First Set (Format Changes Completed)

[Drifter]

Topic: Mather Air Force Squadron Units

Poster: Archangel76

------------------------------------------


485th EIG vs 320th SPS

The witness identified the dragon on the 485th EIG unit patch as being "exactly" like the one she saw on the jacket of the 3rd suspect (the enhanced composite sketch). She did not identify the patch but rather the dragon on the patch. That is an important point that needs to be made. She was NEVER shown a patch from the 320th Security Police Squadron (because I do not think that the investigators had found one back in 1978).

Compare the griffin on the 320th patch with the dragon on the 485th patch. Based on the fact that Sgt. Maggiore worked with military personnel from the 323rd -AND- the 320th Security Police Squadrons, I believe that there is a high degree of likelihood that the patch that the witness saw was from the 320th SPS not the 485th EIG.

Notwithstanding that Suspect #2 was from the 320th -AND- lived in an apartment WEST on Capitales. But, that would be too easy wouldn't it...

Does anyone doubt that if the witness was shown ONLY the 320th patch that she would have said it looked like the "dragon" that she saw on the suspect's jacket? NO ONE from the 320th (with maybe one exception) was questioned during the 1978 investigation including Suspect #2 even after his name was mentioned twice during the course of the investigation. I have no explanation as to why that was. (Conspiracy theorists feel free to opine).

485th Unit Patch320th Dragon Patch

Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago

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Recent Replies

Response from Smitty2011

What if
If the Maggiores were being stalked that eve, then why ? Personally I don't know much about their case other thann what I have read here, and a few other articles. But it seems that someone wanted them dead. Why ? And if so a good way to frame someone else is to leave some shoelaces or something related to the ongoing ear case that was gripping the area. If I wanted to kill them then this cover would help keep investigators looking. Again from memory I don't know when ear start bringing his own bindings to crimes but I know many crimes he used items from the home and used various knots. The sheer fact that shoelaces were found would make investigators think ear, possibly. I don't tknow but he EAR just doesn't fit the accomplice mo. But maybe it was his attempt to throw LE off. That doesn't make sense to me, but again, what does.
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By Smitty2011

Response from ZForce

What I don't understand is if you wanted them dead why attack them in public? Wouldn't an organized offender who'd premeditated the crime choose a more discreet way to carry it out?
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By ZForce

Response from Smitty2011

Agree
Why not just sneak into their home at night and execute them ? Again sorry that sounds callous. But it's hard for me to speculate when I don't know more about their backgrounds etc. Uunless someone was after them, Mr. Maggiore spotted this person who he thought may have been after him which left that person no chance but finish the job then and there
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By Smitty2011
Member
2 years ago
107 Posts

Response from Archangel76

Smitty2011,

As mentioned in previous posts, there was a $300 million dollar drug smuggling ring operating out of Mather AFB (as well as other airbases). There were rumors circulating through the base that Sgt. Maggiore was an undercover operative responsible for drug busts on other bases. That, alone, would have been sufficient to make him a target. Elements of the 320th Security Police Squadron had to have been complicit in the smuggling operation (or they were totally incompetent idiots which I am not willing to believe).

Less than a year later, there were drug arrests at Mather. The arrests came because of an undercover operation. The undercover operative had to be transferred from the base for his own safety.

Means, motive and opportunity. It is all here. The reason that no one sees it is because everyone believes that the EAR, alone, committed the murders. As SammyT said, either the EAR had an accomplice or he didn't commit these murders at all. The skewed continuum of violence suggests the latter.
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Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76

Response from Archangel76

The Maggiores lived in an apartment complex. The chances were great that someone would see the perps if they attempted to commit the murders where the Maggiores lived. Sgt. Maggiore was due to ship out to Germany shortly before he and Katie were murdered. Many people in the neighborhood knew that they walked their dog almost every night. They walked a predictable path except the night that they were killed. They doubled back and went a different way suggesting that they knew they were being stalked. Something (no doubt the two killers) blocked them from returning home via their normal route.

There was a two to three minute window from when the witness saw Mr. Leather Jacket and Mr. Ski Jacket and when the Maggiores were shot. There were witnesses outside everywhere except where the Maggiores were shot. The killers realized this and took the opportunity. It was then or never.
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Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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Response from DanCartell

And there is very little if any, evidence of EAR having worked with someone.........
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By DanCartell

Response from Archangel76

If The EAR Was Involved...

And there is very little if any, evidence of EAR having worked with someone.........

DC,

If the EAR was involved in the murder of the Maggiores, this probably would have been a one time thing (working with an accomplice). The accomplice can't say anything because he would incriminate himself in a double-homicide (much like Hirschfield's brother).
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Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76

Response from SammyT

The accomplice probably also wouldn't have known that he was paired up with the EAR.


My gut feeling (not the best way to play detective I know!) says that the EAR did not commit these murders - as Arch says, the continuum of violence is skewed - although if EAR was one of the hitmen then it tells us a lot about our 'deserving pest'.

If EAR was involved then he was not a mild-mannered, seemingly passive, suburban nobody; but more likely a 'macho' type with possible links to the drug trade/organised crime.

After all, you woudn't go and recruit your accountant or bank manager to take part in a 'hit' would you?!

Slightly off topic, I also feel that the continuum of violence is mighty skewed IF EAR was also the VR.

I have always been part of the VR=EAR crew, but am now having some serious doubts...

...it doesn't seem like many here agree (and I may well be wrong) but just look at how other 'official' explanations have proven to be incorrect in this case.
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Edited by SammyT, 2 years ago
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By SammyT

Response from Archangel76

EAR Involvement

If we simply look at the Maggiore murders (as well as Snelling) as separate homicides without factoring the EAR into the equation, our perception of the case will be much more objective. If the EAR was involved, by solving the Maggiore murders (separate from the EAR/ONS case), the EAR/ONS case will also be solved. If the EAR was not involved in the Maggiore homicides, then we will continue to miss critical evidence pointing to the real perpetrators. This is true in the Snelling case as well.
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Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76

[Drifter]

Topic: German Shepherd Dog

Poster: watermokasin3

-----------------------------------

a couple things

The first rape victim, said after she was attacked EAR was ransacking for quite awhile and at one point heard alot of whispering, and then a louder whisper say "I told you to shutup" Now was there another person with EAR? Or he was talking to himself? We'll never know i guess.

Im also wondering what is going on with the german Shepherd dog story when someone ranag a persons doorbell and told them his German Shepherd was stabbed and asked to use the phone.. a man picks him and his dog up and the next day the person returns and thanks him for letting him use his phone, and then later gets a red rose in the mail. What was that about?? I reread it a couple times but it did not make sense, if the book was trying to say that was ONS ringing the doorbell, or maybe ONS stabbed the dog? I wasnt sure what the book was alluding to.

Response from DanCartell

SOE

You would fail at the academy for reading writing styles, and judging who wrote what. I am not Alicia; and I think that should be obvious. I appreciate the fact that you have so much extra time on your hands; it has made looking up this case very easy due to the archives.
I am related to this case through the victims and would have been around 3 at the time. My POIs are in their 50s and considered VERY good suspects. However Alicia does give examples of odd things EAR ONS does do such as taking a screen out, and leaving it half way on with one tab pull out and one left in. It caught my attention and I will explain why later. I do not think her POI is the EAR ONS, but do think she has had a run in with something similar.
Please don't get so rigid as to be boring, and unable to think outside the box. I don't want to picture you as the freaky English/film teacher wearing the tweed jacket with the leather elbows ... I love the different people who contribute here with different skills, talents, and ideas. I also appreciate your archives, and correcting points that are not correct per the archives least anyone else get carried away with creative license.

Response from DanCartell

Thanks, tracks at the actual crime scenes could have been left by any dog who followed the perps scent. And the EAR-ONS left so many gates open that dogs could easily wander around at night.
Some dogs he "liked" or were of no threat to him and others were beaten to death or stabbed.Anyone know when the dog beating happened in Sacramento.Did it precede VR's emergence in April of '74?
you know I am also fascinated by that fact some dogs this guy liked and others he meted harsh treatment them. What breeds were the dogs that were harmed?

Response from SpeakelOfEngrish

The dog beaten to death in Goleta was a poodle.
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Response from f1guyus
Poodles
Not a surprise EAR would beat a poodle to death. Despite being wonderful dogs they are symbols of all the stuff EAR was thumbing his nose at. Like the rest of us. Oughta burn him alive just for the dogs he killed

[Drifter]

Topic: Theory Of EAR/ONS's Background

Poster: Greg
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A Theory from the United Kingdom

Hi, All,

I was aware of the case of EAR / ONS through various stories I have seen in the media here in the UK, but it wasn't until I found this forum that I realised how the case is still actively pursued.

If I can put my thoughts in to the case, having read a lot of articles /interviews/theories/ and seen a number of documentaries, this is the kind of offender we are dealing / or have dealt with:

1) EAR / ONS must come from a wealthy or affluent background. This is the first step in determining how he could have the lifestyle he did in order for him to carry out his crimes. He has access to a fund or family money which allowed him to do as he did.

2) EAR / ONS lives or lived in both the Sacramento and Ventura areas at some point.

3) EAR / ONS was abused by a female as a youth or humilated by a female at some stage leading to his intense rage against females. This may explain the plate / crockery stacking on the male victims as this had been done to him as a child / youth.

4) He may not have had a Military / Air Force backgrond as the Boy Scouts of America teach members how to tie a "diamond knot"

5) If he was / is from an affluent family they may be covering his tracks

6) He has or has had submissive partners who covered his lifestyle and sexual preferences up.

7) He would never commit suicide as his ego would never let this happen

8) He may have been killed or died through (not a related style attack) but an attempt to try and stalk or force himself upon a woman (unlikely as I believe he is still alive)

9) He could stop and is gloating over his "fame", and has "created" a perfect life for himself as a husband and father, but still looks upon his hidden trophies he stole from his victims.

Edited by greg26011979, 1 year ago
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By greg26011979

Response from Friday

Re: Re: Re: A Theory from the United Kingdom
Posted By: greg26011979
Posted By: Samk
It would be good. We have been also working with a 1970s' sexuality perspective. So a current sexuality Professor will also be good. .
We have nothing to lose. As I stated before (and before Drifter shot me down) identifying the exact type of person our killer was in the 1970's may jog peoples memories. It may be the case that some think that no one has come forward as "he was a loner", but I truly believe that that was not the case and someone somewhere will have their memory jogged and provide a further insight. If Dr. Canter can help, why not?

Heck it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out EAR/ONS personality. He's a (BWh). Ya, this might upset him if he reads this but that's my opinion.

Edited by Friday, 1 year ago
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By Friday

Response from LFL

Now why would you think EAR is looking at the A&E site. What thread of evidence would make you even consider EAR looks at this site? I think it would be a stretch if EAR would take the chance of putting his IP address on this site where LE could follow the trail. Next, why do you have sympathy for EAR's feelings? That is weird.
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Edited by LFL, 1 year ago
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By LFL

[Drifter]

Topic: Irvine Geography Of Cruz Murder (Bullwinkle's)

Poster: Aaron Timones
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Mr. EAR-ONS Lives/Lived In IRVINE, Orange County, California

Janelle Cruz worked as a cashier at Bullwinkle's Restaurant, which was located at 14100 Culver Drive in Irvine (off the I-5 on-ramp).

Let's assume, for a moment, that the EAR-ONS first encountered Cruz at Bullwinkle's while patronizing the restaurant, perhaps with his family. This assumption is not necessary to consider the following, but it makes it more compelling.

The linear (not walking or driving) distance from Bullwinkle's restauant to the Cruz residence is 1.28 miles. The linear distance from the Cruz residence to the Witthuhn residence is... 1.28 miles. The linear distance of Bullwinkle's to the Witthuhn residence is 1.11 miles.

The three points are almost equidistant, forming an almost perfect equilateral triangle.

Did the EAR-ONS reside somewhere within that triangle?

- Mr. SpeakelOfEngrish

__________________________________________



This is one of the most important posts on this message board in recent times.

To get a better image of this triangulation, visit the map that Mr. Akwilks posted
at this link:

community.aetv.com/_Janelle-Cruz-Workplace-to-Cruz-Home-to-Witthuhn-Homejpg/photo/10774156/119137.html?enlarge=true

Now.....

What is so special about this triangulation?

What makes it different from the other Original Night Stalker crimes... some of which
were close together?

I think the answer to this question has to do with that strange 5 year gap.

Mr. EAR-ONS killed Ms. Manuella Witthuhn in IRVINE on February 5, 1981... then
followed it up with the Sanchez/Domingo murder over in Goleta on July 27, 1981....

And then....

He took the next 5 years off....

As everyone knows, after 5 years he killed in IRVINE again... and then back into
hibernation he went.

I feel Ms. Janelle Cruz's murder.... where she lived..... where she worked..... and
Ms. Witthuhn's murder and place of residence..... all these elements hold the
key to getting as close as anyone can ever hope to get to Mr. EAR-ONS.

The Cruz/Bullwinkle Restaurant/Witthuhn Connection has 3 very special elements
that represent THE LAST KNOWN EXISTENCE - in terms of crimes, anyway - of
Mr. EAR-ONS....

These 2 murders have a strange anomalous quality to them.... a quality that
would not have caught my attention if Mr. EAR-ONS had not decided to kill
there after 5 years.

If he had struck in Goleta in 1986 and ended it there, I'd have thought Goleta was
the place to look....

The fact that he chose to kill Ms. Cruz in IRVINE.... and chose her after those 5
years had elapsed tells me that there is something about IRVINE.... something
different from all that came before it.

I think Mr. EAR-ONS was living in very very very very very very
close proximity to Ms. Cruz and, consequently, also very near to
Ms. Witthuhn.

I repeat, IRVINE would NOT stick out in my mind if Mr. EAR-ONS hadn't waited
5 years to strike there again.

Why there after 5 years? Why IRVINE? Why not Dana Point again? Why not Goleta?

What is so special about IRVINE??

Perhaps after July 27, 1981.... his raping and murdering became sidelined by
something to do with employment, family, disability, or a combination of some
of those things.

As other posters mentioned.... Ms. Cruz's murder was probably spurred on by
some "stressor".... something in Mr. EAR-ONS life triggered him and compelled
him to do "it" one more time.....

Let's say that's true... don't know if it is, obviously, but let's say it is for the sake
of this post....

What if after 5 years, Mr. EAR-ONS became a little rusty with his old methods of
surveillance... following a potential victim.... the time and dedication it would
take to ascertain how many other people lived in the potential victim's house....
what their schedules were, etc., etc.

What if those 5 years made him a bit uncoordinated?

Well, how about this........

Maybe Ms. Janelle Cruz was chosen because she was an "easy" target, i.e., she
lived close enough so that he didn't have to travel a long distance.... she lived
right in Mr. EAR-ONS backyard, so to speak.

Is it possible that Mr. EAR-ONS didn't live in IRVINE and was merely passing
through on some business back in 1986 and decided to do another a murder for
old time's sake?

I don't know.... I don't think so..... the time it would take him to familiarize himself
with Ms. Cruz's residence and also with how many people were living in the house
and whatever other important information he would need in order to know he could
strike and get away with it makes me think he had a permanent residence in
IRVINE.... or was in IRVINE in 1986 for a prolonged period of time even though
he wasn't living there... although, I don't know if I believe that....

Mr. EAR-ONS may have moved a long time ago or may still be IRVINE..... but I
think that Mr. EAR-ONS was definitely living in IRVINE sometime between
1981 - 1986.

A geographic profile should be commissioned based on Mr. SpeakelOfEngrish's
triangulation of -

1) Ms. Janelle Cruz's Residence

2) Bullwinkle Restaurant

3) Ms. Manuella Witthuhn's Residence.

There is something "telling" about these 2 crime scenes and that restaurant.

Has anyone focused any kind of intense research in IRVINE, specifically around
this triangulated area?

Furthermore, has anyone found any suspect(s) who lived in Carmichael or
Citrus Heights between 1976 - 1978 and then moved to IRVINE and remained
there between 1981 - 1986?

Nothing in this post is written in stone, of course.... but just something to think
about.... perhaps others have already thought about it and have come up with
some interesting suspects.


Edited by AaronTimones, 2 years ago
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By AaronTimones

Response from watch

Re: Mr. EAR-ONS Lives/Lived In IRVINE, Orange County, California
I personally think It doesn't necessarily mean anything that he committed the last crime in Irvine. He might have picked someone there to murder because it was 100 miles from his home and he was familiar with Irvine- having stalked there before. Southern California has many cities and communities close to each other.

Edited by watch, 3 years ago
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By watch

Response from conquistador1521

EAR in IRVINE
I agree with you Aaron. I believe that EAR lived in the Irvine area probably between 1981-1986, after that who knows? I think one of the main clues that EAR lived in Irvine was both killings in 1981 and 1986 were single homicides. EAR had a habit of attacking couples and he knew that LE knew that as well. The murder/rape home invasion of a couple is extremely rare and would create a lot of undue attention from other out of county agencies (an MO Sacramento or Contra Costa County might be looking for..However, the homicide and or rape of a single woman is far more common. I think that one of the reasons for the lack of attacking couples was another way to throw off the police. EAR did not want to anyway come on the radar of any LE agency that might try to link crimes. Goleta had couples attacks, Dana Point couples attacs and Verntura County had couples attacked, but not Irvine? Coincidence, I dont think so.

By conquistador1521

Re: Re: Mr. EAR-ONS Lives/Lived In IRVINE, Orange County, California
Posted By: watch

Response from Aaron Timones

Hello, Mr. Watch, sir.

I have an extreme amount of sympathy for your point of view, sir.

I don't know if I can be that quick to be dismissive, though.

I mean, I know it's just a theory... but if one is to dismiss this theory... then
anything can be dismissed before any adequate research can be done.

How can anyone know the truth or falsity of a thing without first looking into it?

I am cynical, too, Mr. Watch.

You are right... there are many cities and communities in Southern California.... but
these victims and where they lived.... just MAY mean something.... I mean, I know
it might not mean nothing... I'll give you that, sir.

But I feel there is a reason Mr. EAR-ONS chose the victims he chose.

His victims were apart of a selection and design known only to him.

If we can train ourselves to recognize patterns and motifs.... perhaps the logic
behind that selection and design will come to the fore....

Unfortunately, this is as good as it gets.

I wish there was more to go on......

Aaron

By AaronTimones

Response from conquistador1521

Locating EAR
Someone on this Board needs to figure out how we research who lived in the Irvine neighborhood around the time of the Cruz murder. We need to focus on this if we are to get anywhere.

By conquistador1521

Response from watch

Re: Mr. EAR-ONS Lives/Lived In IRVINE, Orange County, California
Aaron, I agree with you completely ... Except that I think sometimes we limit ourselves to a narrative that we think provides a solution to things we do not understand. My main point is that while many have the opinion that he lived where the first crime happened or he lived where the last crime happened, it is just conjecture. We don't know, so let's not exclude other possibilities. You may very well be right. I just think we armchair detectives would not want to limit our possibilities. That is all Mr. Aaron.

Edited by watch, 3 years ago
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By watch

Response from Breccia

Property Records are Public Records

To chain back the title records you :
1. take the address you're interested in to the county tax record office (usually in courthouse)
2. they will give you the name of the current owner (party paying the property tax)
3. enter this name into vendor (seller) vendee (buyer) records going successive back to the date of your interest. Vendor/Vendee records will be in the courthouse near the tax assessor's office.
..............................................
Problems with this:
Time consuming, there are hundreds of homes in this area
House may not belong to the EAR. [for example the house I live in now was purchased by my husband in 2009. My name is not mentioned in the public records.]
Of course the EAR may have been staying, briefly, with the home owner of record for time periods in 1981 and 86. EAR may have worked in a business around the equilateral triangle area and commuted quite a distance to get there. The possibilities go on and on.

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By Breccia

Response from akwilks

Re: Mr. EAR-ONS Lives/Lived In IRVINE, Orange County, California

This is the triangle of which Aaron speaks, I think it was first noted by SOE.

Janelle Cruz Workplace to Cruz Home to Witthuhn Home.jpg


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By akwilks


Response from watch

Re: Mr. EAR-ONS Lives/Lived In IRVINE, Orange County, California
Mr. Aaron,
I do think you are absolutely correct on the account that he chose his victims less than randomly ( especially the murder victims).'I think he chose women that resembled a certain ideal of his, perhaps a girlfriend that broke up with him or something. The other thing that has been brought to attention before is that these women ( in the later part of earons's murdering career) represented an ideal of physical characteristics as well as having success in their ambitions and drives to the point that many had articles ( including Ms. Janelle) in the newspaper about their achievements.

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By watch

Response from conquistador1521

What about a telephone Book??
The time period we need to focus on is pre-internet. Telephone books were still used in the 1980's. The White Pages I believe listed residential names and addresses. Is there anyway maybe at a local library, community center, church anything that might have old telephone books lying around. Maybe that information in cached some where by the telephone book company??

By conquistador1521

Response from Breccia

more useful than the phone book
may be 'cross directories.'
At any rate these books have names, phone#, addresses listed categorically.
So successive addresses, say 34 Columbus..33 Columbus, would be listed with names and phone#s following.
I recall my father using one of these in the early 90s, inviting our neighbors to a party.
Of course phone#s could be 'unlisted', so no name would be available for that address.

By Breccia
Member

Response from Aaron Timones

Mr. Watch

Hello, Mr. Watch, sir.

When it comes to the tantalizing nature of this case and the elusivity of Mr.
EAR-ONS, never in a million would I ever be so bold as to say DEFINITIVELY
that Mr. EAR-ONS lived here or there or what have you.

I know that sounds like a contradiction given the nature of my above
post... but I try to be as confident in proposing a theory while paradoxically
admitting at the end of the day that.... I don't know if anything I propose
or theorize will be correct, you know what I mean, sir?

I ended my post by saying nothing I said in my theory is set in stone... all
I am trying to do with my IRVINE POST is do exactly what you said, Mr.
Watch... and that is to consider a possibility.

The problem with my above post is it sounds like I am saying everything in it
is factual... sorry to anyone who reads it that way... my enthusiasm
sometimes gets the better of me is all. But anyway, my above post is really
just one thing and nothing more - a consideration of a possibility among
a multitude of other possibilities.

This case is so frustrating for so many people and for so many reasons that
when one theory is presented, I can see how desperate other people can be
to be eager to include the other 10,000 other theories.... I feel that desperation
myself.... and, yes, at the end of the day everything I stated in my above post
may be 100% dead wrong. I'll be the first to admit that - and gladly. It's
good to be told that there are other ways of looking at things... it opens
up the doors of perception...

I apologize to all if my above post came off sounding like the Gospel Truth.
I was merely stating a theory with a lot of confidence behind it that can be
mistaken for fact... again, nothing I said in my above post is fact - ALL OF
IT IS CONJECTURE.

For future reference, if it should occur that I make another post that comes
off sounding like I am immovable in my theory, I apologize in advance...
I actually am in favor of including and talking about any and all other
possibilities about Mr. EAR-ONS.... the catch-22 is when you present one
theory you'll have numerous other posters reminding you of other
theories.... which is a good thing.... because all of those theories
are just as valid as anything else.

In any case, I just want you to know, Mr. Watch, that I am not a snob to
other theories or anything.... as a matter of fact.... if you stop and think
about it.... Mr. Akwilks and Mr. SpeakelOfEngrish kind of set the foundation
for 99.9% of what I wrote.... all I did was open it up to a new thread....

Anyway... I'm going to try to go back in time... look at whatever public
records I can look at... I am going to look for all persons with the following
profile:


- resided in IRVINE between 1981 - 1986... may still reside there

- WHITE MALE

- 28 - 35 years old in 1981

- Brown hair or Blonde hair

- Hazel Eyes or Blue Eyes

- size 9 shoes

- known to be athletic, maybe possessing a jogger's physique

- owned a German Shepherd

- ant-social, yet courteous.... introverted, yet always willing to lend a
helping hand


By the way... I don't know how the hell I am going to find out some of these
particulars, but whatever... gotta try.....

And that's it.

Aaron


Edited by AaronTimones, 3 years ago

Response from Aaron Timones

Another reason for the whole "Mr. EAR-ONS lives/lived in IRVINE" Theory is that
I have recently been kind of obsessed with this whole thing involving coveting what
you see.... and coveting it enough BECAUSE you see it everyday... or.... if not
everyday.... enough that you see it A LOT, you know what I mean?

How do you begin to covet? You begin to covet what you see... because what
you see.... is in close proximity for you to see.... maybe on a daily
basis.... maybe once a week.... perhaps even once or twice a month...

Aaron

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By AaronTimones

Response from hubertj2

Re:

I definitely agree with speakel, aaron, and conquistador and it is worth looking into.
while it may seem too obvious that he lived in irvine or too simple, is it really? would it have been then? before dna? before le had linked the crimes? i am sure le interviewed people in the neighborhood but what if ear just didn't fit their profile (he could have been as old as 35 at this point, maybe married, job). if they knew they were looking for a serial killer would that have changed who they suspected? I'd love to know who else they looked at for that homicide besides the bf and what their impressions of the crime were. interesting thing i read about the cruz homicide in the florida profile of ear: her wrists showed signs of being bound but not her ankles. did he just not feel he needed to bind her ankles or was he deliberately leaving that out so it looked different to investigators? just thinking out loud here...

Edited by hubertj2, 3 years ago
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By hubertj2

Re: Property Records are Public Records
Posted By: Breccia

To chain back the title records you :
1. take the address you're interested in to the county tax record office (usually in courthouse)
2. they will give you the name of the current owner (party paying the property tax)
3. enter this name into vendor (seller) vendee (buyer) records going successive back to the date of your interest. Vendor/Vendee records will be in the courthouse near the tax assessor's office.
..............................................
Problems with this:
Time consuming, there are hundreds of homes in this area
House may not belong to the EAR. [for example the house I live in now was purchased by my husband in 2009. My name is not mentioned in the public records.]
Of course the EAR may have been staying, briefly, with the home owner of record for time periods in 1981 and 86. EAR may have worked in a business around the equilateral triangle area and commuted quite a distance to get there. The possibilities go on and on.

Response from Aaron Timones

Hello, Ms. Breccia, ma'am.

Thank you for your wonderful post, Ms. Breccia.

Looking at properties going all the way back from 1981 - 1986.... yes, that's going
to be very, very nerve-wracking.

I wish Mr. Kim Rossmo or Ms. Pat Brown would come and look at the triangulation
on Mr. Akwilks map and then make a more detailed geographic profile based on
this information.

Mr. Rossmo has a formula for geographic profiling... I tried looking at it, but it
gave me a headache. Here's the link to his formula:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rossmo's_formula

And another thing.... what if Mr. EAR-ONS was living in an apartment in IRVINE?

Perhaps we should try to find apartment complexes that allowed tenants to
have dogs.... we'd be concentrating on apartment complexes between 1981 - 1986.

Finding apartment complexes that fit this criteria would be no less tedious than
the houses angle... but someone somewhere between 1981 - 1986 has got to
remember an anti-social fella who always went jogging with his German Shepherd
dog in IRVINE.

Aaron

P.S.

Mr. Akwilks, sir, thank you for posting that map. It is my humble opinion
that the answer to this case is embedded in that map, a key to unlocking this
whole thing... I don't know what that answer is yet... more research for the
time being.....

Edited by AaronTimones, 3 years ago
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By AaronTimones

Response from Aaron Timones

Mr. Rossmo's Link
Sorry, but it appears the Kim Rossmo link does not work... if anyone is interested
in Mr. Rossmo's Formula for Geographic Profiling, just go to Google, type in
GEOGRAPHIC PROFILING... go to Wikipedia.... scroll to the bottom... look
under the SEE ALSO section where it will say ROSSMO'S FORMULA... click
that link and everything should be just fine.

Thank you.

Profile Image
By AaronTimones

Response from hdmi

Witthuhn
And you can't brush aside the fact that he left the T.V. against the fence in the witthuhn crime.
Went farther out of his way to misdirect there that any other crime scene.

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By hdmi

Response from guessting

SACRAMENTO vs. all other jurisdictions
The only location I feel certain that EAR resided in is Sacramento. If you cannot put him is Sacramento I have a hard time looking at him seriously. He may or may not of resided in some of the other jurisdictions. But there is no doubt he was in Sacramento. Someone has a suspect that they are trying to fit in Sac. but he was never here. You cannot make a serious case against a POI if he was never here. I hope you understand the gist of this post..g

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By guessting

PS
The greater Sacramento area includes Carmichael, Citrus Heights, Fair Oaks, Orangevale, Rancho Cordova, and a variety of others. g

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By guessting
Member
3 years ago

Response from Arbed

RE: Living in Sac

What if they never obtained a license, never applied for utilities, and/or lived with someone? I actually lived in a city for almost a year that never shows up on any internet search engine -- because of all those reasons.

Not that I am disagreeing with you that he PROBABLY did live in Sac, as well as Irvine. Proving it however --- well, there's the rub...


Edited by Arbed, 3 years ago
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By Arbed

Response from lawstudent1

The Triangle Angle

I think some very interesting points have been brought up.

However, I'm not too sold on the triangle angle yet. This is because a lot of discussion has been made about Bullwinkle's. What's the big deal with Bullwinkles anyway? I know that Janelle worked there, but besides that, why is it significant? I'm not saying that ONS didn't frequent there, I'm just saying that other points in the triangle could be plotted in Irvine. For instance, didn't Manuela Witthuhn work at a bank? Where is the point for that on the map? Didn't Patrice Harrington work at a hospital in Irvine? Where is the point for that on the map? Didn't Keith Harrington attend UC Irvine? Where is the point for that? How about the pool that Janelle was at where a previous poster mentioned that he saw her talking to the Kitten Man. Do you see where I am going with this? I'm not saying that the triangle angle is not interesting, I'm just saying that the shape can be manipulated based on different Irvine locations. I just don't see any real significance with Bullwinkle's yet and I am wondering if I'm missing something. Besides, it does seem a little cliche that ONS, whether deliberately or accidently, would commit crimes within a triangle and seems more fitting in a Hollywood movie plot ("The Triangle Killer").

My question for a long time has been why ONS traveled all the way back to Goleta in July of 1981? I thought Conquistador offered great insight on this:

"I think one of the main clues that EAR lived in Irvine was both killings in 1981 and 1986 were single homicides. EAR had a habit of attacking couples and he knew that LE knew that as well. The murder/rape home invasion of a couple is extremely rare and would create a lot of undue attention from other out of county agencies (an MO Sacramento or Contra Costa County might be looking for..However, the homicide and or rape of a single woman is far more common. I think that one of the reasons for the lack of attacking couples was another way to throw off the police. EAR did not want to anyway come on the radar of any LE agency that might try to link crimes. Goleta had couples attacks, Dana Point couples attacs and Verntura County had couples attacked, but not Irvine? Coincidence, I dont think so."

I don't think so either.

As far as the TV in the Witthuhn case being up against the fence, many have said that this was signs of ONS staging the crime scene. This could be the case, but I don't understand on why would he try and make it look like a burglary by removing the tv, when it was easily spotted in the backyard? I feel that the TV served more of a practical purpose by allowing ONS to use it stand up on in order to boost himself over the fence.

I do feel that ONS lived and possibly still lives in Irvine. I'm just not sure about the triangle yet, but it is an angle worth looking into (are you all getting tired of my puns yet?). I think that all the above plots I mentioned should be posted on a map - this might give us a more detailed picture and one odd shape at that.

Edited by lawstudent1, 3 years ago
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By lawstudent1

[Drifter]

Topic: "Jack Neal"

Poster: Aaron Timones

--------------------------------------

"Jack Neal" - East Area Rapist Suspect

On January 24, 1977 -

The East Area Rapist claimed his 12th Victim, a lone 25 year old female.



On January 25, 1977 -

At around 8:20 PM, the Sacramento Sheriff’s Department
received a call from Dick Cable, the newscaster for
KXTV Channel 10, a Sacramento television station.

Dick Cable advised that the television station switchboard
operator received an anonymous phone call from a male subject
stating that the East Area Rapist was a Jack Neal.

The subject immediately hung up. No information of any
kind could be located on a Jack Neal by the investigators.

This information can be found in -

Chapter 20

Page 177



Was this a prank phone call? Was the name misheard?

Could "Jack Neal" be "John Neal" like John F. Kennedy was

called Jack Kennedy, you know what I mean? And the last

name? How do they know to spell it N-E-A-L. Could it not

have been Nell? Or how about some strange spelling like

Nhell or something? The permutations are endless.

Jack Nell? John Nell? Jack Nhell? John Nhell? How about

Jack Nail? John Nail? Johnny Nell? Jack Nelle?



Was there a Jack Neal stationed at Mathers? Was the Mathers

angle checked out or just regular civilians?



Aaron

By AaronTimones

Recent Replies

Response from hdmi

jackson neal
Or it could have been an alias, Jackson Neal

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By hdmi

Response from f1guyus

Scores to settle

You can bet that a lot of tips the police and the media got were from disgruntled ex's or from someone who didn't like the boss or some other personal reason. It's one of the banes of LE in cases like this. And the cause of a lot of wasted effort on their part.

Also correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the preface to "Sudden Terror" state that with the exception of the police officers with whom Det. Crompton actually had contact with all the names in the book are ficticious? I know the victims names are.
Flag

Edited by f1guyus, 3 years ago
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By f1guyus

Response from Aaron Timones

Pseudonyms
Hello, Mr. f1guyus, sir.

You're right and I am very much aware of the fact that names have been changed.

However, when I refer to people from SUDDEN TERROR, I can only refer to
the pseudonyms that Mr. Crompton uses for the real people.

Each pseudonym corresponds to a REAL PERSON. And I am assuming that
Mr. Crompton and Law Enforcement are aware of the real people that each
pseudonym corresponds to.

So, even though the name JACK NEAL is used.... I'm sure the real name is known
by Mr. Crompton and others.

So, I still think it's important to refer to the real people even with those fake names.

And that's it, Mr. figuyus.

Thank you.

Aaron

PS

As for the disgruntled ex angle... it's unfortunate, but, yes, I agree with you.
When a case like this comes up, it attracts some very crazy people.

Every single passage in SUDDEN TERROR that deals with psychics
writes all of them off as insane.


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By AaronTimones

Response from clarice

How close are the names?
Could it be Neil and this person goes by that instead of a hard to pronounce last name. Is the name changed completely like John Smith, to Jack Neil?

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By clarice

Response from Peterlee

Re: "Jack Neal" - East Area Rapist Suspect
I looked up the name Jack Neal in google images. I saw some interesting people. One person worked in Hospital administration and studied at UC Berkley. Another person is a doctor who was in the military.
Flag


By Peterlee

Response from Peterlee

Re: "Jack Neal" - East Area Rapist Suspect
Sorry guys I made a mistake he is into injury compensation not hospital administration. Probably not the ear/ons.

By Peterlee

Response from thelostsock

Jack Neal or Jack and Neal?

Jack Neal" - East Area Rapist Suspect

On January 24, 1977 -

The East Area Rapist claimed his 12th Victim, a lone 25 year old female.

On January 25, 1977 -

At around 8:20 PM, the Sacramento Sheriff’s Department
received a call from Dick Cable, the newscaster for
KXTV Channel 10, a Sacramento television station.

Dick Cable advised that the television station switchboard
operator received an anonymous phone call from a male subject
stating that the East Area Rapist was a Jack Neal.

The subject immediately hung up. No information of any
kind could be located on a Jack Neal by the investigators.

This information can be found in -

Chapter 20

Page 177

Was this a prank phone call? Was the name misheard?

Could "Jack Neal" be "John Neal" like John F. Kennedy was

called Jack Kennedy, you know what I mean? And the last

name? How do they know to spell it N-E-A-L. Could it not

have been Nell? Or how about some strange spelling like

Nhell or something? The permutations are endless.

Jack Nell? John Nell? Jack Nhell? John Nhell? How about

Jack Nail? John Nail? Johnny Nell? Jack Nelle?



Was there a Jack Neal stationed at Mathers? Was the Mathers

angle checked out or just regular civilians?



Aaron


Been trying to figure out this phone call for awhile, if the EAR really made it then he certainly would be playing games. Tried several combinations of the name Jack Neal and finally separated the two with "and" to find out that Tom Waits released a song in January of 1977 on his album called Foreign Affairs with the title "Jack and Neal/California here I come". The Jack and Neal refer to Jack Kerouac(novelist and poet) and Neal Cassady.



www.rhapsody.com/artist/tom-waits/album/foreign-affairs/track/jack-and-nealcalifornia-here-i-come



Did Detective Crompton change the name given by the caller, I have no idea but he didn't change the name of the person receiving it as a simple google search shows Dick Cable as a newscaster for KXTV.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIOWSq1mGYE



Not that this will solve the case but thought it might be another poetry connection.

By thelostsock

Response from setrepeoh

Mather AFB

I was stationed there from 1965 to 1967, and came back there in 1968 until January of 1969 when I was discharged. I was part of the 360th CDS SAC Air Police Squadron guarding the B-52's and KC-135's on alert status. Rancho Cordova was a very nice community with wine tasting rooms every hundred yards, it seemed, on Folsom Blvd. Mills Station, and other spots along Folsom were my favorite places while I was stationed there. I've often wondered how EAR/ONS could disappear so quickly without anyone seeing him.

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By setrepeoh

To Setrepeoh
Posted By: setrepeoh

I was stationed there from 1965 to 1967, and came back there in 1968 until January of 1969 when I was discharged. I was part of the 360th CDS SAC Air Police Squadron guarding the B-52's and KC-135's on alert status. Rancho Cordova was a very nice community with wine tasting rooms every hundred yards, it seemed, on Folsom Blvd. Mills Station, and other spots along Folsom were my favorite places while I was stationed there. I've often wondered how EAR/ONS could disappear so quickly without anyone seeing him.

Response from Sandia

So am I understanding you that you think maybe he ran into one of these wine tasting rooms or bars? That is an interesting thought if that is what you are saying. Do you think the cops even checked those places when they were out searching for him?

By Sandia

Re: Jack Neal or Jack and Neal?
Posted By: thelostsock

Response from DanCartell

wow very good , amazing how you dissected and went about this.........the poetry connection is an amazing avenue , the music album is also intriguing......it may not necessarily solve the case as you say but I am getting the impression EAR was into music, poetry.......
its quite amazing amazing how a garden variety psychopath rapist like EAR seemed to be into stuff like music and poetry !
 
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By DanCartell

[Drifter]

Topic: "Kim Alcone": The Wrong Victim (Sudden Terror, Chapter 16)

Poster: Aaron Timones

---------------------------------------------------------------------

"Kim Alcone" - The Wrong Victim

The following is an excerpt from SUDDEN TERROR. It comes from the

e-book.

Chapter 16. Pages 152 - 155.

I think somebody asked if Mr. EAR-ONS ever took any of his victims

outside to rape them.... I think he did at least 3 times if I am

remembering correctly.... this is the 2nd time, a failed attempt.

This may also be the first victim AFTER the news blackout had been lifted.

Or The Wrong Victim is maybe what I should say.

______________

Kim poured herself a glass of milk and gave her dog a piece of hot
dog that it swallowed without chewing.

“Come on, let’s watch TV,” she went through the living room to
turn off the stereo, then sat back down on the couch. Her dog took its
usual place on her lap.

“What was that?” Kim exclaimed. A loud bang from somewhere in
the house had startled her. Her dog began barking and shaking.

“It’s all right, Gidget. Quiet. Mom? Dad? Is that you?”

He was in front of her before she heard him. It was as though he had
jumped into the room. She started to scream.

“Shut up or I’ll kill you,” she felt the knife at her throat and she
looked into the eyes in front of her. Eyes staring at her through the slit
of the leather hood.

“Shut that dog up or I’ll kill it,” he ordered through clenched teeth.
He was in front of her, close, breathing through the slit for his mouth.
She could smell him. Body odor or bad breath, she couldn’t tell, but
then it really didn’t matter.

“Get up,” he ordered. She was doing what he wanted now. Scared
into submission. A sixteen year old can be so brave surrounded by
friends, yet so vulnerable alone.

“Turn around,” he hissed.

She could see the black shoelaces in his gloved hand and then
she could feel them biting into her wrists as he
tied her tight. He led her outside and sat her down on
the concrete walk. She saw the black shoelaces hanging neatly
from the handle bars of her yellow bike. She watched as he removed
them. She was thinking now. Thinking and watching. Her fear was
in her throat as he knelt in front of her. She wanted to scream, but
she knew a scream meant death. She could see it in his eyes,
feel it through his presence.

“Maybe he’ll go away if I do what he tells me. Maybe he won’t touch
me. Oh, God, I’m scared. Please God, please help me.”

She felt him tying her ankles and she watched the leather hood. His
gray sweater covered the bottom of the hood. He stood over her in his
army fatigue pants and black square toed shoes.

“Don’t move or you’ll be dead and I’ll be gone in the night,” he ordered,
and then he was gone. She saw him go back into the house only
to return a short time later. She watched as he replaced the screen on the
living room window and then he was in front of her, kneeling, looking
at her. A face hidden behind a mask.

“Where’s your money?”

“I don’t have any,” she managed to whisper.

“Where’s your parents’ money.”

“I think they took it with them.”

“Damn, no money. Ah, man, no money,” again he ran back toward
the family room door, returning a short time later.

“Do you like to f-ck?” he hissed.

“Oh, God,” she thought. She closed her eyes and didn’t answer.

“Do you have a boyfriend?”

She could only nod yes, her voice wouldn’t respond.

“Does he f-ck you?”

She watched as her ankles were untied and felt herself being lifted
to her feet. They were leaving the backyard now, toward the canal that
ran behind her house. The canal where she used to play with her little
friends. A place with good memories. A place where she laughed and
whispered shared secrets. A place of innocence.

She heard the neighbors’ dogs barking after them and prayed a
neighbor would see them and take her from the monster walking behind
her. But no one arrived and the dogs fell into silence as their attention
soon diverted from the two figures disappearing into the darkness
of the canal.

“Please let me go,” she pleaded.

“Shut up,” he hissed through clenched teeth. “If you don’t shut up
you’ll be silent forever and I’ll be gone in the dark.”

She knew they were approaching the weeping willow tree, she could
see its outline in the darkness. Her favorite spot–before tonight.

“Sit down,” he hissed. She felt the cold ground through her jeans as
she watched him kneel in front of her and tie her ankles together again.
She watched him walk a short distance away only to return to untie
her ankles. Her hands were numb and cold as the bindings bit into her
flesh, cutting off all circulation. Again he tied her ankles and walked
away. When he returned, she saw the knife in his hand as he walked
behind her. Fear heightened as she felt her hands being pulled back. She
felt the bindings fall free and almost felt relief. Temporary relief, as her
wrists were again tied tightly. He was in front of her now, cutting at her
jeans with the knife. Her legs were bare as the knife tore through her
jeans. His hands were on her thighs and she tried to wiggle free, but his
hands tightened, holding her firm.

“This isn’t working right,” he muttered. Her jeans were off now and
his face close to hers. His eyes looking into hers.

“I know you, don’t I?” he hissed.

“No,” she replied.

“Do you go to American River College?”

Again she replied, “No,” she felt the knife against her neck.

“You’re lying,” he accused. “What’s your name?” She made up a
name and he didn’t respond. He stood in front of her.

“I have to wait for my parents to leave so I can go home,” he muttered.

Was he talking to her or was he playing a game, she wondered.

“I’m going to take off in my car,” he was in front of her and she
watched as he reached down and pulled up his socks. She could see in
the dim light that his legs were very pale with brown hairs.

“Within the next twenty minutes make one move and you’ll be silent
forever and I’ll be off in the dark,” he hissed, and then he was gone.

She managed to slip her hands down and under her feet and easily
untied her ankles. Her wrists were tied too tight to untie. She ran
toward her house, her nakedness forgotten as fear drove her toward
safety.

“We had our ninth one last night, Mike,” Stone greeted Lt. Burns.

“This one was lucky. Sixteen year old over in Citrus Heights. He
stripped her, but for some reason didn’t rape her.”

“You sure it’s our man?”

“Yeah, it’s him. I think he got the wrong victim and it screwed up
his plans. Looks like he thought she was someone else. We think he
was after the neighbor woman. They look alike. He wore a leather hood
with small slits this time. Took her from her house down into the canal,
stripped her, and left. She said he seemed to be a little confused when
she told him she went to San Juan High School. He seemed to think she
went to American River College. The neighbor attends A.R.C. Strange
thing is this one, even at sixteen, fits the mold. She’s pretty, five foot
seven, hundred fifteen, hundred twenty pounds.”

By AaronTimones

Response from SpeakelOfEngrish

Re: "Kim Alcone" - The Wrong Victim / lawstudent1
I agree. The new board is abhorrent in every way.

FYI, when that happens, you can always go back and "edit" the post, and your original text will appear intact. Cut the second half of the post, repost it, and then create a second "Part 2" post, pasting what you've cut. Everything should be fine.
Flag

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By SpeakelOfEngrish


Response from waterfrogger

AT: "Now, onto the other point you made about Mr. EAR-ONS not being in the military
due to the fact that he would know how to distinguish rank off of the gentleman's
clothing in the closet..... and because he had to ask about it means he wasn't
acquainted with rank differentiation.

Well, the only thing I can say about that is maybe, just maybe,
Mr. EAR-ONS WAS in the military, DID know the victim was in the Air Force when
he saw the clothing, COULD distinguish rank, but nevertheless asked the victim
if he was in the Service for the sake of "calming" the male victim's fears....
and perhaps he engaged in this little personal chit chat for a couple of reasons...."

Good thought process but look at it this way.

If a professional football player "A" walks into another professional player "B's" house and sees trophies, photos, and equipment, Player A would probably ask what position Player B played rather than "If he was in the league at all". Semantic, I know, but important ones.

Here is a military approach, and speaking from experience, I look relatively young still and sometimes get approached by Military recruiters, I know right away everything about them by what they are wearing. Conclusion: When I see a uniform, I know what rank they are and who they served with but where more commonalty comes into to play is what they did for their job. That is where I reach commonality, not if they were even in the service because that garners very little common ground that I already know and not nearly as much as what he did for a job in the military. If he said: I was a Grunt. Then here is where I have more in commonality.

I would expect more questions from visually seeing and touching the uniforms:

What did you do in the Air Force?
Where you in the Nam?
A more scrutinized look at the ribbons and a question from what type of ribbons the Airman had adorned.
Staff or Enlisted? (Not knowing perfect rank structure and unsure about enlisted staff of enlisted in the Airforce)
Field grade? (Same thing applies here, for Officers, as above)
Your at Mathers? (No question about what branch)
Your in the military, right? Airforce, right? Yeah...... (leading questions with a response he already knows)

Just an observation from being in the military. This one observation I use and many other vets I know use this approach all the time. Now, if I never saw the uniform then that is a different proposition.

Edited by waterfrogger, 3 years ago
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By waterfrogger

Response from Aaron Timones

Mr. Waterfrogger

Hello, Mr. Waterfrogger, sir.

I do not think Mr. EAR-ONS was in the Service, sir.

I ended that specific post by saying that I don't
believe he was in the Service.

I was just temporarily playing Devil's Advocate is all.

Thank you.

Aaron
 
Edited by AaronTimones, 3 years ago
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By AaronTimones

Response from conquistador1521

EAR in the service?
EAR was not in the service at the times of the rapes!! Many of the victims especially in the earlier period of the attacks said he had long hair. You can not have long hair and be in the military. Perhaps he might have been a veteran but he was not in the service at the time of the attacks. With all the attacks, burglaries, preparing the crime scenes and surveillance EAR did, he would have a difficult time holding down even a part time job, let alone a full time military career.

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By conquistador1521

Response from waterfrogger

Aaron
I know AT...lol. Your Devil's Advocate is welcome but I am not posting for you but for others. Please call me chum, mate, kid, son, brah....anything but "Sir".

Good posts AT.

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By waterfrogger

Response from confidence is the balaclava

Re: Re:
Posted By: lawstudent1

What do you all make of EAR's comments in this attack?

"I know you, don’t I?” he hissed. “No,” she replied.

“Do you go to American River College?” Again she replied, “No,” she felt the knife against her neck.

“You’re lying,” he accused. “What’s your name?” She made up a name and he didn’t respond. He stood in front of her.

“I have to wait for my parents to leave so I can go home,” he muttered.

------------------------------------------------------

*I think it's safe to say that EAR is full of crap regarding the majority of his comments such as "I need money for my van" or the one where he stated he had a camp along the river. My favorite had to be "I need food for my van" or something like that - I think he bungled his lines a little bit when reciting his script, unless he was implying that he was living in his van. These comments were for misdirection. The majority of the time, EAR did not know the name of his victims until he checked their purse and then tried to play it off like he did know them.

However, these comments about whether he knew the victim and whether she was a student at American River College and the comment about his parents resonated somewhat with me. Primarily because he never used them in any of the other attacks that we know of. They actually seemed genuine. I'm just curious as to what you all think. LS1

I think he might be an only child and being so, sometimes he speaks out loud to himself.

And sometimes he says nonsensical things. "I have to wait for my parents to leave so I can home." "This is how me *." "I'll kill them. I'll kill them. I'll kill them."

Now that can be from learning to talk to himself as a lone child, or it could be sign of mental illness, or it could be a game for him, or it could be due to the fact he's a psychopath. They tend to contradict themselves sometimes when they speak. He has to contradict himself during an attack because he needs to manipulate the people "Im not going to hurt you." "I only want food and money and then I'll leave." etc.
But even with a paranoid like ear, who's a psychopath and so will lie about everything, including things of no importance whatsoever, in 50+ attacks,youd think he would have reversed a lie he was about to tell, or tell a lie and then contradict it. Those are a lot attacks, his adrenaline was going high, and he spent a lot of time in those homes.

He's also obviously a psychopath who's thing is power/dominance, so he's probably spent a lifetime reading Soldier of Fortune and True Crimes magazines, etc. He wouldve been obsessed with anything to do with wielding extreme power over people.

I think he could fake a lot of things, but he probably couldnt handle being ordered around by anyone, so I dont think he was military.
I thought I read in ST that LE followed every lead to do with the military connection, including ruling out the guys that were kicked out of bases around the areas he attacked in.
As for finding him unfit for duty, I wouldnt think that penis size would make the criteria. And as for him having undescended testicles, did he? I didnt read that, but I did wonder if there was something weird about his testicles too. Victims who were forced to perform oral sex on him might have known and mentioned something. Do they even hold you back for undescended testicles? I thought that fertility was the drawback, here, and why would the military care about that? And the procedure for that is pretty simple. He should have had that taken care of as a baby.
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Edited by the confidence is the balaclava, 9 months ago
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By the confidence is the balaclava

[Drifter]

Topic: Man With The Lotion / Victim 17

Poster: Aaron Timones

------------------------------------------------


Victim #17 and The Man With The Lotion - Part 1/4

I initially was just going to talk about THE MAN WITH THE LOTION....
but I got kind of carried away... before I knew it I had written out
a long thread. Sorry.

Hopefully, you'll indulge me.

All right, let's get right into it .....

On April 15, 1977 (Friday), The East Area Rapist claimed
his 17th Victim(s), a man and woman... I can't remember
if they were boyfriend/girlfriend or husband/wife.

These victims were the SECOND COUPLE that The East Area
Rapist had assaulted.

The FIRST COUPLE, the 16th Victim(s), were assaulted on April 2, 1977.
The April 2, 1977 assault is also the FIRST TIME the DISHES TRICK was
used.

In Mr. Crompton's book, the SECOND COUPLE are referred to as
"Karen Vosper" and "Cameron Wilsey".

The SECOND COUPLE'S attack began around 2:33 AM or 2:43 AM
according to Ms. Karen Vosper.

This is what Ms. Karen Vosper remembers Mr. EAR wearing during
the assault:

- Ms. Karen Vosper could not recall whether or not Mr. EAR wore a mask.

- Mr. EAR was wearing a green khaki colored nylon jacket

- Mr. EAR wore Army Boots that were laced up

- Mr. EAR wore dark colored pants.... and they were tucked into the Army Boots

- Mr. EAR wore gloves

What's very important about this assault is the TIME.

Mr. EAR hit around 2:30 AM and Law Enforcement got the call that a rape
had just occurred at around 4:16 AM.

The assault began at around 2:30 AM .... and lasted to about 4:00 AM.

I could be wrong about some of the details, but I do believe this is the
timeline Mr. Crompton points out in the book.

Now, the following passage comes from SUDDEN TERROR.

It can be found in CHAPTER 23, Pages 217 - 218.

( Note: Although I am referencing the e-book I purchased, from now on
the page numbers I cite will correspond to both the paperback and hardcover
cover versions of SUDDEN TERROR. I am going off of the page numbers
that are located at the bottom left and bottom right of each page on the e-book. )

The events described in the following passage occurs after THE SECOND COUPLE
called in their assault to the police.

Remember now... Mr. EAR began his assault on THE SECOND COUPLE
at around 2:30 AM and ended the assault at roughly around 4:00 AM.

THE MAN WITH THE LOTION was stopped by police at around 4:27 AM.



( Continued In Next Post )

Edited by AaronTimones, 3 years ago
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By AaronTimones

Response from confidence is the balaclave

Re: Victim #17 and The Man With The Lotion - Part 1/4

"From reading 'Sudden Terror' it seems as though suspects were being eliminated because their dads said they had bad knees or because their wives said thay had big penises.

So many cases are solved by going over the original case files...this cannot be done with this case because the information is kept secret even after all these years and the few members of LE still working the case are seemingly overrun by other cases.

Even DNA evidence is not 100% foolproof, but I certainly won't consider anything LESS than DNA as evidence of elimination with regards to suspects who were stopped with lotion, shoelaces, guns and knives within 30 minutes of an EAR rape."

With regard to the book, because it is written in the way it is, including cheesy macho fictional characters and dialogue, I have to wonder if crompton is an unreliable narrator, sometimes. Because he wrote it the way he did, it lends itself to that question.
The form it takes and the fact that it leaves important ends hanging...like when the air force captains wife was raped and crompton wrote that before this happened she had had an unsettling encounter with a guy at the officer's club, did they ever look specifically for that guy as the suspect? Was that ever followed up in the book? And why not?
I have other serious bones to pick about this book and author, but i'll get to it later.

And, considering that these cops cannot give the attention to this case that it needs, have they ever tried to contract some things out to private investigators? Have any other people used them in their quest to find ears? Maybe get a surreptitious footprint from a suspect, or whatever?

Edited by the confidence is the balaclava, 10 months ago
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By the confidence is the balaclava

Response from Drifter

Blood Type

balaclava wrote:

ST "... leaves important ends hanging ..."Oh don't I know it!

Crompton implies on page 28 that EAR had type "A+" blood. Yet, on page 213, the implication is that the rapist of "Nancy Houser" (presumably the EAR) had Type "O" blood. (Paragraph that begins "The Crime Lab returned a report ... regarding ... blood that was found on a picnic table used by EAR ... on 12-18-76).

Then, Crompton simply drops the discussion of blood type. No later attempt is made to reconcile this apparent blood type contradiction.

Given that the EAR was never caught, and given how sloppy the original investigation was, why should we trust any "facts" about this case?
Flag

Edited by Drifter, 10 months ago
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By Drifter

Response from briffyboy

Thats what
I fear.What if EAR/ONS did have blood type O.Think of all the people who were eliminated cause they were not Blood type A,which they thought EAR was.Who knows for sure what blood type he is.They made a bit of a mess of the investigation.
Flag

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By briffyboy

[Drifter]

Topic: Chelly (Janelle's Sister) / Janelle Cruz / Men At Superbowl Party

Poster: Aaron Timones

----------------------------------------------------------

Comment by Chelly

Ms. Janelle Cruz and The Men At The Superbowl Party

Mrs. Chelly said:

I spoke to an old friend today...

I can't say her name, but she told me that Janelle came into the resturant with a guy the night she was killed. Maybe it was Jon. Maybe not. What got to me was, she never spoke to the investigators about this. What gets to me is the police didn't interview all my friends who we hung out with. And my friend never came to them either. I want to ask anyone who knows ANYTHING AT ALL, please contact the Orange County Sheriff Dept in California. Even if you think it is something meaningless, let the investigators know what you know. Something small could lead to something bigger than you could possibly imagine. With respect, Chelly (janelle's sister)..............

Response from Aaron Timones

Hello, Mrs. Chelly, ma'am.

There was a fella who came to this board around a year or so ago.... he went by the name of "Tom"... he dated Ms. Cruz.... he said the last date he had with Ms. Cruz was in January 1986.... he took her to a Superbowl Party that he and his roommate were having.... according to Mr. Tom, Ms. Cruz did not know a soul at the party... Mr. Tom did not specify how many people were actually present at the party.... but the comment about Ms. Cruz not knowing a soul at the party seemed to imply there were many people there....... me and another poster found that comment interesting....

After 25 years, I don't know how possible it would be to track down who was actually present at this party..... but I think it would be worth a shot to have this angle looked into, you know what I mean, ma'am?

I bring this angle up because of some of the points you raised above... about how certain people who perhaps should have said something, didn't... and how some of the investigators working the case should have questioned certain people, but didn't.....

This whole Superbowl Party Incident takes on creepy undertones for me because of what happened 4 months later to Ms. Cruz..... at this Superbowl Party, Ms. Cruz was surrounded by all these strange men she didn't know..... when I say "strange men", I am not implying they all came to the party in raincoats.... I mean, they were strangers to her, she didn't know them.... I am assuming there was an intense male atmosphere at this party.... also, I'm guessing there weren't a lot of women present at this party... and I am also guessing Ms. Cruz caught the eye of every man at that party....

I am not saying Mr. Tom had weird motives or his friends are serial killers or football breeds psychopaths.... I'm saying it's possible that Mr. EAR-ONS could have been present at that party... he could've been one of the many who was there... I mean, it's possible, isn't it, Mrs. Chelly? there might have been a fella at this party who had blonde hair... blue eyes... was known to be a jogger and have a pretty lean physique... thick calves.... owned a German Shepherd dog.... between the age of 30 - 35 years old....

Anyway...... what do you think, Mrs. Chelly?

Aaron
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By AaronTimones

Response from SpeakelOfEngrish

Re: Ms. Janelle Cruz and The Men At The Superbowl Party
I have heard (I cannot name my source) that some of the partygoers that evening spotted a masked man peering into Cruz's bedroom window. They accosted him, and he fled. This would indicate that the EAR/ONS was not among Cruz's party guests.

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By SpeakelOfEngrish

Response from Aaron timones

Hey, Mr. SpeakelOfEngrish, sir.

Are you and I talking about the same party, sir?

I was under the impression this 1986 Superbowl Party Mr. Tom took Ms. Cruz to took place at his place..... with his roommate.... you said there was a "man" peering into Ms. Cruz's bedroom window and was chased off.... well, that is very interesting, sir.... but perhaps this was another party??? I mean, if this "man" was peering into Ms. Cruz's window, then this whole incident most definitely took place at 13 Encina.... in which case, yes, we would have to be talking about another party and another incident altogether....

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By AaronTimones

Response from SpeakelOfEngrish

Re: Ms. Janelle Cruz and The Men At The Superbowl Party

I'm talking about a gathering at Cruz's place the night prior to her murder. Upon closer inspection (which is what I should've given your post in the first place), you seem to be talking about another party altogether.

Edited by SpeakelOfEngrish, 2 years ago
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By SpeakelOfEngrish

Response from Aaron Timones

The Masked Man
I think the incident you brought up is a million times more chilling, Mr. SpeakelOfEngrish... I was working with a long shot... but you're talking about something that really did happen - a "masked man" was seen on the Cruz premises prior to her murder.... and then chased off.... eerie......... I wonder if those fine people at the party succeeded in preventing a murder -- at least for that one night.... in any case, I wonder if there is any more information on this "masked man".... I'm sure Mr. Montgomery knows about this incident....

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By AaronTimones

Response from SpeakelOfEngrish

Re: The Masked Man
If the information I have is accurate, then it strengthens the case that the EAR/ONS was local to Irvine, at that time.

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By SpeakelOfEngrish

Response from Aaron Timones

UPDATE
Mrs. Chelly posted this in the "COLD CASES" section of this message board... in case no one goes over to that section of the board to read posts, I thought I'd post here what she posted over there .... anyway, here it is --

Regarding my friend who I spoke to the other day...
Ok, so I gave her the detectives phone number and she called and left a message. She wanted to tell the detective about the guy she saw my sister, Janelle, with the night janelle was killed. She called 4 days ago, and the detective never called her back. Funny, I sent the detective an email to let him know she'd be calling. He did write back to tell me he'd call her the next day. Well, that never happened. Very disappointing that he doesn't return calls on this case...

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By AaronTimones

Response from chelly

Janelle called me...
FYI- I was in Mammouth when my sister was killed. She called me and we were talking about a guy she met at the beach. I thought it was Laguna Beach. She said he was a body builder. She seemed like she really liked this guy. I wish I would have talked more in detail about him. It haunts me... Btw, my understanding, my sister had some friends over the night before she was killed. They heard noises in the backyard. When her friends went back to check, they didn't see anything and came back in...

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By chelly

Response from AngelEyes7

Chelly: An Old Poster From The Old Board

Hi Chelly--

I can't imagine what it must have been like for you to have experienced such an ordeal as you did in May 1986. Having said that, your recent post piqued my interest, and it reminded me of something that I recall seeing on A&E's old message board. I think it was around 2005 when a poster operating under the handle "pts1" posted for a brief time. I'm not sure if this person is the same as this "Tom" individual. Anyway, I remember this poster writing that he had dated your sister for a brief period, but that they had broken up a few months before your sister's untimely passing--I think February 1986. Your account reminded me of the following post: pts1 claimed that in the week leading to your sister's death, he was with her at a community pool and that your sister was talking with a guy that really scared him. He described this "pool guy" as a swarthy man in his late 20s/early 30s, and if I recall correctly, he did have hazel/blue eyes, like the suspect. He said that the guy was about 5'9" tall, but that he was in excellent shape--I got the impression of a weightlifter/bodybuilder type from pts1's description--and that he had a large tattoo running along his shoulders. "pts1" had this to say about the pool guy: "he had the air of a predator about him." Apparently, everybody was hanging out poolside, and when the guy was approached by pts1, he swam off a distance while maintaining his eye on your sister. "pts1" suggested that the pool guy didn't want anybody to really study his facial features. As I recollect, the pool guy claimed to have a brood of kittens, and pts1 claimed your sister was interested in adopting one of the kittens. When you wrote your recent post, I couldn't help but think of this pool guy when you mentioned your conversation with your sister and the Laguna Beach bodybuilder. Maybe it's nothing and I'm totally wrong, but I thought writing this would be a good idea simply because, with all of the mistakes made in these cases, it will boil down to a little detail solving this case.

AE7

Edited by AngelEyes7, 2 years ago
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By AngelEyes7


The Mystery Man
Posted By: chelly
FYI- I was in Mammouth when my sister was killed. She called me and we were talking about a guy she met at the beach. I thought it was Laguna Beach. She said he was a body builder. She seemed like she really liked this guy. I wish I would have talked more in detail about him. It haunts me... Btw, my understanding, my sister had some friends over the night before she was killed. They heard noises in the backyard. When her friends went back to check, they didn't see anything and came back in...

Response from Aaron Timones

Hello, Mrs. Chelly, ma'am.

Even though it is May 2011 at the time of this writing... if even now... after all these years... some of your old friends and Ms. Janelle's old friends have vague recollections or memories that were never brought up, talked about, mentioned to Law Enforcement.... it can still serve a purpose.... you never know where a lead will take you, ma'am.... the answer you're looking for might have been so obvious it slipped by because it never stood out in the first place......

I think this "Mystery Man" who was seen with your sister the night she was killed is VERY INTRIGUING, Mrs. Chelly....

Ma'am, who is this "Jon" you mentioned in your above post? is this "Jon" the fella who was with Ms. Janelle the night she was killed? the fella who was actually in her house and then left after a time? was this "Jon" fella well-built? like a bodybuilder type?

What I am getting at is.... is there anyway for this "Jon" to be mistaken for a fella who was really into weightlifting and stuff? because if "Jon" was a lanky fella... and the "Mystery Man" who your old friend saw with your sister the night she was killed was a big, muscular, well-built fella.... well, then that might be a little detail worth exploring.... of course, everything is dependent on your friend's memory...... because it could be that the "Mystery Man" she saw really was "Jon" all along, you know what I mean, Mrs. Chelly?

Thank you.

Edited by AaronTimones, 2 years ago
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By AaronTimones

Response from chelly

regarding Jon
Just wanted to tell you, Jon was a guy we went to high school with. He'd be way too young. Also, he was cleared through dna.


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By chelly

Response from Aaron Timones

Mr. Jon
Thank you very much for telling me that, Mrs. Chelly, ma'am..... I wonder if the gentleman seen with Ms. Janelle the night she was killed was, indeed, that Bodybuilder fella...... or maybe even Mr. Kitten Man..... god, I wish I knew who this killer was.......

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By AaronTimones

[Drifter]

Topic: Composite Sketch Logic / McNamara's Article

Poster: Archangel76

--------------------------------------------------------

Composite Sketch Cherry-Picking

"About the composites and the sentence "no one ever saw EAR without his ski mask on." That's accurate, as no one in any DNA-connected EAR attacks did. Maggiore and Miller are presumed EAR but can't be proven with absolute certainty.
And my law enforcement source, and I checked with him twice about this, said Det. McGowan's shooter had a ski mask on and was only pretending to take it off when he shot at McGowan."
This was a quote from Michelle McNamara about a week ago regarding the various composite sketches. Now there are those who take what LE says as sacrosanct and there is nothing at all wrong with that. However, if they are going to regard what LE says as sacrosanct, it becomes deceptive, IMO, to use ANY of the composite sketches to try and prove a point.
So, the VR composite sketch is invalidated, according to Michelle's LE source, as the VR, apparently, never took off his ski mask but only pretended to. Again, those who continue to have high confidence in what the LE investigators say either must take that info into consideration -OR- they are doubting what LE has said. Repoman would argue that witness statements are unreliable and that McGowen could not have got as good a look at the VR as the detail in the sketch suggests.
We have a similar situation with the Maggiore composite sketch. Michelle clarified the investigators position on the Maggiore case as well as the Rod Miller shooting. She said that they said that while the cases are "presumed" to be the EAR, it cannot be proven with absolute certainty. Recall the Ventura case where Alsip was presumed to be the perp or the Riggins/Gonsalves case where David Hunt was presumed to be the perp. Presumption does not equal fact.
The fact that no investigator will go on record as saying that the EAR 100% was responsible for the VR, the Rod Miller shooting or the Maggiore murders means just that. And that was clarified by Michelle. The only thing that we can say with certainty is that there is no forensic evidence linking those cases together so implying that a composite sketch from the Maggiore murders is the EAR/ONS is a form of deception.
So can we please stop with the use of the side by side composite sketches with actual suspects? It is confusing to me and feels manipulative because it contradicts what LE investigators have said regarding the composite sketches especially with respect to the VR and the Maggiore murders.
Investigators have made the statement that "no one ever saw the EAR without his ski mask on". So using ANY of the composite sketches side by side with a particular suspect to make a case that the suspect "may be" the EAR, again, is manipulative and deceptive and contradicts what LE has said.

Edited by Archangel76, 3 months ago
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By Archangel76

Response from Lepke

Composite sketches

If it can be agreed upon which of the sketches is most likely to look like EAR/ONS, then one interesting thing would be to do an age progression on it, and possibly give us some idea of what he might look like today.

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By Lepke

Response from dengas

Age progression
What an excellent idea. There are several of us from Visalia who are in the early 60 age group, and we would all work together to get an age progression sketch out through our class reunion email addresses. IF ANYONE HAS THAT CAPABILITY, share ASAP. Recently we had a reunion and there were many who were curious about what I was sharing with them. A picture/sketch would be most most helpful.

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By dengas

Response from dengas

By the way
Everyone who I have shown his senior picture and the composites, agree that my POI is a spitting image to the sketch that LA Magazine has on the left.

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By dengas

Response from f1guyus

dengas
How the hell are you. Had a nice Pinot Noir Sunday.

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By f1guyus

Response from Drifter

Re: Composite Sketch Cherry-Picking

Arch, I see what you're getting at. But I think the logic is too circuitous to make much of an impression here.

I'd rather go back to the logic of two months ago, before that outlandish statement "No one ever saw EAR without his ski mask on" came out. It reeks of an official pronouncement.

I'm glad I don't have to tiptoe around the egos of people assigned to this case. Said "investigators" have a special talent for misdirection. Maybe that's intentional.

Edited by Drifter, 3 months ago
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By Drifter

Response from ZForce

McNamara Quote
If I'm reading this clearly in regards to VR....then this is already a case of LE vs. LE. If McGowen didn't see VR then how was he able to make not one, but two composites??? Either way, someone in LE is off in this scenario and my money is on McNamara's source because that totally discredits what we know about how the VR composites were developed.

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By ZForce

Response from Archangel76

And I am not trying to create any controversy. It is just we have been led to believe one thing about the VR all this time and then this other statement is made that contradicts everything that we were told. Meanwhile, the "appeal to authority" posters are telling us to trust what LE investigators say while making posts that contradict what LE has said.

The mask vs ski cap ultimately is not a problem for me as I do not believe that the VR was the EAR/ONS. But then there are those who would say that "LE says that the VR is the EAR/ONS" therefore it must be true (which is a logical fallacy). That argument is a problem for me because it is a form of deception.

Edited by Archangel76, 3 months ago
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By Archangel76

Re: Re: McNamara Quote
Posted By: Archangel76

Response from ZForce

In this case, it's a third party claiming an LE source. My point being that this info is clearly false. It's easy for me to chalk this up as people who have limited knowledge of the VR case commenting on something they in all actuality know nothing about.

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By ZForce

Response from Archangel76

I want to clear up any ambiguity. My posts about the manipulative and deceptive nature of some other posts here was in no way directed toward Michelle McNamara or at LE investigators. Posting side by side comparisons between suspects and invalidated composite sketches continues to be manipulative and deceptive. Using Logical Fallacy arguments such as the "appeal to authority" is manipulative and deceptive. If one has to be manipulative and deceptive in order to make one's case, then one has no case.

Edited by Archangel76, 3 months ago
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By Archangel76

Response from hdmi

Logical Fallacy arguments
Manipulative and deceptive nature...blah,blah,blah...
I'll pull up 1,000 of your posts over the last ten years.Your are the reigning Queen of BS

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By hdmi
Member

Response from Archangel76

Being that I have only been posting for 8+ years, that would be difficult. And I stand by every one of my posts so have at it. Please start with my posts from "ten years" ago.


Edited by Archangel76, 3 months ago
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By Archangel76

Response from hdmi

Re: Composite Sketch Cherry-Picking

8+, okay 9 - then, fruitcake.

You are one of the most illogical persons I have ever had the misfortune of having anything to do with. You couldn't use logic to find your way out of a wet paper bag.

I will do you and all the other morons who post here,(there are some good posters) goodbye forever.

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By hdmi

Response from SammyT
hdmi
If you are really leaving try not to trip over your ego on the way out, and make sure you don't bump the chip on your shoulder against the door frame xx

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By SammyT

Response from Repoman

Re: Logical Fallacy arguments
Posted By: hdmi
Manipulative and deceptive nature...blah,blah,blah...
I'll pull up 1,000 of your posts over the last ten years.Your are the reigning Queen of BS

I could not agree more. Arch means well, but he talks in cirlces. Then he bashes others for speculating, and turns around and posts outlandish theories as if they were fact. Then he attacks anyone who points this out. Then to top it off he says that we should all try and get along. Maybe that is why LE & Michelle left in out of their latest effort.

Edited by Repoman, 3 months ago
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By Repoman

Response from dengas

Re: dengas
Posted By: f1guyus
How the hell are you. Had a nice Pinot Noir Sunday.
I'm great...counting the days until the end of the school year when I will retire...46 more school days. Let me tell you about a big mistake I recently made by not asking the price on a bottle of wine while dining out at the Depot. I orderered a bottle of Caymus Vineyard 2006 Special Selection of cab.....want to guess the price?

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By dengas

Response from dengas

Obviously trying to divert
The mudslinging that has never been productive.

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By dengas

Response from guessting

Re: Re: Logical Fallacy arguments
Posted By: Repoman
Posted By: hdmi
Manipulative and deceptive nature...blah,blah,blah...
I'll pull up 1,000 of your posts over the last ten years.Your are the reigning Queen of BS

I could not agree more. Arch means well, but he talks in cirlces. Then he bashes others for speculating, and turns around and posts outlandish theories as if they were fact. Then he attacks anyone who points this out. Then to top it off he says that we should all try and get along. Maybe that is why LE & Michelle left in out of their latest effort.

Not true repo. Arch was very ill and unable to be interviewed. He's respected whether you like it or not, we might not be here except for Arch. I say thanks to him for that.

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By guessting

Response from Drifter

ZForce wrote: "... someone in LE is off in this scenario and my money is on McNamara's source ..."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So far, the source of the LA magazine article has not been identified. Am I supposed to just "trust" the article writer that her source is credible?

The writer must surely know the history of this case. Why hasn't she addressed all these contradictions?

Again to repeat from what I said two or three weeks ago ... I'm glad the LA mag article generated some publicity. But the article content is awful. My confidence in current LE has dropped precipitously.

Yet, there are other board posters here cheerfully posting their analyses of handwriting samples and speculating on other dubious material from the LA magazine article, blissfully unaware of contradictions. They act as if the LA magazine article is the only evidence in this case.

Edited by Drifter, 3 months ago
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By Drifter

Response from SammyT

Not true repo. Arch was very ill and unable to be interviewed. He's respected whether you like it or not, we might not be here except for Arch. I say thanks to him for that.

I second that guessting - I respect Arch because he is willing to admit when he gets it wrong and because he acknowledges that some of his theories are very speculative.

Having said that I also respect Repo because he is also very knowledgable, an excellent critical-thinker and he says it how he sees it - I just wish the two could get on or agree to disagree!

I like drinking wine and I also like drinking beer - the two don't go particularly well together but are each outstanding in their own right (a bit like Arch and Repo!)

Edited by SammyT, 3 months ago
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By SammyT

Response from Lepke

I like drinking wine and I also like drinking beer - the two don't go particularly well together but are each outstanding in their own right (a bit like Arch and Repo!)
I get no kicks from champagne, mere alcohol doesn't thrill me at all...

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By Lepke

[Drifter]

Topic: FOIA Request For "Afraid" Letter" / City EAR Began In

Poster: akwilks

------------------------------------------------

FOIA Request For AFRAID Letter That May Have Been Sent By The EAR/ONS

ANNOUNCEMENT: Some of you may have seen at the www.unazod.com messaage board and other places that Morf and I both recently got several major documents and previously unreleased letters in the Zodiac case and other cases.

See www.zodiackillerfacts.com/NEWS%20&%20UPDATES.htm . Later this week I will be filing a Freedom Of Information Act and California Sunshine Law Open Public Records Act for the AFRAID letter and envelope, and the EAR poem letter and envelope, and any other possible EAR letters, poems or envelopes.

I think researchers and the public have a right to see these items. They may provide clues and information which could help to solve the case. There is no reason to justify their still being held secret.

If and when I get them I will provide copies to Arch for his website at www.ear-ons.com , to the Sacramento media and I will post them here.

If anyone knows of a specific document that you would like to see and could be helpful to the case if released to researchers and the public, let me know either here or in a PM and I will consider requesting it.

Afraid Letter In EAR ONS Case 8 17 77.jpg


Edited by akwilks, 2 years ago
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By akwilks

Response from metalhalide

affraid letter
if the afraid letter no longer longer existed and was disposed of 3 decades ago why do we know of its existance?somethin tells me that le still has it otherwise we would never know about it,i dont remember it in cromptons book,am i mistaken?
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By metalhalide
Member

Response from akwilks

Re: FOIA Request For AFRAID Letter That May Have Been Sent By The EAR/ONS

Virtually all I know about the Afraid letter comes from this article.



Afraid Letter In EAR ONS Case 8 17 77.jpg
Flag

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By akwilks

Response from metalhalide

afraid letter
why was the afraid letter never printed in the press?such valuable information if made public might of exposed this person in terms of the way an things he wrote about he probably told his close friends and family.a * poor investigation right from the get go ensured this sob would walk free from these crimes for a long time.the answer lies in carmichael

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By metalhalide

Response from guessting

metal,
I am curious why you state "the answer lies in Carmichael?" Can you tell me why you believe that? g

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By guessting

Response from conquistador1521

Carmichael?
I am glad you pointed that out G. I think any serious person would say the answer lies in Rancho Cordova.

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By conquistador1521

Response from SpeakelOfEngrish
 
Kim Rossmo could only be described as "serious," and he felt the answer lies in either Citrus Heights or Carmichael.

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By SpeakelOfEngrish

Response from Dogs

Re: FOIA Request For AFRAID Letter That May Have Been Sent By The EAR/ONS
I respectfully disagree with Prof. Rossmo. To my eyes, the answer definitely lies in Rancho Cordova, as that is where EAR began his spree.

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By Dogs

Response from SpeakelOfEngrish

Yeah, that's where the EAR series officially began. EAR was in Carmichael, however, for EAR #2, and in Citrus Heights for EAR #4. Of course, he returned to Rancho Cordova, but he returned to these other areas too. Also remember an incident described in Crompton's book, pp. 213-214 (227-228 of the PDF) that took place on 4/11/1976: a Carmichael resident alerted her male guest to a blonde-haired prowler who seemed to be examining the locking device on her patio door. The prowler quickly vanished. From what I understand, this took place in the vicinity of American River College. The prowler fit the description of the EAR and was likely the EAR. This was closer to Citrus Heights and those attacks than to Rancho Cordova.

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By SpeakelOfEngrish

Response from metalhalide

Re: FOIA Request For AFRAID Letter That May Have Been Sent By The EAR/ONS
i understand from what we know he started in rancho cordova and usually a person will offend very close to home on his first outing.but i believe he felt jus as comfortable in citrus height as he did in rc.i think 10 plus times in each area were he only offended a hand full in carmichael.my point being he was jus as familiar with citrus heights as he was with rc and carmichael is in perfect situ with both not only with familiarisation but with getting home after the attack.i believe he grew up in this area but tried his best not to poop on his own doorstep
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By metalhalide

Response from Dogs

Re: FOIA Request For AFRAID Letter That May Have Been Sent By The EAR/ONS
The mileage among these three suburbs is so small to be insignificant. I could bicycle from one end of CH to the river and then cross into RC in 15 minutes. So making a case for which of these suburbs he lived in based on his attacks is flawed thinking, IMO. I've long made the case for RC because of two reasons: the ability to use the river as his getaway, and the protection of Mather AFB from local LE.
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By Dogs