Third Set (Format Changes Completed)

[Drifter]

Topic: The Three Enhanced Composite Sketches

Poster: Archangel76

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Enhanced Composite Sketches from Poster Icyu2

We have all seen them here already but I added Icyu2's awesome Enhanced Composite Sketches to the website. To anyone who has not seen them yet, they can be viewed here:

www.ear-ons.com/EnhancedComposites.html

Thanks again, Icyu2, incredible work!!! When the EAR/ONS is finally unmasked, it will be interesting to see how close he comes to which composite sketch.

Edited by Archangel76, 1 year ago
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By Archangel76

Response from Friday

After looking at all of those sketches, they are all kind of unattractive. You kind of wonder if he struck out and became desperate. Unfortunate he forced his way on to women. Well unfortunately that he killed for a moment of pleasure. Like my deceased mother inlaw would say, for every pot there is a lid. Maybe he found a partner who shared his passions.

Edited by Friday, 1 year ago
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By Friday

Response from Archangel76

Friday,

I refer to the 1976 sketch as the "Billy Mumy" sketch. It looks sort of like Billy Mumy from "Bless the Beasts and the Children". He was in a very awkward stage as he got older. I agree with you. Those sketches are of someone who was unattractive. Someone who no doubt suffered rejection by women. And someone who resented women because of the rejection.

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By Archangel76

Response from Drifter

Glad you posted this at your website.

But why these three? From previous thread many months ago there were all sorts of sketches, including "half-mask", plus ICYU2 posted enhanced sketches for other drawings. Just curious as to why you posted these three in particular, but not the others.

The guy on the right, with the black bouffant hairdo somehow just doesn't strike me as EAR. Would have thought that without his mask, there would have been more of a concensus among witnesses about that "strange guy with the boufant hairdo", or comparable statement. Yet, this is the first time I have seen that particular sketch.

The other two look suitably sinister.

Drifter

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By Drifter

Response from Archangel76

Drifter,

I have 5 enhanced composites by Icyu2. Long-hair, Short-hair, Bouffant, the Ransacker and Maggiore Suspect #1. The Ransacker and Maggiore case only add confusion to trying to figure this out. Because they have not been linked by DNA evidence, I do not think they should be considered EAR/ONS crimes. Suspected EAR/ONS crimes, yes. EAR/ONS crimes, no.

We have seen with the TK/Zodiac/EAR/ONS/Tylenol/Fill-in-the-blanks Killer nonsense that there is no theoretical end to "linking" crimes that have no DNA link to the EAR/ONS. There is a basis to suspect the EAR in both the Visalia Ransacker and Maggiore case, but most here know my feelings about both cases. Premature linking can throw us off the EAR's trail.

So, I included the composite sketches that are associated only with the EAR case. And to be clear, they are all just suspicious persons. No guarantee that any of them are of the EAR. Icyu2's composites really help to bring the composite sketches alive.

At some point I will add both the Ransacker and the Maggiore suspect to those respective pages.

Edited by Archangel76, 1 year ago
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By Archangel76

Response from tintin

1976 & 1977 sketches

regarding the 76 and 77 sketch I just cant get over the prominent chin !Smile

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By tintin

Response from Drifter

Discard The Doughboy Sketch

Upthread, Arch wrote ...

"The Ransacker and Maggiore case only add confusion to trying to figure this out. Because they have not been linked by DNA evidence, I do not think they should be considered EAR/ONS crimes."

But can't we carry that a little further?

In another thread, Arch indicated that the person who shot at Officer William McGowen had his DNA checked against that of the ONS. The result was negative. The DNA samples did not match. (See Edit below).

In other words, the person who shot at McGowen, identified visually as the "doughboy", has already been eliminated as an EAR/ONS suspect.

If my understanding is correct, why is the doughboy sketch still being considered in the EAR/ONS investigation? Can't we just discard that sketch, as being no longer relevant ... ?

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Edit: The thread was Sandia's "VR is not EAR/ONS ..." thread.

Arch wrote: "I am referring to McGowen's prime suspect in the Ransacker case who strongly resembles McGowen's enhanced composite sketch. This person ... has been cleared of any involvement in the EAR/ONS case."

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Edited by Drifter, 1 year ago
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By Drifter


Response from Archangel76

Posted By: Drifter

One caveat: we do not know factually that McGowen had identified the person who shot at him. He identified the person that he believed shot at him. He could not prove that it was the person so it may or may not have been the actual perpetrator.

Edited by Archangel76, 1 year ago
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By Archangel76

Response from metalhalide

sketches
i would not bother looking at any of them for a few reasons.through experience i know witness sketches can be poor at best,secondly its been over 3 decades so if noone notices anyone from them in the first few weeks its highly unlikely there of much use(probably no likeness at all).also the greatest and probably only(apart from maybe mother,spose denial)evidence is dna.i hope its still in codis but im worried this s.o.b slipped through the net!!!!

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By metalhalide

Response from Drifter

Re: Re: Discard The Doughboy Sketch
Posted By: Archangel76
Posted By: Drifter

Your comment seems inconsistent with McGowen's son, who told Sandia: "The [doughboy] sketch was produced off my father's description the night he was shot at ... he positively identified a suspect". (That suspect had his DNA checked against that of the ONS. It did not match.

Ergo, we know for a fact that the suspect, represented by the doughboy sketch, is not the EAR/ONS.)

But, since McGowen could not "prove" that the suspect was the actual person who shot at him (and said proof had to be apparently higher than usual as a result of local politics), then the alternative must necessarily be plausible; namely, that said suspect had an "evil twin" that looked just like him, even though that alternative is inane and silly.

I dare say that there's a far greater chance that the real EAR was interviewed in Sacramento and let go for casual, negligent reasons by an indifferent investigator, than the prospect of McGowen being shot at by some suspect lookalike. It's kind of a slap at Officer William McGowen.

Clinging to old cherished opinions, assumption, beliefs (doughboy "might" be the EAR), only clogs our minds with useless clutter and slows down the investigation, the point of which is to make progress, over time. But if we cling to far-fetched, implausible ideas then we don't progress. We just go round and round in circles.

But this is not my investigation. At least the "doughboy" sketch has not been added to the ear-ons website, in the same way that the above three composite sketches have.

Speaking for myself only, I would entertain the idea that Sacramento got EAR's blood type wrong before I would entertain the idea that the doughboy sketch represents the EAR.

Edited by Drifter, 1 year ago
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By Drifter

Response from Drifter

Posted By: metalhalide
i would not bother looking at any of them for a few reasons.through experience i know witness sketches can be poor at best,secondly its been over 3 decades so ...

Well you may be right. But unlike typical "witness sketches", the EAR composite sketches are very, very good. At the very least, they're ... information. And information usually helps (except for the useless type, like the "doughboy" sketch)

So I'm glad that Arch has posted those composite sketches at the ear-ons website, on the off-chance that some lurker happens by, sees the three sketches, then thinks: "oh, that guy behind door number 3 sure does look like ... I wonder if maybe I should contact ..."
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Edited by Drifter, 1 year ago
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By Drifter

Response from Sandia

Dreaming of sketches and the lower face of EAR/ONS, the jaw.
O.K., now it's getting bad. I am now starting to dream about this case. It just struck me about how two of the sketches have such a long jaw. These are two separate sketches so I am thinking that long and possibly angular jaw would probably be an accurate feature of EAR/ONS face. And to top it off I was dreaming of one of the sketches and suddenly I realized it looked like Arch (lol!!! since I have no ideat what Arch looks like) and then it morphed into Pierce Morgan.
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By Sandia

Response from confidence is the balaclava

3 composites

the one on the left looks like billy the kid.
the one on the right...no way. people would have noticed that his mask pouffed up on top of his head.


the one in the middle looks like an actual person. and sort of like a young sulky dick van dyke.

Edited by the confidence is the balaclava, 10 months ago
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By the confidence is the balaclava

[Drifter]

Topic: Ways To Close/Solve The EAR/ONS Case

Poster: Archangel76

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June 18, 1976 - 35 Years Ago Today

The EAR crawled out of the sewer and attacked his first known victim. Like the original investigators, we know very little about the true identity of this rapist/murderer. Despite having his DNA profile in CODIS, Prop 69 and familial database searches, the EAR/ONS remains unidentified.

This post is to let all of the survivors know that we are still hard at work trying to identify the EAR/ONS and bring him to justice. There is a lot going on behind the scenes. The recent DNA connection made by the Santa Barbara detectives is an example of this.

It is always useful in a case such as this, to take a step back and reflect on what has been done and then map out what else needs to be done. Most important is that a LOT of really good suspects have been cleared. That is progress. It has been frustrating when the DNA comes back as a negative match, but each suspect cleared puts us one step closer to the eventual match of the EAR/ONS.

As I see it, there are only 3 ways in which this case can be closed:

1) A CODIS cold hit.

2) The EAR/ONS' name is already in the case files.

3) Someone close to him knows definitively who the EAR/ONS is because of either incriminating statements or actions made by the suspect -OR- because they have seen the items taken from the victims of the EAR/ONS.

We're all waiting for the CODIS cold hit. There is the backlog of DNA that has yet to be entered into CODIS so there is always a possibility of a cold hit. The one snag that has been revealed is the crack in the Federal prison system. The fact that TK's DNA has not been obtained and entered into the system reveals a much larger problem. If the EAR was sitting in a Federal pen somewhere, we'd never know it.

Investigators are culling through the case files in search of ALL of the old EAR suspects. If the EAR's name is in there, they will eventually find it. That is only a matter of time. I personally believe that an offender as prolific as the EAR/ONS would have been stopped and questioned on at least one occasion.

If, for whatever reason, the EAR/ONS has managed to keep his DNA out of the CODIS (as well as any family members) -AND- his name is NOT in any case file, then the only way that he can be identified is by information provided by the public at large. As you all know, there has been a tremendous amount of case information released within the last couple of years.

Det. Crompton's book "Sudden Terror" has revealed, for the first time, the full extent of the EAR/ONS' crimes as well as his M.O. and Signature. TV programs such as A&E Cold Case Files and THS Investigates have also put out important case facts. The A&E Discussion Board as well as the ear-ons website and JJ's "Casebook of the Bedroom Killer" have also disseminated important case info.

Despite all of that, we have not done enough. This case is still unsolved. Much, much more has to be done. The case needs wider publicity. The one tip that we are all waiting for has not come in. I have noticed that no one has come forward who knows 100% who the EAR/ONS is. Someone else HAD TO KNOW or strongly suspect that their ex-boyfriend, ex-husband, son, brother etc. was the EAR. That person needs to clear their conscience and come forward for the sake of the many victims of the EAR/ONS.

There were a couple of cases that recently came to mind where someone KNEW that their family member was the perpetrator of a crime. These people who ABSOLUTELY KNEW said NOTHING to law enforcement and allowed their family member to continue to be a threat to society. In one particular case, the family members lied and obstructed the investigation. It is sickening to think that there is someone out there who KNOWS 100% who the EAR/ONS is but refuses to come forward and provide investigators with his identity.

Recall that David Kaczynski had a similar dilemma once he came to believe that Ted Kacsynski was the Unabomber (based on the nutso manifesto). DK had a conscience and probably saved lives. There is no doubt that TK would still be killing today if not arrested and incarcerated. But then there are people like Joseph Hirshfield, who kept his mouth shut all those years about his low-life murderer brother. He chose the easy way out once the truth was known. What a dirtbag. Good luck with clearing your conscience in the afterlife. Eternity is a long time to carry the guilt of not doing the right thing in this life. He won't be resting in peace.

This may be the reason that the EAR/ONS stopped in 1986. Perhaps he promised the person who knew of his crimes that he would "get help" and never commit another crime. Most of us would not believe that scenario was possible. Sadly, it is possible.

I appeal to the person who KNOWS 100% WITHOUT A DOUBT who the EAR/ONS is. Please come forward and provide his name. You can remain anonymous. You will provide the victims with a measure of closure that they need. You will also leave this life with a clear conscience.

Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76

Recent Replies

Re: June 18, 1976 - 35 Years Ago Today
You revealed his identity multiple times in that post, sir.

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By Cimmerian10

Response from f1guyus

Thinking out loud about CODIS and familial DNA
If EAR himself is arrested in California this CODIS deal is a lock, right? But if he is arrested by the feds there may not be a connection made, right? And a familial DNA hit requires a specific request from an involved LE agency directed at a specific individual, right? So if a family member gets arrested and nobody makes a request for a CODIS run (for whatever reason) the deal stays just like it is right now. Right? Nothing with familial DNA is automatic like you see on TV. I'm sure hoping the cold case guys are pushing all the buttons they can but with the fiscal situation here there may not be a lot done on cold cases. Sacramento DA Jan Scully was all over TV this week telling the people of Sacramento County what the DA's office could no longer afford to do. Bad news for the cold cases. Arch, the way thi guy is gonna be found is when he dies and a family member "discovers" he's the EAR/ONS, comes forward like people do all the time re Zodiac and try for a book/movie deal.

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By f1guyus

Response from akwilks

Re: June 18, 1976 - 35 Years Ago Today

All those NOW arrested on federal charges SHOULD have their DNA drawn and put into CODIS. The glitch we discovered was that those arrested prior to 2004 who have LIFE sentences would NOT have had DNA taken. This is because most federal crimes did not require a DNA draw, and once the expanded laws were passed, they set DNA draws upon arrival at prison or when set for release. So, several hundred of the worst offenders, like TK, escaped DNA draws, which is why the FBI now has to get a court order in the Tylenol case. I did alert the FBI, the Prisons and several Congressman of this problem, and they all agreed it was an error that needed to be corrected. Hopefully it will be corrected soon, and several hundred violent federal offenders will have their DNA put into the system.

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By akwilks

Response from Archangel76

CODIS "Cold Hit", Etc.

F1guyus,

A CODIS "cold hit" is the least likely way that this case will be solved. The EAR/ONS was smart enough to know that if his DNA showed up anywhere else in the system, his goose is cooked. A familial hit is even less likely unless you have a "like father, like son" situation.

The EAR/ONS' name turning up in a case file is the most likely way this case will be solved. The problem is that it will be in the earliest of case files ie prior to June 1976. The EAR's earliest crime spree needs to be located. It might be Visalia. If it is Visalia, we're in trouble because so far, they have not identified the Ransacker as of yet.

So that leaves someone from the public coming forward with definitive information on the identity of the EAR/ONS. Even though this case has received a lot of publicity recently, we have not reached critical mass. Much more work has to be done in this area. Too bad that AMW is has been cancelled.

I think you're right, F1guyus, about someone coming forward after the fact just like in the Zodiac case. I hope that is not how this turns out but, so far, that is where we seem to be headed...

Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76

Response from Archangel76

Federal Guidelines

AK,

I hope the Feds get their stuff together and close that loophole. There are other crimes which could be solved besides this one. I still do not get how any dirtball convict in a Federal Prison has more rights and legal protections then the average citizen. I thought that was a thing of the past with the passage of the Patriot Act. Shows how naive I am.

Next thing you'll be telling me is that Federal prisoners can still vote and run for public office...

Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76

Response from f1guyus

Funny You Should Mention Running for Public Office
The former Sheriff of San Joaquin County who was convicted of a couple felonies for his part in a sort of extortion racket has petitioned the court to have his record expunged so he can run for some as yet unnamed office. He's totally unrepentant.

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By f1guyus

Response from DougW

Visalia
I would like to know if anyone is working the Visalia cases? Just like the Goleta cases, LE will not admit that they are related until DNA match.

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By DougW

Response from Peterlee

Re: June 18, 1976 - 35 Years Ago Today

Guys what about these two shows to get EAR/ONS tips.

1. Coast to Coast AM (They had a show on the Zodiac where they had all the experts on.)

2. Piers Morgan Tonight

( Piers is the guy that took over from Larry King). I had sent several emails to Larry King Live. I got only responses like "We will look into it" then nothing. Maybe Larry was afraid of this guy.

Edited by Peterlee, 2 years ago
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By Peterlee

Response from Cimmerian10

Re: June 18, 1976 - 35 Years Ago Today
Coast to Coast AM sounds good. Also, you might want to look in to Michael Savage. He broadcasts his show from the Bay Area and had a good segment on Zodiac. Plus he is an All-American Patriot, unlike Piers Morgan, who I really don't like. He doesn't belong.

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By Cimmerian10

Response from Archangel76

Why Did the EAR Wait So Long...

I was re-reading Det. Crompton's account of the first EAR attack in his book, "Sudden Terror." One thing struck me as I re-read it. Victim #1's father had been gone for about a month before the EAR decided to attack.

A question that comes to mind is: why did the EAR wait so long before attacking? Is this the first indication that he DID NOT live in Rancho Cordova (as Prof. Rossmo suggests). Did he, instead, live in Carmichael and returned to Rancho Cordova (as part of his employment ie construction or stationed at Mather AFB or visiting friends)? When checking up on victim #1, he discovered that her father was away and it was time for him to act?

It would seem to me that if he lived in Rancho Cordova, he could have checked up on #1 regularly and would have learned that she was alone much earlier that June of 1976. Is that what gave him the impetus to carry out his attack? I do not believe that #2 received any hang-up phone calls. Does that mean that was a spur of the moment attack once he learned she would be alone?

His second attack seemed to indicate that he lived in Carmichael. There was a smaller window of opportunity. Also, his probable presence at the "town hall meeting" indicates that he was living in the Carmichael area. The "crime prevention" seminar was not (to my knowledge) advertised in the newspapers.

I would like to know how it was advertised...

Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76

Response from Peterloo

Re: June 18, 1976 - 35 Years Ago Today

Good points Arch. Most people on the old board were focused on the Rancho Cordova area. Probably we were indirectly influenced by the fact that some criminals first attacked in areas where they are most familiar with. If this guy was in Carmichael he may have been living with relatives. I doubt he was listed in the telephone book. But maybe banks in the area may have had his address if he had an account at a bank close to where he lived. Geting a bank to release that information may be next to impossible.

Edited by Peterlee, 2 years ago
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By Peterlee

Response from SpeakelOfEngrish

Re: Why Did the EAR Wait So Long...

I've begun reading Sudden Terror again as well, taking notes on each attack, largely for the purpose of determining where the EAR may have lived on the basis of those attacks to which he most likely brought a car, and other factors (such as those to which you allude).

Something that's fairly interesting is that he stole the victim's vehicles in three (if I recall correctly) separate instances, and these instances occurred in each of the locations where attacks were clustered: north Carmichael/south Citrus Heights (near Del Campo HS), La Riviera, and Rancho Cordova.

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By SpeakelOfEngrish


Response from ladyofthelake
 
Three Ways to solve case

"As I see it, there are only 3 ways in which this case can be closed:

1) A CODIS cold hit.

2) The EAR/ONS' name is already in the case files.

3) Someone close to him knows definitively who the EAR/ONS is because of either incriminating statements or actions made by the suspect -OR- because they have seen the items taken from the victims of the EAR/ONS."

In re to #3: Have LE or any arm-chair detectives ever released a list or photographs of the items EAR/ONS stole? I've read about the curio cabinet, lamp, stamps, piggy banks, etc., but have not seen any visual media posted.

"I appeal to the person who KNOWS 100% WITHOUT A DOUBT who the EAR/ONS is. Please come forward and provide his name. You can remain anonymous. You will provide the victims with a measure of closure that they need. You will also leave this life with a clear conscience."

If someone does know or suspect they know the EAR/ONS, they'll undoubtedly read Sudden Terror. Hopefully, when they do, they'll be horrified and disgusted enough to turn him in.

If someone's found to be harboring a fugitive, will they be charged with crimes as well?

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By ladyofthelake

Response from Peterlee

Re: June 18, 1976 - 35 Years Ago Today
What we have to hope for is a partial DNA hit in the familial DNA search that will put us in the right direction. We have to be careful though. The Bible John investigation in Britain went nowhere even after a partial familial DNA hit.

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By Peterlee

Re: Why Did the EAR Wait So Long...
Posted By: DanCartell

It could be that he needed to build himself up to the crime, (remember he also tried to build himself up to kill ,the Goleta couple who escaped, by muttering "I will kill them" pacing in their hallway) , given that this was probably his first rape; also there was around a month gap between rape 1 and the second victim this could indicate he was cautious about his activities in the early days and wasn't yet as confident/arrogant as later on when there were short intervals between rapes.

Edited by DanCartell, 2 years ago
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By DanCartell

Response from Peterlee

Good observations

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By Peterlee

[Drifter]

Topic: Goleta 1 (Failed) Attack Where Couple Got Away + Visalia Ransacker

Poster: Archangel76

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October 1, 1979

The EAR attacked his first couple in Goleta, CA 32 years ago today. After a failed attack in Danville on July 5th, 1979, the EAR appears in Southern CA. He seemed to be unprepared for this attack. Apparently, he did not have a firearm with him and he used a knife taken from the victim's home. He altered his M.O. in this attack, failing to stack dishes on the male and he also changed the type of ligatures that he would commonly use.

He did this on purpose so that law enforcement would not link him to these crimes. There was a reason. Unfortunately, the SBSD fell for this rather lame ruse and refused to acknowledge that the EAR was now in Santa Barbara. Because the EAR lost control of the crime scene, they posited that the crime could not have been committed by the EAR because "the EAR never lost control of a crime scene". That kind of circular reasoning allowed the EAR to continue unabated for at least 6 more years and claim the lives of 10 victims.

This circular reasoning delayed the real investigation in Santa Barbara for 32 years. At least they cleared this matter up and hopefully, it will lead to a break-through.

www.jjmcgr.org/BK/Clippings/791010.pdf

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By Archangel76

Response from ZForce(to dengas)

Re: My question still stands
Posted By: dengas
Where are the missing 31? Those who have stated 125 must have more knowledge of the VR activities than has been made available to the public.

Well being that the source of each is the same person, you should probably ask them....but it's pretty clear that the source found at least 31 other crimes that may have been VR, but weren't solid enough to add to the timeline.
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By ZForce

Response from dengas

I was told..."125."

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By dengas

Response from ZForce

Posted By: dengas
I was told..."125."

Right. And at the bottom of the above listed timeline is where that figure came from.

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By ZForce

Response from ZForce (to DanCartell)


Posted By: DanCartell

peculiarities about this attack, although having read the few lines in the newspaper clip its pretty clear it was our guy , .............. There is something interesting that hit me: in 1976 EAR was active throughout the summer months , yet in 1977 and 78 he took a summer break..........where was he? I thought maybe on holiday or visiting relatives/family somewere . This got me thinking given that he turned up in Goleta (as opposed to any of the small nice towns which span the California coastline) and tried to alter his MO there is probably something to his behaviour- obviously he didnt want a link to be made to Sacramento (assuming there werent many people in Goleta linked to Sacramento anyone who knew him would have put 2 and 2 together if news had spread that a certain Sacramento rapist was at work in Goleta), hence its likely he had friends or relatives as some have suggested. What also struck me was that the attack on Offermann and Alexandria Manning was the only attack he made in between Christmas and new year..which kind of reinforces the theory of him having some family connection to Goleta . I strongly feel Goleta could be key to unmasking EAR (pun intended!). Goleta was not that big back then and if SBSD had realised it was EAR they could simply have asked local people to only provide leads about young men who had a connection to Sacramento and someone close to/or who knew EAR could have lead to the break in the case.

Another really huge lead I feel was the dog (this also brings us back its odd connection to certain local criminal), I am curious as to how thoroughly the dog angle was investigated as it could have produced interesting information at the very least ........


Dan, maybe nothing but I believe there were no VR attacks in July/August of '75. Pretty much only students and teachers would only have these months off year after year.
Allow me to correct myself....VR vacations in 1974 from 6/23 to 9/14. In 1975 from 5/31 to 7/25. Unless VR and EAR like spending their summers alone together, this has gotta be one red hot piece of circumstantial evidence that they are one and the same.

By ZForce

Response from ZForce

Re: Re: Re: there were quite a few
Posted By: ZForce
Posted By: ZForce
Posted By: DanCartell

In summer 1979 he takes off to become ONS in SoCal, and he isnt particulary active in summer 1980 either. The only time VR, EAR, and ONS have strong summer activity is 1976 when the EAR attacks began in Sac.

By ZForce

Response from fumanchuc
a theory.

what if he met some girl got married moved to socal..tried to resist his sick urges..couldnt.. evolved to murder.to busy trying to hide past from wife..maybe when he had time... for instance..times when wife went out of town or he had an excuse for not being home..committed ons crimes..just a thought.

Edited by fumanchuc, 2 years ago
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By fumanchuc

[Drifter]

Topic: The Illogic Of Ted Kaczynski As The EAR/ONS

Poster: Archangel76

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The Illogic Will Never End

AkWilks and his ilk want us to believe that TK travelled 2,129 to commit a serial rape in Northern CA and travelled back to Chicago, Ill in time to work with his father and brother. He travels to other parts of Northern CA to plant bombs and commit all sorts of Zodiac-like crimes (which do not involve serial rape).

He travels to different parts of the United States to plant the bombs connected to the crimes for which he has confessed to but spends his money travelling back to Northern CA to commit the EAR crimes and then inexplicably starts to travel back and forth to Southern CA to commit the ONS crimes (while continuing to travel all over the U.S. to plant bombs and commit all of the other myriad of crimes that AkWilks and his ilk imagine he had the time and money to do). For whatever reasons, he stopped serial raping in Northern CA, never to offend there again in favor of committing serial rape and murder in Southern, CA, altering him M.O. for reasons unknown. (And wearing some really silly looking shoes used to outrun sheriff's deputies and FBI agents while making them think he wears a Size 9 shoe when he wears a Size 10 1/2).

If that wasn't enough, he continues planting the bombs BUT STOPS COMMITTING SERIAL RAPE in 1981 until 1986. After 1986, he continues making and planting bombs, but altogether stops raping and murdering people even though he was free to do so until his arrest in 1996.

Don't bother explaining how TK could be in Chicago and Modesto on the same day. That would require more elaborate illogic. Even if he could travel TO AND FROM Modesto in time, it is absurd to think that he would. (And then do the same thing the next day).

Do not bother trying to pull the EAR A/EAR B/EAR C nonsense that you mentioned before. It won't work. The EAR had a very specific M.O. That is how investigators knew what crimes the EAR committed and what crimes his "copycats" committed. There was something very specific that he made the victims do. The copycats didn't know this and neither do you that is why you would try to make the argument that it was a copycat on June 23rd when, in fact, it was the EAR. Not TK. And how convenient it would be for you to have a copycat hit on a day when it could be demonstrably proven that TK was in Chicago. (And during one of the few months that the creep was actually employed - an active month for the EAR).

Do not bother explaining how victims describe the EAR as having a "broad, muscular chest" and muscular arms in 1978 and TK having a scrawny. dillweed's build in that picture you keep passing around as "evidence. " Forget the absurdity of a 36 year old paranoid schizo outrunning deputies while wearing magical double-shoes. The only thing missing from that scenario is the aluminum foil hat.

Don't bother explaining how TK got around after arriving in Modesto AND Davis by bus or plane. I supposed that in addition to being an accomplished cat burglar/serial rapist/murderer/bomber, TK was also an adept car thief who not only stole vehicles, but got them back to their owners before they even knew they were missing Yell.

Also, when did TK ever have time to shower? He certainly didn't have the time or money to get a motel room and get cleaned up before he committed multiple burglaries before settling on a victim. Only one victim mentioned that the EAR had B.O.

Please take your travelling carny act sideshow to the next discussion board. Better yet, create your own "TK has committed all of the unsolved crimes known to man" board and keep posting there until the DNA results come back negative.

Edited by Archangel76, 3 years ago
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By Archangel76

Response from Cimmeriam10

Re: The Illogic Will Never End

EAR was described as having the build of a swimmer or a runner.

For comparison, here is a picture of Michael Phelps

www.drfunkenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/michael_phelps_2.jpg

here is a picture of Ted Kaczynski, shirtless

media.kickstatic.com/kickapps/images/119137/photos/PHOTO_9362810_119137_16673969_ap_320X240.jpg

Another pic of Phelps:

4.bp.blogspot.com/_ZZ-CqtHjAnk/SKwa6Tuo5RI/AAAAAAABLRE/BrY8PZvjA1k/s400/MICHAEL+PHELPS.jpg

They have the same build. Michael Phelps is a lot taller than Ted K and has a heavier skeletal frame. Both would be described has having muscular arms and chest. They aren't meatheads, and of course the average morbidly obese, degenerate American might feel inclined to call them "scrawny dilweeds".

The EAR was just like them. Elongnated build, low bodyfat, like a swimmer or a runner or a cyclist (not surprisingly, both Ted K and EAR were fond of bicycles).

When did TK have time to shower? In the hours, days, weeks, months and years when he was not committing attacks, perhaps? Perhaps he just washed himself with a rag and a bar of soap and some water? Perhaps he used some of the thousands of dollars he had to get a motel room? Perhaps he used some of the many public bathing facilities at our National Parks? Perhaps he, a burglar, slipped in to people's houses when they weren't around and showered?

It doesn't require "elaborate logic" to understand how airplanes work.

How does paranoid schizophrenia interfere with one's ability to run? Do you even know what paranoid schizophrenia is?

Who says TK wore those shoes at every single EAR/ONS attack?

Why wouldn't TK have time? He had no job, no commitments other than food, water, and heat (when he was in Montana). His parents sent him money all the time, and he was a burglar. The EAR stole 1500 dollars in the 1970s. TK got thousands of dollars over the years, and made thousands of dollars teaching at Berkeley which he saved.

Edited by Cimmerian10, 3 years ago
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By Cimmerian10

Response from Cimmerian10

Re: The Illogic Will Never End

I forgot to add one thing, Ted K. was not and is not a paranoid schizophrenic. Evaluations that he is is PS were demonstrated to be unwarranted by other doctors, and, if you just read about Ted it's obvious he isn't a PS. The prosecution team and other psychologists realized this. Almost everything you think you know about Ted Kaczynski is a lie.

Edited by Cimmerian10, 3 years ago
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By Cimmerian10

Response from Archangel76

Aluminum Foil Hats

So your contention is that TK flew 2,129 miles to Modesto and committed the EAR attack (it happened at 1:30am), flew back 2,129 miles to Chicago to fill out an application at Foam Cutting Engineers, got back on a plane and flew 2, 070 to commit the EAR attack in Davis and fly back 2,070 to Chicago to work on the June 26th (even though he was staying with his parents)?

How's that tin foil hat working out for you?

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By Archangel76

Response from akwilks

Re: The Illogic Will Never End

One of the top researchers in the case has shown by good evidence that there was at least an EAR A, an EAR B and at least one EAR copycat. And there were other rapists active at the time in North Cal, including ski masked and home invasion rapists. There are differences among researchers and multiple police agencies about which attacks are likely EAR and which are not. The bottom line is that is NOT a DNA rape, so we don't know for sure if it was the EAR/ONS DNA rapist.

Also, you do know that FCE was a family owned business that Ted's brother managed, and thus Ted would have access at the home and office to all company paperwork, documents, timesheets, etc.? Did you know that? Did you know that on the day when the Unabomber was planting a bomb in Utah, bank records show Ted Kaczynski making a personal deposit in his bank account in Montana? Some have speculated that this could mean Ted had an accomplice or there was a screw up in bank records. Both are possible but unlikely. More likely IMO is that Ted created a fake date on the bank record, to provide him with an alibi for the bombing. Gee, do you think since he had access to all company records and time sheets, and was a genius known to forge letters and documents, he could have faked something?

Also, Ted K did bombings in California, New Jersey, Conn., Utah and Washington,sometimes within days of each other. He viewed the whole country as his to attack. He could get anywhere he wanted quickly by bus, car or plane.

Stop foaming at the mouth with your nonsense and lies. Do your own research. Tell us why EAR didn't kill Maggiore. If you don't like it here leave. I ain't going anywhere.

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By akwilks

Response from Cimmerian10

Re: The Illogic Will Never End
The bank deposit. God, why didn't I think of this? Arch, why didn't you think of this? Ted's parents owned the foam company. He could have easily falsified documents. He has a history of doing this.

Ted's was erratic during his short-lived stay in Lombard. He skipped work frequently. His family didn't know where he was most of the time and the press was unable to conclusively determine when he left and what he was doing there.

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By Cimmerian10

Response from Archangel76

Headgames

Cim10,
When the TK DNA tests comes back negative for EAR/ONS, maybe then you will realize how absurd and ridiculous your TK apologetics were. Maybe. Maybe not. If I truly believed that TK was this evil super genius responsible for all of these horrendous crimes from 1963 on forward, I would have already had his or his brother's DNA tested. But that's just me. The longer it goes without his DNA tested, the longer you can play this headgame (which you do not actually believe).

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By Archangel76

Response from Cimmerian10

Re: The Illogic Will Never End

Why can't you believe it? We already know TK is an evil super-genius. A lot of evidence has indicated he is responsible for crimes he hasn't been convicted of, yet. I don't think you understand his psychology. It is closer to that of a mass murderer's, rather than a typical "serial killer" or a terrorist.

The whole point of Kaczynski's "amoralism" is that he is "suicidal" but he has a great deal of rage built up inside of him. He wants to get revenge. He wrote in his diaries that he wanted to kill people who he hated, and if he was spotted, he would "get in to a shootout with the cops and die with glory".

The EAR placed himself in these types of scenarios multiple times and shot one cop who shot at him, a citizen who chased him, and he ran from the cops multiple times. The EAR seems to have a deathwish like Kaczynski. He seemed to go out of his way to be daring and risky. He didn't care about whether or not he lived or died or whether he got hurt.

Anyway, so far, AK Wilks, myself and others have investigated Ted for a grand total of around sixty murders, give or take. I believe it's possible he did more, he is being investigated for other crimes which haven't been posted here or anywhere else yet. That isn't outside the realm of possibility at all, especially back in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s - violent times in America.

When you guys say "you are looking at Ted for every unsolved murder that ever occurred" it sounds so idiotic and immature. Do you have any idea how many unsolved homicides occurred in the USA from 1960-1996?

Ted was a psychopath full of unspeakable rage. He didn't kill a measly three people and he most certainly did not kill by bomb alone.

Edited by Cimmerian10, 3 years ago
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By Cimmerian10

Response from Archangel76

Prove it
And it takes a super-sleuth to foil a super evil genius and that, I suppose, is where you guys come in. All of the investigators from 1963 to date all missed all of this obvious "evidence." . If TK is responsible for all the murders that you say he is, prove it. Contact David Kaczynski and have him voluntarily provide a DNA sample. Have Paul Holes obtain the DNA profile obtained from the envelope that TK sent to DK. Do something concrete instead of playing headgames and blowing smoke up everyone's keester.

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By Archangel76

Response from Cimmerian10

TK wouldn't have been a suspect in 63 - or at any time prior to 1996. He hadn't been identified as the Unabomber and his journals and almost all of his property hadn't been unveiled by then. He was a ghost prior to April, 1996. Even then it is obvious as to why some investigators on twnety year old homicides (at that time) might overlook a guy like Ted Kaczynski.

One way or another, his DNA will get tested. I don't know when, I don't talk to the FBI or anyone like that, only AK knows what goes on behind the scenes. I wouldn't trust a sample from David or anywhere else, not because I don't trust David but because it is too risky. Way too easy to get the wrong profile. For there to be proof, DNA HAS to be extracted from Ted Kaczynski himself either in the form of a direct saliva, hair or blood sample taken at the federal ADX supermax prison in Florence, Colorado where he now resides. That's my two cents.

Edited by Cimmerian10, 3 years ago
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By Cimmerian10

Response from Cimmerian10

By the way Arch, you said something earler... That Ted Kaczynski has the "wrong blood type" (EAR/ONS was a nonsecretor). Do you know what his blood type is? AK Wilks told me that investigators DO know his blood type and they are still seeking his DNA. This leads me to believe Ted Kaczynski shares the same rare nonsecretor status with EAR/ONS.

Edited by Cimmerian10, 3 years ago
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By Cimmerian10

Response from Archangel76

Magical Double Shoes

Quoth Cim10: "Who says TK wore those shoes at every single EAR/ONS attack."

There is not a single instance where a shoe size other than 9 were found at ANY of the EAR/ONS crime scenes. TK wheres a Size 10-10 1/2. The Zodiac wears a size 10 1/2. So if TK did not wear his magic double shoes, then you would have found size 10 to 10 1/2 footprints at those EAR crime scens where TK did not wear the magic double shoes.

The EAR left the Size 9 shoe prints at H/H where he was chased by Stan Los. Stan Los did not describe seeing the suspect escaping wearing magic shoes. The EAR/ONS was seen jogging away from Goleta 3. Size 9 shoes were left at that crime scene.

TK is not the EAR/ONS. Get DK's DNA, test it, compare it and stop the headgames.

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By Archangel76

Respone from Cimmerian10

Actually, there was a smaller size shoeprint found at one of the scenes - a size 8 1/2 if I am not mistaken.

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By Cimmerian10

Response from Archangel76

What's Taking Them So Long?
If they are still after his DNA, don't they know where to find TK or DK? TK is not the EAR/ONS.

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By Archangel76

Response from Cimmerian10

Also, there is no official shoe "size". I have size 10 and 12 shoes which I wear all the time. I've done it since I was a kid. Shoes are made of flexible material and it's easy to fit in to something that is a size smaller than what you normally wear.

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By Cimmerian10

Response from Cimmerian10

Anyway, as for what is taking them so long, it's just the economy. The economy is screwed up beyond comprehension and law enforcement is getting cut left and right. Serious budget issues. They don't have a lot of time and money to spend on some unsolved homicides from thirty years ago. It really hasn't taken too long, I think you are just being a little impatient. The last time they ran the EAR's DNA for a familial DNA check was in 2008 - before the recession. Three years ago. AK Wilks already explained this.

Edited by Cimmerian10, 3 years ago
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By Cimmerian10

Response from Archangel76

You Are Mistaken
The 8 1/2 size shoe print was from Visalia. There was no indication that was a shoe print from the Ransacker because Size 9 shoe prints were recovered from known Ransacker crime scenes. the 8 1/2 shoe print was recovered from one crime scene and only one. All other shoe prints were Size 9.

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By Archangel76

Response from Archangel76

How Much Does it Cost to Email

The feds can email the DNA profile developed from the stamp and envelope from the letter TK sent to DK and include or exclude TK on that basis alone. Won't cost them a dime. In fact, they can read the results to Paul Holes over the phone. If he is included, then they can have TK voluntarily provide his DNA or beat it out of him (I really don't care which).

Edited by Archangel76, 3 years ago
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By Archangel76

Response from Archangel76

Try sticking your Size 10 feet into a Size 9 shoe. Then try to outrun younger, more virile deputies. More headgames.

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By Archangel76

Response from Cimmerian10

Well, that should tell you something. Perhaps he wore the false prints. But maybe he didn't. It is definitely possible for someone with a size 10 shoe to wear a size 9. No one ever said that the ONS wore those shoes at any crime scene. The point is that TK made those shoes and they indicate that he committed or was interested in committing an up-close and personal crime like a shooting or a stabbing. They had no use for placing or (especially) mailing bombs.

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By Cimmerian10


Response from Cimmerian10

Re: Try Wearing a Size 8 1/2
Posted By: Archangel76
Cim10,

A tighter shoe would increase stability. How could wearing a slightly smaller shoe affect running speed negatively? Also, Ted was very virile as a 38 year old. His biological age at 38 was probably closer to 25. He aged very well and was very physically fit, probably fitter than the deputies - and he lived off of a diet of wild meat which he killed himself.

And unlike the deputies, he got a head start.

It isn't a headgame, you just aren't thinking (or being honest).

Edited by Cimmerian10, 3 years ago
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By Cimmerian10

[Drifter]

Topic: Car License Number TOR 505 (Del Dayo Area, Sacramento)

Poster: Archangel76

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

October 17, 1976 - Keane Drive

Suspicious vehicle seen in the vicinity of Keane Drive in the Del Dayo area of Carmichael at approx. 6:30am 35 years ago today. The driver of the vehicle was described as a white male with straight blonde hair in his middle 20's but could be old as 30.

Vehicle license number TOR 505 came back to a mid-to-late 60's model Oldsmobile Coupe. Investigators determined (through Field Interrogation cards) that the driver of the vehicle was a drug trafficker who frequented the area. Based on that, they determined that he was not involved in the EAR attack that occurred the next day.

In trying to follow up on that information, it was determined that the "drug trafficker" died in February of 1976 and therefore could not possibly be the person driving the vehicle on 10/17/76. As mentioned in another post, the vehicle registration records no longer exist and ownership of the vehicle cannot be tracked.

There is a strong likelihood that it was the EAR driving that vehicle and he has, once again, escaped identification by the intervention of fate.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIohO5iDPr0

Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76

Response from guessting

Nicely done..
Flag

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By guessting

Response from DanCartell

Question
Do you know what the "drug trafficker" died of ?

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By DanCartell

Response from Archangel76

Re: Question
Posted By: DanCartell
Do you know what the "drug trafficker" died of ?

Complications from a suicide attempt.

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By Archangel76

Response from Archangel76

Misidentified Driver of Oldsmobile

If anyone has any information regarding Michael Manier, please contact me via PM.

Manier1

Manier2

I keep saying that he was dead 6 months prior to the Oct. 17, 1976 incident but it is actually 8 months. In the police report, this is the person identified as driving the Oldsmobile Coupe, license #TOR 505 on 10/17/76. So much for police reports and blind adherence to what was written down. It wouldn't have taken much work to determine this information back in 1976. And the case may have been solved in Oct. of 1976. The information that we've developed so far says that the Oldsmobile was sold shortly after Manier's death. In the police report, the vehicle still had the damage from the accident which occurred during the failed bank robbery.

If anyone knows of a way to determine the VIN number of this vehicle, you could very well provide the break that this case so desperately needs.

Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76

Response from ladyofthelake

Re: Misidentified Driver of Oldsmobile
Posted By: Archangel76

If anyone has any information regarding Michael Manier, please contact me via PM.

Was the towing company's name listed on the report?

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By ladyofthelake

Response from Archangel76

Unknown...

Was the towing company's name listed on the report?

LOTL,

As this happened in Oakland, it's difficult to say. I am going to try to find out what information might still exist. Because it was so long ago, the report(s) may have been purged. That is what it's been everywhere else.

Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76

[Drifter]

Topic: Keith & Patrice Harrington

Poster: Archangel76

------------------------------------------------------------------

Aug. 19, 1980 - Remembering Keith & Patrice Harrington

31 years ago Keith and Patrice Harrington's lives were violently taken. My thoughts and prayers are with their families. It seems like an unreasonably long time for anyone or any family to have to wait for justice. We continue to strive to identify the inhuman being who committed these crimes. I am continually encouraged by the investigators who are working this case. Sooner or later, the break that we are all waiting for will come. The Harringtons (through Prop 69) have assisted in many families finding some measure of closure. We can only hope and pray that God will see fit to provide some measure of closure to the many victims and their families in this case.

Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76

Response from guessting

Re: Aug. 19, 1980 - Remembering Keith & Patrice Harrington

Repo, You are right..It will only take a couple of minutes. Like Arch said, he is in the process of changing and correcting several things. Arch, I think I just might join you on that fishing trip and I don't fish! But it does sound like something I may look into. Thanks for the reply repo..

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By guessting

Response from Repoman

LOL
Posted By: guessting
Repo, You are right..

You and Arch are the king and queen of I will post more later when I find the time. Sorry that you find my simple requests so annoying that you need to go on vacation.

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By Repoman

Response from guessting

Repo,
I actually find you quite refreshing. I always need a vacation but not because of you, silly!

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By guessting

Response from Repoman

Glad To Hear It

Hear is a post of yours from about a year ago:

"I have come to the conclusion that some of the many and details of this case I have held back might not be worth their weight in secrecy. I will be posting more information in the next few weeks. g "

Do you still feel the same way, and if so when can we expect you to post this new information? Afterall, another year has already gone by.

Edited by Repoman, 2 years ago
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By Repoman

Response from guessting

Yes, I do feel the same way. And I have shared much of that information. And again you are right..another year has gone by. Hopefully information will continue to be shared responsibly. There are some things that in my opinion should be cautiously shared and this board has not always been a good choice of a format for those more private and personal things. As with most things I speak, this again, is just my opinion. I share many things with many people on this board as well as many outside of this board. Some things just are not appropriate content for this board. I do agree we must share information in order to solve this case. Wisdom must be exercised and at this point I defer these decisions to those wiser than I. There are many, much wiser individuals, I have met on my journey here. Their wisdom keeps the focus off of all unimportant things except...what i believe is ALWAYS in the best interest of this case. G

Edited by guessting, 2 years ago
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By guessting

Response from Archangel76

Repoman,

Fixing a few "typos" on the website is the least of my concerns. The website is due for a major overhaul and update. So while updating the location of some of the EAR attacks may take a few minutes, the major overhaul will probably take at least a month. The fact that you know the proper locations indicates that the information is already available for anyone who is truly concerned.

If somehow the errant dates are, in fact, confusing anyone, then I can always be reached by email. If anyone has any questions about that or other outstanding issues (such as the Maggiore composites or the THS Investigates composites) then they can always get answers here.

If I felt that you were annoying, I simply would not answer your post. As much as I would like to sit back and tinker with websites, there is an ever growing list of tips, case leads and suspects that come in. Most of our time is spent following up information.

I do agree with you that those issues need to be corrected. But, again, they are a low priority for me. The composite information on the website is what bothers me most. It is outdated (even since the last update). I also want to post the other composite sketches with background information on how they came about. I will need to get an o.k. before that information is posted. We still need to get proper clearance for some information.

I post here to continue to let the victims and their families (yes, they read posts here) that we are still on the job and working to identify the EAR/ONS and bring him to justice. I also post here to clear up any case misconceptions as again, potential witnesses have come here looking for answers even before the website was put up.

Det. Crompton's book, "Sudden Terror" is now the real source for accurate case information not the EAR/ONS website. That is why his book is prominently featured on the website. Much more detailed information written by someone who is intimately involved in the investigation.

Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76

[Drifter]

Topic: Links To Biondi Testimony

Poster: Archangel76

-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Note from Drifter ... only one of the following links still works]

Lt. Biondi Testifies...

www.sacbee.com/2012/09/26/4855268/ex-sheriffs-officer-biondi-testifies.html

Relevance to this case? Biondi investigated the Maggiore murders. You can decide how competent an investigator you think he is based on his testimony as it relates to the Sweetheart murders. Apparently, he came to the conclusion that Hunt and Co. were not responsible for the murders of Riggins and Gonsalves. He also came to the conclusion that two people were involved in the murders of the Maggiores. Just food for thought.

Related links:

blogs.sacbee.com/crime/archives/2012/09/criminalist-testifies-about-key-discovery-in-sweethearts-case.html

www.sacbee.com/2012/09/25/4851344/uc-davis-sweethearts-trial-puts.html

www.sacbee.com/2012/09/07/4795860/warrant-issued-stayed-for-detective.html

By Archangel76

Response from dengas

I haven't yet read.  But I'm happy to see that you are still coming to the board. Hello, Archangel 76.

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By dengas

Response from Bear99

Re: Lt. Biondi Testifies...
My personal opinion is Biondi is sub par. I think the effort was there, but that's it.

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By Bear99

Response from Archangel76

Posted By: dengas
But I'm happy to see that you are still coming to the board. Hello, Archangel 76.

Hello, dengas. I just wanted to post this important piece of information as it is somewhat related to the EAR/ONS case.

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By Archangel76

Response from f1guyus

Biondi
Little too much TV time for my tastes.

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By f1guyus

[Drifter]

Topic: Articles On Smith Murders

Poster: Archangel76

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

March 13, 1980 - Lyman and Charlene Smith

Port already posted some articles on the Smith's murders. Here are some additional articles. The first articles appeared in newspapers on March 17, 1980.

Ventura1-1

Ventura1-2

Ventura1-3

Ventura2

Ventura3


Edited by Archangel76, 1 year ago
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By Archangel76

Response from dengas

Copper threads? Just curious...have the origins of that type rope been determined?

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By dengas

Response from Archangel76

Posted By: dengas
Copper threads? Just curious...have the origins of that type rope been determined?

I know so little about the homicides in Southern CA. Because those were open investigations, I knew not to ask too many questions.

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By Archangel76

Response from Warren

Third marriage
I noticed in one of the recent articles (thanks Archangel!) it said Charlene was in her second marriage. I believe her marriage to Lyman was her third marriage. I'm sure the authorities would know that, though.

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By Warren

Response from lawstudent1

Murder weapon
I remember reading in the FDLE profile that after the Smith murders, ONS began taking the murder weapon with him after reading newspaper accounts. I am confused as to why he would do this, since the weapon usually always came from the house anyway: (Smiths - Log; Harrington- possible sprinkler head in yard; Witthuhn - possible crystal curio from home; Domingo/Sanchez - ?; Cruz - wrench from home). If the murder weapons came from the home, why did he remove them, because it is not likely that they would yield enough evidence to be traced back to him? To the contrary, it would be more risky if he was caught with them in his possession.

Edited by lawstudent1, 1 year ago
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By lawstudent1

Re: Murder weapon
Posted By: lawstudent1

Response from Repoman

Who knows why he took the murder weapon. He was clearly trying to confuse investigators by taking the bindings. I don't think that he kept the murder weapon or the bindings for long, my best guess is that he dumped them in the bottom of a trash can a block or two away with the rest of his "kit" before returning to his vechile. This would minimize the chance of being caught with anything. This theory is supported by the fact that in the Sacramento rapes he often had a different mask and weapon. I think he was very careful and that he dumped the kit soon after each crime so that if he was stopped there would be nothing on him to connect to the crimes. I think he took the bindings and the murder weapon in an attempt to hide his MO. Ironically taking the ligatures and weapon then became his signature.

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By Repoman

Response from JWBTXS

Murder weapon....
there is nothing confusing about this guys motive for removal of murder weapons...mementos maybe...so he could"spank" while he viewed the every trinquet he could touch all the while reliving the memories of what he had created.....It still gets to me ...all the planning ..all the peeping.. all the surveillance this guy had to have done....he left the crime scenes so sloppy....almost anti-climax....this guy was "boo scary"...

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By JWBTXS

Response from Repoman

bender
Crude post, but interesting point. He very well might of kept the weapons as souvenirs.

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By Repoman

Response from Warren

6-23-78
I believe that in the 6-23-78 rape in North East Modesto, the pistol he took from the residence was found about a mile and a half away, it may have been weeks after that it was found. Pamill or Pamilla Dr was where it was found (from ST).

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By Warren

Response from erikdavid

Re: March 13, 1980 - Lyman and Charlene Smith
But what would be his motivation for taking the murder weapon and dumping it if it was not connected to him in any way? Why not just leave it there?

Makes me think even more that this guy was THE all-time loner. I can't imagine a guy with a spouse or a family getting home in the dead of night to wash off a bloody pipe wrench, fire poker, sprinkler head etc.

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By erikdavid5111

Response from Peterlee

Re: March 13, 1980 - Lyman and Charlene Smith
After reading this I was thinking two things.

1. The EAR/ONS did not need guns.

2. He did not have a secure place to store stolen guns.

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By Peterlee

Response from erikdavid

Let's not forget how many times he either shot at people or SHOT them!  This guy was a wuss any way you cut it.

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By erikdavid5111

Response from erikdavid

This guy NEEDED a gun. The only way he got away with most of this * is because he was the big man with the gun. The simple way to get this guy off his ground was to NOT do what he said. Therefore he needed a gun for whenever this might happen. Greg Sanchez and Robert Offerman would have surely beat him down, knife, club or whatnot if he hadn't had a gun. Even Janelle probably could have gotten the upper hand. A middle aged housewife survived his wimpy club blows simply because she continued to defy him.

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By erikdavid5111

Response from Peterlee

This guy had access to guns but I don't think they were his own guns. Most likely he was using a relative's guns. So he threw that stolen gun away because he had no place to store it. Seems to me that this perp was staying in and guarding a relative's house at night.

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By Peterlee

Response from Warren

I wonder...

After reading the newspaper articles, I wonder if this was perhaps one of few (if there were others) where EAR actually knew his victim(s) long before their murders. If I read these articles correctly, he bound the victims after he killed them and then removed the bindings? Why do that? And there was no forced entry? And nothing taken? We know it was EAR, but was EAR someone Charlene knew from the past and he was out for revenge?
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Edited by Warren, 1 year ago
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By Warren

Response from Drifter

The Ultimate Loner

Thanks very much to Arch for the articles! Interesting reading ...

And interesting comments too.

Warren: " ... was EAR someone Charlene knew from the past?"

No, I don't think so. She was just another opportunistic target of a guy who was, in erikdavid's words: " ... THE all-time loner".

Edited by Drifter, 1 year ago
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By Drifter

Response from SammyT

Weapons and binding
Why would he remove the murder weapon? Perhaps just to confuse the investigation or perhaps as a momento.
Why would he bind victims (after he had already killed them) and the unbind them? Perhaps he was 'into' bondage after all and wanted his victims bound for masturbatory purposes or in order to take polaroid photos of them.By the 1980s, EAR-ONS was not offending anywhere near as much as in his EAR days - maybe he wanted lasting momentos like photos to relive the crimes in his own, twisted mind.

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By SammyT

Response from aus sherlock holmes
Re: The Ultimate Loner
Posted By: Drifter

I agree. Such a beautiful woman wouldn't waste any time socializing with a loser like the EAR. It's more likely he spotted her somewhere in public and, because of her beauty, became aroused and began stalking her.

The EAR was either a loner or, more likely, lived with his mother until she passed away in 1986, IMO.
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By aus_sherlock_holmes

[Drifter]

Topic: Maggiori Murders Detailed Timeline And Route

Poster: Archangel76

------------------------------------------------------------

Feb. 2, 1978 - Sgt. Brian & Katie Maggiori Murdered
Maggiore Timeline

I am reposting the timeline of the route that the Maggiores took on 2/2/78. They deviated from their normal walk route as early as 9:02 pm where a suspicious person was seen loitering. They again unexpectedly changed their direction when they reached the corner of La Alegria and La Gloria. This is where I estimated Suspect #1 and #2 to have been in order to have been seen walking down La Gloria Way at the time that they were seen by the witness.

The Maggiores and Suspect #1 and #2 (according to the witnesses and my time estimations) would have encountered each other near the corner of West La Loma Drive and La Gloria Way.

In order to "bump" into the shooter (who is presumed to be the EAR) it would have had to have occurred between 9:07pm and 9:09 pm. Which would mean that the EAR had approx. 2 minutes to ditch his cohort and confront the Maggiores. Someone matching the description of Suspect #2 was seen fleeing the area of the crime minutes after the shooting so he was still in the area.

I am unable to come up with a reasonable alternative explanation as to how Suspect #1 could have committed these crimes alone if he was seen in the company of Suspect #2 minutes before the shooting.

*All times are approximate

8:50 pm - Maggiores left their apartment on La Verta Court to walk their dog.

8:53 pm - They reached the intersection of Malaga Way and La Loma Drive. They continued walking west down Capitales Drive.

8:55 pm - The Maggiores made a right onto La Alegria Drive and continued walking west.

9:02 pm - The Maggiores reached the corner of La Alegria Drive and West La Loma Drive. There was a WMA seen loitering at the corner of West La Loma Drive and La Alegria Drive at the same time. Normally, the Maggiores would have turned left (south) onto West La Loma Drive and turned left again (east) on Capitales Drive and returned home. They instead turned around and walked back east on La Alegria Drive.

9:04 pm - The Maggiores reached the corner of La Alegria Drive and La Gloria Way. They turned around again and headed west down La Alegria Drive for a second time. Suspect #1 and #2 would have been in that area at that same time. Suspects #1 and #2 headed down La Gloria Way.

9:07 pm - The Maggiores reached the corner of La Alegria Drive and West La Loma Drive for the 2nd time. They turned right onto West La Loma Drive (instead of left as they normally would have done). approx. 3 minutes later, the witnesses who saw them heard gunshots.

9:07 pm - Suspect #1 and #2 were seen on La Gloria Way heading west. They were last seen near the corner of La Gloria Way and West La Loma Drive. Approx. 3 minutes later, this witness reported hearing gunshots.

9:10 pm - The Maggiores were shot and found in the backyard of the residence on La Alegria Way.

9:13 pm - An ambulance as well as the Sheriff's Department were called. Both the ambulance and the Sheriff's Department were on the scene in minutes.

Edited by Archangel76, 4 months ago
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By Archangel76

Response from PortofLeith

9:02 to 9:07
Arch- Does this activity mean the Maggiores were backtracking to confirm something or evading someone? I'm confused. Do you still have the overhead map of their course you could post?

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By PortofLeith

Re: 9:02 to 9:07
Posted By: PortofLeith

Response from Archangel76

Port,

I believe that the Maggiores were backtracking to avoid someone. I'll post an overhead map when I get a chance.

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By Archangel76

Posted By: Archangel76

Response from Drifter

Yes, a map would be helpful, showing the streets you reference.

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By Drifter

Response from Archangel76

Overhead Maps

I'll post them as soon as they are approved.

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By Archangel76

Response from Archangel76

Brian Maggiore 1972 Football Game

news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1992&dat=19720928&id=vCtcAAAAIBAJ&sjid=fVUNAAAAIBAJ&pg=6815,3366719

Edited by Archangel76, 4 months ago
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By Archangel76

Response from Archangel76

Brian Maggiore 1974 Swim Team

www.fresnohighalumni.com/sports_swimming2.asp?ID=620

(I hope this is the right Brian Maggiore).

Brian Maggiore 1972

Brian is in the front row, 5th on the right.

Edited by Archangel76, 4 months ago
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By Archangel76

Response from Archangel76

1974 Fresno High School Yearbook

Brian Maggiore 1974

If you have a Classmates.com account, you can view Sgt. Brian Maggiore's senior high school photo. There is a 1972 yearbook available as well.

www.classmates.com/yearbooks/Fresno-High-School/79123

Edited by Archangel76, 4 months ago
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By Archangel76

Response from PortofLeith

Feb. 2, 1978 - Sgt. Brian & Katie Maggiori Murdered



Fresno Bee September 30, 1977



Brian Maggiore, son of Mr. and Mrs. James J. Maggiore of

1529 W. Clinton Ave., has been promoted

to sergeant while serving as

an administrative specialist at Mather

Air Force Base. His wife, Katie, is

the daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Ken

Smith of Clovis. Maggiore is a 1974

Fresno High School graduate and attended

American River College,

Sacramento...

Fresno Bee August 24, 1975

SMITH—MAGGIORE

Mr. and Mrs. Kenneth

Smith are announcing the

engagement of t h e i r

daughter, Katie Lee, to

Brian Keith Maggiore

The b r i d e - e l e c t is

attending McLane High

School.

The engaged man, son

of Mr. and Mrs. James

Maggiore, was graduated

from Fresno High School

and is serving in the United

States Air Force.

A July 17, 1976, wedding

is planned.

Edited by PortofLeith, 4 months ago
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By PortofLeith

Response from Repoman2

This Is An Incredibly Misleading Post

Arch does not know what the Maggiore's path was that night. He is only guessing based on various witness statements which he has groomed to form this guess of what happened that night. This timeline makes a lot of assumptions. One being that everything the witnesses saw that night was relevant to the murder. Another being that all the witnesses were accurate in reporting what they saw. An also exactly when they saw it. Keep in mind most of these witnesses are recounting what they saw from their house looking out onto a dark street. Is it possible that one these witnesses was mistaken about what they saw? Or when they saw it? Is it possible that they saw a man loitering two blocks away and that this person had nothing to do with the murder? Is it possible that several airmen getting high and working on a car in a garage were just minding their own business when the murder happened? We know that when a crime occurs even in broad daylight that witnesses routinely get basic facts wrong. Just ask any cop if he has ever had more than one story from witnesses at a crime scene. So why would we assume that all of these witness statements are correct. Or that they all saw something that was connected to the murder? To make these assumptions and to then present them as fact would seem to be quite foolish in my view. What Arch is presenting as fact is just one of thousands of possibliities of what could of happened that night

Edited by Repoman2, 4 months ago
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By Repoman2

Response from Archangel76

1976 McClane High School Yearbook

Katie Maggiore 1976

You can view Katie (Smith) Maggiore's high school senior photo here (if you have a Classmates.com account):

www.classmates.com/yearbooks/Mclane-High-School/147399

Edited by Archangel76, 4 months ago
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By Archangel76

Response from Archangel76

Normal Route: Overhead Map

This is an overhead view of the normal route that the Maggiores would have walked their dog on (click on image for zoom feature):

Normal Route

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By Archangel76

Response from Archangel76

Approx. 9:02pm - First Deviation from Normal Route

This is the first indication that there was trouble that evening. A witness saw a suspicious male loitering in the area of West La Loma & Capitales. This person was later seen by another witness near the corner of West La Loma and La Alegria (click on image for zoom feature):

902

Edited by Archangel76, 4 months ago
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By Archangel76

Response from Archangel76

Approx. 9:04pm - East on La Alegria

Instead of turning left onto West La Loma and proceeding to Capitales, the Maggiores turned around and walked east on La Alegria (click on image for zoom feature):

904

Edited by Archangel76, 4 months ago
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By Archangel76

Response from Archangel76

9:07pm - Double-back

Instead of proceeding to Capitales Drive and back home, the Maggiores turned around and proceeded west again on La Alegria to West La Loma. The lying airmen in the open garage were at the corner of La Alegria & Capitales where it T-bones. Suspect #1 & #2 would have been in the area of La Gloria & La Alegria based on where the witness first saw them together. Either they came from one of the homes on La Gloria or they walked to La Gloria from La Alegria (click on image for zoom feature):

907

Edited by Archangel76, 4 months ago
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By Archangel76

Response from Archangel76

Approx. 9:07pm - the Maggiores & Suspect #1 & #2

Instead of turning left onto West La Loma Drive (as previously mentioned), the Maggiores now turned right onto West La Loma and headed north toward La Gloria Way. The Maggiores and Thumper were seen by two witnesses as they turned right onto West La Loma. Approx. 3 minutes later they reported hearing the gunshots. It is in this time frame that the witness on La Gloria saw Suspect #1 & #2 walking down La Gloria. She stopped watching them as they neared the corner of La Gloria & West La Loma. Approx. 3 minutes later, she reported hearing gunshots (click on image for zoom feature):

907B

Edited by Archangel76, 4 months ago
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By Archangel76

Response from Archangel76

9:10pm - The Shooting & Suspects Fleeing the Scene

The Maggiores walked onto La Gloria Way. Suspect #1 and #2 had to follow them (in order for Suspect #1 to have ended up in the backyard where the Maggiores were shot). Katie was ahead of Brian, running and screaming. I am speculating the Suspect #2 ran down La Gloria Way to La Alegria Drive to head Katie off (anticipating her getting through the gate). There were two witnesses sitting in their car talking, who got out when they heard the first gunshot and Katie screaming. One of the witnesses took off in his car. The other witness lived there and he remained and joined the 17 year old when he came out of his home as Katie screamed and more shots were fired

Suspect #2 (mustache) was seen running down Capitales after the shooting by a witness. The wife of the witness who saw Suspect #2 after the shooting said that she heard someone in their backyard jumping their fence. Another witness saw a man running through the apartment compex behind the aforementioned witnesses' house.

Suspect #1 had shot Brian and then went on to shoot Katie and then jump the fence and start to run west on La Alegria. He saw the 17 year old witness (plus one other witness) and then he turned around and ran to Capitales. He was later seen running on Las Casas Way and was last seen near Palo Vista Way.

Mr. Dragon Patch was still hanging around the corner of Capitales and West La Loma. He was still there after the ambulance had arrived. I speculate he was the wheel man waiting for Dumb and Dumber to show up. They didn't so he then took off.

910B

Edited by Archangel76, 4 months ago
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By Archangel76

Response from Archangel76

Maggiore Newspaper Articles

Maggiore Article 12Maggiore Article 13

Maggiore Article 5

Maggiore Article 6

Maggiore Article 4

Maggiore Article 3

Maggiore Article 10

Maggiore Article 11



Maggiore Article 7

Maggiore Article 9

Maggiore Article 2

Edited by Archangel76, 4 months ago
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By Archangel76

Response from Drifter

Re: Feb. 2, 1978 - Sgt. Brian & Katie Maggiori Murdered

Thanks very much for the various maps and articles! They help a lot.

Given this information, plus doing a Google map search and street view of the two relevant streets (La Alegria and La Gloria), my impression is that ...

Heading east on La Gloria at La Cova Ct. (the red X on one of your maps), Katie, followed by Brian, veered right into the yard of the house on the south side of La Gloria, and then into the backyard of the red roof house at 10165 La Alegria where both were shot.

The various articles lead me to analyze suspects 1 & 2. Suspect 1 "might" have been roughly the same age as the EAR but, at 6'2", he was too tall. Suspect 2 (moustach) appears to have been the right height, but he was too young (21 or 22).

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By Drifter

Response from Archangel76

Witness Description

The various articles lead me to analyze suspects 1 & 2. Suspect 1 "might" have been roughly the same age as the EAR but, at 6'2", he was too tall. Suspect 2 (moustach) appears to have been the right height, but he was too young (21 or 22).

Drifter,

Anyway you slice it, height/age of the suspects are inconsistent with the EAR. According to the current theory, the suspect with the mustache was supposedly Sgt. Maggiore. The problem with that (and there are legion) is that Sgt. Maggiore was 5'9 in height. (The newspaper article erroneously stated he was 6'2).

That fact provides us with a way of determining the height of Suspect #1 (if Sgt. Maggiore was mistakenly identified as Suspect #2). By height alone, Suspect #1 could not have been the EAR. And as you mentioned, the age estimation of Suspect #2 would eliminate him as the EAR.

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By Archangel76

Response from Repoman2

Re: Witness Description
Posted By: Archangel76

Drifter,
Anyway you slice it, height/age of the suspects are inconsistent with the EAR.

It would be foolish to think that an accurate description of height could be given by these witnesses considering the conditions and length of time that they saw these men on the street. Even when victims spend hours with their attacker they are often mistaken about very basic physical traits. Think about it. If height was so easy to guage then why do people routinely ask each other how tall they are? If it was so easy to tell how tall someone is just by glancing at them then why do convenience stores have a height chart on the door so that a video camera can measure how tall a robber was? Why not just ask the clerk? The fact is people do not have perfect preception, and they do not have perfect recall. To continue to cite these witness statements as proof of something just shows a basic misunderstanding about what is currently known of eye witness testimony and how the mind works. To ignore Guessting's post that there is evidence that the police requestioned the witnesses in a way that is known to lead to false memories just shows a stubborness that will not help solve this case.

Edited by Repoman2, 4 months ago
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By Repoman2

[Drifter]

Topic: Maggiore Case Theory

Poster: Archangel76

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maggiore Case Theory Simplified

The two case theories diverge on one simple issue. If you believe that the first witness was accurate in her observations, Suspect #2 was not mistaken for Sgt. Maggiore. The witness only has to be correct in a single aspect of her description in order for Suspect #2 to not be Sgt. Maggiore as we know factually that Sgt. Maggiore was not wearing gloves or boots with a heel nor did he have anything in his back pocket that could have been mistaken for a firearm.

If you believe that the first witness was mistaken in her observations, Suspect #2 could have been ANYONE. But she would have to be mistaken in every aspect of her observation. Remember, this was the time of the EAR. Everyone was paying attention to strangers in their neightborhood.

The problem with that second scenario is that a) the first witness was accurate in her description of the shooter as it matches the 17 year old's description of the shooter including the type of jacket and the dark spot on the back of the jacket and b)The first witness' description of Suspect #2 is consistent with the witness who saw Mr. Ski Jacket.

So, if Suspect #2 was Sgt. Maggiore, then who was Mr. Ski Jacket, seen fleeing the crime scene with a gun in his back pocket?

Suspects #1 and #2

So now, the witness who saw Mr. Ski Jacket has to be discredited, too. She was mistaken in what she saw. Because under the EAR Alone Theory, there is only one person running around. So she must have got her description wrong and confused a brown leather jacket for a green ski jacket.

There is a 3rd witness who claimed to see Suspect #2. So he must be discredited also even though his wife confirmed that someone hopped their back fence (after the 3rd witness saw someone matching Suspect #2's description run past him).

So, essentially, we have 3 eye-witnesses being told that they don't know what they saw by people who were not in Rancho Cordova on Feb. 2nd 1978. Once the eye-witness descriptions are discredited, any scenario is possible including TK being in Rancho Cordova on Feb. 2nd 1978 because all objectivity has been lost.

Why bother asking what the witnesses saw as the conclusion has already been reached. I have seen this time and time again. The conclusion has already been reached and now the facts have to be "adjusted" to fit the conclusion. This happened with EAR A/B and TK/Zodiac/EAR/ONS/etc.

The case facts should lead to the conclusion not the other way around.

By Archangel76

Response from erikdavid

Re: Maggiore Case Theory Simplified
This really isn't something we should be fighting over like this. Yes, is might have been EAR alone, or EAR with an accomplice, or something else entirely. Possibility is good in a case like this and we have no idea what we do not know either. Can we all just chill out?

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By erikdavid5111

Response from Repoman

Re: Personal Attacks...
Posted By: Archangel76

"Well that is an extreme and very silly position. And yes you have said many times please explain how these witnesses could be wrong, or words to that effect."

RM,

I thought that we agreed that we would refrain from personal attacks. Your own definition of personal attacks (which I disagreed with but nonetheless accepted) was personal observations about the nature of posts and criticism on the methodology of formulating case theories.

Under your expanded definition of personal attacks, "Well that is an extreme and very silly position" fits within your definition. So please refrain from making personal attacks.

Whatever. To say an argument is extreme and silly is not the same as to call someone a fool or to say that they have NPD. The argument is silly. The argument is extreme. Not you. It is not a personal attack.

Edited by Repoman, 1 year ago
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By Repoman

Response from Archangel76

Re: Re: Maggiore Case Theory Simplified
Posted By: erikdavid5111
This really isn't something we should be fighting over like this.

ED5K,

I agree with you that this is not something that we should be fighting over. We should be able to civilly and rationally discuss the merits of each theory (like we did with the EAR A/B Theory or the TK/Etc. Theory). but then the discussion becomes contentious. I am passionate about keeping the case facts straight. So, out of respect for the victims and their families as well as possible witnesses who might have information pertaining to these cases, I feel compelled to defend the case facts as best I can. I make corrections and amendments whenever necessary.

As you know, there have been attempts to hijack this board in the past and present unsound theories on here presented as "the truth". Thankfully, DNA put the most misleading and damaging case theory to rest. Hopefully, DNA will put the last nail in the coffin of that "other theory". DNA might be able to clarify this EAR Alone Theory as there are newer DNA tests available.

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By Archangel76

Response from Archangel76

Re: Re: Personal Attacks...
Posted By: Repoman
Posted By: Archangel76

According to your own expanded definition the agreement was not to make "personal observations about the nature of posts" or "criticize the methodology of formulating case theories." Referring to an argument as "extreme" or "silly" is both a personal observation and criticism of my case theory so according to your own definition, it is a personal attack. Please refrain from making personal observations about the nature of posts and criticizing the methodology of formulating case theories. Please address only the case facts and the points relating to the case facts.

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By Archangel76

Response from Repoman

Re: Re: Re: Personal Attacks...
Posted By: Archangel76
Posted By: Repoman
Posted By: Archangel76

No. The argument is extreme. The argument is silly. I am stickint to both the facts and to A&E's terms and conditions. If you feel that I am not then flag my post.

Edited by Repoman, 1 year ago
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By Repoman