Eleventh Set

[Drifter]

Contra Costa Times Article

For those of you interested in reading the entire article in which a witness most likely saw the EAR in her backyard without a ski mask on, you can read it here:

www.jjmcgr.org/BK/Clippings/781210.pdf

Or click on these pics:

CCT Article #1

























CCT Article #2

























CCT Article #3

























CCT Article #4
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By Archangel76
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2 years ago
2159 Posts

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Re: Contra Costa Times Article

Arch, why didn't police get a a sketch artist out there to the woman's house to get a composite of the man she saw in her backyard?
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Edited by catch_him, 2 years ago
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By catch_him
Member
2 years ago
214 Posts
Mr. Tank Tops

Gringalinda has pointed out that the incident reported was a rather clumsy attempt. Would EAR be that obvious? It also makes me wonder about the FDLE's assessment that ONS would fit into a middle class neighborhood without being noticed. What male in middle class neighborhoods wears tank tops? There is a reason this rather questionable attire is also called a "wife beater". I can't recall any males I knew EVER wearing tank tops. So a red and blue striped tank top in 1978 says "Denny Terrio/Dance Fever" or "Stanley Kowalski howling for Stella". I will go as far to say that a guy in a tank top in a middle class neighborhood is about as obvious as a social worker in Cabrini Green.

I also think, that after this very public airing of the perveived lack of response by LE, that the police chief most likely sent someone out to speak to the tank top spotter. Are we certain there wasn't a comp done?
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Edited by PortofLeith, 2 years ago
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By PortofLeith
Member
2 years ago
953 Posts
Re: Contra Costa Times Article
Thanks for posting the whole article. Very interesting. In the other thread, Arch said he never hit again in San Ramon after this lady spotted him, but in the article it seems to indicate he was back a week later. The neighbor said a trip wire was triggered and this Mrs. Appel said she found a footprint, etc.
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By gringalinda69
Member
2 years ago
32 Posts
Re: Re: Contra Costa Times Article
Posted By: catch_him

Arch, why didn't police get a a sketch artist out there to the woman's house to get a composite of the man she saw in her backyard?

Because they assumed the witness saw the teenager in the neighborhood, the same mindset that assumed the driver of the Oldsmobile was a narcotics trafficker. I am seeing a pattern here. It is not law enforcement's job to assume anything. It is their job to investigate and determine factually whether someone was or was not involved.

The reason that we do not know who Mr. Tank Top was is because they did not properly investigate that incident. The reason we do not know who the driver of the Oldsmobile was is because that incident was not properly investigated. The reason the case is not solved is because when it mattered most, assumptions were made and the incidents were not properly investigated. Same with the "kitten man".

The EAR investigation was flawed because of assumptions. The Goleta investigation was flawed because of assumptions. The Ventura investigation was flawed because of assumptions. The Irvine investigations were flawed because of assumptions.

See the pattern? 35 years later no one knows who the Oldsmobile driver was. 33 years later, no one knows who the runner was on the Sacramento levee or who the shooter of the Maggiore's was. 32 years later, no one knows who shot Drs Offerman and Manning. It wasn't Glasby as was assumed. 31 years later no one knows who bludgeoned Lyman and Charlene Smith. It wasn't Alsip as was assumed. 30 years later, no one knows who murdered Manuela Witthuhn. It wasn't her husband, David as was assumed (despite what was said publicly about him not being a suspect. he had to provide DNA years later to exonerate himself as did Alsip). 25 years later, no one knows who raped and murdered Janelle Cruz. I guess the assumption is that it wasn't the "kitten man" or the Marine she was recently dating before she was killed. Why bother looking for these guys? They didn't have anything to do with it... even though we don't even know who these guys are. That is deadly circular reasoning.

Investigator assumptions are the reason the case is unsolved and so long as they assume, the case will never be solved. You cannot assume anything with the EAR/ONS.
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Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts
Mr. Tank Top

What male in middle class neighborhoods wears tank tops?

Port,

A conceited male who is proud of his physique and wants to show it off. And if it was the EAR, it shows that he was not from around the neighborhood and didn't realize he was standing out like a sore thumb. That makes it less likely that Mr. Tank Top was from San Ramon. He would have been right at home in some parts of Rancho Cordova, including the Cordova Meadows area.
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Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts
Thought this was an interesting comment I heard

How can you be extremly muscular at 5'10 and 160 pounds
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By MovieMan
Member
2 years ago
297 Posts
Muscular

He could appear to be well muscled (at 160lbs average height) if he had a low body fat.


Low body fat creates the illusion of muscle - a 160lb guy with 5% bodyfat will look extremely muscular to the average (non weight trained) man or woman.

Look at someone like a young Jean Claude Van Damme (average height, probably around 160lbs but very lean) who was known as the 'Muscles from Brussels' and would be considered muscular by most people.

In everyday clothes, a lean 5'10" 160lber will not appear particularly muscular at all, but in a tank top/wife beater the same guy will look pretty muscular.

Also remember that in the 70s not so many people lifted weights, so the standard for looking 'muscular' was perhaps somewhat lower than it is today.
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Edited by SammyT, 2 years ago
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By SammyT
Member
2 years ago
433 Posts
Refreshing
Am I the only one who found reading the CC Time story kind of refreshing. The reporters actually went out and did some reporting. Interviewed people and reported what they said. Including comments from people critical of the police response to the Mr. Tank Top incident.
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By f1guyus
Member
2 years ago
1265 Posts

[Drifter]

Cordova Park Sub-Division

All of the EAR Rancho Cordova attacks occurred in a subdivision referred to (on Google Maps) as Cordova Park. I have used the term "Cordova Meadows", C1521 has referred to it as "Cordova Gardens". It is actually somewhere in the middle of the two subdivisions. Until looking at the Google Map, I have never heard of that area referred to as "Cordova Park". But moving forward, so that there is no confusion, I will start referring to the EAR Rancho Cordova "cluster" as "Cordova Park" so that it is consistent with anyone who looks for the area on Google Maps.

This area is very significant to the case (as C1521 pointed out). ALL (except for one) of the Rancho Cordova incidents including the 1974 dog beating as well as the 1973 bizarre burglary occurred in this area. The Maggiore murders occurred on the very edge of the area and the gunman fled to the area and disappeared. Law enforcement investigators (if they have not done so already) should pull every burglary/peeper/prowler report that occurred in this area between 1972 and 1979. If the EAR was ever arrested (prior to becoming the EAR), it most likely would have occurred here. Not in Visalia.

RC Comfort Zone
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Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76
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2 years ago
2159 Posts

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Cordova Park
Good move Arch. Few people on the Board have actually been to the various crime scenes. If people were to actually see on a map where these crimes occurred and the time span in which they occurred I think it would finally end the debate as to where offender came from. There is no other place where such a narrow and sustained cluster of crimes occurred.
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By conquistador1521
Member
2 years ago
388 Posts
Re: Cordova Park
Posted By: conquistador1521
Good move Arch. Few people on the Board have actually been to the various crime scenes. If people were to actually see on a map where these crimes occurred and the time span in which they occurred I think it would finally end the debate as to where offender came from. There is no other place where such a narrow and sustained cluster of crimes occurred.
Conquistador, The 4 murder victims, 2 attack victims and numerous burglary victims in Goleta might disagree that Cordova Park represents the most narrow and sustained cluster of crimes. All of the Goleta crimes are within just a few blocks of each other.
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By PortofLeith
Member
2 years ago
953 Posts
Possibility Is
I've looked at a map of the attacks and they are closely bunched. Not only that but within RC there are bunches. If EAR was an older (late 20's) perp with military experience it's not too hard for me to think he lived outside RC, came in and farmiliarized himself very quickly with the area. Or I.D.'ed a potential victim and then did the recce, during which time he found other possible victims.
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By f1guyus
Member
2 years ago
1265 Posts
rc military?
interesting point.i dont remember everything in sudden terror but in one chapter a victim did have a moment with a strange character on base on her way to the lavatory.was it mather or one more north west?for me this guy was deffo accomplished(late 20s)but was he military?i am very 50 50 at the mo.anyone else think he was military?surley the odds say he was??
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By metalhalide
Member
2 years ago
194 Posts
@port

The crimes in Goleta spanned from October 1979 - July 1981. This period is less than 2 years. At the time of his ONS crimes he would have been at the height of his sophistication. I do not believe that investigating this angle will yield any significant information. As far as I know LE got almost nothing canvassing the neighborhoods in question. Also to be fair LE has put the vast majority of their resources on focusing on the murders since all the crimes were linked in 2001. I do not believe the offender lived or worked in Goleta.


I believed that the focus should go to Rancho Cordova. We can probably trace this guy activities there from 1973-1979. a six year period. EAR had no way of knowing these early crimes would have gotten much scrutiny. He was most likely a teenager or just out of HS when he started his criminal mischief and probably did not attack that far from home. When EAR arrived in Goleta he was already a sophisticated criminal and would have been smart enough to put some distance between himself and his crimes.
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Edited by conquistador1521, 2 years ago
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By conquistador1521
Member
2 years ago
388 Posts
Cordova etc
Ill chime in. I try to look at the facts and make a rational Hypothesis based on my interpretation of the info. I have analyzed this case for only a few years. My first conclusion was that the first few crimes will yield some info to help track this person down. My initial thoughts on age, was that the EAR was older. But after further data analysis I don't think he was any older than 22 when he started attacking people. Was he military ? Maybe. Again this was Vietnam era and you were likely to be drafted, unless of course you were a college student. another key ingredient is why did he become a rapist ? And not just a rapist, but someone who wanted to terrorize and control people. Did he serve in Vietnam and love the power and control he felt as a soldier ? Of course that would only be one reason of many that drove this criminal to do what he did. His first few attacks were against teenagers. He probably felt they would be easier to control. This shows forethought and planning. Maybe he did drive in from somewhere else, but that doesn't fit the MO in my opinion. He planned his crimes, but still needed some level of comfort, that being, working close to home.
Goleta- I have never been able to quite comprehend why he brought a dog with him. Really? Unless you are using the cover of, I am out walking my dog. Why else ? So add that element in the RC search. Someone who owned a dog. And if you are taking a dog with you to a murder scene, I bet you you feel pretty confident this animal is vey well trained. I have had several dogs and no matter how hard I try, they still like to bark. Still one of the most bizarre aspects of this case. But it would lead me to think in Goleta, he lived close. But I can't say that with the same confidence that I feel about RC area.
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By Smitty2011
Member
2 years ago
107 Posts
Cordova etc....
Good post Smitty...great insight...I also think that EARs early endeavours may have left some sort of criminal track record...I don't think he was military,but may have had some military experience via his Father or some close relative. As far as becoming a rapist...I think EAR was probably exhibiting some paraphilic, sadomasochism before arousing L.E. and demanding their full attention..I mean afterall he was young once with all these funky feelings and no experience on how to handle them....he had to have made some mistakes early on..surely somebody took notice...
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By JWBTXS
Member
2 years ago
337 Posts

[Drifter]

The Cheri Domingo/Greg Sanchez connection

Regarding the recent confirmation that the Domingo/Sanchez murders were the EAR apparently semen stains found in the evidence....Can anyone tell me did EAR rape Cheri ? If he didnt then how did his semen end up were it was found?
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By DanCartell
Member
2 years ago
683 Posts

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Maybe

police are holding back on whether it was like the Offerman/Manning crime scene where Offerman's body position suggested he had been sodomized.

Or perhaps EAR masturbated afterwards on the bed. It would be in his character.
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By AlexA
Member
2 years ago
46 Posts
Ear and Semen

Dan- I hate to be too graphic, but Ear could not really consistently perform missionary style. He liked to straddle the women while they were tied up face down while he masturbated into the palms of their bound hands. Sometimes that took him to another level, but i think it could be a safe assumption that he sometimes ejaculated wherever he could, e.g. their backs, bedding, etc. I sometimes wonder if his lengthy wandering around didn't involve masturbation to help achieve erection. For a twenty something year old guy, I wouldn't exactly characterize him as sexually normal.
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Edited by PortofLeith, 2 years ago
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By PortofLeith
Member
2 years ago
954 Posts
Re: Ear and Semen
Posted By: PortofLeith

Dan- I hate to be too graphic, but Ear could not really consistently perform missionary style. He liked to straddle the women while they were tied up face down while he masturbated into the palms of their bound hands. Sometimes that took him to another level, but i think it could be a safe assumption that he sometimes ejaculated wherever he could, e.g. their backs, bedding, etc. I sometimes wonder if his lengthy wandering around didn't involve masturbation to help achieve erection. For a twenty something year old guy, I wouldn't exactly characterize him as sexually normal.
Thanks for that piece of Info , you also also answered something I had been wondering about ,how he performed the rapes since victims were tied up.
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By DanCartell
Member
2 years ago
683 Posts
Re: Maybe
Posted By: AlexA

police are holding back on whether it was like the Offerman/Manning crime scene where Offerman's body position suggested he had been sodomized.

Or perhaps EAR masturbated afterwards on the bed. It would be in his character.

You are right , its possible he did. Theres probably some details that they (the police) are holding back because looking through the murders , he apparently did not rape the woman in the Offerman/Manning case and the Domingo/Sanchez case ; did something happen?
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Edited by DanCartell, 2 years ago
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By DanCartell
Member
2 years ago
683 Posts
Of course

What Port wrote is true, but he also raped them traditionally too, cutting their leg ties, retying them, etc.

It's just really sad all around that there are people like this out there.
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By AlexA
Member
2 years ago
46 Posts
Re: Ear and Semen
Posted By: PortofLeith

Dan- I hate to be too graphic, but Ear could not really consistently perform missionary style. He liked to straddle the women while they were tied up face down while he masturbated into the palms of their bound hands. Sometimes that took him to another level, but i think it could be a safe assumption that he sometimes ejaculated wherever he could, e.g. their backs, bedding, etc. I sometimes wonder if his lengthy wandering around didn't involve masturbation to help achieve erection. For a twenty something year old guy, I wouldn't exactly characterize him as sexually normal.
This sounds very much like a BDSM or a fetish guy. Although, the Doctor in "Sudden Terror" did not say that it appears EAR/ONS was into BDSM. Everything about this guy sounds to me like he lived in a BDSM fantasy world.
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By Peterlee
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2 years ago
319 Posts
I disagree

Sorry to keep disagreeing with you Peterlee, but I don't think that EAR-ONS had any particular interest in BDSM.


From reading 'Sudden Terror', I get the impression that EAR-ONS was tying his victims to keep them secure and prevent the risk of escape/being overpowered, rather than for any sexual 'kick'.

In other words, IMHO the tying up was for practical rather than fetishistic reasons.

In response to PortOfLeith's comments about EAR-ONS wandering about to masturbate/achieve erection, I have to agree, and have thought that perhaps chronic masturbation was a cause of EAR's difficulty in achieving erections (ie. he masturbated and ejaculated numerous times daily and had problems 'reloading' so to speak).

EAR-ONS strikes me as someone who had a well-developed (although of course extremely warped) and secretive fantasy life, which did not just appear overnight.

He would IMHO have developed these secret fantasies through the solitary act of masturbation before eventually making his fantasies a sick reality.

This is also evident in the somewhat scripted nature of the rapes (and may also be a reason for the performance issues).

Perhaps EAR was following a routine of how he wanted his fantasy to develop - when there was deviation from how he wanted things to proceed, then it threw him, he became nervous, couldn't perform etc.

The wandering around could also have been EAR-ONS' way of constantly scouting/checking the property whilst commiting his attacks - probably something which annoyed him (much like the knot tying IMHO) yet something he had to do to reduce the risk of being caught.
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Edited by SammyT, 2 years ago
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By SammyT
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2 years ago
433 Posts
Re:

Good post SammyT.

Tying the victims up served a practical purpose to be sure but I also think it was a part of his twisted fantasy (it seems making people helpless was a turn on for him). I don't think the two have to be mutually exclusive.

Did he have an interest in BDSM outside of his crimes? I don't know. For some reason I don't think so though I believe I have read or heard a profiler state she believes he would be into that in his personal life. As Sammyt said, I think his fantasy life would be secretive and would have developed over time. I don't think any significant other would be exposed to it.

There is one instance Crompton describes in his book where once he realizes he has the wrong girl he calls it off. I cannot cite it specifically right now.

One of the reasons why I do not find it impossible to believe he stopped is the scripted nature of the whole thing. For some reason, I think that if he was unable for some reason to fulfill one of the aspects of his fantasy (i.e. some type of physical injury, unable to go out at night for extended periods of time due to a family, etc.) he might stop due to it not being satisfying without all the elements. I know the general consensus is that these types of offenders can't stop but we do know they can at least be dormant for very long periods (having said that, there might some other victims of the ONS we are not aware of though I doubt it is a huge number).

NOTE: I got a D in psychology so take that theory for what it's worth.

OFF TOPIC KIND OF: In the E special on EAR/ONS, a relative of Janelle's (her mother?) says he hit her in the back of the head when she was walking away from him. This always struck me as odd. Was she fleeing him or did he actually let her loose? You get the impression the other murder victims (with the exception of Sanchez who had been shot) were bludgeoned while tied up. I'm not sure why but that stuck out for me.

HJ2
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Edited by hubertj2, 2 years ago
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By hubertj2
Member
2 years ago
120 Posts
Re: The Cheri Domingo/Greg Sanchez connection
@ huberti: C'mon man a "D', lol. Your better than that!

EAR is creating a situation in order to achieve a certain response from himself. I am unsure about any specific scientific research on this matter; however, he is manipulating the situation to his desire. I do know about the Person X Situation Interaction which helps explain some behaviors.
I would agree that in life he would manipulate situations to his benefit and continue to do so with the following: Prostitutes, girlfriends outside of his normal relationship, and strangers that he has stalked.
I do wonder about his specific sex acts and how they correlate to his person factors. .
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By waterfrogger
Member
2 years ago
123 Posts
@ hubertj2
About why Sanchez was shot while the others were not- I suspect maybe something happened during the crime for example maybe he attempted to untie the binds or escape and he was shot.If you look at suspected EAR crimes were he discharged a gun its always when he was not in control e.g. being confronted , since some details are always held back in such cases , that would be my best guess from the currently available info.
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By DanCartell
Member
2 years ago
683 Posts
Re: The Cheri Domingo/Greg Sanchez connection
Posted By: DanCartell
About why Sanchez was shot while the others were not- I suspect maybe something happened during the crime for example maybe he attempted to untie the binds or escape and he was shot.If you look at suspected EAR crimes were he discharged a gun its always when he was not in control e.g. being confronted , since some details are always held back in such cases , that would be my best guess from the currently available info.
Offerman and Manning were also both shot. Other victims were not shot because they complied. Those who were shot resisted.
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By lawstudent1
Member
2 years ago
316 Posts
Re: Re:
Posted By: hubertj2

Good post SammyT.

Tying the victims up served a practical purpose to be sure but I also think it was a part of his twisted fantasy (it seems making people helpless was a turn on for him). I don't think the two have to be mutually exclusive.

Did he have an interest in BDSM outside of his crimes? I don't know. For some reason I don't think so though I believe I have read or heard a profiler state she believes he would be into that in his personal life. As Sammyt said, I think his fantasy life would be secretive and would have developed over time. I don't think any significant other would be exposed to it.

There is one instance Crompton describes in his book where once he realizes he has the wrong girl he calls it off. I cannot cite it specifically right now.

One of the reasons why I do not find it impossible to believe he stopped is the scripted nature of the whole thing. For some reason, I think that if he was unable for some reason to fulfill one of the aspects of his fantasy (i.e. some type of physical injury, unable to go out at night for extended periods of time due to a family, etc.) he might stop due to it not being satisfying without all the elements. I know the general consensus is that these types of offenders can't stop but we do know they can at least be dormant for very long periods (having said that, there might some other victims of the ONS we are not aware of though I doubt it is a huge number).

NOTE: I got a D in psychology so take that theory for what it's worth.

OFF TOPIC KIND OF: In the E special on EAR/ONS, a relative of Janelle's (her mother?) says he hit her in the back of the head when she was walking away from him. This always struck me as odd. Was she fleeing him or did he actually let her loose? You get the impression the other murder victims (with the exception of Sanchez who had been shot) were bludgeoned while tied up. I'm not sure why but that stuck out for me.

HJ2
Great post HJ2,
I have also thought extensively about whether he was into BDSM. When I first read D'Ambrosia's FDLE profile, I thought that inference was a little too hasty and presumptuous. But then I thought, she's the profiler, not me. I then read an article about her alluding that this was one of her first profiles and was conducted with the supervision of another profiler from the L.A. County Sherriff's Dept. However, I agree that it probably served as function and fantasy. He got off on dominating his victims and instilling fear into them and making them submit to him. I have also read profilers mention that it is common for these offenders to act out a script - b/c they are essentially acting out their fantasy. However, you got me thinking... what if he had already "fulfilled" his fantasy and moved on to a new type of fantasy? Funny you mention the statement made by Janelle's mother. I have brought that up on the board in the past as it caught my attention as well. Based off that statement, I thought at first maybe she knew him and let him in; but now I think he crept in and hit her from behind as she was walking down the hall or something. But I also remember reading somewhere that blood was found in the kitchen (on the cabinets I think). I have always assumed that he hit her first from behind then took her body into the room and sexually assaulted her and bludgeoned her again b/c of her facial injuries. Or maybe it was the other way around. Either way, somehow he got her under compliance (whether this was from the blow to the back of the head or by some other means). I'm wondering if Janelle tried to run to the kitchen to get a knife or if the her blood was on ONS's hands that got on the cabinets if he ate in the kitchen like he has done in the past. I don't know. But I wish I was familiar with the layout of the house. The sequence of the events regarding this attack have always perplexed me.
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By lawstudent1
Member
2 years ago
316 Posts
Things the Police Said
A lot of things the police said at the time were trying to make EAR make a mistake. Say something or do something that would give him away. And as I've opined before the issues were control and nose thumbing. "I can eat your food, drink your beer, rape you and get away with it" There's an element of this in every violent crime. Ask any long time cop.
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By f1guyus
Member
2 years ago
1270 Posts
And he did get away with it

So sad.
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By AlexA
Member
2 years ago
46 Posts

Quick Reply

[Drifter]

The Sacramento town hall meeting

During the early days of the EAR rapes , there was a town hall meeting were a man said something like he would not lay there while his wife was being raped and that man and his wife were attacked by the EAR not too long after that meeting, I thought maybe EAR was at that meeting . I was wondering maybe there are pictures that were taken of the people in that meeting or there was TV footage- if there is its possible the EAR may be there. Was this looked into by the detectives?
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By DanCartell
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2 years ago
683 Posts

« Previous 1 2 3
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Re: Sacramento Bee
Posted By: Archangel76

The Sacramento Bee sold their archives. You're going to have to contact whoever owns the archive now. Call the Bee and get the name of whoever now owns the archive and have fun trying to identify the EAR from a town hall meeting that he, in all likelihood, did not attend.
What makes you think he didn't attend?
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By catch_him
Member
2 years ago
214 Posts
Re: Re: Sacramento Bee
Posted By: catch_him
Posted By: Archangel76

The Sacramento Bee sold their archives. You're going to have to contact whoever owns the archive now. Call the Bee and get the name of whoever now owns the archive and have fun trying to identify the EAR from a town hall meeting that he, in all likelihood, did not attend.
What makes you think he didn't attend?
Because he had to have known that the SCSD was looking for him to show up. The SCSD were already aware of the couple who attended the town hall meeting in 1976 that he was believed to have attended. And the EAR knew that the SCSD knew and he knew that they would be looking for him. There is no way that he would attend that meeting nor the one in Foothill Jr High nor the one in Davis.
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts
Re: Re: Re: Sacramento Bee
Posted By: Archangel76
Posted By: catch_him
Posted By: Archangel76

The Sacramento Bee sold their archives. You're going to have to contact whoever owns the archive now. Call the Bee and get the name of whoever now owns the archive and have fun trying to identify the EAR from a town hall meeting that he, in all likelihood, did not attend.
What makes you think he didn't attend?
Because he had to have known that the SCSD was looking for him to show up. The SCSD were already aware of the couple who attended the town hall meeting in 1976 that he was believed to have attended. And the EAR knew that the SCSD knew and he knew that they would be looking for him. There is no way that he would attend that meeting nor the one in Foothill Jr High nor the one in Davis.
wasn't a man attacked after speaking up at a townhall meeting? coincidence?
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By catch_him
Member
2 years ago
214 Posts
Townhall Meeting
I agree with Arch. There is no way he would have been at the second town hall meeting. It would be a waste of time to focus any energy on that angle.
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By conquistador1521
Member
2 years ago
388 Posts
Re: Townhall Meeting
Posted By: conquistador1521
I agree with Arch. There is no way he would have been at the second town hall meeting. It would be a waste of time to focus any energy on that angle.
what about the first town hall meeting?
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By catch_him
Member
2 years ago
214 Posts
there were no pictures taken
of the first town hall meeting or whichever one it was that the EAR attended.
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By Troy_McClure
Member
2 years ago
36 Posts
Re: Re: Townhall Meeting
Posted By: catch_him
Posted By: conquistador1521
I agree with Arch. There is no way he would have been at the second town hall meeting. It would be a waste of time to focus any energy on that angle.
what about the first town hall meeting?
CH,

You're confusing townhall meetings. There were 4 initial meetings in 1976. Two in Rancho Cordova and two in Carmichael. It is believed that the EAR attended the 1st or 2nd meeting in Carmichael. The couple that was later attacked attended the Carmichael meeting. There is no dispute that the EAR also attended that meeting. This was right before the EAR case received any attention in the press so it is understandable why he would feel safe attending that meeting. Most people in Sacramento didn't even know there was a serial rapist on the loose.

The Mira Loma meeting, where the photographs were taken occurred in November of 1977 nearly a year later. Everyone in Sacramento is now aware of the EAR. He would have known by then that the SCSD would be expecting him to show up and hence, he would not walk into their trap.
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts
Re: The Sacramento town hall meeting
I only knew of one townhall meeting. Thanks for updating me on this. Why weren't ids checked at the first two meetings?
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By catch_him
Member
2 years ago
214 Posts
How were the first two meetings advertised?
How would people find out about these meetings? How did EAR/ONS find out. T.V. news?, newspaper articles? Flyers handed out?
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By Sandia
Member
2 years ago
1382 Posts
Re: Re: The Sacramento town hall meeting
Posted By: catch_him
I only knew of one townhall meeting. Thanks for updating me on this. Why weren't ids checked at the first two meetings?
Del Dayo is an affluent area of Sacramento. Attendees would have been highly insulted.
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts
Re: How were the first two meetings advertised?
Posted By: Sandia
How would people find out about these meetings? How did EAR/ONS find out. T.V. news?, newspaper articles? Flyers handed out?

I don't know for certain. The first meeting was a regular Parent's Club Meeting that occurred on Nov. 3rd, 1976. A second meeting was held that same week but i do not know when that occurred. It was not advertised in the newspaper. So, I imagine it was through a mailer and word-of-mouth, and maybe a flyer. (Which is an indication the EAR either lived in the area OR had some connection to the SCSD. The topic to be discussed was "Crime Prevention". The rumors of a serial rapist had been circulating through the neighborhoods in Rancho Cordova and Carmichael. 500 persons attended the first meeting.

The first meeting is mentioned in this article published 11/4/76:

www.jjmcgr.org/BK/Clippings/761104.pdf

The first 4 meetings are mentioned in this article published 11/10/76:

www.jjmcgr.org/BK/Clippings/761110.pdf
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Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts
Re: The Sacramento town hall meeting
the picture of the men looks alot like the composite sketches and VR and u cant say for 100 % sure that he wasnt at the sacramento meeting too!
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By ons
Member
2 years ago
47 Posts

[Drifter]

What can we extrapolate about EAR from the case of Richard Ramirez?

Given that we know very little details about EAR as a person compared to his crimes & Seeing as we are all trying to figure out details about EAR such as were he may have lived ,worked,is he married etc. It got me wondering since Ted Bundy was asked to provide insight into the green river killer........I couldnt help but wonder: since one serial killer can be used to try and figure out another unknown serial killer - could we apply the same logic to EAR/ONS by trying to figure him out from a known serial killer who displayed vaguely similar MO? The night stalker Richard Ramirez comes to my mind as certain details about Ramirez`s crimes share parallels to EAR hence my question :what can we conclude about EAR from what we know about Ramirez?
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Edited by DanCartell, 2 years ago
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By DanCartell
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2 years ago
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Re: Re: What can we extrapolate about EAR from the case of Richard Ramirez?
Posted By: EARTH
WHY IS THE EARONS STILL NOT ARRESTED THE GD DAMN POLICE EVEN HAVE HIS DNA I CANT BELIEVE IT! HURRY UP!

EARTH, I sense some frustration. Yes the police have the EAR DNA but can't put a name to it. That's my frustration. I don't think EAR is a Chimera. If you have any clues I would be happy to meet with you. I have a good place where the Dream is parked.
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Edited by LFL, 1 year ago
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By LFL
Member
1 year ago
37 Posts
Re: What can we extrapolate about EAR from the case of Richard Ramirez?

The following scenarios are fictitious accounts. They are used to show the difference between a M.O. and a signature aspect.




dengas....i guess it is what it says..maybe the authors knew stuff about the ear crimes and just used the info for their manual.
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Edited by fumanchuc, 1 year ago
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By fumanchuc
Member
1 year ago
141 Posts
Re: Re: What can we extrapolate about EAR from the case of Richard Ramirez?
Posted By: fumanchuc

The following scenarios are fictitious accounts. They are used to show the difference between a M.O. and a signature aspect.




dengas....i guess it is what it says..maybe the authors knew stuff about the ear crimes and just used the info for their manual.
Thank you for clarifying. I want to read the full manual now.
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By dengas
Member
1 year ago
966 Posts
i found this....but my computer (i think)..wont let me read it...maybe it will work for you..

books.google.co.uk/books?id=Il2lksVFS9oC&pg=PT2&lpg=PT2&dq=modus+operandi+and+the+signature+aspects+of+violent+crime+douglas&source=bl&ots=DFxA-vnHrZ&sig=S427v6id8RcCT_MgMawzN6oDCik&hl=en&sa=X&ei=E5MmT4nYBomk8gP56dDPBw&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=modus%20operandi%20and%20the%20signature%20aspects%20of%20violent%20crime%20douglas&f=false
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Edited by fumanchuc, 1 year ago
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By fumanchuc
Member
1 year ago
141 Posts
Re: What can we extrapolate about EAR from the case of Richard Ramirez?

heres the manual in book form



www.josseybass.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0787985015,descCd-tableOfContents.html





and heres the book on rs



www.amazon.com/Unfinished-Murder-Capture-Serial-Rapist/dp/0743460553


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Edited by fumanchuc, 1 year ago
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By fumanchuc
Member
1 year ago
141 Posts
Re: ronnie shelton the westside rapist..
Posted By: fumanchuc

www.bloggersbase.com/criminology/ronnie-shelton-the-rapist/

food for thought.

why cant i access this anymore...and why have two of my post's been deleted..when this link was live i found posters on there who claimed to know shelton..one in particular said shelton hung out in denver in the early 80's..and i posted anon..if anyone knew if shelton grew up or hung about or worked in california and i was waiting for an answer..
i mean two of my post's have mysteriously dissapered..
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Edited by fumanchuc, 1 year ago
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By fumanchuc
Member
1 year ago
141 Posts
Re: Re: ronnie shelton the westside rapist..
Posted By: fumanchuc
Posted By: fumanchuc

www.bloggersbase.com/criminology/ronnie-shelton-the-rapist/

food for thought.

why cant i access this anymore...and why have two of my post's been deleted..when this link was live i found posters on there who claimed to know shelton..one in particular said shelton hung out in denver in the early 80's..and i posted anon..if anyone knew if shelton grew up or hung about or worked in california and i was waiting for an answer..
i mean two of my post's have mysteriously dissapered.

ok i just realised why a couple of my post's have dissapered..2nd question answered. but why cant i get the link up and running?
why dont it exist no more.





sorry about the edits..my wireless keyboard has a mind of its own.
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Edited by fumanchuc, 1 year ago
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By fumanchuc
Member
1 year ago
141 Posts

[Drifter]

Danville Confrontation

If the EAR had killed either Prof. Snelling or the Maggiores, the Danville husband and his wife would have been dead. The husband was in the EAR's face like no other intended victim. (Like Sgt. Maggiore is alleged to have been). The EAR allegedly had no problem chasing Brian and Katie Maggiore down and shooting them because Sgt. Maggiore supposedly confronted him. The Danville confrontation happened after the Maggiore murders and right before the Goleta 1 debacle. Rather than shoot the husband and his wife, the EAR hesitated like he had never been confronted in such a manner previously. He cr@pped himself and was allowed to slither out of the home to go clean himself up.

The EAR allegedly shot Prof. Snelling who confronted him in his own home while the perp was attempting to kidnap his daughter. That is the same scenario in Danville except that the EAR was preparing to rape the wife. Where is this impulsive killer who shot Rod Miller for chasing after him and allegedly shot the Maggiores because Sgt. Maggiore allegedly "confronted" the EAR? It does not add up.

Conversely, when Dr. Offerman "lunged" at the EAR or when Gregory Sanchez confronted the EAR, both were shot. That is because the EAR finally resolved to kill his victims. He had not done so prior to 12/30/79. The resolve probably came because of Danville and Goleta 1. The EAR lost control of both crime scenes. The continuum of violence does not fit any way you slice it if the EAR was either Prof. Snelling's or the Maggiores' killer. 12/30/79 was the EAR's first homicide. I am now certain of that.

From "Sudden Terror":

"Brandon Garnett stirred. A rustling sound near the vanity drew his attention. The light from the moon played across the vanity mirror. The reflection in the mirror brought Garnett to a sitting position. A figure was pulling a dark mask over his head. The man’s dark vinyl jacket was buttoned to his neck and his gloved hands were pulling the mask down, stretching it over his face. White shoelaces dangled from his hands. Garnett sprang from the bed as the figure turned toward him, eyes staring unblinkingly, startled by the charging Garnett. “Who the * do you think you are?” the six foot two, two hundred and twenty pound Garnett yelled. “What the * are you doing here?” The masked man, astonished by the outburst, took a step backward, disorganized by the screaming Garnett. “Who are you?” Garnett continued to yell as he blocked the masked intruder’s exit, allowing Sylvia Garnett to run past the two of them and down the stairs. This was a path they had discussed many times since they had heard about the East Area Rapist. “If you leave now, you can leave,” Garnett continued to yell at the startled, motionless masked intruder. His wife safe, and not knowing if the man had a weapon, Garnett ran past him and down the stairs. “Help. Help.” Sylvia Garnett was yelling as he joined her in the yard."

Does this sound like the same guy who shot Prof. Snelling or the Maggiores with less provocation? Actions speak louder than words. His actions throughout his crime spree from June 18, 1976 through December 29, 1979 indicate that he had not killed until that fateful evening in December of 1979.
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Edited by Archangel76, 5 months ago
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By Archangel76
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5 months ago
2155 Posts

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EAR attack overview
Arch, i think a complete list with all EAR statements is a very good idea! Ich will continue the EAR attack overview from no. 16 to 1st Goleta. Everyone please feel free to correct me in any case or add facts that i forgot.
F1, good observation regarding victims resistance... I will post pt. III of the attack overview when completed..
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By germgrom68
Member
4 months ago
54 Posts
Re: Danville Confrontation

I wish you could tell the lies from the truth, in what he said. But he's a true psychopath, and a very big symptom of that is compulsive lying. That means if you knew him and you asked him a casual harmless question, odds are high that youre going to get a lies told to you. In a planned out attack, what are the chances that he will spontaneously tell the truth? Add to that, that he has multiple scripts including hints to multiple fake identities at the ready.

6/17/76: attack: He was acting out the fantasy of the kind of rapist he wanted to be (before he refined it, for practical reasons). The tapping on the door, the leaping on the subject, the close eye contact, the pantlessness...

7/17/76: He asks for drugs. He has a junkie script to distinguish him from the previous crime.
I hope you are aware that a whole lot of english words are derived from the germanic language. He;s more likely to have western/southern roots in his family than pennsylvania dutch ones.

8/29/76: He didnt have time to shuck and jive, but he went back to his pantless terrorizing rapist. He also hit a home with 3 people in it, not one.

9/4/76: He told her his script included planting that he was in the army and going to Bakersfield.
The other sexually graphic stuff you underlined only proves that he is a sadistic rapist with power control issues. Of course the previous attack where a middleaged woman withstood his attack and he lost control was going to ramp up his sense of powerlessness and anger. Since violence/aggression and anger are fused in his sexual arousal pattern, he was extra angry and violent and extra sexually aroused.

10/5/76: You left out that he called this woman previously to terrorize her by stating he was going to kill her husband, implying he knew him or he was watching them.

10/8/76: He's back to the junkie-rapist script. And this time, he's a local junkie, who lives down the block.

10/17/76: He's a stuttering rapist who is insecure and has a facial deformity.
What are the chances that a man lurking in a neighborhood with a facial deformity would not be spotted? Some of the most believable accounts of people seeing him were in outside light and close up. At the window, close to the window, etc.
He didnt expect the woman to say he was a good lover. I think he lied to her, but the fact that he stopped raping her for that second suggests he wanted to believe she was telling the truth. But all that does is prove he's insecure, which fits to the specific crimes he's committing.

10/18/76: It's been said that he wasnt after her. He dragged her to the neighbor's for a reason, but what would that reason be? To take her into an empty house? Why, if shes not his target. This attack wasnt as late as his usual attacks? Maybe that had somethng to do with him giving up.

11/10/76: These two happened back-to-back? It would have been helpful for Sudden Terror to lay these out chronologically, jesus.
He was a bit spacey in this attack. If he told the truth about anything, it might have been here. He questioned her about if she went to American River College and she knew him. The second part of that statement sounds rehearsed. So does, I have to wait for my parents to get home, paired with his romance bullshit about "taking off in the night." Because guys who live at home with their parents are so romantic.

12/18/77: He only dragged the older teen girls out to the yard, never women, nd not the youngest ones. I think its because he wasnt sure of when anyone else in the family were due back, and outside he could hear the car pull up and sprint.
The reason he didnt with the youngest ones are that he hit some of the with their parents already in the home, and with the set of sisters, I think he was possibly trying to live out a porn fantasy and a big taboo, these might have been more impulsive attacks. Also, the youngest ones were unpredictable an sometimes uruly, because they didnt grasp the seriousness of the situation.

1/19/77: Use of script. Like in all the other attacks.

1/24/77: Icepick was from the home? Doesnt say. But he used the script.

2/7/77: Script. Including beating a resistant subject.

3/8/77: Script.

3/18/77: Script. Im noticing that youve left out a lot of the things he said to the victims, according to Sudden Terror. All the stuff about his motives and his van,etc.
And other things, like him supposedly turning on the fireplace to rape her next to and make her tell him she liked it. That didnt happen in any of the other rapes, according to ST. That is suspect. Why would someone who turned off furnaces turn on a noisy fireplace and rape a girl 2x next to it. Also never mentioned in ST, in hot weather, didnt he turn off air conditioning and close windows? Or did he not hit in hot weather because it would be miserable inside with no air.

Keep up with the good work. I just answered from what you posted, but he said quite a bit more in his attacks than was noted.

Also, the use of organized vs disorganized in relation to these types of crimes have to do with psychological disturbances usually caused by a mental disability. You said you were a prison drug counselor or did you say psychologist?

Section 2.3: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_killer

I do not believe went from organized to "disorganized." He went from working his ritualized plan to momentarily confused when his plan did not go according to his plan. Then he became a bit discombobulated as what to do next. And he occasionally ended up giving up, because he couldnt control one botched victim who was not his intended, and then still go on to attack his intended that night. He aborted. I think he took control of at least one thing that was not going his way, and that was the attack on the co workers(the woman had 2 dogs) that he met at the front door and drove them back inside. Running out of a home because your victim got away or giving up a plan that was 'off' is not disorganized. It shows he was organized enough to know how to exit the scene when things went awry.

The only thing that seemed to interfere with earons ability to stay on track with his plan, was the anxiety and momentary confusion of OCD. When things do not go as planned, like with the girl he left by the tree, he momentarily futzed out and had to gather himself as what to do next.
If you can point to times he lost it, Id choose the crying jags and whining he did.



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Edited by the confidence is the balaclava, 4 months ago
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By the confidence is the balaclava
Member
4 months ago
469 Posts
EAR attack overview

Balaclava, i used organised/disorganised not according to the FBI manual to categorise serial killers. When using organised/disorganised here, i do so only in conjuction with EAR´s attacks. Substitute planned/unplanned for organised/disorganised if you like. What i am doing is just a brief overview of the known EAR attacks, so it is not a complete list of everything what he did and said at the crime scenes. There is no such list on this board and so i thought is would be a good idea to create one so that each poster can use it to his/her liking. Arch suggested that each and all EAR-statements should be put in separate list und i think i would do such a list according to ST when i am finished with the attack overview. Part III will be posted today or perhaps tomorrow. Please everyone keep in mind that in this case we all have to deal with a system of equations with unknown X- and Y- variables. These unknown X- and Y- variables are the heldback info, parts of EAR´s MO and/or signature that were never made public. We have no way to know this heldback info is. Some posters (Arch, dengas...?) seem to be in contact with the actual investigators and/or have perhaps acess to the original case files, so they know a lot more than they are free to post. To your question:



I am not a drug counsellor or psychatrist, i´m in my 20th year of service in german LE as what would be perhaps called a peace officer in the US. German LE is very differently organised than US LE. One of my past assingments was comparable to a parole officer to monitor and oversee released mentally disordered sex offenders. Those offenders where evaluated to be legally insane. These offenders were sent to mental hospitals and were released under certain terms and conditions. To see their psychatrist once or twice a week, take their medications, staying clean of alcohol and drugs, let their residence being searched by police or peace officers ect.... failing to do so would send them back to a mental state hospital.

I am working a different kind of offences now but EAR´s reported behaviour reminded me of likeminded offenders i actually worked .



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By germgrom68
Member
4 months ago
54 Posts
One of EARS favorite words

More than a few of EARS victims vividly recalled him using the word "flinch"


From the book "The Flinch" by Julien Smith(free on Amazon if that is an indicator)

* The flinch is why you don't do the work that matters, and why you won't make the hard decisions

.* Over a lifetime, those who listen too much build a habit of trust and conformity.

* Avoiding the flinch withers you, like an old tree that breaks instead of bending in a storm.

* The anxiety of the flinch is almost always worse than the pain itself.

* Flinch avoidance means your everyday world becomes a corridor.

* Train yourself to flinch forward, and your world becomes a series of obstacles to overcome, instead of attacks you have to defend yourself from.



I'm more inclined to believe that he may have been a trap or skeet shooter;





Field & Stream - Jul 1973 - Page 118

Vol. 78, No. 3 - Magazine - Full view

“For instance, take the field of flinching. I did not know what a flinch was until I took up trapshooting. ... In anticipating recoil I had committed a classic flinch which probably would have pulled me low and to the left of the target had the gun been ...
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Edited by PortofLeith, 4 months ago
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By PortofLeith
Member
4 months ago
953 Posts
EAR attack overview part III
04/01/77
First attack on couple with 2 children, typical EAR script, multiple rape, he said had killed some people in bakersfield, dishes trick used first time, control weapon: gun, organised04/15/77Attack on couple, typical EAR script, rape, dishes trick used, cocaine, „beans“(pills?) & marijuana stolen, control weapon: gun, organised05/03/77attack on couple with 2 children, typical EAR script, rape, estensive use oft he word „B!tch“, dishes trick used, control weapon: gun, organised05/05/77Driveway attack on couple, female was visiting male the first time, evtl. EAR followed the couple home,, typical EAR script, mulitiple rape, dishes trick used, control weapon: gun, organised05/14/77Attack on couple, typical EAR script, rape, dishes trick used, control weapon: gun, organised05/17/77Attack on couple with 2 children, father-in-law also present, typical EAR script, rape, dishes trick used, death threats, rantings about the „pigs“, control weapon: gun, organised05/28/77Attack on couple with 1 child, typical EAR script, rape, dishes trick used, , death threats, control weapon: gun, organised09/06/77attack on couple with 2 children, typical EAR script, rape, dishes trick used, control weapon: gun, organised10/01/77attack on couple in a duplex, typical EAR script, rape, dishes trick used, unloaded shotgun prior to the attack, asked for drugs, male considered tob e a „biker-type“, unusual victim profile for EAR, control weapon: gun, organised
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By germgrom68
Member
4 months ago
54 Posts
In

Scotland the word flinch means move.More like recoiling from danger though like if someone was going to punch you.You would flinch/move to protect yourself. Does it not mean the same in America?
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Edited by briffyboy, 4 months ago
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By briffyboy
Member
4 months ago
222 Posts
Re: Danville Confrontation
Posted By: briffyboy

Scotland the word flinch means move.More like recoiling from danger though like if someone was going to punch you.You would flinch/move to protect yourself. Does it not mean the same in America?

There is a game that every school boy participates in whether he likes it or not where a kid usually a bit a bully will go through the motions of hitting a kid to see if they can startle him. When the unsuspecting boy "flinches" the other kid shouts out "made you flinch" all the other boys laugh at him and the aggressor gets to punch the other boy as hard as he can in the shoulder twice. First he always shouts "two for flinching." This was a very common practice when I was in school both in California and in another state. Now with zero tolerance for violence it probably is not as common. So no I don't think his use of the word flinch would help narrow the search. Just google "two for flinching." Very common game that allowed the jocks to bond with each other and torment the jumpy nerds. There was always at least one guy that could not help but flinch no matter how hard he tried. Like I said it was a favorite tool of the "tools" to torment other kids. BTW if you think this game sounds harsh it has nothing on a related game called "cup check." My response to a cup check was always the same I would punch the guy directly in the face. Homy don't play that.



Official Guide To 2 For Flinching



Section I- General Rules

1) If you flinch when another person fakes a punch toward you, and does not make contact with your body, the person who threw the fake punch gets 2 free, unguarded punches to you.

2) A flinch does NOT include a blink, change in facial expression, or a yell.

3) The punches will be applied to the flincher's arm, between the elbow and shoulder, unless otherwise agreed upon by both the flincher and the puncher.

4) There is no limit to the amount of punches that may be applied in any one day.

5) In the event of a dispute about a "flinch", a witness not involved in the punch or flinch may be consulted.

6) The final say in any dispute goes to the puncher and flincher. If a dispute cannot be settled, there will be no punches. In other words, the tie goes to the flincher.

Official Guide To 2 For Flinching



Section I- General Rules

1) If you flinch when another person fakes a punch toward you, and does not make contact with your body, the person who threw the fake punch gets 2 free, unguarded punches to you.

2) A flinch does NOT include a blink, change in facial expression, or a yell.

3) The punches will be applied to the flincher's arm, between the elbow and shoulder, unless otherwise agreed upon by both the flincher and the puncher.

4) There is no limit to the amount of punches that may be applied in any one day.

5) In the event of a dispute about a "flinch", a witness not involved in the punch or flinch may be consulted.

6) The final say in any dispute goes to the puncher and flincher. If a dispute cannot be settled, there will be no punches. In other words, the tie goes to the flincher.
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Edited by Repoman, 4 months ago
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By Repoman
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4 months ago
1487 Posts

[Drifter]

Dark Minds New Season

The new season of "Dark Minds" with M. William Phelps premiers on Jan25th on Investigation Discovery Channel at 10:00pm. I don't know which week will feature "Ear ONS, but I do know it will be forthcoming.
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Edited by PortofLeith, 5 months ago
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By PortofLeith
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5 months ago
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Re: That diamond knot? So many questions???
Posted By: guessting
Posted By: briffyboy
thing about the show is Phelps kept saying that if this guy had a partner at the time then she would have noticed this obsession with knots and bondage. He also put up the tip line at the end for anyone who had any information.
I have seen a Diamond knot and its possible to leave it loose and tighten it up later so I think he probably took them pre-tied and tightened them up round when they were on the victims. He had to tie the knot four times and I think it would be almost impossible under pressure.I know this sounds crazy but seeing how Charlene made Jewellery and other fancy things is it possible the knots and rope were hers? Was it not only this crime scene that the knot was used?

Great point Briffy. At the risk of setting some individuals off I will say as (devils advocate) that EAR used that knot once. Did he admire it in the Smith home and decide to use it? I believe if he could tie it he would of used it more often, maybe??? I do believe the knot was part of his excitement. His knots were for functionality and they at best let a couple of victim's get free. My question would be..Did he come to the scene with that knot pre-tied? Or..did he find it in the Smith home and cut it loose and use it? Ot last but not least did EAR know how to tie the diamond knot? g
Usually he used either a granny knot,square knot or an overhand knot which are all fairly easy to tie but you would still need some knowledge of knots to be able to tie them. I learned them all in the scouts and I have forgot them already and i'm only 26. At the later crime scenes he took the ligatures away so I suppose we won't know what knots he used there.
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By briffyboy
Member
4 months ago
222 Posts
the diamond knot
ive always had a feeling he learnt to tie this elaborate knot to thumb his nose at detectives.under pressure it would be very hard to pull off.is it possible he removed an easier knot and tied a more decorative knot after he murdered?
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By metalhalide
Member
4 months ago
194 Posts
Diamond Knot
But look at the time not just people on this board but law enforcement and profiles spent hashing over the diamond knot. EAR tied his victims to gain control of the crime scene. Then he terrorized them by returning, sometimes more than once, so they wouldn't know when he left. His fantasy was a lot bigger than tying somebody up. He was sticking it to the man. He was breaking not just the law but a bunch of rules we all thought we could live by. It was as I have said before about getting away with it. Whatever it was. It's thumbing you nose at the police and the laws and the social. conventions. Toss in dehumanization of women and a shitload of control fantasies and there you have EAR
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By f1guyus
Member
4 months ago
1265 Posts
Re: Diamond Knot
Posted By: f1guyus
But look at the time not just people on this board but law enforcement and profiles spent hashing over the diamond knot. EAR tied his victims to gain control of the crime scene. Then he terrorized them by returning, sometimes more than once, so they wouldn't know when he left. His fantasy was a lot bigger than tying somebody up. He was sticking it to the man. He was breaking not just the law but a bunch of rules we all thought we could live by. It was as I have said before about getting away with it. Whatever it was. It's thumbing you nose at the police and the laws and the social. conventions. Toss in dehumanization of women and a shitload of control fantasies and there you have EAR

He didn't go on this rampage because his sixth grade teacher cancelled a field trip. Or because he wanted to thumb his nose at society and not play by the rules. There was something much deeper with this guy. Probably a less than ideal childhood. I think the odd gait and the under developed penis, indicate a medical condition. That plus the bad childhood, plus the fact that he has no empathy, that is how a guy like this comes to be.
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Edited by Repoman, 3 months ago
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By Repoman
Member
3 months ago
1487 Posts
Nothing but the truth from victim
Posted By: problemsolver

he was looking to be dramatic not for facts. that part when he was like "I got my own guy" was lame. They built him into a navy seal style guy because it made it more interesting. This guy also got lucky a few times with not getting caught. He wasnt perfect.

In defense of crumpton where people said he was sexually insensitive. The victim last night smiled and said "He wasnt well endowed" I think that might be a defense mechism for the victim to feel like they might have control like if the guy saw the tv, he would be embarassed.
Nearly ALL of the police reports mention EAR as being very small. So the victim was not trying to embarrass EAR she was telling the absolute truth. One victim, a virgin even spoke about EARS very tiny endowment. G
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By guessting
Member
3 months ago
2045 Posts
Re: Diamond Knot
Posted By: f1guyus
But look at the time not just people on this board but law enforcement and profiles spent hashing over the diamond knot. EAR tied his victims to gain control of the by Browse to Save" href="#" in_rurl="http://i.trkjmp.com/click?v=VVM6MjU5Njc6NDpjcmltZTo1NGRkOWE2N2UxMTM5MDc1NTU2OTdhMTRmN2JiYjg4NDp6LTEwNjMtMTIwNzUxOmNvbW11bml0eS5hZXR2LmNvbToxNTg5Nzo2OWIzMWNiNmIwNjEzMDAwMzBiZTRjZjQ0MGFiODY1MA">crime scene. Then he terrorized them by returning, sometimes more than once, so they wouldn't know when he left. His fantasy was a lot bigger than tying somebody up. He was sticking it to the man. He was breaking not just the law but a bunch of rules we all thought we could live by. It was as I have said before about getting away with it. Whatever it was. It's thumbing you nose at the police and the laws and the social. conventions. Toss in dehumanization of women and a shitload of control fantasies and there you have EAR
I thought what you said was really interestiing because you mentioned that he was not only breaking the law but a bunch of rules we all thought we could live by. So he was thumbing his nose at not only police and laws but social conventions. That is interesting to me because some time ago a poster on this board mentioned that earons was likely doing things to people that were not necessarily illegal. I thought about this a lot at the time because I thought that poster was hinting at something. I don't remember who the poster was, and I am not going to look it up. But, if a person like earons wants to control people, there are a lot of things he can do that are not illegal, especially if he has money.
He can purposefully interfere with friendships or business relationships for example by sending interfering or alarming emails. He could arrange it so people appear to be doing something they are not. That is something we have discussed before. He could bribe people. Hire detectives, actors, convince friends to help him play a practical joke on someone. The possibilities are endless. He could send a hooker to a married friend and have her pretend to be a nice girl that is just innocent and interested and sympathetic. He could screw with people. That would be ultimate control because he couldn't even be arrested for that.
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By Grundle
Member
3 months ago
60 Posts

[Drifter]

Davis Composite Sketch

Here is the Davis Sketch. Guestting can provide the details on it's creation:

Davis Sketch
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts

« Previous 1 2
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Moronic
Posted By: Cimmerian10
I believe it is him. On the surface the sketch seems different from the other composites but this may be a result of the witness not getting a very good look at him or the EAR's use of disguises or both. That hairstyle alone is enough to significantly alter the appearance of the face. Combine it with rubber bands over the maxillary alveolar process and wax or superglue to alter the shape of the nose and you've got a pretty good disguise. But if you look in to the eyes of this composite and most of the others you will see a trend. You have looked in to the eyes of a devil. Thanks to Guessting for sharing the picture and to SpeakelOfEngrish for clearing it up.
A moronic post - even by your standards - what the hell do rubber bands, superglue or wax have to do with anything other than you trying to fit square pegs into round holes??
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By SammyT
Member
2 years ago
433 Posts
Re: Davis Composite Sketch
I forgive you for your arrogance. Others have noted that the person in this sketch has facial features that differ somewhat from the other sketches of the East Area Rapist. I have suggested he may have made the use of disguises to alter his appearance. Rubber bands, superglue and wax are all tools that can be used to accomplish that task, as is crossdressing, another method of disguise which he may or may not have used to conceal his identity.
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By Cimmerian10
Member
2 years ago
1000 Posts
guessting, sketch
Thank you guessting for the sketch. I was hoping it would closely match one of the other sketches confirming which of the various sketches would be the most accurate. Is this sketch made by the woman who (pg. 343 and 344, Sudden Terror) confronted a male "between" her house and her neighbor's. He said he worked for a developer and were interested in solar homes and that was the same neighbor who found the Golden Bear brand jacket on her walkway by her gate? Thanks
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By Sandia
Member
2 years ago
1382 Posts
Re: Cleaned-up Davis sketch
Posted By: SpeakelOfEngrish

With just a dash of artistic license:


Even though I don't get along with you Speakel, I must give you your props, this is an excellent job and it is nice and clear, however, I hope you take this as constructive... For some reason it looks different from the original. I think it might be because the face looks fuller and the bottom lip looks fuller in the original. I think your observation about how the Ted Bundy sketch with the hair in the sketch and the actual photo of him at the time is a good observation. Another possibility is that EAR/ONS was overdue for his trip to the barber, or he just got out of the shower and didn't comb his hair, or he had just ripped the ski mask off his head (the latter I think is unlikely though.)
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By Sandia
Member
2 years ago
1382 Posts
Arrogance
Posted By: Cimmerian10
I forgive you for your arrogance. Others have noted that the person in this sketch has facial features that differ somewhat from the other sketches of the East Area Rapist. I have suggested he may have made the use of disguises to alter his appearance. Rubber bands, superglue and wax are all tools that can be used to accomplish that task, as is crossdressing, another method of disguise which he may or may not have used to conceal his identity.
...and I forgive your ignorance...of the facts
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By SammyT
Member
2 years ago
433 Posts
Fullness of lips (Sandia)

Sandia, a cursory glance at the reduced-size version of the sketch does indeed make it appear as though the subject has an unnaturally huge bottom lip—almost cartoony—but if you look at the larger original, you'll see that what appears to be a line representing the bottom of the bottom lip is in fact representing the upper ridge of the chin:





I assume it's because of the third-generation quality of the available xerox that this feature appears more prominent than it should.

You'll see, also, that the eyebrows and the whites of the eyes are free of the speckles that crowd the rest of the composite; the same is the case with the bottom lip, and this is how I was able to distinguish it.
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By SpeakelOfEngrish
Member
2 years ago
1090 Posts
Davis Sketch
Perhaps if anyone has ties to a forensic artist they can have this sketch cleaned up with modern techniques. Maybe alter hairstyles somewhat. Then a quick comparison to some of the other composites. What if we do the reverse as well put this hairstyle on the other sketches that exist. maybe someone could get it out to media. You never know.
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By Smitty2011
Member
2 years ago
107 Posts

[Drifter]

DAvis July 6 1978

Note that this Davis victim lived five blocks from the previous victim and they knew each other. If you read the details of this attack in "Sudden Terror", it also mentions that the victim's ex-husband is a doctor. Has anyone ever totalled the percentage of rape victims who had connections to medical professions?



news.google.com/newspapers?id=m1Y0AAAAIBAJ&sjid=98sFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4758,2378101&dq=early+morning+rapist+sacramento&hl=en
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By PortofLeith
Member
2 years ago
954 Posts

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This is a job for distractoman ! I mean SOE
Hey SOE why don't you go through clippings and answer this question. How many victims, or their partners were in the medical field?
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By caseprofiler
Member
2 years ago
235 Posts
Re: This is a job for distractoman ! I mean SOE
Posted By: caseprofiler
Hey SOE why don't you go through clippings and answer this question. How many victims, or their partners were in the medical field?

Hey, Ms. CaseProfiler, ma'am... if you are trying to convince Mr. SpeakelOfEngrish
you ARE NOT Ms. Clarice... let me tell you, ma'am... using a unique phrase
like "distractoman" does not help....

Why?

Ms. Clarice was THE ONLY poster on this whole website to use that word
in one of her posts... here is the exact post, ma'am....

Ms. Clarice's Post:

ROFL

That was really funny!
When you live in the sticks and the closest business is 40 -80 miles you sometimes work on farms. They hire extra help during certain harvesting seasons. The Amish don't shoot their cattle and don't use the same means that others do since they don't use electricity.
How did the discussion get so off track? I really did not think it was a funny topic to make some poor guy do that all day long. I think anyone that he told these stories to would remember them, and mabye this POI is who he learned the dish trick from.

I have a feeling EAR/ONS would be very happy about Distractoman (from SNL) like tactics on the board, and never figuring out any new leads.


You can find this post in a thread from 5 months back ... CLICK HERE to see the
thread....


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Edited by AaronTimones, 2 years ago
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By AaronTimones
Member
2 years ago
1103 Posts
Re: This is a job for distractoman ! I mean SOE
Aaron,

Ha! Thank you for pointing that out. We surely have some weirdos lurking around this website.
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By SpeakelOfEngrish
Member
2 years ago
1090 Posts
Re: DAvis July 6 1978
Good detective work Aaron!
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By akwilks
Member
2 years ago
1346 Posts
Re: DAvis July 6 1978
Port - Do you know if any of the Davis victims had ties to UC Davis?
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By akwilks
Member
2 years ago
1346 Posts
Re: Re: This is a job for distractoman ! I mean SOE
Posted By: AaronTimones
Posted By: caseprofiler

Hey, Ms. CaseProfiler, ma'am... if you are trying to convince Mr. SpeakelOfEngrish
you ARE NOT Ms. Clarice... let me tell you, ma'am... using a unique phrase
like "distractoman" does not help....

Why?

Ms. Clarice was THE ONLY poster on this whole website to use that word
in one of her posts... here is the exact post, ma'am....

I have a feeling EAR/ONS would be very happy about Distractoman (from SNL) like tactics on the board, and never figuring out any new leads.


You can find this post in a thread from 5 months back ... CLICK HERE to see the
thread....


Aaron
Are you using that little google trick!?



Yes the nut job wackos are out like it's Halloween lately... distracting...





.
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Edited by ResDpty, 2 years ago
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By ResDpty
Member
2 years ago
59 Posts
1991 Phone Call
Hey, Mr. ResDpty, sir.

I just so happen to remember that distinct word being used in conjunction with the
Amish Cattle Beater Guy thread... and the only reason I remembered that thread
was because that was one of the more OUT-THERE threads....

And I would like to know more about that 1991 phone call that Mr. EAR-ONS made
to one of his former victims....
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By AaronTimones
Member
2 years ago
1103 Posts
Re: Re: Re: This is a job for distractoman ! I mean SOE
Posted By: ResDpty
Posted By: AaronTimones
Posted By: caseprofiler

Hey, Ms. CaseProfiler, ma'am... if you are trying to convince Mr. SpeakelOfEngrish
you ARE NOT Ms. Clarice... let me tell you, ma'am... using a unique phrase
like "distractoman" does not help....

Why?

Ms. Clarice was THE ONLY poster on this whole website to use that word
in one of her posts... here is the exact post, ma'am....

I have a feeling EAR/ONS would be very happy about Distractoman (from SNL) like tactics on the board, and never figuring out any new leads.


You can find this post in a thread from 5 months back ... CLICK HERE to see the
thread....


Aaron
Are you using that little google trick!?



Yes the nut job wackos are out like it's Halloween lately... distracting...





.
It is not even a full moon.
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By Arbed
Member
2 years ago
278 Posts
Ms. CaseProfiler

Hello, Ms. CaseProfiler, ma'am.

I was not saying you are Ms. Clarice... or that you are Mrs. AliciaNotorius... and to be
quite frank... I don't really care if you are, ma'am....

The only reason why I brought up the odd usage of the word "distractoman" was to
point out an interesting "coincidence"....... nothing more.... and I did happen to
notice that fairly recently you and Mr. SpeakelOfEngrish have been having a back and
forth as to the "identity" of each other...

For example, in another thread you said:

However I do wonder who YOU are? Why are you so nasty to anyone who digs for the truth? What are you afraid of? Who are YOU? I don't think you are Aaron because you have a different style, and are signed on at the same time. That is why it is obvious. However you seem nasty, and paranoid.

I guess it is just more histrionics from SOE.

I did not bring up this "People-Have-Multiple-Accounts-On-This-Discussion-Board"
conversation.... all I did was join in on the conversation after it got started by you and
Mr. SpeakelOfEngrish......

I was not irritated with you for inferring the possibility I might be Mr. SpeakelOfEngrish
in the post I quoted above, ma'am......... and I didn't think you would be angry with me
by pointing out the "distractoman" thing because I thought you probably weren't
Ms. Clarice -- and perhaps you'd find it amusing.....

If you want to "lump" me in with a couple of other posters you don't like because of
this whole "distractoman" thing.... you're free to do what you want, ma'am...

For what it's worth, I HAVE said that I will await whatever progress happens with you
and Mrs. shewhowatches' CHINATOWN angle..... if it is THE TRUTH... then we're all
wrong... and what does our ignorance matter at the end of the day just so long as
you are right and the innocent victims and the family members of the victims find
the justice they deserve..............

Everyone wants justice at the end of the day.... on that I think we can at least agree,
right, ma'am?

The only thing I have in common with Mr. KevTheBoer is love of pizza and a great
admiration for Mike Figgis' LEAVING LAS VEGAS....

And Mr. SpeakelOfEngrish and Mr. Akwilks are all right, too.

Smile
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By AaronTimones
Member
2 years ago
1103 Posts
Fighting on the board
While there have been times, I have almost had to bite my tongue clean off and other times my temper got the better of me, I really don't think this arguing is a good thing. Some of the arguing is actually really funny, especially between SOE and Caseprofiler. My favorite lines so far have been: 1) You can't handle the truth (as a heading) 2) Lighten up, Clarice and #1 goes to Miss Caseprofiler: Solly Speakel, stirr hele (I found that very funny) However, I think a number of us posted on the Visalia Newspaper comments section how people should check out www.ear-ons.com and this a&e discussion board to find out more information and join in the discussion of these crimes and trying to find the killer. If they checked it out today it wouldn't be good. Not a good impression, I think we should all keep that in mind if we want to attract more people with possibly more information and input to try to keep it more respectable. Just my 2 cents worth.
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By Sandia
Member
2 years ago
1369 Posts
Sadia has a good point ...
"However, I think a number of us posted on the Visalia Newspaper comments section how people should check out www.ear-ons.com and this a&e discussion board to find out more information and join in the discussion of these crimes and trying to find the killer. If they checked it out today it wouldn't be good. Not a good impression, I think we should all keep that in mind if we want to attract more people with possibly more information and input to try to keep it more respectable. Just my 2 cents worth."
Sandia

I will agree Sandia has a very valid good point. It would be nice if other potential poster did not see trolling and arguing.
If Mr. theworldisflat I mean SOE will agree to keep in sane and civil so will I.
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By caseprofiler
Member
2 years ago
235 Posts
in the spirit of fighting ignorance...

caseprofiler wrote, as quoted by Aaron above, "Who are YOU?[referring to SOE] I don't think you are Aaron because you have a different style, and are signed on at the same time.
.............................................................................................................
umm, caseprofiler, ONE person, let's say me, could be logged on at the SAME TIME TO MANY DIFFERENT MEMBER ACCOUNTS. In fact it'd be easy (for me, one person) to reply as 3 posters at the very same time right now.
The computer in the lobby of my hotel is hooked up via a firewire. My notebook (let's say it's sitting next to me at the lobby computer) could be logged into a different member account via the hotel's wi-fi. Since I'm staying in an area with several other hotel in direct proximity I could log into one of their wi-fi connections with my husband's laptop. Walla. 3 "different" posters, posting at the same time...and it's really just me.
The same would be true at our home--we detect several neighbor's wi-fi networks [and our own]...so via the kid's room computer, our pc, laptop and notebook....well, you get the picture, right? Each post could ostensively come from A DIFFERENT IP ADDRESS.

so. Is ignorance fought?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
fwiw I hadn't read the above messages when I posted to other threads (Aaron uses a phrase quite like mine, I didn't copy..and I'm not Aaron.) What I wanted to say is: on the other threads I rebuffed caseprofiler without realizing it had been done here.
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Edited by Breccia, 2 years ago
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By Breccia
Member
2 years ago
218 Posts
Sigh
OK wanna be Nancy Drew we could all use proxies, and post from home, work, neighbors wifi ...
We could also all have handles logged on at the same time on different MAC IDs ...
I guess you could TRY to write in a different style ...
However that would mean you really need other hobbies, and a shrink. You are correct in saying it can be done in many ways.

HOWEVER delusional posters who claim that one person had three handles are another thing entirely. It is okay if you don't like my theory, it is not originally mine, I did not come up with it first, and I don't like it either. The theory does make sense though ... with corresponding documentation, and motives.
I never said he wasn't a freak, he is; but he began to make it profitable.
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By caseprofiler
Member
2 years ago
235 Posts
DAvis July 6 1978
It's a good point. I noted 3 in SoCal while reading the other day.
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By ladyofthelake
Member
2 years ago
209 Posts

[Drifter]

Military training links string of serial killers

Military training links string of serial killers

It appears that there are many serial killers that at one time or another served in one of the branches of the US Military. The Green River Killer (Gary Ridgeway) was in the Navy. Richard Allen Davis was in the Army. I know there are many many more.

Lets put some life into this board
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By deadbolt
Member
3 years ago
225 Posts

« Previous 1 2 3 4
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You are right about.....

the military connection and serial killers so many have passed through the armed forces, the thing is most serial kilers are psychopaths and psychopaths tend to seek stimulation hence they gravitate towards certain careers and activities were they get excitement and stimulation such as .......the military,police,fire brigade and other high risk adrenaline careeers and also the careers were they can manipulate people such as politics. Examples of other serial killers who have passed through the army are the DC sniper, leonard Lake and Charles Ng,The Black panther,........
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By DanCartell
Member
2 years ago
683 Posts
Re: Military training links string of serial killers
It is not surprising that many of these serial killers have in common the military, because the US Draft did not end until June of 1973.
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By JaneDoe
Member
2 years ago
366 Posts
Read Only if interested in nDNA vs mtDNA

Dan Cartell's DNA Story works for me. Ignore this post unless you are particularly interested in the 2 different forms of DNA.

This is something I typed up a long time ago when Aaron (iirc) was suggesting clipping Ted K.'s hair + comparing it to the EAR's CODIS DNA. CODIS DNA is nuclear DNA, Ted's hair shaft clippings would contain the much simpler mitochondrial DNA. The 2 forms of DNA, mito and nuclear, aren't the same. Here's why:

2 types of DNA :

1. nuclear, nDNA= the double helix in the nucleus of almost every cell in your body.* It contains the code for every cell in your body --->the genes that determine your eye color, height (potential height, if you're healthy and fed right), your blood type. It makes you YOU. it is complex and fragile. with, at most, one double helix per body cell.

2. mitochondrial, mtDNA--> It's in the mitochondria (known in 9th grade biology as the "powerhouse of the cell"). mitochondria have their own dna due to the way the sperm and egg come together and cell division. There are many mitrochondria in each cell; some cells having more than others.** The dna in mitochondria only codes for reproducing itself; so it's alot less complex than nuclear dna. And there are many mitochondria in each cell. So, there you have it, mtDNA is simple, hardy DNA with many copies per cell.

But the mitochondrial dna ONLY comes from your mother (this is likely to occur because: the head of the sperm which doesn't contain mitrchondria*** penetrates the egg creating the first cell (that divides to become YOU) which has a double helix of nuclear DNA. however since the head of the sperm doesn't contain mitrochondria your mtDNA comes from the egg which is from your mother.



*human red blood cells have no nucleus, so rbc have no nuclear dna...chicken rbc's do, who knew? just a factoid. your 'germ' cells i.e. sperm, have as you know a x or a y chromosome. so as you might guess or remember 'germ' cells don't have the 'double helix' but rather, half a compliment, which is a single strand of nuclear DNA. Combining sperm and egg cells --> double helix which will code for YOU. Now, in YOU most of your cells contain a nucleus which contains a double helix of DNA, half from your mom and half from dad.

one other point===> you might wonder, 'how can blood give CODIS nDNA if red blood cells do not have any nuclear dna? well, blood's made up of a bunch of cells and proteins, some of which, white blood cells for instance, are great sources of nuclear DNA.

** Some cells are real rich in mitochondria; think chicken. White and dark meat.

Basically the dark meat's dark cause it's stuffed with mitochondria (the 'powerhouse of the cell')---> the part of the chicken that's gotta run is 'dark' with it.

**** "doesn't contain mitochondria" simplifies the actual situation. But it's kind of easy to remember that the tail of the sperm does the swimming and so contains lots of mitrochondria ('the powerhouse of the cell') The head of the sperm penetrates the egg to deposit its single strand of nuclear DNA but does not end up contributing mitochondrial DNA.
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Edited by Breccia, 2 years ago
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By Breccia
Member
2 years ago
218 Posts
Re: Assistance from other agencies
Posted By: PortofLeith

Deadbolt, This is an article that appeared in Argus June 11, 1977:



Sacramento(UPI)

State and Federal officials are supplying technical assistance to local police authorities in a massive manhunt for a Sacramento rapist who has attacked 24 women in 19 months, an official said yesterday.

Sacramento Sheriff's Department spokesman Bill Miller said the FBI has loaned local law enforcement special equipment and the State Department of Justice has provided an analysis specialist to assist in the search.. .He said that the hunt for the rapist- who has raped 24 women, many of them housewives, since October 1975- has already consumed more than 40,000 man hours in the sheriff's department alone.

In the Weston Lushbaugh textbook "Criminal Investigation" it is stated that 2.5 million dollars was expended on the hunt. I have other articles that state that the CHP helicopters were brought in on a regular basis to assist Sac LE. In the E THS Investigates the Original Night Stalker Carol Daly stated that state of the art surveillance equipment was positioned in the creek beds.

I think a great deal of effort was made by the LE agencies involved. So how was he able to elude them all? Have you read the article that stated that Ears was once on a rooftop while police were still inside interviewing the victim? This was a brazen , bold psychopath who probably enjoyed the aftermath of his crimes as much as the acts themselves. Frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if he left the crime scenes ala Tarzan tree to tree. Also note the interactive map on Arch's site. He always returned to the neighborhood where I believe he lived.

F1guyus. Ears couldn't have been too evidence savvy , because even prior to DNA, semen was used to determine blood type. He also bled in a struggle. That's how we know he was a blood type A non-secretor. Not using a condom was a really stupid move on Ears part, but with his performance issues, the condom probably wouldn't have worked anyway. He couldn't have predicted that DNA analysis would one day be so sophisticated, but he should have know that he was placing himself in less than 15% of the male population in the US by leaving his non-secretor status behind and a blood sample behind.

I do believe though, that he had some kind of training that helped in executing these crimes. I lean towards military, but it could be any number of things from being a hunter, scouting, law enforcement, FFA, security etc. He could also have been self-trained.
If the suspect had been in the military...well, doesn't the military keep physical records of all their troops. If the government agencies have evidence to cross reference, any records or physical evidence in their possession surely had been obtained legally already. And I can only speculate that anyone giving themselves for our country had done so with the understanding that during their service the military pretty much owned them for that term. Would it be possible to crosscheck medical/military records? can the Feds do that? The process of elimination can be long and arduous but why the heck not try it?
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By juliett
Member
2 years ago
14 Posts

[Drifter]

Deductive vs Inductive Reasoning

The revelation about the Goleta cases has highlighted a problem in CSI that is pervasive. It is not quite analogous to deductive reasoning vs inductive reasoning but it is close. The people who got the Goleta cases wrong fixated on one suspect and either ignored or skewed the case facts to fit that one particular suspect. Whittling away at the square peg to force it into the round hole. Prior to DNA evidence, it was much easier to do that.

The first thing that all of them did was relegate all of the M.O./Signature to relativism. They picked and chose which part of the M.O./Signature fit their particular case theory and ignored anything else to the contrary.

In the Goleta cases, they would start with the false premise that the crimes could not be committed by the EAR because the EAR never lost control of a crime scene. First (as I pointed out in my criticism of the EAR A/B Theory) the EAR lost control of several crimes scenes. Early in his series he lost control of the #3 crime scene. Further, he lost control of the Danville crime scene prior to moving on to Goleta.

Proving that premise false should have been the end of the EAR A/B nonsense (and Det. Baker's resistance to linking the Goleta crimes to the EAR as that is the same argument the scoffers used back in 1980). Then, of course, they moved on to the EAR never shot his victims.

Another false premise as it is accepted that the EAR shot Rod Miller. Some of those same people who argued that the EAR never shot his victims would argue that the EAR was the killer of the Maggiores who, if true, shot his victims. He constantly made threats to his victims that he would shoot them or stab them if they did not cooperate.

It was inevitable that IF the victims resisted, he would be forced to shoot them. What did anyone think the EAR would do if his victims resisted? Tickle them? Well, we know that in all 3 Goleta cases, the victims resisted. This points out the lack of a firearm in Goleta 1 (reason still unknown as to why). He didn't even threaten to shoot them in Goleta 1 further indicating the lack of a firearm. Goleta 2 and 3 obviously different. He had a firearm, the victims resisted and they were shot. So, again, the EAR A/B crowd failed to apply logic that even Simple Jack could have applied.

Instead, they applied Pretzel Logic. Pretzel Logic that says a completely different serial offender who looks like the EAR, has the same shoe size as the EAR, has the same M.O./Signature as the EAR showed up in Southern CA the same time that the EAR did, but is not the EAR. These people "make my eyes rain" (as well as making my head hurt).

Additionally, they posited that the EAR for no apparent reason decided to stop separating his victims and start bludgeoning his victims with no escalative events in between. And then the separate Goleta Phantom starts bludgeoning his victims and removing weapons and ligatures for no apparent reason at the same time the EAR starts doing that... but they are not the same people.

It is truly astonishing that such people actually exist. The sad thing is that some of them were in charge of some of the investigations in Southern CA. The one thing that I've learned is that incompetence rises to the top. I know that an idiot in charge has the tendency to surround himself with "Yes Men" (ie other idiots) while weeding out any dissension or other signs of intelligence.

It's really too bad the world turns that way...
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Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76
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2 years ago
2159 Posts

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Get Over It

Do you really think going on and on about how someone screwed up in the past is going to help solve the case. You keep reposting the same information over and over. You're better than your recent negative rants. Snap out of it.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=kslHr7_9Zac
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Edited by Repoman, 2 years ago
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By Repoman
Member
2 years ago
1487 Posts
Re: Get Over It
The Eagles suck.
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By SpeakelOfEngrish
Member
2 years ago
1090 Posts
Re: Get Over It
Posted By: Repoman

Do you really think going on and on about how someone screwed up in the past is going to help solve the case. You keep reposting the same information over and over. You're better than your recent negative rants. Snap out of it.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=kslHr7_9Zac

Repoman,

First, I'll get over this case when the victim's and their families have some small measure of closure. Until then, you'll simply have to indulge me as I vent some of my frustration on this board.

Do I think that reposting the same information will help solve this case? Yes. A lot of the same problems exist today that existed in the 1970's. There are similar theories floating around today in 2011 that were formulated in the same way that the case theories that fixated on either Glasby or Alsip were formulated.


It dawned on me only couple of days ago how damaging it is to fixate on one suspect (to the exclusion of others) and attempt to skew the evidence to fit that one suspect. This occurred in the Riggins/Gonsalves case with David Hunt (Gerald Gallegos' half-brother). And, unfortunately, it occurs ALL the time. The Innocence Project is dedicated to freeing those people who were not guilty of the crimes they were convicted of. This post sort of explains some of what is/was going on.

It's relevancy is that it allows readers/posters on this board to be more discerning about rigid case theories that fixate on one suspect or one particular case theory to the exclusion of others. It also, I hope, points out how some of those case theories develop. Inductive Reasoning, as it applies to this case, will only work if the hypothesis is correct to begin with. If the suspect or theory is incorrect to begin with, it does not matter how many supporting "facts" there are, the hypothesis will always be wrong ie Glasby and Alsip will never be the EAR/ONS. It is working backwards from a foregone conclusion.

Back when the EAR A/B theory was floating around, I literally left the board. I grew sick of trying to maintain sanity and reason on the board as people seriously considered that unadulterated poppycock called EAR A/B. When I returned, the board had been hijacked by EAR A/B and the theory was being portrayed as the truth and a foregone conclusion. I regretted leaving as there was no voice of reason on the board who was countering EAR A/B with the opposing viewpoint.

The EAR A/Ber was offended and took my critique of his theory personally. I am not one to suffer fools when it comes to this case. There is too much at stake. People have lost their lives. Families have lost their loved ones. The survivor's lives have been indelibly impacted by the heinous acts of one maladjusted serial creep. So you are in error, I am not above negative rants. Not if they highlight the ugly truths of this case. Can't find a solution unless you identify the problem.

Part of what allowed the EAR/ONS to continue offending unabated is incompetence as described in this and other posts. Part of what allows him to continue to remain unidentified is the past incompetence as described in this and other posts. The current investigators have been hampered by the past incompetence of some of their predecessors. 30+ years of investigative leads lost in Goleta and Ventura.

The competent investigators (and there were plenty) were hampered by the incompetent people above them who made some very bad key decisions which negatively impacted the case (such as releasing the phony artist's conception).

So, until the case is solved, you'll have to just put up with my "rants".



BTW, the preface: "The revelation about the Goleta cases has highlighted a problem in CSI that is pervasive" suggests that it is an on-going problem. Not so much in the EAR case, as there are solid investigators looking into the case now but in other cases.
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Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts
Reproving A Fool...

This guy said it so much better than I could:

Question: "Do Proverbs 26:4 and 26:5 contradict? How can both verses be true?"

Answer: Proverbs has much to say about fools. They despise wisdom (Proverbs 1:7, 22, 10:21, 23:9); they are right in their own eyes (Proverbs 12:15); they are deceitful (Proverbs 14:8) and scornful (Proverbs 10:23, 14:9). The wise are also given instruction on how to deal with fools in Proverbs. Instructing a fool is pointless because his speech is full of foolishness (Proverbs 15:2, 14) and he does not want wisdom and understanding (Proverbs 18:2).

The futility of trying to impart wisdom to a fool is the basis of Proverbs 26:4-5 which tell us how to answer a fool. These seemingly contradictory verses are actually a common form of parallelism found in the Old Testament, where one idea builds upon another. Verse 4 warns against arguing with a fool on his own terms, lest we stoop to his level and become as foolish as he is. Because he despises wisdom and correction, the fool will not listen to wise reason and will try to draw us into his type of argument, whether it is by using deceit, scoffing at our wisdom, or becoming angry and abusive. If we allow him to draw us into this type of discourse, we are answering him “according to his folly” in the sense of becoming like him.

The phrase “according to his folly” in verse 5, on the other hand, tells us that there are times when a fool has to be addressed so that his foolishness will not go unchallenged. In this sense answering him according to his folly means to expose the foolishness of his words, rebuking him on the basis of his folly so he will see the idiocy of his words and reasoning. Our “answer” in this case is to be one of reproof, showing him the truth so he might see the foolishness of his words in the light of reason. Even though he will most likely despise and reject the wisdom offered to him, we are to make the attempt, both for the sake of the truth which is always to be declared, and the sake of those listening, that they may see the difference between wisdom and folly and be instructed.

Whether we use the principle of verse 4 and deal with a fool by ignoring him, or obey verse 5 and reprove a fool depends on the situation. In matters of insignificance, it’s probably better to disregard him. In more important areas, such as when a fool denies the existence of God (Psalm 14:1), verse 5 tells us to respond to his foolishness with words of rebuke and instruction. To let a fool speak his nonsense without reproof encourages him to remain wise in his own eyes and possibly gives credibility to his folly in the eyes of others.

In short, in negligible issues we should just ignore fools, but in issues that matter, they must be dealt with so that credence will not be given to what they say.

www.gotquestions.org/Proverbs-26-4-5.html

This case, IMO, is an issue that matters.
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Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts
I Stand Corrected
.
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By Repoman
Member
2 years ago
1487 Posts
BAP! BAP! BAP!
Repo Get back to your repo haven. Stop talkin sense here boy.
Listen up or I'll whip out a bible quote too.
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By Breccia
Member
2 years ago
218 Posts
Re: Deductive vs Inductive Reasoning

Arch, I'm thinking about Goleta 1 and the lack of a firearm!

The reason for this could perhaps be important.

Among the mundane possibilities: like he simply forgot to bring it/sold it/got robberd/disposed of it for whatever reason, there is also the possibility that someone (parents/grandparents/wife/guardians) found it and took it from him, or something of that nature, or whoever he lived with had a collection of guns (which could explain the virtual arsenal he brandished as EAR) and either went out of town and locked up the guns or caught EAR stealing off with one, confronted him and, put him on notice. I guess what I'm saying is we could be looking for someone who lived with a gun collector/hunter father or grandfather..... Otherwise, I can't really believe EAR (morphing into ONS) would show up to attack without a firearm unless he absolutely had to!!!!

I guess this just fits my own theory of a loner kid (by "kid" I mean either in his late late teens or early-mid twenties) who lives with his mommy and daddy and has access to cars and guns and little to no supervision.

I knew kids like this growing up who had dads/grandfathers, usually vietman or korea vets and showed off their guns and such.

One of them is sitting on death row right now :/
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Edited by erikdavid5111, 2 years ago
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By erikdavid5111
Member
2 years ago
556 Posts
Common Sense Please!!

One of the most highly organized offenders ever to set foot in the USA forgetting to bring a firearm with him? Sounds like a great SB Detective theory!
Here is my theory. EAR/ONS did not want his new hobby in So Cal getting back to his pursuers up North (and there were many). Whenever he confronted a man in Nor Cal he had a gun. Therefore he decided not to brandish a gun in order to confuse investigators trying to make a link. Just like he dumped the dish trick. It did not work very well.
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Edited by conquistador1521, 2 years ago
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By conquistador1521
Member
2 years ago
388 Posts
Re: Deductive vs Inductive Reasoning
I'm assuming you meant "forgetting to BRING a firearm"?

I just tossed that in there as an obviously unlikely possibility! But hey, even masterminds can simply forget from time to time!

You could be right, and if so, he obviously learned quickly that it was a bad idea!
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By erikdavid5111
Member
2 years ago
556 Posts
Re: Deductive vs Inductive Reasoning
I'm sure I'll take a hail of bullets for even suggesting this: but the lack of a gun at Goleta 1 really bugs me....

Sooooooo, what IF Goleta 1 was not EAR/ONS but he read about it in the paper and thinks to himself "Hey, there's a copycat out in Goleta! Might be a good idea to go down there and attack so that when they catch the copycat, they'll pin my attacks on that idiot!!"

Goleta 1 could even have been Glasby!!!

No one needs to insult my intelligence over this or my lack of common sense! I'm just musing about possibilities!

There has to be A reason why there was no gun at Goleta 1!
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By erikdavid5111
Member
2 years ago
556 Posts
Re: Re: Deductive vs Inductive Reasoning
Posted By: erikdavid5111
I'm sure I'll take a hail of bullets for even suggesting this: but the lack of a gun at Goleta 1 really bugs me....

Sooooooo, what IF Goleta 1 was not EAR/ONS but he read about it in the paper and thinks to himself "Hey, there's a copycat out in Goleta! Might be a good idea to go down there and attack so that when they catch the copycat, they'll pin my attacks on that idiot!!"

Goleta 1 could even have been Glasby!!!

No one needs to insult my intelligence over this or my lack of common sense! I'm just musing about possibilities!

There has to be A reason why there was no gun at Goleta 1!
In lieu of the hail of bullets, a simple reminder should suffice: Goleta 1, 2, and 3 were linked by physical evidence during the original investigation(s). A few months ago, Goleta 3 was forensically linked to the EAR. Therefore, there is no question that the EAR/ONS was responsible for Goleta 1, 2, and 3.
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By SpeakelOfEngrish
Member
2 years ago
1090 Posts
Re: Deductive vs Inductive Reasoning

What physical evidence links Goleta 1 with 2 and 3?

And I know I'm probably dead wrong about this so, I don't need to hear that.

I want ideas about why there was no gun at Goleta 1!
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Edited by erikdavid5111, 2 years ago
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By erikdavid5111
Member
2 years ago
556 Posts
Re: Deductive vs Inductive Reasoning
OK, the ball of twine and the shoeprints!

Still not 100% proof of the same guy. But VERY likely to be.
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By erikdavid5111
Member
2 years ago
556 Posts
Re: Re: Deductive vs Inductive Reasoning
Posted By: erikdavid5111
OK, the ball of twine and the shoeprints!

Still not 100% proof of the same guy. But VERY likely to be.
Technically, neither is the DNA link proof that any one crime is connected to any other. Technically.
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By SpeakelOfEngrish
Member
2 years ago
1090 Posts
no gun
Maybe they were just a random pick. Their home was down a l o n g driveway, behind Stan's house. Didn't he get in through an open sliding screen door? Maybe he thought she was alone, and quickly realized his error. He was obviously working through (with his mutterings) what he was going to do, now that he was in the house, with a couple, not just a woman. If he had a gun with him (doubtful) and he used it, he probably was thinking about the noise and the need to ride back up the driveway past Stan's house. Has anyone else viewed the house in person? They mystery, to me, is why in the world he chose that house and that setting.
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By dengas
Member
2 years ago
966 Posts
who frisked EAR for a gun?
He had a gun, he was changing his MO, and didn't use the gun when first securing the couple. When he lost control, EAR did what he has done before, and just abandoned the attack.
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By alan2452
Member
2 years ago
4 Posts
Re: Deductive vs Inductive Reasoning
I agree. He probably had the gun but just didn't show it to his victims.

Either that or he was just riding around peeping and couldn't resist the urge to attack, and very swiftly aware of his mistake.
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By erikdavid5111
Member
2 years ago
556 Posts
viewing the house
If you haven't viewed the house where the first attack took place, it is on Jjmcgr's web site.
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By dengas
Member
2 years ago
966 Posts

[Drifter]

Del Dayo Townhall Meetings

These are newspaper articles about the first townhall meetings about the EAR. It was one of these two meetings where the couple allegedly attended and were later attacked by the EAR. In retrospect, it is plausible that they attended the meeting but their encounter with the EAR had nothing to do with the townhall meeting. It is possible that the EAR never attended the meeting and it is coincidental that the couple who did attend the meeting later became victims. Just food for thought.

The first meeting took place on Wednesday, Nov. 3, 1976. It was supposed to be a "crime prevention" seminar hosted by the Del Dayo Parents Club. Instead, it turned into an impromptu EAR townhall meeting because of the rumors circulating through the neighborhood about a serial rapist. After the news broke, the SCSD held a second meeting either or Nov. 4 or Nov. 5.

DelDayo THM
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By Archangel76
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6 months ago
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More Newspaper Articles

11476[1]

11476[2]
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By Archangel76
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6 months ago
2156 Posts
One More Article

111076[1]

111076[2]
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By Archangel76
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6 months ago
2156 Posts

[Drifter]

Description of evidence Visalia Ransacker

Today I spoke with Russ Whitmeyer and Det. Lampe of Visalia PD. I am asking that the Police Dept. release exact descriptions of the jewelry, coins, etc.....

I explained that the VR comes from our generation here in Visalia and now the time has come that we find ourselves burying or moving our ageing parents. In doing this, we are cleaning out these old Visalia homes and thowing much away. Without having exact descriptions of the evidence we could quite possibily be throwing it away. Imagine, opening some old box that contains old costum jewelry and crap that we would never keep......of course, that old box would go right into the back of the truck and taken to the dump along with everything else we didn't want.

Russ Whitmeyer said he would also call the Visalia Police Dept. as he too believes this may be the new lead we need. Det. Lampe said he was going to check the burglary reports and if they exist he may try to get the exact descriptions out. Both said they would call me back. I hope so. Russ Whitmeyer is very sure the EAR/ONS started here as the Visalia Ransacker. Let's keep our fingers crossed because if not for this same generation the VR comes from to catch him after all these years then who?

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By JaneDoe
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2 years ago
366 Posts