Fourth Set (Format Changes Completed)

[Drifter]

Topic: Sgt. Brian & Katie Maggiori Murdered
Poster: Arch

Feb. 2, 1978 - Sgt. Brian & Katie Maggiori Murdered
Maggiore Timeline

I am reposting the timeline of the route that the Maggiores took on 2/2/78. They deviated from their normal walk route as early as 9:02 pm where a suspicious person was seen loitering. They again unexpectedly changed their direction when they reached the corner of La Alegria and La Gloria. This is where I estimated Suspect #1 and #2 to have been in order to have been seen walking down La Gloria Way at the time that they were seen by the witness.

The Maggiores and Suspect #1 and #2 (according to the witnesses and my time estimations) would have encountered each other near the corner of West La Loma Drive and La Gloria Way.

In order to "bump" into the shooter (who is presumed to be the EAR) it would have had to have occurred between 9:07pm and 9:09 pm. Which would mean that the EAR had approx. 2 minutes to ditch his cohort and confront the Maggiores. Someone matching the description of Suspect #2 was seen fleeing the area of the crime minutes after the shooting so he was still in the area.

I am unable to come up with a reasonable alternative explanation as to how Suspect #1 could have committed these crimes alone if he was seen in the company of Suspect #2 minutes before the shooting.

*All times are approximate

8:50 pm - Maggiores left their apartment on La Verta Court to walk their dog.

8:53 pm - They reached the intersection of Malaga Way and La Loma Drive. They continued walking west down Capitales Drive.

8:55 pm - The Maggiores made a right onto La Alegria Drive and continued walking west.

9:02 pm - The Maggiores reached the corner of La Alegria Drive and West La Loma Drive. There was a WMA seen loitering at the corner of West La Loma Drive and La Alegria Drive at the same time. Normally, the Maggiores would have turned left (south) onto West La Loma Drive and turned left again (east) on Capitales Drive and returned home. They instead turned around and walked back east on La Alegria Drive.

9:04 pm - The Maggiores reached the corner of La Alegria Drive and La Gloria Way. They turned around again and headed west down La Alegria Drive for a second time. Suspect #1 and #2 would have been in that area at that same time. Suspects #1 and #2 headed down La Gloria Way.

9:07 pm - The Maggiores reached the corner of La Alegria Drive and West La Loma Drive for the 2nd time. They turned right onto West La Loma Drive (instead of left as they normally would have done). approx. 3 minutes later, the witnesses who saw them heard gunshots.

9:07 pm - Suspect #1 and #2 were seen on La Gloria Way heading west. They were last seen near the corner of La Gloria Way and West La Loma Drive. Approx. 3 minutes later, this witness reported hearing gunshots.

9:10 pm - The Maggiores were shot and found in the backyard of the residence on La Alegria Way.

9:13 pm - An ambulance as well as the Sheriff's Department were called. Both the ambulance and the Sheriff's Department were on the scene in minutes.


Response from Repoman

ANY photos/pictures taken 35+ years after the fact are going to be misleading in some form or another..... Not to mention modern day cameras standing in for the human eye.......Next.
How so? Is nightfall different now then 35 years ago? Is this from global warming? How exactly has darkness changed over the last 35 years?

[Drifter]

Responses to Arch "Maggiore Timeline"

Response from PortofLeith 

9:02 to 9:07
Arch- Does this activity mean the Maggiores were backtracking to confirm something or evading someone? I'm confused. Do you still have the overhead map of their course you could post?

Response from Arch

Port,

I believe that the Maggiores were backtracking to avoid someone. I'll post an overhead map when I get a chance.

Response from PortofLeith

Feb. 2, 1978 - Sgt. Brian & Katie Maggiori Murdered

Fresno Bee September 30, 1977

Brian Maggiore, son of Mr. and Mrs. James J. Maggiore of 1529 W. Clinton Ave., has been promoted to sergeant while serving as an administrative specialist at Mather
Air Force Base. His wife, Katie, is the daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Ken Smith of Clovis. Maggiore
is a 1974 Fresno High School graduate and attended American River College, Sacramento...

Fresno Bee August 24, 1975

SMITH—MAGGIORE Mr. and Mrs. Kenneth Smith are announcing the
engagement of t h e i r daughter, Katie Lee, to Brian Keith Maggiore
The b r i d e - e l e c t is attending McLane High School.

The engaged man, son of Mr. and Mrs. James Maggiore, was graduated
from Fresno High School and is serving in the United States Air Force.

A July 17, 1976, weddingis planned.


Response from Repoman

This Is An Incredibly Misleading Post

Arch does not know what the Maggiore's path was that night. He is only guessing based on various witness statements which he has groomed to form this guess of what happened that night. This timeline makes a lot of assumptions. One being that everything the witnesses saw that night was relevant to the murder. Another being that all the witnesses were accurate in reporting what they saw. An also exactly when they saw it. Keep in mind most of these witnesses are recounting what they saw from their house looking out onto a dark street. Is it possible that one these witnesses was mistaken about what they saw? Or when they saw it? Is it possible that they saw a man loitering two blocks away and that this person had nothing to do with the murder? Is it possible that several airmen getting high and working on a car in a garage were just minding their own business when the murder happened? We know that when a crime occurs even in broad daylight that witnesses routinely get basic facts wrong. Just ask any cop if he has ever had more than one story from witnesses at a crime scene. So why would we assume that all of these witness statements are correct. Or that they all saw something that was connected to the murder? To make these assumptions and to then present them as fact would seem to be quite foolish in my view. What Arch is presenting as fact is just one of thousands of possibliities of what could of happened that night


Response from Arch

1976 McClane High School Yearbook

Katie Maggiore 1976

You can view Katie (Smith) Maggiore's high school senior photo here (if you have a Classmates.com account):

www.classmates.com/yearbooks/Mclane-High-School/147399


Response from Arch

Normal Route: Overhead Map

This is an overhead view of the normal route that the Maggiores would have walked their dog on (click on image for zoom feature):

Normal Route

Approx. 9:02pm - First Deviation from Normal Route

This is the first indication that there was trouble that evening. A witness saw a suspicious male loitering in the area of West La Loma & Capitales. This person was later seen by another witness near the corner of West La Loma and La Alegria (click on image for zoom feature):

Edited by Archangel76, 4 months ago
Profile Image

Approx. 9:04pm - East on La Alegria

Instead of turning left onto West La Loma and proceeding to Capitales, the Maggiores turned around and walked east on La Alegria (click on image for zoom feature):

904

Instead of proceeding to Capitales Drive and back home, the Maggiores turned around and proceeded west again on La Alegria to West La Loma. The lying airmen in the open garage were at the corner of La Alegria & Capitales where it T-bones. Suspect #1 & #2 would have been in the area of La Gloria & La Alegria based on where the witness first saw them together. Either they came from one of the homes on La Gloria or they walked to La Gloria from La Alegria (click on image for zoom feature):

907

Approx. 9:07pm - the Maggiores & Suspect #1 & #2

Instead of turning left onto West La Loma Drive (as previously mentioned), the Maggiores now turned right onto West La Loma and headed north toward La Gloria Way. The Maggiores and Thumper were seen by two witnesses as they turned right onto West La Loma. Approx. 3 minutes later they reported hearing the gunshots. It is in this time frame that the witness on La Gloria saw Suspect #1 & #2 walking down La Gloria. She stopped watching them as they neared the corner of La Gloria & West La Loma. Approx. 3 minutes later, she reported hearing gunshots (click on image for zoom feature):

907B

9:10pm - The Shooting & Suspects Fleeing the Scene

The Maggiores walked onto La Gloria Way. Suspect #1 and #2 had to follow them (in order for Suspect #1 to have ended up in the backyard where the Maggiores were shot). Katie was ahead of Brian, running and screaming. I am speculating the Suspect #2 ran down La Gloria Way to La Alegria Drive to head Katie off (anticipating her getting through the gate). There were two witnesses sitting in their car talking, who got out when they heard the first gunshot and Katie screaming. One of the witnesses took off in his car. The other witness lived there and he remained and joined the 17 year old when he came out of his home as Katie screamed and more shots were fired

Suspect #2 (mustache) was seen running down Capitales after the shooting by a witness. The wife of the witness who saw Suspect #2 after the shooting said that she heard someone in their backyard jumping their fence. Another witness saw a man running through the apartment compex behind the aforementioned witnesses' house.

Suspect #1 had shot Brian and then went on to shoot Katie and then jump the fence and start to run west on La Alegria. He saw the 17 year old witness (plus one other witness) and then he turned around and ran to Capitales. He was later seen running on Las Casas Way and was last seen near Palo Vista Way.

Mr. Dragon Patch was still hanging around the corner of Capitales and West La Loma. He was still there after the ambulance had arrived. I speculate he was the wheel man waiting for Dumb and Dumber to show up. They didn't so he then took off.

910B


Response from Drifter

Thanks very much for the various maps and articles! They help a lot.

Given this information, plus doing a Google map search and street view of the two relevant streets (La Alegria and La Gloria), my impression is that ...

Heading east on La Gloria at La Cova Ct. (the red X on one of your maps), Katie, followed by Brian, veered right into the yard of the house on the south side of La Gloria, and then into the backyard of the red roof house at 10165 La Alegria where both were shot.

The various articles lead me to analyze suspects 1 & 2. Suspect 1 "might" have been roughly the same age as the EAR but, at 6'2", he was too tall. Suspect 2 (moustach) appears to have been the right height, but he was too young (21 or 22).

Response from Arch

Drifter,

Anyway you slice it, height/age of the suspects are inconsistent with the EAR. According to the current theory, the suspect with the mustache was supposedly Sgt. Maggiore. The problem with that (and there are legion) is that Sgt. Maggiore was 5'9 in height. (The newspaper article erroneously stated he was 6'2).

That fact provides us with a way of determining the height of Suspect #1 (if Sgt. Maggiore was mistakenly identified as Suspect #2). By height alone, Suspect #1 could not have been the EAR. And as you mentioned, the age estimation of Suspect #2 would eliminate him as the EAR.


Response from Repoman

It would be foolish to think that an accurate description of height could be given by these witnesses considering the conditions and length of time that they saw these men on the street. Even when victims spend hours with their attacker they are often mistaken about very basic physical traits. Think about it. If height was so easy to guage then why do people routinely ask each other how tall they are? If it was so easy to tell how tall someone is just by glancing at them then why do convenience stores have a height chart on the door so that a video camera can measure how tall a robber was? Why not just ask the clerk? The fact is people do not have perfect preception, and they do not have perfect recall. To continue to cite these witness statements as proof of something just shows a basic misunderstanding about what is currently known of eye witness testimony and how the mind works. To ignore Guessting's post that there is evidence that the police requestioned the witnesses in a way that is known to lead to false memories just shows a stubborness that will not help solve this case.

[Drifter]

Topic: Manuela Witthuhn
Poster: Arch

February 5th, 1981 - Manuela Witthuhn

31 years ago today, the EAR/ONS raped and murdered Manuela Witthuhn. It was his first known attack in Irvine. Manuela was the first ONS victim who was alone when attacked. Her husband, David, was unexpectedly hospitalized. Investigators believe that he would have been killed also had he been home that fateful evening. Before he passed away, David would occasionally post here. One important piece of information that he made available was that his Ham radio was switched over to a police frequency. The investigators had asked him if he had done that and he said he had not. It is tragic beyond words that David left this world without any answers as to who murdered his wife.


Response from Bear99

I used to have his posts saved from the old board but have since lost them. If anyone has them could you please post them?


Response from Arch

Yes, Please Post...
Unfortunately, I didn't anticipate us losing all of that critical information (let alone David Witthuhn). I am with Bear99. If you have saved any of David Witthuhn's old posts please post them.


Response from Bear99

The Answering Machine/David Witthuhn's posts on the old board
I want to preface this post by saying that Mr. Witthuhn suffered greatly for the tragic loss of his wife. For new posters, David Witthuhn posted on the old board as "Irvine" and graciously answered questions by fellow posters. I also hope that posters read with great empathy how this crime impacted Mr. Witthuhn, ultimately contributing to his early death in 2008. We need to remind ourselves that for every victim raped or killed there were/are peripheral family members still suffering. That is why I am very serious and focused in my research.His mention of an unknown voice of someone sounding of African American descent left on the answering machine the day before the murder of Manuela is noteworthy. There are two Sacramento sources that say Ear sometimes disguised his voice to reflect a southern accent. The Irvine post by David Witthuhn:(2 of 13) Re: manuela witthuhn - questions for irvineJun 3, 2005 11:17 AM Report Abuse Nick g, You are very kind in your interest. I am only going by what I have been told or what I know factually. You ask many questions that brings back stuff that is hard to remember and hurts as well. All efforts are out the window, so here is a few facts as I know them. The lamp was taken and presumed the murder weapon. Yes he made the scene look like a robbery. The TV was just moved from a back bedroom and left on the patio. No carving gone just lamp and like a crystal ball on a wood base about six inches total height. The tape from the answering machine was taken I was told. Had one mysterious call one day earlier obviously a older african american decent voice. I checked out (ama) as soon as I found out the situation when I could not get a hold of my Wife. I was in a total of three days. Yes they asked and no I did not encounter anyone. Yes some jewelry was taken. Yes a fence around the back yard. Irvine has a park on just about every block. There was a few vacant homes as it was a new housing development at the time. We had contacts with a construction boss to fix defects. Nothing ever mentioned of strands of fiber. The LE questioned anyone and everyone around or work environments, neighborhoods, and the Hospital. The LE I feel did more than expected and really tried considering they assumed I had something to do with this. Myself I have been the focus of Police Depts., Sheriff depts., FBI, IRS, phone taps, surveillance, DNA, hypnosis, lie-detector tests, FBI and Police, entrapment plans, media suspicion and hours of interviewing by all. They were pretty thorough related to me. They were always kind, empathetic and respectful. It still caused many repercussions. I have had a heart attack and died,brought back, 2 Grand Mall seizers, anxiety attacks, mini-strokes, large stroke and I'm still here. I have never went the route of benefiting money wise by interviews, books or such, which I have been offered many times. There was some relief having LE focus in the right direction after 17 years but I feel a lot of waisted effort and time was spent that could have been better directed. That's just hindsight though. In all fairness they didn't know either and we did not have the technology we have now

This was copied from Ports post....


Response from Port

David Witthuhn

It is so sad that David died before this case was resolved. I have another series of posts that refer to how unkindly some on the board treated David, resulting in him not posting after that. Those responsible should be ashamed. We only have the blurred image of Manuela, but she was described as being a lovely woman. The house across the street from her residence was for sale and someone has posted that David also was listing a Mercedes for sale. Manuela was survived by her parents, Horst and Rum Rohrbeck. Her family asked for donations to a Tijuana orphanage in lieu of flowers.
I have pictures of a house with the same floor plan as the Witthuhn's and the master bedroom was located in a u-shaped , somewhat isolated section of the yard with two sliding glass doors - one on each side of the U. I can see why she was afraid to be alone at night.

It is also interesting that there was EAR-like prowling in the neighborhood prior to Manuela's murder.


Response from Arbed

Port, was it only the one neighbor that noted her deadbolt was unlocked? Were there other events or other neighbors that noticed anything unusual that night?

Response from Guessting

May the all of the families find peace and comfort knowing that EARONS will face justice.


Response from Sandia

This is such a tragic case. Poor Manuela, what she must have gone through and the prolonged torture of her husband is so tragic also. I hope they are with God and happy now together.


In Sudden Terror it is mentioned that a "female" neighbor directly behind Manuela noted her dead bolt was not locked!!! That is very creepy. She found that unusual. This kind of indicates he might have been in her house. Port, do you have information on other neighborhood prowling activities? for instance what happened, what streets, were the houses that reported the prowlings have a potential female victim living there, were ligatures/shoelaces found anywhere in the neighborhood? This might clear up if Manuela was followed home from work etc. as opposed to she was just spotted while he was doing his usual prowlings around. Port can you post that floor plan?

Also, I have a few questions for ANYONE who might have privy to this information:

1) Regarding the doors: The rear sliding door that had pry marks and damage to the frame according to Sudden Terror, I don't want to assume that was the point of entry, does anyone know if it was and if so what room it entered, the master bedroom?

2) it is mentioned that "wooden matches" were found by the garage door and the flower bed but cigarettes are not mentioned. Does anyone know if cigarette butts were found?

If nobody knows, oh well, but if you do I hope you can share the information.
Flag


Response from akwilks

This is a screen shot of the statements of David Witthuhn. if you click on it, then click "Enlarge Photo", it is easy to read.


Reponse from dengas

What is the picture you posted of EAR/ONS? ons was asking on another thread.


Response from akwilks 

A suspect in Zodiac and EAR/ONS I have looked a little bit at, I will post more on him in a few days. Facts indicate IMO he was NOT the Zodiac, but it seems he was obsessed with the case and lived in same areas EAR/ONS struck.


Response from Repoman

How old is this person and which areas did he live in?

Response from Port 
Strange activity before the murders

Arbed and Sandia,
Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I think the format of this board sometimes causes info to be buried. I have no specifics beyond what has been published in the Cason series, Orange County Magazine and several newspaper accounts. The Smith neighborhood had prowlings before and after the murders. Neighbors of the Harringtons heard sounds in the bushes. One of Manuela's neighbors deadbolts had been manipulated. We have a poster that said Janelle had a prowler the night before her attack. In one news article, either Detective Pool or Heany said that Orange County had expereinced "strange burglaries" prior to the murders. Based on the information we have on the Goleta attacks, I think it is safe to conclude that EAR ONS didn't signifiantly change his prowling/surveillance MO when he moved south.

[Drifter]

Topic: Momma EAR or Mommy Earest
Poster: Arch


Momma EAR or Mommy Earest

If there is any truth to the EAR's statement, "it scares my mommy when it's on the news", one way of interpreting that series of statements (he said it on more than one occasion) is that the EAR was staying with his mother. And it's a stretch but if it was true, then someone still 25 to 30 years old and living with his mother indicates a few things. The EAR was a momma's boy as suggested by the psychological profile (domineering mother and weak or absent father).

The mother was financially well-off and provided the EAR with financial assistance. The EAR was an underachiever. And he may have been a parolee. A lot of parolees will end up staying with family. I think that the EAR was not volunteering accurate info when he said he was living in an apartment. That was patently false.

I do like the new theory that the EAR was acting like a sausage-sucking loon and making the "mommy" comments to make it seem to investigators as though he was "Walter Hamilton", the first EAR suspect who had a wacko mom. Hard to figure if the crying was all an act but no one would be surprised if it was an act.
61 Replies


Response from confidence of the balaclava

If you believe he was authentically sobbing, then the mommy comments must be authentic, too. I've thought the scenario you described would be likely. He might've been living with his parents or mother, an underachiever, and a *-up, possibly with a record. And if that were so, he would have been a troubled kid from much earlier on, and yes, mom may have known he had mental problems, was sexually deviant or had a hand in making him sexually deviant, and kept an eye on him, but eventually just turned a blind eye. Then put two and two together from ear news reports and the hours he was keeping, and was worried and told him it had better stop. In that case, she would have given him an alibi if the cops came knocking because a neighbor called him in and said, That neighbor boy is weird. Check him out. Ive caught him peeping since he was a kid, and he keeps strange hours. Or something like that.

The dominant mother theory is no longer a go-to for criminal psychologists. That doesnt mean that his mother didnt play a heavy role in his life, and doesnt exclude sexual abuse, or neglect, without her being an overbearing manipulator. From ears own comments, he has a love/hate relationship to his mother, and probably blames her for his problems. But that's what psychopaths do: blame other people. The love/hate thing and the spontaneous sobbing remind me of people with disorders along the line of schizophrenia. Having an intense mistrust or anger and blame for their mothers, are unable to control their emotions sometimes and cry (for themselves). He couldnt have been successful at his crimes with disordered thinking, but the disordered thinking may have been minimal and mostly apart from when he carried out his crimes. He was highly successful at his crimes in large part to being OCD and somewhat paranoid. I mean there are 40 other scenarios that are possible when discussing who the ear is/was, but this is plausible. His mother may have not been able to deal with him at times due to his moods or mental or criminal behavior, and sent him away to live with relatives, at times.

His mom may not have turned him in and lied to do so, but I think a cousin would turn him in.

And he knew Walter, and that Walter was a crybaby, who lived in an apartment.
Exactly how many people did ear know and try to frame for his crimes? This could go on all day and then some when its decided that he was an evil genius mastermind. I mean, did he actually know a guy with a gf who drove a van and needed food for it, and was trying to frame them, too?

edit: I wonder if momma didnt have a grab bag of mental illnesses, too? Remember how ears while sobbing was "stumbling around" begging for help from mom? Maybe mom wasnt a bit of a Fred Sandford, herself.

Or maybe ears watched Sandford and Son and thought that would be a nice touch on the sobbing routine that night. Since he was also hyperventilating, I wonder if that wast a panic attack that night. I can almost see an overwrought mother ears having an attack over baby ears and telling him he had better be a good boy from now on. Her psychopathic son.


Response from Arch

The question that needs to be answered is WHY was the EAR continuing to go into Walter Hamilton's backyard early on in the rape series? And why was he making so much freaking noise going over the fence? And why was he making a nuisance of himself going so far as to kick open the gate after the owner nailed it shut?

Walter Hamilton didn't have any sisters. His mother was too old to find herself in the EAR's crosshairs and she was a certifiable loon (God bless her soul). The EAR would usually enter his victim's backyard through the gate. The telltale sign of his presence was an open gate.

Incidentally, (and probably coincidentally) the EAR's scent was lost near Walter Hamilton's girlfriend's home following the attack on #15. Also, incidentally, Walter Hamilton's girlfriend was in the same graduating class as EAR victim #8. One wonders if investigators ever asked if they knew each other.

So the question remains: what was the EAR doing in Hamilton's backyard and why was he making his presence known? The effect that it had was to lead investigators to suspect Hamilton and lean hard on him.


Response from Arch
More on "Walter Hamilton"

Hamilton was a drug user and part-time narcotics dealer. That is what Hamilton has in common with the former driver of the Oldsmobile. The Oldsmobile that the blonde-haired driver was observed acting suspiciously in on 10/17/76. The EAR would hit Victim #7 and #8 on 10/18/76 within the same 24 hour period.

"Hamilton" was a pathological liar. (Surprise, surprise. His mother was a nutcase). He passed the investigator's polygraph test by smoking a little reefer before the interview. His father was a Ham Radio Operator. (I believe he now has a license). Investigators finally cleared Hamilton via DNA years after the fact.

Whether deliberately or by accident, the EAR led investigators to suspect Hamilton partly because of the EAR continuing to jump Hamilton's neighbor's fence.


Response from dengas

Graduating class
Incidentally, (and probably coincidentally) the EAR's scent was lost near Walter Hamilton's girlfriend's home following the attack on #15. Also, incidentally, Walter Hamilton's girlfriend was in the same graduating class as EAR victim #8. One wonders if investigators ever asked if they knew each other.
So the question remains: what was the EAR doing in Hamilton's backyard and why was he making his presence known? The effect that it had was to lead investigators to suspect Hamilton and lean hard on him.Archangel, have you looked through the yearbooks to see if there are pictures of the two girls hanging out together in candid shots. Maybe they were seen walking home together and were both followed to their homes. I walked home with a gal, and we would each go in different directions the last 5 blocks, so if someone wanted to know where we both lived, it would take two days.

Hamilton's Girlfriend

Archangel, have you looked through the yearbooks to see if there are pictures of the two girls hanging out together in candid shots.

Response from Arch

dengas,

I will have to check into that.

Response from Arch

One More Possible False Lead

It is possible that the security officer's badge recovered in Contra Costa County, if left behind by the EAR, was meant to misdirect investigators. It just so happens that "Walter Hamilton" worked for a security company for short time.

Security Badge

The question that needs to be answered is WHY was the EAR continuing to go into Walter Hamilton's backyard early on in the rape series? And why was he making so much freaking noise going over the fence? And why was he making a nuisance of himself going so far as to kick open the gate after the owner nailed it shut?

Response from Repoman

Walter Hamilton didn't have any sisters. His mother was too old to find herself in the EAR's crosshairs and she was a certifiable loon (God bless her soul). The EAR would usually enter his victim's backyard through the gate. The telltale sign of his presence was an open gate.

Incidentally, (and probably coincidentally) the EAR's scent was lost near Walter Hamilton's girlfriend's home following the attack on #15. Also, incidentally, Walter Hamilton's girlfriend was in the same graduating class as EAR victim #8. One wonders if investigators ever asked if they knew each other.

So the question remains: what was the EAR doing in Hamilton's backyard and why was he making his presence known? The effect that it had was to lead investigators to suspect Hamilton and lean hard on him.
Well if Walter Hamilton had a girlfriend then maybe the EAR was peeping on Walter and his girlfriend. We know that he went to great lengths to catch couples in intimate moments. He was afterall first and foremost a prolific peeping tom.

Response from Arch
That Is A Good Possibility

Well if Walter Hamilton had a girlfriend then maybe the EAR was peeping on Walter and his girlfriend. We know that he went to great lengths to catch couples in intimate moments. He was afterall first and foremost a prolific peeping tom.

That is a definite possibility. One wonders if the girlfriend received any hang-up phone calls? The area where she lived was canvassed during #15's investigation but I do not think anyone was home when the detectives stopped by. So that is a valid possibility.

Response from Sandia 
Arch regarding the blond haired driver of the Olds acting suspiciously on 10/17/76, I reread that part in the book and the book didn't elaborate on the suspicious behaviour. Do you know what was suspicious about his behaviour?

Another small thing, there is a descrepancy in the book regarding the make of the car. The book says it was a Chevy, so I take it that is an error?

Also, again that was a very interesting factoid about the badge and Walter Hamilton having worked for a short time as a security guard.


Response from Arch 
The car was described by the witness as a Lincoln Continental with out the rear wheel in the trunk. A check with the CII revealed that the license plate number came back to an Oldsmobile Coupe.


Response from Sandia
O.K. Arch, that will be great.

About the car, the book says, Chevy, so there is now Chevy, Lincoln, Olds, strange. Also, the description of the Lincoln Continental without the rear wheel in the trunk sounds very specific. Is it possible the driver put a license from the Olds onto the Continental?

I'll check in tomorrow,

Thanks


Response from Greg

He may have been trying to misdirect the police towards various "suspects", but his logic falls apart as they would evetually be cleared when LE investigated them enough. This leads down another avenue that he was observing / watching certain males that he felt he could frame or use to divert the police. Of course, this is assuming he was that smart.


Response from DanCartell


Whether deliberately or by accident, the EAR led investigators to suspect Hamilton partly because of the EAR continuing to jump Hamilton's neighbor's fence.
Thats very interesting stuff on "Walter Hamilton" - the drugs connection to this case has always fascinated me, maybe EAR hung around the fringes of the drug scene..........I wonder at times....

Response from germgrom68

Apart from the physical rape attacks on his victims, the EAR committed also mental rapes by terrorising and frightening his victims. Sudden Terror reveals his psycho-terror-tactics in detail. The obscene language, the death therats... I found an FBI-profile of the so-called Mental Rapist subtype. I am stunned how much this matches EAR:
The Mental Rapist Enjoys Abusing Women: ~~ He abuses then backs off. After he has abused to a certain point he will back off and take note of his accomplishments.~~If he is not satisfied that he has reached his desired level of control, he will step up the degree of abuse, coming back and swinging harder.~~He has to win, and it is very important to him that he is always right. He is Shy and Timid: ~~In real life he is shy, especially where three or more people are gathered.~~He prefers one-on-one encounters that he can control. He Hates and Loves Women at the Same Time: Endless Cycle of Love/Hate with his Mother~~This person was probably abused by his mother and then coddled. (For example: She would slap him in a violent rage and then love, cry and apologize.)~~He probably hated his mother and loved her at the same time. The relationship with his mother was a never-ending cycle of love and hate that he could not control or stop.~~He transposes these feelings to other women. He tries to create the same type of environment with other women.~~This time he IS in CONTROL. Therefore, in his mind, he is controlling his mother through other women, surrogates of his mother.~~He may have a wife. If so, he is a model husband. He needs one relationship with a female that is solid and wholesome; that is why he looks elsewhere for women to abuse.~~He was disillusioned by an early love, so, in his mind, all women are liars and whores.~~He was very much in love with someone once who he thought to be pure. The other person did not feel the same for him, and turned out not to be quite the virgin he thought her to be.~~In his mind, if this ideal woman whom he thought was pure above all else, turned out not to be, then surely all other women must be liars and whores too. His mind is fixed on that as pure 100% fact and can not be changed.~~His mother might have been the woman he loved and thought to be pure, and he may have found out that she had several affairs.~~His biggest problem is simply that all women just won't admit that they are liars and whores.~~When a woman does not submit to him and admit what he knows to be true (that she is a liar and a whore), he feels he is back in the unbreakable cycle of his mother again. This upsets him to the point of bursting forth with so much profanity. Delusions of Superior Intellect ~~He considers himself to be mentally superior to all women.~~He is sure he is smarter, because he knows all women are liars and whores, but he has to prove it by making them admit it.~~This type of individual probably possesses an above-average I.Q.~~He has engaged in this behavior many times and knows what avenues and shortcuts to take to reach his objective as soon as possible.

Response from sumrdays
EAR surveillance/ Car's owner

I believe when EAR was seen sitting in his car acting "suspictiously" that he was doing surveillance. He was probably slumped down in the drivers seat, hiding behing the news paper pretenting like he was reading it. ??

Is it true that it's a 1969 white Pontiac, Lemans with an iridesent blue hue to it? It was white in the day and light baby blue at night! ?? Dark blue interior! ??

Arch said.... "A check with the CII revealed that the license plate number came back to an Oldsmobile Coupe" if they could identify the make of the car why can't they identify who owned it?


Response from confidence is the balaclava

This does sound a lot like him, but it's oddly specific. What FBI link did you pull this from? I pasted & searched and only came up with a few weird sites.

He definitely has some mother issues, among others. If you believe his mommy statements during the attacks were real, then it stands to reason he has some kind of love/hate thing going on. He says both 'Im sorry mommy.' 'Mommy help me.', and then 'I hate you mommy.' You could even wedge the dramatic, 'Shes making me do it!', into there. And maybe even, 'I have to get home before my parents.' This is all assuming that you do not believe that he is framing "Walter" from ST. Although I dont remember Walter sobbing or yelling about his mom.

It also partly explains why he was so mum on the sexual verbal abuse with his victims. He's terrorizing them with threats of death, but when he verbalizes during the rapes it's, 'I love your body,' 'I'm in love with your body,' and 'You have a beautiful body.'

And I mentioned this before a long time ago (because it's so weird), that he tells a woman that she has a "beautiful big pvssy." Telling a woman that she has a big pvssy is not a harmless thing (usually for whoever says it), but he puts "beautiful" in there. If he meant that, and it's not some weirdly related sarcasm, then he's being appreciative. And if he's appreciative of a 'big pvssy', then you kind of wonder why? And is it because he saw his mother or stepmother's lady bits at a formative age? Whether they were complicit (abuse) or not (peeping)? It would explain it. And if you believe in his sobbing mommy fits, it might fit a mother who crossed a sexual line with her son somewhere, whether or not she thought it was harmless (like letting him sleep in her bed with her at an inappropriate age ((Walter's mother, anyone?))). For a grown person to regress to behaving like a child -like he might have, you'd think there was some serious overt abuse that might have caused that.

Other than the higher IQ & stranger rape, that's the profile of a lot of male domestic abusers.

Response from AmberCat 

Anatomical Sizes
The first thing I thought of about EAR-ONS telling his victims that they had large beautiful woman-parts, I thought it might have something to do with him supposedly having small male-parts (this has been posted on other threads here). He's possibly, in a really strange way, trying to tell his victim that he's not less than average size, she's really big down there. Maybe?


Resposne from confidence is the balaclava

Yes, could be; with the second woman he left out the beautiful and said she 'probably liked big d1cks.' Oops; no, i think he asked her that. So maybe he liked to pretend he was big? He 'mentioned his 8"' penis to one young victim, evidently without irony.
He thought about it enough to use a penis extender in one case, according to an ST description of a victim report. Since he only used it once, and in 40some rapes this was not really an issue for him, I guess he was at least semi-ok with his penis. I had also read somewhere that rapists who are impotent, which he half was at least during the rapes, or under-endowed, like to use larger objects than their penis to rape with.


Edit: Would ears be happy or mad that we're talking about his penis this much. He's probably glad that anyone talks about him at all, I bet.


Response from Junkhead

What kind of "narcotics" did Walter Hamilton sell?
I put narcotics in quotes because I'm not sure if it means all drugs like the how the police use it? Or does it mean just opiates like the original meaning?
I'm leaning towards him selling weed. Because in Sudden Terror it was revealed later that he had a little grow going in his back yard.
Maybe Walter sold ear some smoke. Its dubious at best, though I wonder if ear did smoke a little. Carter administration was close to legalizing back in 77 lots of people smoked a bit.


Response from dengas

Archangel, have you looked through the yearbooks to see if there are pictures of the two girls hanging out together in candid shots.

Response from Drifter

dengas,
I will have to check into that.
Regarding (high school) yearbooks ... which years would you zero in on?

[Drifter]

Topic: Most Reliable Composite Sketch of the EAR/ONS
Poster: Arch

Most Reliable Composite Sketch of the EAR/ONS

A while back, someone asked me which was the most reliable composite sketch of the EAR/ONS. At the time, i did not have an answer. Now that I know some of the background on this sketch, this should be considered the most reliable composite sketch of the EAR/ONS. Why this was not released to the public (and the phony artist's conception was) I'll never know. This is as good as it gets. (Please note that there is no resemblance to TK). This is circa 1977-78.

Half-Mask1

Response from Sandia

What are the details surrounding this sketch?
Thanks, Arch for this information! Do you know for which crime this sketch was made and who made it; for instance is it from the victim, or a neighbor? Is this the May '77 sketch or the sketch when a woman saw him running along a canal and he said he was late? Then there was a sketch where you said he left Sacramento area probably because the sketch came out and was probably the most accurate. As you can tell, I am confused about which sketch is which.

Response from Arch
Composite Sketch Clarification

Sandia,

Your confusion about the composite sketches is understandable. Information about the composite sketches is leaking out drip by drip, so I can only report the information as it comes to me. That is why I update and try to provide as much background information as is possible under the circumstances. We only received this latest information a week ago.

The sketch in which I earlier believed was responsible for the EAR leaving Sacramento (which I no longer believe) came from the Maggiore murders. The "official" position of the SCSD (as per the THS Investigates program) is that the Maggiore murders were committed by the EAR. This was back in 2009. The "enhanced composite" from the Maggiore case was released 4/16/78. The EAR left the Sacramento area after the 4/14/78 attack.

I have since learned that the "enhanced sketch" is not of the shooter of the Maggiores (as posted multiple times) and therefore is not of the EAR. The original composite sketch was released 2/16/78 and that is the most reliable composite sketch of the Maggiore's shooter. If the Maggiore's shooter was also the EAR, then that would have been the most reliable sketch. This "Half-Mask" sketch further calls a connection into question. I will address that later.

In 2009, I didn't have the information about the sighting of the EAR on the Sacramento River levee by a witness. That is most likely the reason he left Sacramento area, not the release of the 4/16/78 "enhanced composite sketch". (Note the EAR returned to the Sacramento area in 1979 for one last attack).

There was no sketch that came from the sighting along the levee. The 1977 sketch was created around March of 1977. But that was a sketch of a suspicious person seen in the area of the 24th EAR attack. It resembled the sketch of another suspicious person from 1976. In either case, it was not certain that either sketch was of the EAR. Just of a person "suspected" of possibly being the EAR.

This "Half Mask" composite sketch came from Victim #15 (according to one of the original investigators). I thought it came from Victim #23. In any event, this "Half Mask" composite sketch came from one of the victims so it is definitely of the EAR, not of a person suspected of being the EAR. As such, it is the most reliable likeness that we have of the EAR/ONS circa 1977.

I do not think there is a strong resemblance between the sketch of the Maggiore's killer and the Half-Mask sketch, further calling into question a link between the EAR/ONS crimes and the murders of the Maggiores.

Response from Sandia

Thanks again, Arch. I understand you can only report the information as it comes to you but I have a couple of more questions: So to be sure, victim 15 was on 3/18/77 in Rancho Cordova and victim #23 was 9/06/77 in Stockton? My numbering system got off track but I think probably that is after they added Maggiori an EAR/ONS victim, victims #30?
I reread those chapters a minute ago, but it didn't say the victim #15 got a look at him. I did note that EAR/ONS called the Sheriff's office at 1615 hours and at 1630 hours and at 1700 hours to taunt them and to say he had his next victim picked out and they couldn't stop him. Then at 2130 hours the neighbor across the street saw EAR/ONS going up to the victim's front door and then around to the side of the house but the lighting was poor and she couldn't make out his features, just that he was a male of average height, and she didn't call the police! Then victim #15 said he was wearing a dark green canvas mask surrounding two eye holes.

Regarding victims 23 in Stockton, the husband first said he was wearing a hat or a mask, then later both the wife and husband said they couldn't be sure if he was wearing a mask.

Do you think the detectives can clarify this Arch?

Response from Arch

Sandia,

Despite what is said in "Sudden Terror", the half-mask composite sketch is consistent with what the victim described in 1977. So, the half-mask sketch did come from #15. There was a composite sketch that came from #23 but it was not provided by the victim or her husband. It came from one of their children. We refer to this sketch as the "Ninja Turtle" sketch.

That is where the confusion stemmed from. I thought that the "Ninja Turtle" sketch came from #15 but was told it came from #23. I then thought the half-mask sketch came from #23 as well but, one of the original investigators said the half-mask came from #15. He should know. There is a photograph of him in the Sacramento Bee when he was retiring from the SCSD with the half-mask sketch on a poster board behind him.

You can see the "bull tattoo" on the suspect's arm in the "Ninja Turtle" sketch. It was the young witness who saw the bull tattoo. So that, in a sense, confirms were the "Ninja Turtle" sketch came from.


Response from Sandia


Thanks for the clarification, Arch. I wouldn't put it past EAR/ONS to stencil the tattoo on his arm to throw LE off if he was caught at some future point. Main reason I say that is that you say others didn't see the tattoo when he was wearing a short sleeve shirt and in fact nobody else ever saw it. What do you think?


Response from Arch
Sandia,

It would not surprise me if the bull tattoo was temporary. I'll have to look to see if there are any instances after #23 where the EAR wore short-sleeved shirts.

Response from Arch 
Unidentified Sketches

When Insp. Shelby retired from the Sacramento County Sheriff's Department, he had a poster board with the Half-Mask composite and a few other composite sketches on it. I have never seen those other sketches anywhere and I do not know where they came from. Here is the photo of Shelby that was published. Sorry for the low quality but that is how it came out.

[Drifter]

Topic: Murderous Intent

Poster: Arch

Murderous Intent

The Visalia Ransacker exhibited murderous intent when he shot Prof. Snelling. Once the VR heard Prof. Snelling coming after his daughter, the VR had the option of just leaving. He, instead, waited for Prof. Snelling to come out the back door. He then shot him in cold blood. And then shot him again. And then he kicked Beth Snelling in the face.

The EAR exhibited no such murderous intent until Offerman/Manning. The VR wanted to shoot Prof. Snelling. That is why he waited for him instead of just running off. He displayed the same sick murderous intent with Det. McGowen. It was McGowen's flashlight that saved his life.

I do not think anyone could argue against describing the VR as a murderer not a rapist. (Although it is reasonable to conclude that may have been his original intent). But no one knows what the VR would have done with Beth Snelling after he was through with whatever he had planned. I do not think that she would have lived to tell us. He murdered one person and attempted to murder a peace officer. He raped no one. The EAR was a rapist not a murderer until 12/30/79 even though he was thinking about it. The VR didn't think about it. He just did it.

In the Rodney Miller situation, whoever shot him knew that Rod Miller was not going to stop chasing after him. Once the EAR hopped a few fences, most people (including Stan Los) stopped following him. Rod Miller was an 18 year old and was going to follow the prowler wherever he went. The VR hit McGowen's flashlight with no problem (thinking that McGowen's head was behind it).

Rod Miller was shot in the gut. Rod Miller's head would have been the perfect target as that would have been the first thing visible. The VR would have taken him out. That is the difference I see in comparing the two shootings. The act of waiting for the victim to come over the fence is similar between McGowen's and Miller's shooting.

The murderous intent is vastly different.

Response from DanCartell


You raise some......

very interesting points regarding differences and they certainly are worth some very serious consideration regarding differences between the offenders........

On the other side of the argument thre are odd quirks and similarities between EAR and VR which are quite interesting, hence the question is how do you explain them away ? since the list of similarities is quite long I cant just dismiss them as coincidence between two offenders......

What I am trying to get to here is a third possibility that I had never considered : supposing EAR is not VR -yet they share some similar characteristics- is it possible that these two may have come across each other at some type of institution like the slammer or a mental hospital and then shared or picked ideas of MO ? Certain things about EAR have led me to wonder if he did some time in the slammer .......


Response from Arch
Odd Quirks

Both offenders had similar quirks with regard to "bizarre burglaries". One of the tell-tale signs of the Ransacker is that he would spread women's undergarments throughout the house as part of his ritual. No such ritual in the EAR's burglaries. If that kind of ransacking was done even once in those early EAR pre-rape burglaries from April 1976 to June 1976, I might have the opposite opinion. That does not compute. That is how the Ransacker got his jollies. Nothing like that in Sacramento. No hang up phone calls in Visalia. That is part of how the EAR got his jollies. But these are minor differences. That murderous intent. The VR had it when he shot Prof. Snelling and shot at Det. McGowen. The EAR did not exhibit a propensity for murder until 12/30/79.


Response from confidence is the balaclava

If youre going on just this theory, the continuum of violence and what you believe to be ear's 'intent', then things can seem pretty solid.

When you let in the idea that ear stopped to shoot the kid, like VR stopped to shot the father, then things get questionable. When you add that 'ear' (because we think it was ear) shot the kid at close range from below as the kid was coming over the fence, then youd have to admit that you cannot be sure that he didnt mean to get him in the gut, that he was going for the heart, throat, head... and when youre being chased and you stop to ambush the chaser and shoot him in motion at close range, dont you automatically take on the intent that doing so might be fatal? And if it was fatal, and especially if ear was vr, then he would most likely think, So what? He shouldnt have been chasing me; he got what he deserved. Because both VR and Ears were psychopaths.

But I think the biggest area of reservation I have with your argument is that you believe one of two things he said cannot co-exist. The bakersfield comment could have been a lie. It could also have been a truth couched in a lie (that the people he killed were in bakersfield). We both think he's too smart too tell LE where he killed anyone, had he even done it.

The second thing he said, I believe to be the truth. Ears did tell the truth sometimes. We know he did in his poem. He did move south (at least to commit more crimes there). He told the truth about adding the 'mafia wife' to his list of recent conquests. He probably was telling the truth about how his leisure tempted him to his crimes, whether that meant leisure time from school, or work, or that he didnt work at all and led a life of leisure/crime is questionable, but we know for a fact that he spent a lot of 'leisure' time on his hobby/lifestyle.

I believe he was also telling the truth when he said that he was going to kill. And I believe that he was being specific to his rape crimes as the EAR. I believe that from his perspective, these fantasy crimes were special to any other crimes he may have committed, and that as he realized how successful he was in making them real and eluding LE, that it became a game for him. As far as LE knew about ears, he had never killed anyone, so it wouldnt serve ear to being up any murders had there even been any. But I do believe 100% that when he mentions killing, he mentions it specifically to the rape crimes he's been known for to the LE. I also think he's so keyed up when he talks about it not because he's mad at the cops as half as he's excited thinking about killing his rape victims. Which we know he eventually did, and because it probably excited him to do so.


Response from Drifter

Oh but they are not minor differences. They are major differences. You are describing totally separate, contrasting behavioral patterns, en route to a perfectly logical conclusion.

Response from Arch

Drifter,

You are right. They are two completely different paraphilias. As Balaclava pointed out, the VR exhibited to fascination or fixation on women's undergarments. No such fixation from the EAR. That is a major clue that we're dealing with two separate offenders.


Response from Arch 
Mixing Lies with Truth

TCITB,

I hear what you are saying and it is possible that the EAR was mixing a little truth with lies. And if the EAR is also the VR, that would be the only way to interpret those contradictory statements. However, I am looking at the context in which the statement was made.

"Those f*****s, those f*****s, those pigs. I’ve never killed (any of my rape victims) before, but I’m going to now.

First, the person who shot Prof. Snelling needed little justification to kill. The psych profile of the EAR said that once the EAR killed, he would need less justification to kill again. (As is what happened in Southern CA). So what do the "pigs" do? They not only report the attack to the media. They release the psych profile basically calling the EAR a latent homosexual and say that he is inadequately endowed.

How does the EAR react? He does not kill his next two victims. He does not kill anyone until over two years later. Many of those victims provided him with adequate justification (if he had already overcome his reluctance to kill).

The potential Visalia link was reported May 18th, 1977. So the cat was out of the bag. 10 days later on May 28, 1977, what better way to react to the clear provocation by the SCSD than to tell the next two victims that he had already killed? Or better yet, to make good on his threat. I do not think that the VR would have any problem doing that.

He was already angry with the police. Now they publicly call him a closet homosexual and tell everyone that he had a tiny pecker. And what is the EAR's reaction? (who is supposed to be the VR who already killed and shot at one of their own?)

He reiterates his threat. Does not kill anyone and instead, moves on to Stockton. That is what Dr. Jekyll would do. Mr. Hyde would kill two people and blame it on "those pigs" for not doing what he told them to do.


Response from confidence is the balaclava

Oh but they are not really major differences. Sexual sadists dont have one or two paraphilias, they have a smorgesbord of them, on a revolving lazy susan. A major one for ears was bondage, obviously/ Was there ever evidence of a bondage fixation in VR crime scenes? Rope, laces, clothes, anything tied left in the homes as a symbolic signature by the VR?

As far as crank calls go, VR/EAR could have just discovered them in the VR crimes, and then used them on the women he raped as a means of control through terror in the EAR crimes.

The lingerie. VR could do weird obsessive stuff with them and use them for sexual gratification because he didnt have a real person to do that to. Ears did have a woman or girl right there in front of him, so then he didnt need to fuss around with lingerie then. Symbolic violence to women turned actual violence on them.


Response from confidence is the balaclava

Im not sure of the timeline wrt the cops saying he was an underendowed man in a homosexual panic, but the effect it has on him is to make him mad at the cops. ( And maybe try out a penis extender, once.) He says that he's going to kill "them" (LE/the pigs) He's not extra mad at the women he ties up and rapes, after that news comes out. He didnt take his anger about those specific things out on any of them. His anger grew in a general way as the attacks went on, but it was a natural progression. He thought of the women as things he collected, toys; they had no agency. He was *ed at the cops who were *ing with him, challenging his power.

Cant you just say that he hadnt worked himself up to the next level of violence in his attacks? That has to do with some other things, too, like maybe he wasnt so bored of raping and terrorizing them at that point? That it was plenty satisfying for him, and he really didnt work up to that level of violence until he was challenged physically, scared, by a few of them. The cops werent the catalyst to upping his violent rapes to murder.

Response from Arch 

TCITB,

This is why I do not think the VR is also the EAR. You are correct about the VR's paraphilia evolving to sexual assault. That is a valid argument. The problem for the VR also being the EAR is that the VR continued with his panty raids even after murdering Prof. Snelling and trying to kidnap his daughter.

No surprise. He was obviously back to obtaining sexual gratification through the ransacking and panty throwing. But how do we then explain the burglaries in Sacramento prior to June 18, 1976? If that was the VR, he is now no longer obtaining psycho-sexual enjoyment. There was no ransacking or panty throwing. But there were no rapes either. Serial offenders are driven by their obessions. Now all of a sudden, the VR is "over" his need to ransack and throw panties.

I don't think so.

Response from Arch

The timeline is that the EAR made the statement about "tell those f*****s, those pigs" first. In response to the threat to kill "two people" as well as cops, the SCSD released the phony composite threat and the provocative psychological profile and the information about the EAR's diminutive genitalia. My argument is that if this was the VR, the guy with the murderous intent, he would have went out and killed his next two victims as promised.

The first part of the EAR's rant said that he was going to kill "two people". If he was referring to police officers, he would have used his derogatory term for them. Here is what he said:

"He got real excited and whispered, ‘Those f*****s, those f*****s, those pigs. I’ve never killed before, but I’m going to now. Listen, do you hear me? I want you to tell those f*****s, those pigs. I’m going to go home to my apartment and I have bunches of televisions. I’m going to listen to the
radio and watch television and if I hear about this, I’m going to go out tomorrow night and kill two people. People are going to die."

He then followed up his threat to include killing police, too. This is what he said in follow up:

‘Those f*****s, those f*****s, those pigs, those pigs, those f*****s. I’m going to kill them, too.’ I thought he wanted me to say something so I told him I would tell them tomorrow. He said, ‘Okay, tell them I’m going to kill those f*****s.’

So, essentially, he was threatening to kill "two people". And then he was also threatening to kill police officers. And then the SCSD released the information about the EAR being a closet homosexual and having a tiny johnson.

The most important point is that something the police did between May 14, 1977 and May 17, 1977 seriously *ed off the EAR. I think that SOE is right about the EAR volunteering the information about going to "his apartment" was meant to cover the fact that the EAR was living in a house (or a van according to Drifter) but not an apartment.

Response from Junkhead 

The conversation Arch posted is interesting to me because its one of the few times EAR spoke to his victims conversationally. Instead of just using threats and telling people to shut up whenever they spoke up. In fact I can't think of another one except for the time he told the woman something happened to his face. She spoke to him a little. I guess victims talking was not part of his fantasy. Maybe he didn't want them humanizing themselves.

"Bunches of televisions" is up near the top with me for funniest EAR quote. Maybe its wrong to find stuff about this case funny, but you gotta laugh sometimes.


Response from Port

Arch- This is akin to saying Colonel Russell Williams couldn't be a panty raider and a rapist murderer because they are two different behaviors. He was a prolific panty raider but he also transformed into a rapist/murderer, He no longer needed panties from his murder victims since he filmed their murders, just as EAR took personal jewelry. The FDLE even mentions that "ONS may have photographed his murder victims." i would venture to say that the VR's placement of underwear was as ritualistic as William's - i believe i read somewhere that VR once left underwear turned inside out.. . sounds like he might have been trying them on. i think, in the end, EAR ONS will be someone very much like Williams and not a disorganized drug addict. His meds were probably prescription. It's interesting to me also that Williams frequently stripped naked to masturbate while he watched young women through windows without them ever knowing he was there. Note in the timeline link at the bottom that he may have committed a rape and murder while in college.

Toronto Star 10/28/2010“

He escalated quickly, from fetish break-ins, to sex assaults with no penetration to rape and murder. He logged his crimes, kept track of police reports of his crimes and left notes and messages for his victims.

“Merci,” he thanked a 12-year-old in a typed message on her computer.. . . .

There was a pattern to the photos he would take during a break-in: He would first photograph the bedroom of his victim, then the underwear in her dresser. He would then arrange the lingerie neatly on a bed or on the floor, before modeling them and ejaculating.”

The court heard of Williams’ chilling escalation from fetish burglaries, to sex assault and finally murder from September 2007 to January 2010. On July 10, 2009, he was at a neighbour’s house in Tweed, which he would eventually break into nine times. This was his sixth visit.At 1:30 a.m., he watched as the young woman stripped and stepped in the shower. Williams stripped naked, broke into her home, walked to her bedroom and stole her panties. “He admitted that at this point he wanted to take more risks,” Morrison said.In another escalation, he hoped to watch a teenager undress, and while waiting outside her window, stripped naked in the bushes and masturbated."

maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Psyc%20405/serial%20killers/Williams,%20David%20Russell.pdf


Response from thelostsock wrote ...

Sexual Burglaries and Sexual Homicide research by Schlesinger and Revitch

www.jaapl.org/content/27/2/227.full.pdf

Of 43 men who had made serious attacks on women, including beating, choking, knifing, and
nine murders. Here, only 3 offenders had a history of prior sexual offenses while 12
(28%) had a record of burglary. Four of the 12 (33%) combined burglary with assault
on the female occupant.

Ressler and his associates' ' found that at least 2 of the 36 sexual murderers
in their FBI-sponsored study had committed sexual burglaries days or hours before
they committed a sexual homicide. Unfortunately, these authors did not report
the total number of burglaries in their case histories.

Described in considerable detail 11 cases of notorious serial sexual murderers whom he either
studied or investigated as a profiler. Five of these 11 cases (45%) had a history of
burglary. In Ressler and ~hachtman's'" description of 19 serial sexual murderers,
6 (32%) had a history of burglary.

Douglas
and 0lshaker'~similarly report on 16
sexual murderers of which 6 (38%) had a
history of burglary.

If you look at the table presented only 39.2% of the men that became sexual murderers had a history of burglary.

Just because the VR was a sexual burglar doesn't mean he continued on to be a sexual murderer.


Response from SpeakelOfEngrish

Nope. But when you consider the overwhelming number of similar or identical characteristics (see my post in the "Reasonable Conclusions" thread) between the two offenders, some of which are pretty specific, it's difficult to accept they're two different people.

For instance, find me some other burglaries in which the perp used a makeshift alarm system constructed of common household items. Or Google the phrase "I'm going to come over and * you." Not many hits. There's enough erotic literature on the Web to give this phrase ample opportunities to crop up, yet, it doesn't.

Response from thelostsock

What should a rapist say? I'm coming over to paint your house?

Response from SpeakelOfEngrish

Yes, you moron.

Response from thelostsock

Of 43 men who had made serious attacks on women, including beating, choking, knifing, and
nine murders. Here, only 3 offenders had a history of prior sexual offenses

The other interesting part of this research is the low history of prior sexual offenses by the offenders.

[Drifter]

Topic: Drs. Robert Offerman and Debra Alexandra Manning
Poster: Arch

Dec. 30, 1979 - Drs. Robert Offerman and Debra Alexandra Manning

33 years ago today, the EAR murdered his first known victims. After the failed attempt in Danville, where the EAR possibly believed that his intended victims saw his face (he was putting on his ski mask when he was confronted), he left the South Bay area and turned up in Goleta, CA on Oct. 1, 1979. Still in the Goleta area 3 months later, the EAR presumably went on a mini-burglary spree that ended with him breaking into Offerman's condo.

For the first time ever, the EAR did not separate the male from the female. Dr. Offerman was able to loosen his bindings and appeared to lunge at the EAR. This provided the EAR with the "justification" that psychologists said he needed to commit an act of murder. Psychologists also said that once the EAR murdered, he would need less and less justification to kill again. This apparently was true.

Many things bother me about the Southern CA crimes. We know where the EAR was on October 1, 1979. But where was he between Oct. 1 1979 and Dec. 30, 1979? We know what his usual pattern of prowling, stalking and hang-up phone calls would have been. If the EAR was living (or visiting family or friends) in Goleta, where are the additional "bizarre burglaries" in that 3 month span of time? Where are the victims of prowlings and hang-up phone calls?

Also, if either Prof. Snelling or the Maggiores were his first murder victims, why then did it take so long for him to kill again? The prevailing wisdom (from serial offenders, no less) was that the EAR wanted all along to murder. After he killed Offerman and Manning, he no longer needed justification to kill his victims. If Snelling or the Maggiores were his first murder victims, this "continuum" makes no sense. It theoretically would have been easier for the EAR to kill, yet he committed 20 more rapes after the Maggiores were murdered. If he wanted to kill all along, then what stopped him after the Maggiore debacle (if he was responsible)?

Akin to that question, why did the EAR not have a firearm at Goleta 1? If he moved to Southern CA, would not all of his belongings be there with him? If he had a firearm with him at Goleta 1, why did he not brandish it? Or fire it? Especially after losing control of the last Danville crime scene (where the EAR cr@pped his pants).

Finally, why did it take the EAR so long to return to Goleta?

Response from Bear99

Greg Glasby has no problem talking...Thing is what to believe. He is upset however because even after Cruz would rule out Brett and even after the dna of D/S, people in Goleta still think Brett did these crimes.
 

Response from confidence is the balaclava

There's no way I'm going to shift through all the bullsh1t on this thread, but a few points ...

It isnt unusual for ears to have gone back to the same place/yard to borrow a dog for two crimes. Because that is what he did: recon. This was his hobby (or his projects, to borrow from another killer). He went through a neighborhood and watch the people in them like he was watching tv. He saw what was going on behind the doors of these homes, and seems to have kept notes. He was also fanatical about using what worked for him.

Ear did call before attacks and say things, the attack on the reserve captain shows that. He to;d her he was going to kill her husband. He has also supposedly called and spoken to kids about when their mother is coming home, and he seems to also be playing games, such as calling and asking for someone else at the home, then calling back and just listening. Pulling one over on and scaring people for his own amusement.

Who is bear and who's dog did he think 3-toe belonged to?

If Katie Maggiore was being stalked and threatened with rape, did she go to the cops about it? Where does this info come from? And was she threatened over drug issues?
She is not the prototypical type that ears supposedly went for according to Sudden Terror (but neither were the ons victims).

See, this is a problem, thinking that ears was in tight with the Glasbys. If he were a criminal cohort of theirs, he wouldnt leave a fuck_ng pair of shoelaces or even have them in his pocket for an unrelated hit.
If he knew them, there's no way they were in tight with him and didnt notice he was odd compared to them., even if was something as trifling as always chewing 3sticks of gum, religiously. Criminals can be dumb, but they can also have a sixth sense for someone who could be trouble for them. If he wasnt related, he wasnt that close to them, sounds like. If LE had come to them and said your dog was found at the scene of the crime and could you give us idea of any people who mightve taken him, you bet your ass they would have given up the odd thumb that they werent even close with. And if they really pushed them, maybe t hose closer.
As far as drugs go, we know of only one home invasion where drugs were taken. No one else reports weed stolen, which out of 40+ homes of young people, you know there was some to be taken. Same with legal drugs. No painkillers or diet pills were taken. Also, not clear but, none seem to have been taken in the routine compulsive B&Es he did, which had to be another 40 or 5x that amount. Would even a small time drug dealer pass up things he could make a pure profit on? No/ And neither would even a casual drug user. And again, if he were a smalltime robber, why are we lead to believe that nothing of value was taken during his non-targeted B&Es?

Glasby is a dead end, unless someone is willing to go down and interview the Glasby cohorts. Not the kind to talk? I doubt it. If youre in prison and you can talk about your glory days, you will, just to break the monotony. The fact that the interviewer is looking for someone who was most likely an outlier in the group means he can blabber all he wants and not compromise others much. And if he believe this person is dead, he'll be more than forthcoming.
You are mistaken about many things. LE was aware Katie was being stalked at her place of employment. Katie also received phone calls. And why do you call it bull? Because you didn't write it? The dog is currently considered a red herring by LE. After recently reviewing the SB case it became evident that the dog was not as important as once thought. I know I'm posting briefly but I've been sick and don't have the energy to post much. Drifter..when I'm feeling better I will send you some info regarding the Glasby clan. I also was in communication with a very close relative of the Glasby's and he felt Brett was murdered by LE! So there are many stories surrounding this case. It took over a year to sort out fact from fiction..

 

Response from guessting

"[balaclava] You are mistaken about many things"

Response from Drifter

That's one of balaclava's problems. Another is her inability to write. With her long-winded, rambling, muddled inanity, and her unfounded over-confidence, she seriously detracts from the general trend of discussion in every thread wherein she posts.


Response from guessting 

"Drifter..when I'm feeling better I will send you some info regarding the Glasby clan".

Response from confidence is the balaclava

You two. One is smug and hysterical. The other is smug and pompous. Smugness must make people blowhards and harpies.

"One need not...blahblahblahbleeggh" Pomposity, right there. And cowardice. He wants to run away to a secret meeting board, where he can endlessly condescend to the members about how they have tiny, puny, weak little brains because they cant "think out of the box", and how he has such a magnificent intellect because he can come up with such brilliant theories, such as the book about earons mentions vans 27! times and because of that and the fact that earons tells his victims that he has a van, .....then he must have been using reverse psychology and he actually had a van!!1!

Not that it matters to you, because your reading comprehension is sh!t and youre looking for something to tell me Im wrong about and how you hold all the secrets of this case, remember everyone? , but I was not wrong. I was asking whether LE knew about the stalking, and the dog.

Tell us, Almighty Oracle, why do you not bestow upon the peons of this board-that-is-so- instrumental-in-catching-earons, the holy unvarnished truth that you clutch so furiously to your sainted breast?

Answer: it cant be tested for truth, and it would take away her identity as someone Important. Also,she gets too much! pleasure out of laying a hint of something she 'knows' and then smirking and simpering off. Im sure other people who have waded through this board have seen her hint years ago about something sooooooooooooooooooo important that only she knows and how it will be the silver bullet to catching earons. Then, years go by. And by. And by...

So the 3toed dog is a "red herring" because youve alluded to a secret source that told you so. Great. Everybody, scratch the 3toed dog off your list of theories. You have heard the word of the TRUTH straight from the burning bush.

[Drifter]

Topic: Mr. Leather Jacket and Mr. Ski Jacket
Poster: Arch


Mr. Leather Jacket and Mr. Ski Jacket

Suspects #1 and #2

It deserves to be reiterated that the two full-bodied sketches of suspects seen fleeing the area of the Maggiore murders represent two different people. Two men matching the physical description of Mr. Leather Jacket and Mr. Ski Jacket were seen together by a witness minutes before the shooting. They were then seen by two separate witnesses minutes after the shooting.

When they were seen together (prior to the shooting), the witness saw the dark stain on the back of Mr. Leather Jacket and saw what presumably was a gun in the back pocket of Mr. Ski Jacket. Both men were reported wearing gloves. Mr. Ski Jacket is clearly wearing gloves in the full-bodied sketch.

A case can be made for one of the witnesses getting the jacket descriptions wrong. A case cannot be easily made that three different witnesses got the jacket descriptions wrong. None of these witnesses were under duress as none of them knew what happened at the time they witnessed the suspects.

The key to Mr. Leather Jacket (besides the material that the jacket was made of) is the spot on the back of the jacket and the jacket being waist length and gathered at the waist by an elastic band. The key to Mr. Ski Jacket (besides the material) is the length of the jacket going past his waist and the gun in his back pocket.

If the EAR was involved in the Maggiore murders (as everyone seems to believe) he did not act alone. These two men were stalking the Maggiores prior to the shooting and they intended on killing them that evening. More importantly, the Maggiores knew that they were being stalked and realized too late what these two b*st*rds had in mind.

Response from watermokasin3

Ok gotcha. So the theory is EAR was doing a hit on the Maggiores with someone else? Must have been alot of money involved to do something that cold.

Response from zforce

Maggiore Composites
Does anyone have a map or the info of where the people who developed the composites were in relation to the crime scene?


Response from sammyt   

Ok gotcha. So the theory is EAR was doing a hit on the Maggiores with someone else? Must have been alot of money involved to do something that cold.
If it was related to major drug smuggling at airforce bases, then the sums of money involved would have been enormous.
Sgt. Maggiore was possibly a 'thorn in the side' of the airmen involved in the drugs trade.
 

Response from Arch

WM3,

There was a $300 Million dollar heroin smuggling operation in which the airbases (including Mather AFB) were pivotal. Members of the 320th had to have been complicit in that operation (or they were completely incompetent in their security duties).
 
Response from Arch

ZForce,

Mr. Leather Jacket and Mr. Ski Jacket were last seen together near the corner of La Gloria Way and West La Loma Drive approx. 3 minutes before the shooting. Another witness saw the Maggiores on West La Loma Drive headed toward La Gloria Way at about the same time. The Maggiores ran through a backyard of a house on La Gloria Way and ended up in the backyard of a house on La Alegria Drive.

Response from Arch

Perception is Everything

If it was related to major drug smuggling at airforce bases, then the sums of money involved would have been enormous.
Sgt. Maggiore was possibly a 'thorn in the side' of the airmen involved in the drugs trade.

SammyT,

There were rumors circulating around Mather that Sgt. Maggiore was an undercover informant who was responsible for drug arrests on other airbases. That is all it would have taken to make him a target. As mentioned in other posts, there was an actual undercover informant who was central in the drug-related arrests of members of the 320th that occurred in 1979. This "informant" was transferred from Mather "for his own safety" before the arrests were made. There were obvious concerns about retaliation. In the world of criminals, one of the lowest things you can be is a snitch or rat. In prison, just being accused of being a snitch is enough to get you killed.

Response from SammyT 


Arch

If (and for me it's a big if) EAR-ONS was involved in the Maggiore killings then it tells us the following things:


*EAR was a 'macho' type in his everyday life - you wouldn't recruit your accountant or librarian to take part in a 'hit'.

*EAR was involved in the drug trade - either he was a drug dealer or an 'up to no good' airforce worker.

*EAR was not TK - TK was the ultimate loner or 'billy-no-mates' and there is no way he was part of any team let alone a 'hit' squad.

If EAR was involved in the Maggiore killings, then I would favour the idea that he was a drug dealer.

There are lots of drug links in the EAR-ONS case.

According to victims, the EAR 'knew his way around drugs'.

The sniffer dogs seemed to pick up a scent - perhaps drug related.

The EAR also seemingly purchased a car that was owned by a drug dealer.

Most tellingly, the EAR mentioned to a woman that he had seen her at an airbase - a 'real' airman wouldn't let that information slip, but a drug dealer making an occasional and unrecorded visit to the base as a 'guest' might do.

The EAR being a player in airforce drug trafficking would also explain why he was apparently 'waved through' with ease by airbase security.

Of course all this is only relevant if EAR-ONS was one of the Maggiore killers.

Response from Cimmerian10

SammyT: Normally I would not feel compelled to respond to this thread because I have little interest in the Maggiore case and I will be spending little or no time on this website from now on. But because you mentioned TK, I'm just going to make it clear that he did have accomplices. 12/11/1985 TK deposits $10.00 in to one of his bank accounts in Helena, MT. Just minutes later the "Unabomber" is placing a bomb behind Rentech computer store in Sacramento, CA. Additionally, people knew about TK's crimes long before he was apprehended in 1996. In 1990 a Texas resident published a book called "Technophobia" which very few people have read. The main character of the book is an unshaven Berkeley professor who kills campus faculty and students with knives. A person or persons calling themselves "Individuals Tending Towards the Savage" is currently bombing university targets in Latin America and Europe. TK is probably in contact with whoever is responsible.


Response from Koba1879 

One thing
The EAR was also a child rapist, and everything I have seen / read about prison and criminals is that they despise pedophiles just as much or more as the regular community. When someone is new to prison everyone is curious about what they are in for, and if it turns out its because of anything to do with children they are targeted, cut up and attacked.
Therefore If EAR was a macho criminal hitman dealing with other criminals in his daily life he would not want anything to link him to his real identity even to other crims who couldn't turn him in for personal reasons
 

Response from dengas


Probably in many cases the above is true, however Oscar Clifton was never targeted, even though he supposedly murdered a 15 year old girl.

Response from sumrdays
 
What color was the waist length jacket with the stain on it? A goldy-yellow?


Response from f1guyus

Can't Pin it Down
But sometime in the 1960's California started putting sex offenders and child molesters in separate prison housing. One of my reservist friends was an instructor at the local juvenile detention center and he was very upset when a wing of the facility was dedicated to adult sex offenders. It was just too dangerous (for the offenders) to put them in the general population at a level 3 or 4 prison. It's why so many of them survive prison and get to re-offend when they are paroled or released. See Richard Allen Davis. who was arrested 5 or more times, convicted 4 times and got out to murder Polly Klass.

[Drifter]

Topic: Police Reports
Poster: Arch

Police Reports

One aspect of this investigation that has to be addressed is the limitations of police reports. Generally speaking, police reports are an imperfect representation of what happened. They are a subjective interpretation of what actually occurred. Rarely do victims/witnesses get to review and make changes or addendums to the "official" crime report. There are different reasons for this. One function (that LE will never admit to) is CYA. It allows the writer of the report to control what is known about the event.

Because what is written down becomes what happened (even though it may or may not be what actually happened). This is so that later in court, when an officer is cross examined about "what happened", his version is the one that will carry the most weight in court. So, for instance, confessions of suspects are not videotaped (even when video is available). Instead, the investigator writes down what he wants the suspect to confess to and the suspect (usually under some sort of duress) signs it and it becomes the "official" record. Note: this situation has changed drastically within the last few decades because of prior abuses revealed by the Innocence Project).

In the case of Mrs. Appel, she stated in the interview that the RO (reporting officer) neglected to put down the age of the offender and the full description because he had already pre-determined that it was the teen who had been prowling the area. So, when Capt. Rupf reads the report, "it does not square with what he was reading in the newspaper article". I know for a fact that Rupf would not want to be caught in the press disputing what a fellow officer had written down. So, now, our natural (and conditioned) response is to question not the officer who took the report but rather the witness who is disputing what was written down.

The most extreme example is the kid who sauntered out of the condo next to Offerman's during the murder investigation. If you read the "official report", there was no kid who walked out of the condo next door. The investigator who spoke to the kid didn't write anything down. So whatever the kid told him in 1979 is something that he will take to his grave. When questioned about the kid, the investigator got selective memory and wouldn't give up the kid's name. Luckily, we were able to determine the kid's name and he was eventually questioned by the SB investigators and cleared of any involvement.

In the case of the Oldsmobile. The "official report" says that a known drug trafficker was the driver of the Oldsmobile and therefore he could not have anything to do with the rape that occurred. Problem is, the drug trafficker was dead 6 months prior to the Oct. 17th, 1976 incident. So the "official report" is wrong.

With regards to the "kitten man", if Inv. Montgomery checked the "official report" about the information provided by the witness and there was no mention of the KM, that should not be where the investigation into the matter ends. That should be where the investigation into the matter begins. The witness provided enough information whereby his contention could be verified. However, to date (and to my knowledge) no effort has been made to verify the information. (I pray that I am wrong about this).

So, in the case of the San Ramon witness, the Oldsmobile driver and the "kitten man", the reponse has been similar. Look at the "official report" and if it does not square with what is being said 30+ years later, go with what was written down originally and then discredit what the witness is now saying.

As a rule, I never question or discredit what a witness has said UNLESS and UNTIL there is a legitimate basis to do so. I have been fed bogus information in the past that has resulted in wild goose chases. But once a witness has been discredited, then I can no longer take them at their word. To date, I have found no basis to question what the witness has said about the "kitten man" incident. It may turn out that Port is right and the KM has no bearing on the case. That is something that will be determined after the KM is identified. But when you add the meowing at the window (there are media reports that Janelle and her friend thought the noise they heard was a cat) and the body-builder/Marine Janelle was dating (according to Michelle), then a picture is emerging of people who have not been identified who knew Janelle shortly before she was murdered.

One of the reasons that I prefer to communicate with witnesses via email is because I can forward EXACTLY what they have said to investigators. In the past, while talking with them on the phone, so much crucial and critical information was lost. I have looked back on notes that I have scribbled down and most times I can't make heads or tails out of my own notes. I have also received information that was passed along by a third party. When I got a chance to talk to the original witness, the information passed along had little resemblance to what was actually said by the witness because what was said originally is being interpreted by the person receiving the info verbally.

What is at issue is not whether the driver of the Oldsmobile is the EAR or a narcotics trafficker, or whether Mr. Tank Top was the EAR or some other backyard prowler who was also 5'10, muscular, sandy-haired, unafraid of dogs, who disguised his voice. The issue is not whether the KM was the EAR or the figment of imagination. The issue is whether or not these incidents were properly and thoroughly investigated. Like so many othe aspects of the EAR/ONS case, they have not been, IMO.

Put yourselves in the position of the victims and their families. Do you want the investigators to assume that these various people had nothing to do with the murder of their loved ones or do you want them to properly and thoroughly investigate these incidents, locate these suspects and then determine at that point whether they had anything to do with these crimes.

Had anyone done this prior to DMV purging their vehicle registration records, this case would have been over a long, long time ago. If the information about the drug trafficker being dead in April of 1976 was discovered in October of 1976 (and the suspicious blonde-haired driver of the Oldsmobile was the EAR) this case would have been over before it even got started.

Thorough and proper investigation. That is what was needed back in 1976. That is what is needed now.

Addendum: the witness who saw the Maggiore killer jump the fence said that the suspect was wearing a ski mask. (He was an art student). However, he provided a sketch of the suspect and in his sketch, there was no ski mask. He also described the color of the suspect's hair. Has anyone investigated that glaring inconsistency? No. Pick and choose which aspect of which conflicting report you are going to believe and don't ask the hard questions. That seems to be how things work in the real world.

Response from catch_him

"Put yoursleves in the position of the victims and their families. Do you want the investigators to assume that these various people had nothing to do with the murder of their loved ones or do you want them to properly and thoroughly investigate these incidents, locate these suspects and then determine that they had nothing to do with the crimes."

I couldn't have said it better myself and you just addressed my MAIN POINT in quotes. The rest of your post is brillant, spot on as usual.

Response from f1guyus

Don't Get Me Started
About police reports.

Response from Arch
 
I am a strong supporter of law enforcement. They have thankless jobs and it is so much easier to criticize than it is to praise. Also, hindsight is 20/20 (and a tired cliche now). But in this particular case, there have been fifty+ 261 victims and ten+ 187 victims. The same old excuses as to why this case has not been solved (or why this suspect or this lead was not investigated) will not suffice. If we cannot identify the EAR/ONS, we can at least get an accounting as to why he has not been identified. That is the least that we owe the victims and their family members. We also should be able to say that we properly investigated every lead and every suspect. In short, we did our best to try and provide some closure.

I do not feel that we can collectively say that at this point.
 
Response from Arch

Reading Between the Lines

This is something that I've learned to do with police reports. Sometimes what is not said is as important as what is said. In the interview with Inv. Montgomery, note what was not said. What he didn't say is that he re-interviewed the witness (who is the source of the KM) and it was thoroughly investigated and a suspect could not be developed. That would be good enough for me but that is not what was said.

Same with the San Ramon witness. Capt. Rupf did not say that the witness was re-interviewed and even though it was determined that the teen was not the person she saw, we still could not determine who Mr. Tank Top was. Here is a composite sketch of the person Mrs. Appel saw.

So, I can recognize typical double-speak in both these situations. It is short-hand for "don't try to tell us how to do our jobs". We don't think that either of these incidents have anything to do with the EAR/ONS so we're not going to waste our time looking into them. Add the Oldsmobile info to that mix. The problem is that the incidents have to be investigated before any determination can be made as to whether it was the EAR/ONS. The determination is being made BEFORE the incident (or allegation) is investigated. Cart before the horse. I've seen it so many times in jursidiction after jurisdiction that it should come as no surprise now. Considering this rather curious approach to rape and homicide investigation, it should also come as no surprise that no one knows who the EAR/ONS is.

Response from catch_him

Arch can you give your thoughts on Port's post

Port begin quote "I happen to not believe that kitten man holds any significance to this case. Det.Montgomery interviewed the poster who relayed the kitten man story. Montgomery has an impressive reputation as a detective. Janelle's case was waylaid by a false confession, but I am convinced that Heany, Pool and Montgomery have thoroughly investigated Janelle's circle of male acquaintances. I personally have looked at two other Marines within her circle and neither were viable suspects.. .mainly because of where they were stationed during other EAR ONS crimes. They mystery Marine at the beach may have been known to one of Janelle's friends. Most teenage girls discuss attractive guys they meet." end of Port's post


Response from Arch.

I agree with everything that Port says.

I only add that (to my knowledge) the kitten man information has not been properly investigated. I had contacted the witness who provided the KM information and at the time (it's been well over a year now) he had not been contacted by any investigator regarding his information.

One Minor Point of Contention

All of the above mentioned investigators missed the Oldsmobile information. The vehicle registration information may have been available in 2001. If they missed that, what else have they missed though out this investigation.

The Oldsmobile information was uncovered because a very simple question was asked: did anyone ever talk to the driver of the Oldsmobile to see if he saw anything?" When we attempted to find the driver (as identified in the report) we found out that he was dead 6 months prior to the incident where he was reportedly driving around Carmichael.

What should have happened at that point is investigators should have been able to say that we knew about that shortly after the report was written and it was checked out and the driver of the vehicle was identified and cleared.

That, however, is not what happened.


Response from catch_him

Arch, So kitten man holds no significance to the case?


Response from Arch

That is Port's opinion. It may turn out that Port is right. Port is smarter than I am.

My opinion is that he needs to be identified before it can be determined whether he holds any significance. I do not want to speak for Port, but I think she questions the veracity of the claim because it does not square with the original report as per Inv. Montgomery.

In that sense, if the claim is dubious (and I have not determined this to be a fact), then Port is right. I have not been satisfied that the claim is dubious. I am operating on the assumption that everything the witness said is true. As such, it needs to be properly and thoroughly investigated (by those who are not questioning the reliability of the witness ie Montgomery).


Response from catch_him

Oh okay. I think it should be looked into especially considering that kitten man was supposed to come by her house with the cat. Yet the night she was killed it was reported that it sounnded like a person making cat noises outside her house.

Response from Arch

CH,

I do not think that it is useful for all of us here to march in lock-step. Each of us have our own theories about the case. It wouldn't be productive for all of us to chase the same leads. I think C1521 has some very good ideas about how we should progress. Port and Guestting have some very good ideas on how we should progress. SOE, Sherlox, Bear99 etc. all have equally valid case theories. I am the slow, dim-witted one. I just ask simple-minded questions and then I want answers (that usually take years to get). I want to know who this freaking kitten man was. Only then can the investigation begin. I will badly quote Yule Brynner from the "Ten Commandments", If the Kitten Man "is a myth, bring him to me in bottle. If a man, bring him to me in chains". I don't think he's a myth.

Incidentally, the EAR A/B theory and the TK Theory were both valid theories at the time. Unfortunately, I looked seriously into both of them and they were found wanting. In the case of TK, I was already familiar with the Zodiac case, the EAR/ONS case as well as the Maggiore case, so it was easy for me to make a determination about the presentation of the evidence in that theory. Same with EAR A/B, I was already familiar with the evidence in the Goleta case so it was hard to dissuade me from the "facts". The DNA connection has validated my position on that case. DNA will validate my position on TK (but I don't think the Feds will ever get his DNA, something all of us should take careful note of).

Response from catch_him
I agree we all have our own theories that should all be looked in to. However, I don't like the fact that some are completely dismissing kitten man before it can be proven who he was. Nonetheless, all the theories should be investigated before we say impossible. Which I know is your way of doing things and it is my way of doing things. Now we need investigators to adopt that same mindset.

Response from Sherlox

Hey has anyone tried to track down the Tank Top Lady?

Response from Arch

CH,

I completely agree. But in the investigator's defense, they have so many other cases that they have to solve. They do not have the luxury of focusing on one case to the exclusion of the many other cases which need to be solved. They have to make a judgement call on which lead they will follow up on.

Their worst nightmare (and mine, too) is that they overlook a lead that will eventually prove to be the one which will identify the EAR/ONS.

Response from Arch

Posted By: Sherlox
Hey has anyone tried to track down the Tank Top Lady?

Yeah. She had passed away shortly before we figured out who she was. Her name wasn't Appel.


Response from catch_him

Arch, what would you say was LE biggest mistake back then?

Response from Arch

This Case Needs An Accountant...
Accountants look at the numbers that don't add up and keep looking until they find that one figure that is off by one decimal point. Then the accounts balance. That is what it is with the EAR/ONS case, there is one thing that everyone keeps missing. Once it's found, the case will be over. It might be the kitten man, it might be the driver of the Oldsmobile, it might be whoever committed the 3/7/73 burglary. If that was the EAR, where was he between 1973 and 1976? Was he beating the dog in 1974? If so, where was he in 1975?

Simple questions. Complicated answers apparently...

Response from Arch


Biggest Mistake...

It's a two-fer: The release of the phony "artist's conception" and San Ramon failing to get the witness' composite sketch of Mr. Tank Top.


Response from Sherlox

I'm sorry to hear that. From reading that newspaper article, it seems like she was one of the few people who did the right thing- she called police about an incident and she also spoke up afterwards and said that she thought police made a mistake. I hadn't thought of this but I suppose after so much time, some potential witnesses from those days are starting to get up there in age. A married couple who received strange calls (for example), both 30 years old in 1977 are now 64 years old. Time is against us in a lot of ways. Arch you just mentioned another when you said that the DMV records may have been purged in 2001. At least in the case of the DNA backlogs, time is on our side...

[Drifter]

Topic: Prowler Shoots Youth
Poster: Arch

February 16, 1977 - Prowler Shoots Youth

35 years ago Thursday, Rod Miller was shot by a prowler believed to be the EAR. A noise was heard coming from the patio. Miller and his father ran out into the backyard. The prowler ran across the court and jumped the neighbor’s fence. Miller pursued him. As Miller scaled the fence, he heard a gun being cocked. Before he could back off, he saw the prowler crouched beneath him and was shot, throwing his body backward. A second shot was fired. Miller was dragged to safety by his father. Suspect described as white male, approx. 20 yrs old, 5'10, 170 lbs, with straight blond hair wearing a blue watch cap, blue sweatshirt, dark pants and white tennis shoes.

In this case, the prowler was pursued and he fired at his pursuers. He did not continue to pursue either Miller or his father. There was a similar incident in Modesto where someone pursued a prowler and the prowler shot back but did not pursue. The prowler, in the case of Miller, left the crime scene via the backyard where he is less likely to be seen by witnesses.

This case is consistent with everything we know about the EAR/ONS. The Maggiore case is inconsistent with everything we know about the EAR/ONS.

www.ear-ons.com/articles/21677.pdf

(I'll be back later in the week. I'm taking a break for now).


Response from dengas

Distance?
I wonder what the range was for all of the shootings? Are we talking 10 feet, 15 feet, 20 feet? How accurate of a shot does one need to be to shoot a distance of 10 feet? 15 feet? 20 feet? I know little about guns, but we know the caliber in Visalia. Does the accuracy have to do with the caliber? I hate to show such ignorance, but when I hear people talk about what a good shot the VR was, I have always wondered whether it was a big deal, or not so big of a deal.

Response from dengas
deadbolt
did you post? I see that you did, but I am not seeing what you said!

Response from deadbolt

dengas
I think both McGowen and R. Miller were shot at from a distance of less than 10 feet. Relatively at close range, with the VR on his back and the EAR on his knees (according to POL). Tactically it's impressive; and shockingly bizarre that you have ski-masked creep running around a manicured, middle class neighborhood attacking people, etc.


Response from dengas

VR on his back?
Am I reading what you are saying correctly? Are you saying that the Visalia Ransacker was on his back when he fired the gun? In which instance was the EAR on his knees, and who/what is POL?
 
Response from deadbolt

Lurker Shooting 2

Are you saying that the Visalia Ransacker was on his back when he fired the gun?

I believe it was Archangel76 who wrote about this information on an EAR/ONS Message Board that is unfortunately now defunct. This was May 2010.

As for the McGowen Shooter, he screamed: "Don't shoot, don't shoot!" while turning his body in hopes of creating a diversion. He flailed one arm in the air while with the other, reached for his pocketed pistol. He then jumped over the small fence, landed on the grass and rolled over onto his back so he could get a stable firing position:

www.kensmith.com/insight1/ist00-28.jpg

In which instance was the EAR on his knees,

Or on his knee, when he shot R. Miller (from PortofLeith's post on this thread) Basically the shooter (EAR) was informed about combat firing techniques.

Response from Port

This gives more detail on the McGowen shooting. It says that the shooter "dived" over the fence, not jumped.

i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm241/portofleith-2008/Ransacker/VR_McG01-2.jpg

Response from Repoman

Very Agile
That fence is somewhere between 4' and 4'6" in height. To dive over that fence and then land without hurting yourself takes agility. No wonder this guy was so hard to catch. Do you have the rest of the article?

Response from Port

The rest of the article can be found in this album:

s298.photobucket.com/albums/mm241/portofleith-2008/Ransacker/


Response from dengas


on his back
Thank you for the information. I was unaware that he shot from that position (his back) and it seems even more amazing that he got up off the fround and got away.

Response from Sandia

Really interesting! This back firing position...does it indicate any type of training specifically. I mean where would this style of firing position be taught? The military? A police academy? both? how about a military school for youths?

Response from dengas


7' to 10' --
The suspect who shot Mr. Snelling was 7 - 10 feet away -- Also, the suspect and Mr. Snelling's daughter could see Mr. Snelling coming through the house towards the back door. Suspect "stood there and pointed the gun at the back door waiting for (her) father to come outside.

Was the VR really all that great a shot? Close range with McGowen and 7' to 10' range with Snelling... that doesn't seem all that amazing, especially when the suspect waited for Mr. Snelling to come through the back door. Is diving over a 4 to 4 1/2 foot fence something that one would need training in order to do? I would agree that it would take agility.

Response from Arch

Why No Discrediting of this Witness? Why is no one discrediting what this witness saw?


Response from Repoman 

Why is no one discrediting what this witness saw?
As I said before every witness account is different just as all people are different.

Response from Arch

I wish I knew more about this case...

Have not forgot about what happened to Rod Miller. He was someone who tried to do something in this case. The EAR's willingness to use deadly force when being pursued is what causes me to believe that he may be the Ranacker. The Ransacker was wanted for murder and had nothing to lose if caught. In this case, the EAR (and I am making an assumption here) was pursued and ambushed Miller and then took off. He did not continue to pursue him as in the case of the Maggiores. This is similar to the Ransacker when Prof. Snelling was shot. Prof. Snelling pursued the b**tard and was shot. Same with Det. McGowen. Very strong reason to at least suspect a connection.

[Drifter]

Topic: Reasonable Conclusions
Poster: Arch

Reasonable Conclusions

It is reasonable to come to the conclusion that the VR and the EAR are one and the same. It is reasonable to conclude that they are not the same person. It is reasonable to conclude that the EAR murdered the Maggiores. I do not think that it is reasonable to conclude that he acted alone. It is reasonable to conclude that the EAR was not involved in the murders of the Maggiore.

It depends on the weight one gives to which case facts. There are consistencies and inconsistencies. If you favor the consistencies, you will conclude that the cases are connected. If you favor the inconsistencies, you will discount a connection. It is not quite the glass being half full or half empty but you get the idea.

Prior to the DNA connection in Goleta, it was reasonable to conclude that the cases were connected. And it was reasonable to conclude that they were not connected. However, only one interpretation is the correct one. And depending on which interpretation is correct, so goes the investigation. If one concludes that there is a connection between the VR and the EAR, one will tend to be dismissive of any suspects that cannot be connected to the Visalia area. Precious time and resources will be diverted "clearing" all of those suspects that can be connected to the Visalia area.

The problem, of course, is if the VR is not the EAR/ONS, this case will continue to remain unsolved. From a strictly practical viewpoint, it would have been better to assume that the cases are not connected focus on any EAR suspect who has ties to the Sacramento area. The Maggiore case, in that sense, does not alter the investigation as the focus will still be in Sacramento and will not be solved until the EAR is identified.

I have chosen to give greater weight to the EAR's statement "I've never killed before" because I can find no reason to believe that was a lie. All of the EAR's actions prior to 12/30/79 are consistent with that statement. Prior to 12/30/79, none of his actions are consistent with the statement, "I've killed some people".


Response from confidence is the balaclava

How is the case diverted if you suspect EARONS was at one point VR? I dont see anyone official diverting from the ear & ons area of crimes. And actually, that can be a problem. What if there is some DNA or a item that links to earons in a box of VR evidence? It's not so farfetched, and all I hear is that there are boxes of the VR evidence, but I never hear what has been done with it.

None of the geoprofiling and data mining ever mention Visalia as a viable place to search. You could just as easily say that this is why the case will never be solved, because with all the information about the ear and ons crimes, nothing has proved fruitful in 35 years of looking there for a connection.

Q: Who do you think shot at that kid coming over the fence that night? Whoever it was didnt kill him, but I think you can see he meant to.

I think there are a lot of blind alleys in this case and its wisest to stick to what you know, but I also think you have to understand that this offender is living in two worlds, the real one where he has to wear a mask in society, and the fantasy one where he can be himself and take him in that context. Killing a random person would not be the same as killing someone in his fantasy life, which he is excited about doing as ear, and finally does as ons. Additionally, the psych evals of him stated he wouldnt hesitate to shoot in self defense. In context, I cant rule out that he didnt shoot someone in selfdefense prior to when his ons murders started, but I agree there is no solid proof that he did.

Response from Arch

Q: Who do you think shot at that kid coming over the fence that night? Whoever it was didnt kill him, but I think you can see he meant to.

It is unknown who shot RM. It most likely was the EAR but it is not conclusive that the EAR was responsible and our understanding of the case is skewed by any assumption that it was the EAR (to the exclusion of any other possibility).

If he meant to kill him he would have chased the kid down and shot him like what was done to the Maggiores. Those are the actions of someone who intended to kill. Whoever shot RM meant to discourage him from continuing to chase after the perp. The shooter of RM left the scene with at least 11 rounds still in the magazine. I believe that the Maggiore's killer emptied his gun before running off all over Rancho Cordova.


Response from confidence is the balaclava

If the Maggiores info is true, they confronted him when it was light out and he was unmasked. The kid chase was at night.

Someone who crouches and waits for the person chasing them to appear to shoot up at them close range is shooting with the possibility that it will be fatal. To discourage him from chasing him, he could have turned and shot, but not directly at the kid.

Edit to say: I am not saying either of the shooters were ears. However, the context of the kid's shooting sounds like it may have been ears.


Response from Arch

The Maggiore confrontation took place at 9:00pm. It was February, so it was dark. Shooting someone in the gut as was the case with RM, will most likely not be fatal. Shooting someone in the head, most likely would be fatal. There was a second shot fired but it was after RM had fallen back. I think it was fired through the fence. If RM's shooter and the Maggiore's shooter were one and the same, one would have expected the shooter to not even jump the fence but rather to pursue RM. It didn't happen. RM: maybe the EAR. Maggiores: No way. Danville: Most definitely.


Response from confidence is the balaclava 

The Maggiore confrontation took place at 9:00pm. It was February, so it was dark. Shooting someone in the gut as was the case with RM, will most likely not be fatal. Shooting someone in the head, most likely would be fatal. There was a second shot fired but it was after RM had fallen back. I think it was fired through the fence. If RM's shooter and the Maggiore's shooter were one and the same, one would have expected the shooter to not even jump the fence but rather to pursue RM. It didn't happen. RM: maybe the EAR. Maggiores: No way. Danville: Most definitely.
My bad about the time of night, but there was enough light from the street lamps? for people to make out faces and draw up composites of the attacker/s.

You make sense, but the situations were different enough not to warrant an assassination on the kid, which is what happened with the Maggiores who saw him full-face and confronted him.
I dont think that was ear. But I also do not have a solid on whether shoelaces were found at the scene and whether or not they were tied with a diamond knot. That sounds like a myth.

The person who shot the kid laid in wait:

"“I hear him, Dad,” Bill yelled. “He jumped this fence.” Bill was at the fence before his father had crossed the court. He grabbed the top of the fence and pulled himself up, throwing his leg over the top. He heard the gun being cocked before he saw the dark figure crouched beneath him. He started to fall back when the shot hit him just above the bellybutton, throwing his body backward." ~Sudden Terror, Larry Crompton; p.187.

Unless youve been put straight by an official on this scenario, the shooter shot upward while the kid was moving. Since we dont know how good of a shot he was and the kid was in motion, you cannot say he didnt take the chance that he mightve fatally wounded him.
But this is all moot and I dont think key to finding ears.


Response from Arch

TCITB,

The questions that you raise are important. I could be wrong. So we do have to keep asking the right questions. I think that you are asking the right questions. Perhaps I have been at this too long. But I am convinced, now, more than ever, that the EAR was not responsible for the Snelling or the Maggiore murders. Drifter is able to keep most of this stuff straight. I should have been a straight constructionist from the beginning. But there are so many unknowns and we are almost forced into pure conjecture. Even though my current case theory is still conjecture (or opinion), it is, at least, supported by the fact that there still is no forensic evidence linking either Snelling's case or the Maggiores' to the EAR. It took a while for that to sink in. 8 years in the making.

Response from dengas


No evidence
I still have to wonder just what type of evidence Visalia has? Does anyone on this site know. There were a lot of fingerprints, but were there any crossed-matched between the various ransackings? There was a picture several years back of VPD Lampe and numerous boxes of evidence relating VR. I need to double check the article to see if the evidence was from Snelling's case or all of the ransacked cases, I which case,what would they have? Lotion perhaps...


Response from Arch

dengas,

We still do not have the answer to that simple question. I have to believe that if they crossed matched a VR latent fingerprint to the EAR, we would (and should) know about it.

Response from dengas


Fingerprints
So, we're therefi
Do they have fingerprints that cross match in the EAR/ONS cases? Is there a correct term for when I say cross match?


Response from DanCartell

dengas , if you find that picture could you please post it if its possible......


Response from dengas

Sure. I'll look for it in my files tomorrow. I am sure that I still have it.

Response from Smitty2011

Reasonable Conclusions Thread
I asked this question quite some time ago. But we do not have a ballistics match from any of the crimes where a weapon was used ? Of course these criminals were all prolific burglars as well as murders. So stealing weapons would have been easy. This asks the question, could a ballistics match be made to a weapon reported stolen from an EAR or VR crime scene ? Or to a burglary that was reported before the aforementioned homicides ? And I assume that If there was a ballistic match to Snelling, RM, Sanchez, Offerman, etc we would know. So again, how did EAR acquire his weapons ? I don't recall what caliber weapon was used in the ONS crimes, but did it match the others ? Food for thought. And I assume you need the weapon to do a ballistic match to one that had been reported stolen.

Response from Arch
Re: Fingerprints

No cross matches that I am aware of.

Response from Arch

Re: Reasonable Conclusions Thread

No ballistic matches that I am aware of. The gun used to murder Prof. Snelling was matched to a firearm stolen during a Ransacker burglary. But no ballistic matches to any EAR/ONS crime.

Response from Vminor

perhaps both of EAR's statements were true...

"I've never killed before" (doing this)

"I've killed some people" (in war or unintentionally - outside of doing this)

To him, maybe it doesnt count towards the former if it was for self-defense or self-preservation.

Consindering his confirmed progression, in both statements I look at it more as psyching himself up for the kill. Talking to himself more than talking to the victim (with added satisfaction of instilling fear in his victim).

He clearly didn't fear the law or the reprecussions of taking it to the next level. At that point I think he understood he would go away for a damn long time if caught anyway. I think to EAR, killing, in that situation, was more of a goal than a risk.

Response from Arch

Vminor,

perhaps both of EAR's statements were true...

Maybe. But the VR stood in the Snelling house and WAITED for Prof. Snelling to come to him. He didn't back off or was chased into the backyard. He waited and then shot Prof. Snelling in cold blood. That was an intentional act of homicide that was neither for self-defense or self-preservation, IMO. And then he attempted to shoot Det. McGowen. So maybe the VR was not the EAR.

Consindering his confirmed progression, in both statements I look at it more as psyching himself up for the kill. Talking to himself more than talking to the victim (with added satisfaction of instilling fear in his victim).

The VR didn't need "psyching up" to murder Prof. Snelling in his own home while attempting to kidnap his daughter. He also didn't need "psyching up" to shoot at Det. McGowen. If the EAR was either RM's shooter or the murderer of the Maggiores, he didn't need "psyching up". That is my point. At attack #3, he had a firearm but did not use it (or even threaten to use it) when the mother resisted. There were other times when the male victims knocked over the dishes on their backs trying to untie themselves. The EAR just replaced the dishes. And of course, the EAR messed his pants in Danville and was allowed to slither back under his rock. That is inconsistent with either the VR or the Maggiore's killer.

He clearly didn't fear the law or the reprecussions of taking it to the next level. At that point I think he understood he would go away for a damn long time if caught anyway. I think to EAR, killing, in that situation, was more of a goal than a risk.

The VR took it to the next level with Prof. Snelling. Then he took it to the next level with Det. McGowen. Whoever murdered the Maggiores took it to the next level. The EAR did not take it to the next level until 12/30/79. He shot wildly at Dr. Offerman, as if surprised and frightened.

So again, it is reasonable to come to either conclusion. I am concluding that the VR was not the EAR/ONS. I have already come to the conclusion that the EAR was not responsible for the Maggiores' murder.

Response from Sandia

Hi Arch, I have a question about your statement that "the VR stood in the Snelling house and waited for Prof. Snelling to come to him." I had always heard, and I don't recall where I heard it, that the VR was in the back yard with Beth when the Professor appeared at the back door and the VR turned around and shot at him. Can you clarify?

My two cents on the conflicting statements: At first I was thinking EAR simply is a liar. Police catch criminals when they are being interrogated when they change their story. A truth teller always has the same version. A liar can't recall what they said before and are inconsistent.

BUT!! the more I think of his m.o., he did seem to lie with a purpose: in the book on one of the early Rancho Cordova crimes, he told a victim he lived down the street. Always trying to misdirect. I'll bet he gleefully thought that the police would be wasting a lot of time checking out crimes in Bakersfield.


Response from Arch

Sandia,

Sorry for my garbled typing. The VR was standing at the gate leading to the carport on the side of the house when he shot Prof. Snelling who was exiting the backdoor of the house into the backyard. The VR shot him once, and then shot him again. Prof. Snelling then stumbled back into the house. Prof. Snelling's murder was unimaginably horrific and traumatic beyond description. I do not think that it serves anyone's purpose to assume that the EAR committed this murder without any forensic evidence supporting that. This is true of the Maggiore murders as well. I think the Snelling family as well as the Maggiores are being short-changed by all of this speculation.

Response from Arch

Sandia,

This is the key to understanding the two statements. The embellishments to the "I killed some people" underlie the falseness of this statement. I reads like any other of his manipulative lies. Being that he used this statement (and I think it was the only time) while accosting his first couple, one can understand the psychology of him using the statement in order to ensure compliance. He was nervous. It was the first time with a male present. He was unsure of himself. However, if he was the VR, he would not need to embellish that statement to make it "seem" true. He would just tell them, "lay still. I've killed before and I'll have no problem killing you unless you do exactly what I tell you to do".

When he had the opportunity to clarify and restate that he "killed some people" during his rant about "those pigs", he instead said, "I've never killed before". He's saying that while trying to convince the police that he will kill if he sees any news of the latest attack. (Which, thankfully, he didn't do despite there being news coverage).

Isn't telling the police that you've killed before the best way to convince them that you will kill your next two victims? (If it was true). Did the EAR (in this fantasy scenario) think that by concealing the fact that he murdered Prof. Snelling, the police would be less motivated to catch him? He just threatened to kill his next two victims. It does not get any more serious than that. Does not add up unless the EAR was being truthful about never killing anyone. And there is nothing in the EAR's actions that suggest that he did prior to 12/30/79. Thought about it: yes. Actually did it: no.


Response from confidence is the balaclava 

"Isn't telling the police that you've killed before the best way to convince them that you will kill your next two victims?"

No; but it is a surefire way to get them to see if you might be connected to other murders, and if he did kill Snelling or Maggiore, then he has something to lose if they have something from those crimes that link him to the rapes.

The police played it pretty casual, too. I wonder if he didnt actually say twice to thehusband and wife the same thing: tell LE not to play the story, and LE changed it to, We got two messages from the victims, so they use it as an excuse to go ahead with the store. As it was, they did it again when ear clarified himself in the next attack, and he didnt kill, but it must have made him feel smaller and maybe increased his aggressiveness.