe Sanchez had been to Domingo's home on multiple occasions. Otherwise, your observation conveys the impression that ONS had gleaned inside information about the Sanchez visit. Surely, LE would see the same contradiction you see. Baffling.

Maybe Deb can clarify.

I wasnt implying ONS had any inside info. I just wonder why Pool keeps saying that about the ONS victims when it doesnt seem to apply to this scenario, unless Sanchez had been spending time there or staying there for a few days and ONS kept coming back to the house to peep.  It seems like it would be a big coincidence that he had been peeping on Cheri, and then the night that he planned to tamper with the the bathroom window and attack later, was also the night Sanchez stopped by to spend the night.

 These are questions that have haunted me, rolling around in my head for many years.

Cheri and Greg had been involved "on-again-off-again" for several years.  Summer of '81 they were "off-again".....at least, to my knowledge.  
(That was actually heartbreaking for me.....I loved Greg.  He was always good to my Mom and to me.)  

I had been away from the house for about 2 weeks prior to the murders, so I don't know if Greg had been around the house at all in the weeks leading up to that night.  
I do remember that when I arrived at the crime-scene, I was surprised to see Greg's car in front of the house.  

Investigators have told me that Greg was engaged to another woman, and that he was about to move out-of-state.  They said that he had come to our house that
night to "say goodbye."  Whatever.  I don't know where they got that info or who the other woman was.  And I have not had any contact with Greg's parents
or brothers in all these years, so I don't know whatever their input might have been.  

[dancartell]

While reading the another thread the subject of the LA mag article came up and I found the details of that article interesting yet they left somewhat puzzled about how events unfolded after entered the house Greg & Cheri were in.

The article states some interesting facts mainly (1) Greg fought with EAR (2) the door made a creaking noise on the rug which may have alerted Greg to an intruder (3) there were no signs of Greg ever being bound  and (4) what the neighbor reported hearing Cheri say .....

On the other hand Sudden Terror states that Greg was shot while in the kneeling position and then struck and the way Cheri was bound was quite peculiar .  

I am having trouble reconciling the facts from these two sources becase I am struglling to piece together how the events unfolded once EAR was in the house.  If Greg did fight with EAR as the article states then was this the point were Cheri screamed? How come Greg was shot in the kneeling position if he had fought as the article suggests? If Greg was not tied up as has been suggested could this mean that he confronted EAR before EAR could do his usual routine of making the woman tie up the man?  At what point was Cheri tied up?  The two sources of info have left me puzzled as to exactly how events unfolded .....does anyone have an idea of how the sequence of events unfolded after EAR entered the house because the information in the LA mag article has really left me with more questions than answers and not to mention a whole lot of question marks ..........

[dancartell]

Aug 26, 2013 1:15:22 GMT debris said:

Aug 25, 2013 19:56:00 GMT cerulean said:

I wasnt implying ONS had any inside info. I just wonder why Pool keeps saying that about the ONS victims when it doesnt seem to apply to this scenario, unless Sanchez had been spending time there or staying there for a few days and ONS kept coming back to the house to peep.  It seems like it would be a big coincidence that he had been peeping on Cheri, and then the night that he planned to tamper with the the bathroom window and attack later, was also the night Sanchez stopped by to spend the night.

 These are questions that have haunted me, rolling around in my head for many years.

Cheri and Greg had been involved "on-again-off-again" for several years.  Summer of '81 they were "off-again".....at least, to my knowledge.  
(That was actually heartbreaking for me.....I loved Greg.  He was always good to my Mom and to me.)  

I had been away from the house for about 2 weeks prior to the murders, so I don't know if Greg had been around the house at all in the weeks leading up to that night.  
I do remember that when I arrived at the crime-scene, I was surprised to see Greg's car in front of the house.  

Investigators have told me that Greg was engaged to another woman, and that he was about to move out-of-state.  They said that he had come to our house that
night to "say goodbye."  Whatever.  I don't know where they got that info or who the other woman was.  And I have not had any contact with Greg's parents
or brothers in all these years, so I don't know whatever their input might have been.  

Hi Debbi , its interesting that you raised the issue of the Greg having been said to be about to move out of state , on the old board I read that apparently he was going to take up a position on the east coast .....

I have some questions for you about the house , (1) In the THS documentary you said they didn't let you in and told you it was messy ...... did they eventually let you into after the murders ?

(2)  do you remember any details of what it was like in the bedroom , kitchen or living room?

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

Aug 26, 2013 1:15:22 GMT debris said:

Aug 25, 2013 19:56:00 GMT cerulean said:

I wasnt implying ONS had any inside info. I just wonder why Pool keeps saying that about the ONS victims when it doesnt seem to apply to this scenario, unless Sanchez had been spending time there or staying there for a few days and ONS kept coming back to the house to peep.  It seems like it would be a big coincidence that he had been peeping on Cheri, and then the night that he planned to tamper with the the bathroom window and attack later, was also the night Sanchez stopped by to spend the night.

 These are questions that have haunted me, rolling around in my head for many years.

Cheri and Greg had been involved "on-again-off-again" for several years.  Summer of '81 they were "off-again".....at least, to my knowledge.  
(That was actually heartbreaking for me.....I loved Greg.  He was always good to my Mom and to me.)  

I had been away from the house for about 2 weeks prior to the murders, so I don't know if Greg had been around the house at all in the weeks leading up to that night.  
I do remember that when I arrived at the crime-scene, I was surprised to see Greg's car in front of the house.  

Investigators have told me that Greg was engaged to another woman, and that he was about to move out-of-state.  They said that he had come to our house that
night to "say goodbye."  Whatever.  I don't know where they got that info or who the other woman was.  And I have not had any contact with Greg's parents
or brothers in all these years, so I don't know whatever their input might have been.  

Hi Deb, I don't want to be forward or pushy, but have you ever considered talking to Greg's relatives.  I know it might be very difficult to do, opening old wounds, very touchy subject, painful etc.  but you are a victim and are not an outsider like any of us are.  You should have the right to find out answers to anything you want.  I think LE also owes it to you, that is if you wish to have the information, and now that you are no longer a child, I doubt they would have any problem with giving you information that they don't need to hold back.  Greg's parents and siblings might also want answers.  Maybe something crucial can come of it.  I wonder if Greg could have said anything to one of his relatives about someone that made him uncomfortable for instance.  Offerman and Manning going to a dinner party on that street the night before their murder does not seem like a coincidence to me.  That is an incredible piece of information.  Anyway food for thought.  I always psych myself up to do something difficult by telling myself is that the worst that can happen is that they say no or hang up on me.

Port,  Thank you so much for that information.  As I mentioned above the location of the dinner party is of great interest to me.  Cheri was just house sitting in that neighborhood and would not have been in the neighborhood at the time of O/M I believe, so it seems very improbable that he would have spotted her at that time.  As a matter of fact, I am wondering if the dinner companions of O/M were actually the target, that he came back for them and they were not available targets that night and instead spotted Cheri and Greg.  I wonder if that dinner companion couple could have any incidents or anything to add. 





  

[debris]

Aug 26, 2013 2:35:07 GMT dancartell said:

Aug 26, 2013 1:15:22 GMT debris said:

 These are questions that have haunted me, rolling around in my head for many years.

Cheri and Greg had been involved "on-again-off-again" for several years.  Summer of '81 they were "off-again".....at least, to my knowledge.  
(That was actually heartbreaking for me.....I loved Greg.  He was always good to my Mom and to me.)  

I had been away from the house for about 2 weeks prior to the murders, so I don't know if Greg had been around the house at all in the weeks leading up to that night.  
I do remember that when I arrived at the crime-scene, I was surprised to see Greg's car in front of the house.  

Investigators have told me that Greg was engaged to another woman, and that he was about to move out-of-state.  They said that he had come to our house that
night to "say goodbye."  Whatever.  I don't know where they got that info or who the other woman was.  And I have not had any contact with Greg's parents
or brothers in all these years, so I don't know whatever their input might have been.  

Hi Debbi , its interesting that you raised the issue of the Greg having been said to be about to move out of state , on the old board I read that apparently he was going to take up a position on the east coast .....

I have some questions for you about the house , (1) In the THS documentary you said they didn't let you in and told you it was messy ...... did they eventually let you into after the murders ?

(2)  do you remember any details of what it was like in the bedroom , kitchen or living room?

I was kept completely out of the house for a few days.  My Dad and my maternal Grandmother both came to Goleta.  At some point, it came time for our belongings to be 
packed up & removed from the house.  Mom and I had most of our furniture & household stuff in the garage, as the house was on the market and furnished.  But
our clothing & personal stuff was in our bedrooms, bathrooms, etc.  I don't remember if I was ever allowed past the garage, actually into house, or not.  I am positive 
that I never saw the bedroom or master bath.  I may have been allowed into just the kitchen and up the stairs into the room above the garage, which was my bedroom.  
They probably looked fairly normal to me, but it was creepy, so I didn't study the place.  I just wanted to get our things & get out.  

Sorry.....probably not much help!  

[debris]

Aug 26, 2013 2:52:01 GMT Agent99 aka Sandia said:

Aug 26, 2013 1:15:22 GMT debris said:

 These are questions that have haunted me, rolling around in my head for many years.

Cheri and Greg had been involved "on-again-off-again" for several years.  Summer of '81 they were "off-again".....at least, to my knowledge.  
(That was actually heartbreaking for me.....I loved Greg.  He was always good to my Mom and to me.)  

I had been away from the house for about 2 weeks prior to the murders, so I don't know if Greg had been around the house at all in the weeks leading up to that night.  
I do remember that when I arrived at the crime-scene, I was surprised to see Greg's car in front of the house.  

Investigators have told me that Greg was engaged to another woman, and that he was about to move out-of-state.  They said that he had come to our house that
night to "say goodbye."  Whatever.  I don't know where they got that info or who the other woman was.  And I have not had any contact with Greg's parents
or brothers in all these years, so I don't know whatever their input might have been.  

Hi Deb, I don't want to be forward or pushy, but have you ever considered talking to Greg's relatives.  I know it might be very difficult to do, opening old wounds, very touchy subject, painful etc.  but you are a victim and are not an outsider like any of us are.  You should have the right to find out answers to anything you want.  I think LE also owes it to you, that is if you wish to have the information, and now that you are no longer a child, I doubt they would have any problem with giving you information that they don't need to hold back.  Greg's parents and siblings might also want answers.  Maybe something crucial can come of it.  I wonder if Greg could have said anything to one of his relatives about someone that made him uncomfortable for instance.  Offerman and Manning going to a dinner party on that street the night before their murder does not seem like a coincidence to me.  That is an incredible piece of information.  Anyway food for thought.  I always psych myself up to do something difficult by telling myself is that the worst that can happen is that they say no or hang up on me.

Port,  Thank you so much for that information.  As I mentioned above the location of the dinner party is of great interest to me.  Cheri was just house sitting in that neighborhood and would not have been in the neighborhood at the time of O/M I believe, so it seems very improbable that he would have spotted her at that time.  As a matter of fact, I am wondering if the dinner companions of O/M were actually the target, that he came back for them and they were not available targets that night and instead spotted Cheri and Greg.  I wonder if that dinner companion couple could have any incidents or anything to add. 





  

99- 
Not pushy.  Insightful. 
I would love to talk to Greg's family.  Have been hoping to for many years.  No contact info.  :-(  
I suppose LE may have it.  I haven't asked.  
Thanks for the prompting!  

[debris]

Aug 26, 2013 2:28:28 GMT dancartell said:

While reading the another thread the subject of the LA mag article came up and I found the details of that article interesting yet they left somewhat puzzled about how events unfolded after entered the house Greg & Cheri were in.

The article states some interesting facts mainly (1) Greg fought with EAR (2) the door made a creaking noise on the rug which may have alerted Greg to an intruder (3) there were no signs of Greg ever being bound  and (4) what the neighbor reported hearing Cheri say .....

On the other hand Sudden Terror states that Greg was shot while in the kneeling position and then struck and the way Cheri was bound was quite peculiar .  

I am having trouble reconciling the facts from these two sources becase I am struglling to piece together how the events unfolded once EAR was in the house.  If Greg did fight with EAR as the article states then was this the point were Cheri screamed? How come Greg was shot in the kneeling position if he had fought as the article suggests? If Greg was not tied up as has been suggested could this mean that he confronted EAR before EAR could do his usual routine of making the woman tie up the man?  At what point was Cheri tied up?  The two sources of info have left me puzzled as to exactly how events unfolded .....does anyone have an idea of how the sequence of events unfolded after EAR entered the house because the information in the LA mag article has really left me with more questions than answers and not to mention a whole lot of question marks ..........

 I would be very interested in answers to all of those questions!  Thanks for asking them, Dan.  

---Deb 

[Drifter]

quote from dancartell:
"The two sources of info have left me puzzled as to exactly how events unfolded ....."
----------------------------------------------

Indeed. It can be confusing and frustrating to read different sources and find these gaps in information and/or inconsistencies between the sources. What we really need are the crime reports that were written immediately following these various murders. We're never going to get that of course. So we're kinda left in the dark.

But gaps and inconsistencies in info are not peculiar to the EAR/ONS case. It's true of other cases as well, two of which I have some familiarity with ... the JonBenet Ramsey case and the LISK case. In the former, the gaps and inconsistencies are at least as overwhelming as those in EAR/ONS case.  In most books and articles the author gives a general overview of the crime but a lot of detail is left out.

And to Deb ... a belated welcome.  Thanks very much for joining us!

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

Deb. Great! I am so glad you feel that way. I hope Santa Barbara Sheriff's Office will cooperate and not drag their heels. I hope you don't have to lean on them too much.

I wonder of Detectives Klapakis and Kitsmann (sp?) are still on the case. They were called back from retirement temporarily to work on this case. I hope so and if not there must be some other cold case unit detective that can help. Inv. Pool retired. I think you are stuck with Santa Barbara but possibly if they give you a hard time some other agency can help intercede. Clark in Sacramento? Paul Holes in Contra Costa County? Even Michelle MacNamara, who wrote the L.A. Magazine article, might have some clout and connections to aid you. What about Larry Crompton, do you know how to contact him. I have some contact information that I can give you when I return if you need it. I'm thinking that perhaps some in LE, if not all in LE, won't give you the name of the other couple, but who knows, maybe they will. If not, perhaps they, themselves, will do it. We are paying them to solve crimes and bring justice so I hope they will put in the effort.

Good luck, and God Bless you on whatever you try to do. 99

[debris]

Aug 27, 2013 15:15:39 GMT Agent99 aka Sandia said:

Deb. Great! I am so glad you feel that way. I hope Santa Barbara Sheriff's Office will cooperate and not drag their heels. I hope you don't have to lean on them too much.

I wonder of Detectives Klapakis and Kitsmann (sp?) are still on the case. They were called back from retirement temporarily to work on this case. I hope so and if not there must be some other cold case unit detective that can help. Inv. Pool retired. I think you are stuck with Santa Barbara but possibly if they give you a hard time some other agency can help intercede. Clark in Sacramento? Paul Holes in Contra Costa County? Even Michelle MacNamara, who wrote the L.A. Magazine article, might have some clout and connections to aid you. What about Larry Crompton, do you know how to contact him. I have some contact information that I can give you when I return if you need it. I'm thinking that perhaps some in LE, if not all in LE, won't give you the name of the other couple, but who knows, maybe they will. If not, perhaps they, themselves, will do it. We are paying them to solve crimes and bring justice so I hope they will put in the effort.

Good luck, and God Bless you on whatever you try to do. 99

I'll try to call Klapakis.  I haven't talked to him for awhile.  And I do know how to reach Kitzman, Crompton & McNamara, so I'll bet you're right...I will
surely find some good info.  I just hafta ask the right questions!  

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

Hurray! I'm kind of excited. Maybe you will find a new nugget of information. I'm just wondering if LE went in the wrong direction and missed some lead to follow up on. I'm particularly wondering if they ever considered the framing theory and if the suspects were actually framed and if so who would have framed Glasby and AS to name just two. I am wondering if there could be a common thread there that they didn't look into and instead considered the both of them poi's. The dinner companions is an exciting lead. Good luck!

[rogdomingo]

I'm Roger Domingo, Cheri's ex. I was interrogated (on tape) for hours, in the house, the day after the murders were discovered. Much that the (great) detectives told me was surely fictional, designed to trigger emotional responses. Here is what they did theorize to me that seemed factual: standing footprints deep into the bathroom carpet, indicating long waiting with Cheri & Greg just a couple of feet away; dramatic entrance; Greg reflexively rolling out of bed to confront, and perhaps shot instantly (their rendition to me seemed like "Neighbors heard a shot and a scream"); my visualization of a quick gunshot to a just-rolled_to-his-knees-on-the-floor Greg would yield the same forensics as if he had been ordered to kneel, and then executed; Cheri, after Greg was shot, would predictably have been terrified and compliant. My version seems consistent with the devolving of EAR into ONS as his plans began going awry. Greg's dramatic reaction instead of submission derailed ONS's pattern.

[lepke]

It is good to have you here Roger, and your daughter has also been a welcome addition to the board. Are you aware of Cheri having noticed anything suspicious in the weeks leading up to the attack, or having been anywhere unusual for that matter?

[rogdomingo]

Roger, continuing. Greg was surely incapacitated before Cheri was bound. Unless, unlikely, ONS made her tie herself, he was most likely in a panic after the gunshot and scream in a small-lot, close-packed neighborhood. If Greg was noisy/moving even though head-shot, then perhaps the purpose of tieing Cheri was not his methodic step in his characteristic ritual, but just designed to immobilize her so he could finish off Greg. If those knots were at all complicated, I would ask if they might have been pre-tied and then quickly cinched up at that time.
The detectives took me into the bedroom (again, mostly to note my reactions). They said that the first blow to her head was probably fatal. Extensive weapon castoff blood trails across the ceiling and foot-of-the-bed wall told the ferocity and frequency of the attack.
The fireman husband of her friend down the street made the identification downtown. He told me that he did so confidently, but could not by "Recognition."
My best summary would be that ONS cased the house courtesy of a real estate agent (or using the key box). Detectives thought he may have entered via a distant sliding glass door, but if he had previously left the outside door to the tiny masterbathroom unlocked then that entry would have been easy.
Cheri (and off and on, Deb) lived there alone, and Greg had not been her boyfriend for a very long time. ONS was very likely not expecting to encounter any man that night.
The detectives were looking for a weapon of opportunity and showed me a dust pattern on a garden shelf outside the bedroom/bathroom. Their eyebrows raised when I confidently stated that the missing implement was a square box, foot plunger release diachondra plugger with a 3 foot handle. I pointed to the lush diachondra back lawn and explained that when I was a kid my Dad had an identical lawn and tool.
It wasn't until my presence at home in San Diego at the time of the murders was verified that I was taken off of the very short list of suspects.

[portofleith]

Roger- thank you for participating in what must be a difficult conversation for you and your children. David Witthuhn used to post on another board. He was considered a suspect in his wife's death for several years and it took a great toll on him. I am glad you were eliminated quickly, but viewing the crime scene could not have been pleasant.

GSK did usually arrive at crime scenes with pre-tied ligatures and not just a few. He sometimes, in Sacramento, left behind a dozen or more knotted ligatures at his crime scenes(usually shoe laces). Your observation about GSK tying Cheri, to immobilize her while he finished killing Rick is very probable. GSK couldn't risk a second gunshot, as he had done in the Offerman Manning murders.

Do you know if Cheri and others dwelling in that neighborhood knew that there had been three murders and one couples attack in the not so distant past?