Twelvth Set

[Drifter]

Diamond knot and macrame

I have been thinking lately about the diamond knot used to tie up the victims. I'm not sure if someone here on the site has reasearched this matter in the past, but I feel that it is an important aspect to study. After looking into the matter myself, this is what I was able to find:

1. In an article about Bruce Harrington on JJ's site, an investigator asked Bruce early on in the investigation if Patti was into Macrame (which is using knotting rather than weaving or knitting for making various forms of decorative clothing, accessories, etc.) because of the ligature used to bind the Harrington's.

Go to the link and look at the picture at the bottom of the page:

www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.4ormore.co.uk/projects/pix/macrame.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.4ormore.co.uk/projects/anklet.htm&h=327&w=443&sz=31&tbnid=Gm0STbD_zE91kM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmacrame&hl=en&usg=__xcU2PEziKrAEjgFEoFtVllHJ9A0=&ei=3uqSS-2eH4_AsQPJ1OCaBQ&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=9&ct=image&ved=0CCEQ9QEwCA

2. Macrame was said to be popular among the neo-hippie culture of the 1970's.

3. One of the primary knots used in macrame is the square knot (which was used to bind the ankles of Charlene and Lyman Smith).

4. In the FDLE profile, D'Ambrosia states that the knot has a nautical or decorative application. I agree with D'Ambrosia in that it would be important to find out the specific uses for this type of knot used in the Navy [or military].

5. On the historical side, the knot was said to have been used by sailors to decorate knife handles, bottles, and used to secure a knife around the neck of sailors. However, I'm not sure if there are more specific uses than this for the knot.

6. However, what I thought was most significant is that some of the masks used by EAR looked as if they were homemade. Macrame maybe?

Conclude from this what you will, but I would like to get your thoughts on this because I feel that this is an important avenue to follow. Of course, D'Ambrosia also talks about the sexual bondage aspect of this knot, however, why this type of knot? Wouldn't any type of knot work? Even if it was for bondage purposes, there are not many who know how to tie it- and that's why I feel that this is important. Also for consideration is the fact that the diamond knot is used by boy scouts as well.
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By lawstudent1
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3 years ago
316 Posts

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Diamond knot
My opinion. Just another way of EARONS beating his chest and telling "The Man" I did it.
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By f1guyus
Member
3 years ago
1283 Posts
Re: Diamond knot and macrame

I agree with F1guyus. The diamond knot sent a message along the lines of "I am not your run-of-the-mill killer". Very few people know what a diamond knot is let alone how to tie it, and this includes sailors and soldiers. The knot doesn't have any practical value over similar ties such as the carrick bend, square knot, etc. It is just a very aesthetically pleasing knot.

However I do believe there is some significance to the knot's history itself. Lawstudent1 mentioned that the knot is used by Scouts. The diamond knot is a sort of trophy for scouts who receive the Wood Badge. Wood and nature themes were apparently very important to EAR/ONS. He bashed a couple about the head with a wooden fire log. He placed a piece of wood in between a dead woman's legs. He also left behind a knot that is associated with the Wood Badge.
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Edited by Cimmerian10, 3 years ago
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By Cimmerian10
Member
3 years ago
1000 Posts
Re: Diamond knot and macrame
From what I understand the Diamond Knot was only used once. It's a pretty intense knot having tried to tie one with some shoe laces myself. I think I accomplished about 75% before giving up. But it was still very sturdy. I wonder about the other types of knots that were used in the EAR crimes?
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By deadbolt
Member
3 years ago
225 Posts
Placed a piece of wood?
Why would you suggest he placed a piece of wood between the victims legs as opposed to the belief the the force of the blows fractured the wood and a piece landed between the victims legs. I find that to be an interesting statement Cimm, can you share why you state that? There is no evidence of that. g
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By guessting
Member
3 years ago
2043 Posts
Re: Diamond knot and macrame



A wood chip does not find itself buried underneath a bedsheet, in between a woman's legs by accident.

EAR/ONS also left wooden matches at the scenes of the crimes.
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Edited by Cimmerian10, 3 years ago
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By Cimmerian10
Member
3 years ago
1000 Posts
Re: Diamond knot and macrame

We know that Lyman and Charlene Smith were beaten to death with a wood log.

The FDLE report also says that a wood chip was found between the legs of Patrice Harrington. It may have accidentially fell there when the ONS missed the head of Keith Harrington and hit the wood headboard of the bed. But that seems unlikley to me, in particular if she was under the covers. it may have accidentially fell there if Patrice was struck with a wood object and it splintered. Or it could well have been placed there. The sexual symbolism of the placement between the legs is obvious. And we know the ONS used a wood object to kill at least once if not twice, and as Cimm notes left wood matches at several of the scenes.
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By akwilks
Member
3 years ago
1346 Posts
Show me the evidence
Cimm,
I might like to agree with you but you cannot speak to that unless you can show evidence of your statement. It might sound likely or possible but I would like to see what you have to support that statement. Have you viewed the crime scene photos? Have you spoken to a detective that told you that was factual? Are you one of the detectives that was there and this is how you can determine such a thing as factual?
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By guessting
Member
3 years ago
2043 Posts
Re: Diamond knot and macrame
Guessting - See my post above and read the FDLE report. It does state a wood chip was found between the legs of Patrice Harrington. Nobody can say for sure how it got there, but I speculate on what I think are the three most likely causes.
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By akwilks
Member
3 years ago
1346 Posts
Re: Diamond knot and macrame

ok ak.
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By guessting
Member
3 years ago
2043 Posts
People in connection with diamont knots
Marine, Climber, Scout leaders, military....
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By andythenatural
Member
3 years ago
52 Posts
diamond knot
For what its worth, and given the use of other symbols that have been mentioned, I think the diamond knot could be a cruel play on the saying 'diamonds are a girls best friend'.
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By alicianotorius
Member
3 years ago
102 Posts

[Drifter]

Diamond Knot Theory

In thinking about the diamond knot, it's occurred to me that the EAR/ONS may have used the knot functionally (as opposed to as part of fantasy). I can't remember why D'Ambrosia said in the FDLE Profile (and I'm too lazy to look it up). Following the timeline and the evolution of the ONS, one of the primary reasons that the EAR/ONS lost control of Goleta is because he switched his ligatures.

He couldn't use his trusty shoelaces as that would be an indication that the EAR was now in Goleta. The ligatures that he switched to proved to be less reliable. His victim(s) were able to loosen the bindings. Even Offerman was able to loosen his bindings. This, of course, surprised the EAR/ONS.

So, (not having seen the actual bindings - although there were photos shown on the MSNBC Investigates program) it has occurred to me that MAYBE the EAR/ONS used the diamond knot because it was a more reliable knot. He switched the type of ligatures again in Ventura and he was not certain that he couldn't rely on the new type of bindings that he was used.

So, I think that maybe the diamond knot was to ensure that the ligatures would not slip. I could be wrong on this but it's something to think about. The knot may have been functional.
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By Archangel76
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2 years ago
2159 Posts

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Dimond Knot could be a stronger knot

allaboutknots.blogspot.com/



There's a site that talks about various knots and their strenghts. The link is at the beginning of my post.



I think the diamond knot was used because it was more effective at keeping his victims bound.
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Edited by catch_him, 2 years ago
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By catch_him
Member
2 years ago
214 Posts
Yarbrough's Assessment
I reviewed the FDLE's Profile and also reviewed John Yarbrough's statements on the MSNBC Investigates program. The diamond knot does seem to have been used to effectively keep his victim's bound (as CH also suggested in the above post). It wasn't the EAR/ONS sending any additional message or tying a pretty bow for investigators to find. It was purely functional. There are photographs of the Smith's bound hands. I don't think the EAR/ONS wanted them to get out of the bindings the way that Offerman was able to loosen his.

Yarbrough suggests that the diamond knot may have also been part of fantasy. I think it was pure function based on the mishap in Goleta. We've seen the EAR/ONS evolve his M.O. time and again. If it was fantasy, he would have used it in Northern CA. Yarbrough believes that it may have been used in the other So Cal attacks (after Ventura).

Both the FDLE profile as well as the MSNBC Investigates program suggest that the EAR/ONS removed the ligatures (as well as the weapon) after a newspaper released the information about the diamond knot. To date, I have not been able to locate this article. The MSNBC Program shows a graphic overlay of the purported article.
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts
Re: Diamond Knot Theory
Where can i see the MSNBC investigates program on EAR/ONS Arch?
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By catch_him
Member
2 years ago
214 Posts
MSNBC Investigates
It rarely shows on MSNBC. If you PM me, I'll tell you where it is available.
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts
Diamond knot

I also wish we could find the origin of the article that mentioned the diamond knot in the Smith murders. We have determined that it did not print in any Ventura County paper and that is was possibly written by a reporter named Dulaney. The paper of origin might point to residence.

i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm241/portofleith-2008/diamondknot.jpg
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Edited by PortofLeith, 2 years ago
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By PortofLeith
Member
2 years ago
953 Posts
Re: Diamond Knot Theory

Consider the possibility that this article does not exist, and what you're seeing in the MSNBC special (captured in the image Portofleith posted) is merely a mock-up to provide a dramatic visual to accompany the script. I think this is likely the case.

The font, for one, doesn't look like a font that would have been used in a publication from that period; the letters are all pretty solid, without any of the wear associated with the vintage of such a material. There's none of the copy noise you typically see in microfilm reproductions either.

Also, there's a grammatical error ("Smith's" should be "Smiths").

"Dulaney" is likely either a made-up name, or perhaps someone associated with the production.
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By SpeakelOfEngrish
Member
2 years ago
1090 Posts
Mock up of an actual article

Speakel,

i am more inclined to believe that it is a mock up of an actual article. ONS didn't feel compelled to remove the Smith ligatures, even though it had been publicized that OM were bound. The fact that he completely removed the ligatures after the Smith publicity, suggests to me, that specific publicity about his beloved chinese decorator knot(diamond), caused him to remove the ligatures completely.

The FDLE supports this:

"It is likely that your offender followed the

media accounts of the murders and adapted his methods according to what was

disclosed to the public. It was disclosed that the victims had been bound and

struck with a log. Subsequent to this, the offender removed the ligatures and

blunt force instruments from the scenes.

We believe your offender altered the crime scenes in attempt to disguise"



Arch- I believe that he was already adept at using a variety of overhand knots which were quite secure. The fact that he bound the Smiths after death with the Chinese Decorator, suggests to me, that it was a flourishing touch of his fantasy. I don't recall the particular EAR case, but in one home, detectives found an overkill of ligatures- shoelaces, ties, and rope. I think when he had time to kill, he probably sat around knotting, which gave him a little "tie" to his crimes.




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By PortofLeith
Member
2 years ago
953 Posts
Diamond Knot Article

SOE,

The graphic overlay was accompanied by the contention that the EAR/ONS started removing the ligatures after the information about the diamond knot was made public. So, while the graphic overlay may have been a mock-up, the contention is not something that the producer's of the program made up. Someone told them that. As Port posted above, a similar contention is implied in the FDLE Profile.

So, if it was not publicity about the very intricate and damning knot, why did he removed the ligatures AND the murder weapon which is very risky on his part? (If he was ever stopped with those implements, it would have been game over. It would have made more sense to just leave them at the scene of the crime (as he had done in the previous crimes - excluding the firearm).

It is possible that the information was conveyed by way of a TV newscast. I have pointed out in the past that the town hall meeting info was conveyed via television as well as the shoelace information (from the Maggiore murders). Both pieces of informaion never made it into any newspaper article. As such, people question my memory.

I remember the Maggiore info specifically because at the time, I didn't know the EAR was using shoelaces on his victims and I remember wondering what the hell do shoelaces have to do with the EAR (back when I heard the info on Action News 13).

The tv newscasts would also mentioned the day when the EAR struck twice in the same 24 hour period. That is something that never made it into any newspaper article at the time. (It was mentioned in later articles).

Ultimately, there was an intervening event that caused another abrupt change in the EAR/ONS' M.O. Something happened that made him think that his leaving the ligatures and murder weapon could result in him being identified. The MSNBC Investigates program (and the FDLE Profile) says that it was publication of the ligatures. Whatever it was it occurred after Ventura and before Dana Point.
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Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts
Re: Diamond Knot Theory
Port- I strongly believe the diamond knot was purely functional. That is why he continued using that type of knot. In addition, since he most likely kept doing the same type of knot(diamond one) and it became public knowledge he started removing it.
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By catch_him
Member
2 years ago
214 Posts
Re: Re: Diamond Knot Theory
Posted By: catch_him

Port- I strongly believe the diamond knot was purely functional. That is why he continued using that type of knot. In addition, since he most likely kept doing the same type of knot(diamond one) and it became public knowledge he started removing it.

Catch Him,
There is no functionality beyond "symbolism" when a knot is tied after the victim is dead. If funtionality were the issue the man would be tied tighter than the woman.

From Cason series:

"One piece of rope cut to the length of 28 inches was draped across the bed. Fibers of an unknown origin were found on Lyman’s ankles. Charlene had been tied tighter than Lyman; the knot at her wrists was far more ornate. The rope used to tie her was slightly different than that used on Lyman. Her ligatures contained copper threads at their core. Neither showed significant bruising on the flesh under the ligatures, suggesting they had struggled little against their bonds or that the knots where tied at or shortly after their deaths."
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Edited by PortofLeith, 2 years ago
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By PortofLeith
Member
2 years ago
953 Posts
Re: Re: Re: Diamond Knot Theory
Posted By: PortofLeith
Posted By: catch_him

Port- I strongly believe the diamond knot was purely functional. That is why he continued using that type of knot. In addition, since he most likely kept doing the same type of knot(diamond one) and it became public knowledge he started removing it.

Catch Him,
There is no functionality beyond "symbolism" when a knot is tied after the victim is dead. If funtionality were the issue the man would be tied tighter than the woman.

From Cason series:

"One piece of rope cut to the length of 28 inches was draped across the bed. Fibers of an unknown origin were found on Lyman’s ankles. Charlene had been tied tighter than Lyman; the knot at her wrists was far more ornate. The rope used to tie her was slightly different than that used on Lyman. Her ligatures contained copper threads at their core. Neither showed significant bruising on the flesh under the ligatures, suggesting they had struggled little against their bonds or that the knots where tied at or shortly after their deaths."

The diamond knot may have had a symbolic message to it. However, the diamond knot is a stronger knot to bind someone with. Therefore, I believe function was the primary goal. I theorize that he tied them up when he first entered the house(to gain control). He possibly took off or loosened the bindings of his victims (while ALIVE) AFTER he hurt them badly enough to know that they couldn't escape. He would not let a situation like what happen at one of the Goleta scenes repeat itself where the man ran to the backyard and the woman hopped to the front yard.



The man may have not been tied as tight as the woman for several possible reasons. The rope used on lyman could have been thicker, so ONS may have felt that he did not need to tie a knot as ornate on him as he did on Charlene. Lymann may have been giving less resistance to ONS than Charlene(regardless of gender). That is why her rope may been tighter, more ornate etc than her husband lyman.
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Edited by catch_him, 2 years ago
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By catch_him
Member
2 years ago
214 Posts

[Drifter]

Dissemination of Case Information

After reading the Sacramento Magazine article "Unsolved Mystery" about the EAR/ONS in 2003, I went on-line to check to see what was being said about the EAR. I assumed that there would be several websites dedicated to the subject. To my dismay, there were no websites dedicated to the EAR case. The only place that the case was being actively discussed was here on the A&E "Cold Case Files" Discussion Forum.

I had not yet seen the CCF program on the ONS. There were several people here who were discussing the case, including JJ. When I joined in, I was one of the only people from Sacramento. I had the added benefit of having lived in the east area of Sacramento during the entire EAR hysteria. I was able to offer anecdotal experiences and observations.

Being one of the only people from Sacramento, I was inundated with questions about the EAR. At the time, I was working from memory. To assist me in answering questions, I went to the library to get copies of the old newspaper articles on the EAR. Consequently, I was being asked the same questions over and over again.

That is how the www.ear-ons.com website was born. It started off as a FAQ website. Anyone who wanted a basic understanding of the case could go there and get up to speed on the case. Additionally, I added an email link so that any witnesses could provide case tips and leads. And a lot have come in over the years.

During the past 34 years, the public has been fed disinformation and misinformation about this case. This is partly the reason that these cases have not been solved. So long as the case facts continue to be distorted, these cases will never see resolution. Ironically, I understand why the inaccurate case information was put out in the past. I can't say that I would have done anything different under the same circumstances. Hindsight is 20/20 (or so they say).

The one thing that I feel compelled to do is disseminate more accurate case information and clear up any misinformation or disinformation (as much as I can given that these are open, active investigations). Detective Larry Crompton's book "Suddent Terror" cleared up a lot of what was "held back" in the 1970's.

I am one of the few people on this board who is in a position to clear up any inaccuracies. Port & Guestting have probably surpassed me in that area. Dengas/dengas is the resident expert on Visalia and the Ransacker. I wish we had someone to clear up, SB, Ventura, Dana Point and Irvine. Clearing up inaccuracies is a fluid process. New information comes in which provides us with a new understanding (such as the Goleta DNA link). There is no other place on the web where this is being done. I truly wish there were some other place and that someone else was doing it. JJ's "Casebook of the Bedroom Killer" has a lot of useful information. However, there are a lot of inaccuracies on his website. There are a lot of inaccuracies on my website which I have not updated (because I probably should be updating not posting).

But here, on this forum, I can answer any questions and address any issues as best I can. I have had to scale back my participation and limit it to the annivesaries of the murder victims. I am doing this for the victims and their families. I feel an obligation to keep the case facts as accurate as they can be under the circumstances with the hope that one day, we will get that one tip that will lead to the identity of the EAR/ONS.

That is my motivation for being here and also my motivation for insisting that we keep the case facts as accurate as they can be so that we can get the fullest understanding of this case. Misinformation and disinformation have impeded this investigation for the last 3 decades. I can't imagine that more misinformation and disinformation (and in some cases, distortions) will produce results any different than what we've had since 1976. Let's give the truth a try.

It is my firm belief that a more accurate understanding of this case will lead to the resolution that most of us here are seeking and striving towards.
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Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76
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2 years ago
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Accuracy of VR information

Up until I corresponded with Lateforlunch, NightDriver, and Ista, my knowledge of the VR was quite limited. I had my memory, newspaper articles, and a POI. Arch, like you, I started at the library (1983) and then I talked to others who lived through the VR. After feeling frustrated with our local LE, I googled "Visalia Ransacker" the results led me to your site where LFL had just posted, "Does anyone know anything about the Visalia Ransacker?"

With the help of the above mentioned posters, your web site, Jj's site, and other posters, I know so much more now than I knew in 1983, however I am still frustrated with our local LE. I remind myself that the Visalia ransacker wasn't just a ransacker; he murdered Claude Snelling. The locals can't dispel pertinent information.

I pray nightly that there will be a resolution to the VR and the EAR/ONS, whether they are one and the same, or not. Periodically I hear God saying to me, "Be still and know that I am God." It will happen in His timing. We are His instruments.
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By dengas
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2 years ago
966 Posts
Added Perspective
dengas,

You have the added perspective of having lived in Visalia at the time that the Ransacker was active. Having someone who can put everything into it's proper context is extremely vital. Just as I am familiar with Rancho Cordova in the 70's. In know where the Mather Auto Drive-In used to be. I know that there was an empty field across West La Loma. Looking at a map today, you get a completely different understanding from the case.

Thank you so much for mentioning Prof. Claude Snelling. He sometimes gets forgotten as we get into the minutiae of the EAR/ONS and Maggiore case. I should probably add him to the "Never Forget the Victims" banner on the site.

Amen to "we are His instruments" and that it will happen in His timing.
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By Archangel76
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2 years ago
2159 Posts
Crompton's book

Arch, I remember you posting that Crompton's book was only 50% of the story and that the other 50% was being held back. Do you know what that other 50% is? And if so, what aspects does it have to deal with?

Also the EAR Facebook site has been nice for the common joe to read, instead of having to scroll through hundreds of posts on here.
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Edited by AlexA, 2 years ago
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By AlexA
Member
2 years ago
46 Posts
Re: God's Timing
Agree, but once in a while he has to inspire somebody to pick up the phone.
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By f1guyus
Member
2 years ago
1265 Posts
Re: Crompton's book
Posted By: AlexA

Arch, I remember you posting that Crompton's book was only 50% of the story and that the other 50% was being held back. Do you know what that other 50% is? And if so, what aspects does it have to deal with?

Also the EAR Facebook site has been nice for the common joe to read, instead of having to scroll through hundreds of posts on here.
AlexA,

The other 50% really deals with the Southern CA cases. There are many, many things that we simply do not know (and really cannot ask). Colleen Cason's article "Silent Witness" highlighted some of that information. The canvassing of the neighborhoods after the murders were committed would produce the most useful information.

Ironically, I think the SoCal cases will produce the least amount of information necessary in identifying the EAR/ONS. He was on top of his game (in terms of protecting his identity) and he spread his crimes out far enough to keep LE from comparing notes (when it would have done the most good).

If the DNA link was not made, we would still be debating if those crimes were even committed by the EAR/ONS much like LE did back in the 1980's. Similar to the EAR A/B debate here on this board (before SB linked those cases by DNA).
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By Archangel76
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2 years ago
2159 Posts
Re: Dissemination of Case Information

abc
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Edited by guessting, 2 years ago
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By guessting
Member
2 years ago
2045 Posts
So. Cal
Arch, we know a lot now, its just that LE does not want us posting anything on this board. Suffice to say that the Sanchez / Domingo match ruled out Glasby (who died before the Cruz murder). Also, S/D, O/M and HH all occurred very close together (within a half-mile radius).
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By jgg2009
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2 years ago
58 Posts
so. Cal
Have you heard directly from LE that they don't want us posting anything on this board? Just curious, because our locals almost scoffed when I introduced them to someone I was communicating with that I had met on this board.
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By dengas
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2 years ago
966 Posts
Re: So. Cal
Posted By: jgg2009
Arch, we know a lot now, its just that LE does not want us posting anything on this board. Suffice to say that the Sanchez / Domingo match ruled out Glasby (who died before the Cruz murder). Also, S/D, O/M and HH all occurred very close together (within a half-mile radius).

I also heard that Glasby had his DNA checked (maybe via a family member).

Because the Southern CA cases are still actively being investigated, there is a lot of new information that has come from those cases that should not be posted. When the investigators have something they want to share (such as the DNA connection) they will release the information. That is the way it should be. It would be different if they were not actively investigating the cases.

I still remember when Feinstein released some holdback information in the Night Stalker case. Ramirez got rid of his tennis shoes and murder weapon. So we do have to be careful. Of course, these are 30 year old cases. At some point releasing more information can help rather than hurt such as the FBI erecting billboards and a website to nab the "East Coast Rapist".

There is a fine line to walk but we know what hasn't worked. The FBI went hi-tech and another scumball is off the streets.


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Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76
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2 years ago
2159 Posts
What LE Doesn't Want.
Criticism. From anybody. Not too different from the rest of us. The real problemis what BilnkyRed said on the old board. When this guy is ID'ed people all over the state of California are going to slap their heads and say "Why didn't I see that?" And his identity may embarrass somebody who was brought info about a suspect and said "Naa, not him, work on this. DON'T ARGUE WITH ME,GET OUT AND GO TO WORK." That's what the FBI SAC told two of his field agents about getting a warrant to search one of the 9-11 perps harddrive prior to 9-11.
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By f1guyus
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2 years ago
1265 Posts
Nothing Succeeds like Success...
LE (and Presidents, politicians and military leaders) will be criticized no matter what they do. Hindsight is always 20/20. Looking at the mistakes made in the Riggins/Gonsalves case, no one really dwells on them now that the creep Hirschfield has been identified and kept behind bars. No one is going to dwell on the mistakes once the EAR/ONS is identified, including me. It will be time to look forward not backward.

The only reason any of us are looking backward right now is in an attempt to see what was missed during the original investigation. There was plenty. We're hoping to find something that will lead us to the EAR/ONS, an ignored tip, a lead that was not followed up or a suspect who was cleared who should not have been cleared or a suspect who was never cleared.

I am so looking forward to getting the EAR/ONS behind us.
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts

[Drifter]

Dog Killer

Was EAR ONS also a dog killer? Sudden Terror outlines the dog stabbing incident around the time of the HH attack.

Note the neighbor's observations about the sidewalk and bridge blood and the read the last paragraph of the Domingo Sanchez article.



www.keyt.com/news/local/Serial-Killer-Cold-Case-Linked-Locally-121332969.html



i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm241/portofleith-2008/dogdomingo-1.jpg


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By PortofLeith
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2 years ago
953 Posts

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Re: Dog Killer

I think it is more likely that EARONS killed dogs than him bringing dogs to the scenes with him. There has been talk that the dogs were not brought along but rather lived in the areas of these killings. There were never any dog footprints in any of the homes. g
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Edited by guessting, 2 years ago
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By guessting
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2 years ago
2045 Posts
Anyone know?
In the Psychopath article, there is mention of a case in Ventura county in May 1980 with an unmarried couple? Is there, in fact,such a case? Or, as usual, do they have their facts skewed, actually referencing the Smiths?
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By Arbed
Member
2 years ago
278 Posts
Re: Re: Dog Killer
Posted By: guessting

I think it is more likely that EARONS killed dogs than him bringing dogs to the scenes with him. There has been talk that the dogs were not brought along but rather lived in the areas of these killings. There were never any dog footprints in any of the homes. g
So, there is no actual evidence that the dog was inside the O/M or S/D residences? Please provide some clarification on this dog issue, if possible.
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By SpeakelOfEngrish
Member
2 years ago
1090 Posts
It appears to be an Error

Arbed,
The 1980 killings known to be EARONS, were, 3/13/80 Lyman and Charlene Smith and 8/19/80 Patrice and Keith Harrington. They said, "unmarried" and both the Smith and Harrigton's were married. I am not sure who they are referring to. g
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Edited by guessting, 2 years ago
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By guessting
Member
2 years ago
2045 Posts
Re: Dog Killer

From the mouth of a detective..."there were no footprints in the homes". It does not prove anything for sure, but it is a fact. Could of been his dog..Might not of been his dog..I don't know! So in answer to your question, no (dog) prints in O/M or D/S houses. g
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Edited by guessting, 2 years ago
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By guessting
Member
2 years ago
2045 Posts
Re: Dog Killer
If there was no dog, this removes the oddness of ONS returning to Goleta and further removes any necessary connection to the area....

Unless the guy seen with the dog on the night of D/S was ONS.
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By erikdavid5111
Member
2 years ago
556 Posts
Re: Dog Killer
Thanks, G. I figured that was probably an error. Not surprising... I love how for years the newspapers reported no sexual assaults in many of the cases as well. ( EAR---no sexual assault. There is an oxymoron.)
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By Arbed
Member
2 years ago
278 Posts
Dog prints were outside the homes in question.

Guessting says the detective says no dog was "in" the homes but according to Sudden Terror (pg. 438) dog prints were found "on the patio" of O/M along with a plastic bag containing turkey scraps and bones.

Along with the dog paw prints, shoe prints of the same shape, design and size were found in the patio that matched shoe prints found at the failed H/H attack.

The same night as the Offerman/Manning murders, homeowners returned to their Windsor Court home and saw a man in their living room window. The man ran out the back and jumped over their fence into the elementary school behind them. They went inside to find their little poodle savagely beaten to death. (pg. 436)


Port posted a KEYT news account and interview with a neighbor of S/D stating bloody dog prints were seen leading away from the S/D home and on the footbridge over the nearby creek. My question is why were the dog prints bloody. Was the dog injured or did the dog step in the blood of the victims?

The night of the D/S murders a neighbor saw a man standing behind a large tree at approximately 9:45 p.m. Another neighbor stated that he and his wife were walking in the neighborhood at approximately 10:00 p.m. when they saw a man following them. At one point he was approximately 6 to 10' behind them. The subject was young, 5'11", SLENDER WITH BLOND NECK LENGTH HAIR (pg. 445) (I note that there is no mention of a dog on these previous two sightings.) At 11:00 p.m. a mother and daughter were jogging in the area when they saw a white male standing on the sidewalk behind the Domingo residence. The man appeared to be in his twenties or early thirties, 5'10" with neatly cut blond hair. The subject had a GERMAN SHEPARD DOG with him. (Did he go and get the dog between sightings?)

pg. 446 Approximately one week before H/H one of the neighbors on Berkely Road near S/D were contacted by a man stating that the previous evening of Sept 24th, his dog ran into a neighbor's yard and returned bleeding badly. (I think it is probable that EAR/ONS was in that back yard and stabbed the man's dog.)

On more question. All these people saw someone, undoubtedly EAR/ONS, was any sketch made of the suspect with these people's help?
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Edited by Sandia, 2 years ago
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By Sandia
Member
2 years ago
1382 Posts
Did S/D bullet match O/M bullet?

Port, I noticed something in the articles you posted. It stated 3 different weapons were used. First assault (H/H?) involved a knife. Offerman/Manning a gun, Sanchez/Domingo a gun and some sort of blunt force instrument. The article stated that Greg Sanchez was shot at least once and no bullet was recovered during the autopsy and that upon further investigation the bullet would likely be recovered from inside the house and would be important in connecting S/D with O/M.

Big question: They must have found the bullet, did it match?

Another thing: One article said there was no sexual attack, yet the other article said spermatoza was recovered. Could the answer to this seeming conflict of statements be that EAR/ONS masturbated only?
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Edited by Sandia, 2 years ago
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By Sandia
Member
2 years ago
1382 Posts
Sandia
Nice work on the dog issue!
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By ladyofthelake
Member
2 years ago
209 Posts
Dog prints were outside the homes in question.
Thanks, Lady. *^_^*
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By Sandia
Member
2 years ago
1382 Posts
Re: Did S/D bullet match O/M bullet?
Posted By: Sandia

Port, I noticed something in the articles you posted. It stated 3 different weapons were used. First assault (H/H?) involved a knife. Offerman/Manning a gun, Sanchez/Domingo a gun and some sort of blunt force instrument. The article stated that Greg Sanchez was shot at least once and no bullet was recovered during the autopsy and that upon further investigation the bullet would likely be recovered from inside the house and would be important in connecting S/D with O/M.

Big question: They must have found the bullet, did it match?

Another thing: One article said there was no sexual attack, yet the other article said spermatoza was recovered. Could the answer to this seeming conflict of statements be that EAR/ONS masturbated only?
I also think he masturbated only, the recent DNA link said something like there was semen found on some bedding and another quirky thing is during the H/H attack it is said EAR was fantasising and touching his clothing as he ran the flash light over the woman`s body. I think the reporting of the lack of a sexual assault could be in reference to lack of evidence of sexual peneration of a victim but I suppose that would not have been on EARs agenda after discharging firearms
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By DanCartell
Member
2 years ago
683 Posts
Re: Dog Killer
We have no idea how long ONS spent in any of these victims homes. Reading Sudden Terror, the scenario we see over and over and over is EAR straddling the woman from behind and having her masturbate him (to the extent even possible with tightly bound hands) until he either climaxed or went off to do something else or commenced a rape. This is highly likely to have happened at the O/M and D/S scenes. Therefore the lack of an "actual" rape occurring is hardly out of the ordinary, especially when you factor in the lack of cooperation of Offerman/Sanchez which resulted in ONS firing his gun. Domingo/Manning may have been examined for rape and no evidence was present, therefore the sexual assault angle was probably foolishly dismissed. An error which led to many years of wasteful speculation that these attacks were not the work of EAR/ONS. It seems that when the bedding from the D/S scene was finally examined with a fine toothed comb, lo and behold, there is sperm evidence!
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By erikdavid5111
Member
2 years ago
556 Posts

[Drifter]

Don't have a CLUE

One thing that haunts me whenever I am awake in the middle of the night (which is often) is that I understand what went wrong with the initial EAR investigation. In short, the SCSD was not prepared to deal with an intelligent, organized "commuter" serial offender. He thought like they did, prepared in advance and took calculated risks.

But Inv. Pool and Heaney did an extensive investigation. It is beyond me how they managed to miss the EAR/ONS. They rightfully determined that he committed the Goleta cases. And they put the DNA pieces of the puzzle together. Pool also was instrumental in getting Prop 69 on the books.

So, the real question for all of us is HOW did the EAR/ONS managed to stay off of Inv. Pool and Heaney's radar screen? Whenever we would find a "viable suspect" (this is before I started formulating a base criminal profile), it usually turned out that Pool had already looked at and cleared that suspect.

So, how is it that the EAR/ONS continues to remain off EVERYONE'S radar? What are we missing? Instead of looking for someone with a paper trail, is it the opposite? Did the EAR/ONS purposely not leave a paper trail and that is why no one can find him?

Is it possible for him to have changed his identity? Was that part of his "planned exile"? If so, is that the "type" of person we should be looking for? Someone who just "dropped off the map"? And if so, when did he purposely drop off the map and how can we determine that?
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By Archangel76
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2 years ago
2159 Posts

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My thoughts

I blame this issue partly on the neighbors, law enforcment agencies, and the state. Neighbors often heard noises, saw supicous activities, heard screams etc and often did not report them and the ones that did report things, did so too late. Law enforcment agencies weren't comumnicating between each other like they should have. Irvine pd, SBSD, ventura police, and OCSD wanted to keep things tight lipped from the public as to not scare the people in the communites. In addition, these upscale communities weren't eager for negative publicity. Now after DNA has linked one man to all these crimes, Law enforcment agencies are communicating better with each other. However, the state of California is not putting in the funding and the resoucres needed to shed more light on these cold cases. The Legal system in Cali gives jailhouse criminals way too many rights. Example they overturned a proposition that would make it madatory that every person in jail give blood to check DNA.
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Edited by catch_him, 2 years ago
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By catch_him
Member
2 years ago
214 Posts
Planned exile
Could that mean his planned exile from Sacramento? from California? from the country? Could that mean he was "not" planning an exile and was trying to throw LE off track? Also, he was so reckless, banging gates etc. etc. he did so many reckless things I won't even attempt to mention them all here, everyone knows, it is incredible he wasn't caught. It is hard to catch serial killers that have no connection to their victim or the neighborhood but he repeated offenses in the same neighborhoods, it's not like he struck once and then left the area.
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By Sandia
Member
2 years ago
1382 Posts
I suspect that ............

when EAR talks of his planned exile he maybe referring to his " leaving the game" i.e. retiring from his activities.

I think EAR stayed off the radar screen because of multiple factors:>
1.) He was never a suspect back in the original investigation and his name is not on the files hence when Det Pool and Heaney went through the files meticulously ...........
2.) if he had a criminal record or was arrested it was probably when he was a minor and he probably got off lightly and the record has been expunged +
3.) A major catastrophe in this case was the purging of files related to this case, it could be that his name or some vital detail was lost when this happened
4.) There is probably a paper trail of him, its just that since he targeted individuals not connected from him and probably travelled far to commit crimes and probably moved residences every few years this makes it harder to correctly pinpoint his residence ; What I feel we are all missing and desperately need to figure out here is the correct information regarding were VR/EAR/ONS was staying when he committed his crimes- if we can figure this bit out we will be closing in on this guy.This piece of information could also help with those who have POIs.


When SBSD detectives in 1981 came out with the suggestion that the murders were related they were spot on but Ventura and Irvine PD doubted this= that was a big opportunity lost . I firmly believe the Goleta connection to this case is what could have and what can still blow this case wide open; if people in Goleta had been told that an individual linked to the Sacramento area was responsible for the crimes someone could have given info regarding anyone with connections to both areas; considering that Goleta ain`t that big there are only a few if not a few dozen people who would fit this description hence there is a high probability someone could have led LE to EAR or his family/friends. This can possibly still be done..............Another thing that was missed regarding this case was that it was not featured on AMW , if it had it would have got nationwide exposure and people who may know something related to this case but are no longer resident in California could have provided leads , if local news stations run this story its very good but people living outside these areas are missed out altogether .

I like the idea of looking for someone who dropped off the map ,...... There are possibly four time frames he may dropped off the map
(1.) after the Janelle Cruz murder (2.) was it after the 1991 phone call? (3.) somewere in between 2 and 3 ( 4.) afetr the 1981 murders when the press and SBSD were speculating about a link in the murders.......
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Edited by DanCartell, 2 years ago
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By DanCartell
Member
2 years ago
683 Posts
My thoughts.....

Some key mistakes authorities made in not catching EAR-ONS.....


Sacramento - They didn't publicize the things that were important, things that could have helped jog someone's memory. For example, that belt buckle EAR wore...a drawing of that should have been put on the front page of every newspaper in the city and on the evening news. They could have also made public some of the stranger items that were stolen from the victims (although I suspect EAR threw much of those out.) Instead they released info like the dishes trick, something that would not have helped the public determine his identity. That should have been held back for linkage purposes. More importantly and this was the best chance to catch the EAR, Sacramento authorities should have heavily publicized that he was in the Sanata Barbara/Goleta area when they realized this. Even though, SB LE did not want to cooperate, the Sacramento investigators---once they realized it was a sure thing that EAR was there---did not need SB cooperation to get the word out in Sac-Town that EAR was in Goleta. Someone would have put it together, someone knew him in Sacramento and would have realized he had relocated. Instead there was like 2 articles, both in Southern California newspapers if I recall correctly. This new should have been breaking news on the news and plastered on the first page of every paper in the city and on billboards. Nevertheless, I strongly belive at some point, EAR's name was brought to Sacramento LE. Isn't it reported that over 5,000 suspects were investigated? Someone correctly called in the EAR, a boyfriend, friend, brother, cousin, co-worker, fellow military member, whatever, they called him in with some suspicion. Either that or the EAR was picked up for something minor, trespassing or minor vandalism....and then let go. If it's the former, he's still on the list. They just probably didn't investigate all of those 5,000 suspects enough. Too many. Arch, is the list of suspects still out there. I have to believe they cross-referenced all of them with where they went in life, where they lived, went to school, worked, etc.

As for Pool/Heaney, yes it is surprising they didn't find him because it seems that for a number of years it was his full-time job. I think perhaps he focused too much on the prison aspect. I think it's pretty clear EAR was NOT in prison between July '81 and May '86. If he was, Pool would have found him. Or rather, he was not in prison or locked up for the duration. He may have served a few months for assault or something like that. Also, I don't think he's a lifer for a crime committed following Cruz. Otherwise Pool would have found him by now. It is possible he served a little time after Cruz but got out before mandatory DNA testing for felons was required. In any event, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he never served any hard time at all. How strongly did Sacramento authorities investigate VR suspects. Arch, on a scale of 1-10 how sure are you that EAR was also VR? That should be an even bigger help in catching him. You've got someone who lived in Visalia, Sacramento/CCC, Santa Barbara/Goleta, and then OC/Irvine in a 12 year span. Do they still have suspect lists? Who is still investigating these crimes?

As for dropping off the map, it wouldn't surprise me at all if it was the complete opposite, if he was living in Irvine, smack dab in the same location or Witthhun/Cruz right now. We've seen this before. The Grim Sleeper, Lonnie Franklin lived in the middle of his killing zone, in the same house all these years. The BTK also was still living in Wichita, where he committed all those murders. Kinda different but Whitey Bulger, the FBI's most wanted fugitive after Bin Laden was not living in some exotic location in Europe or something but rather right in one of the most obvious places one could find him, Santa Monica, CA, a couple of miles from the FBI's LA field office. I will not be shocked if the EAR is living a mile from Janelle Cruz's old location right now.
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Edited by Troy_McClure, 2 years ago
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By Troy_McClure
Member
2 years ago
36 Posts
Purging of Records

If there was any suspicion that EAR was responsible for the Maggiore killings I find it absolutely incomprehensible that any records relating to the investigation would have been thrown away. In fact it is incomprehensible that these records would be disposed of in any case. EAR terrorized Northern California for several years and was the best known serial rapist in my memory. Not only that but I'm thinking members of LE were making the connection to the SoCal murders before DNA positively linked the cases. I can think of a couple of reasons but neither of them reflect well on Law Enforcement.
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Edited by f1guyus, 2 years ago
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By f1guyus
Member
2 years ago
1265 Posts
Dont have a clue
Arch great point. These are the things we need to collect in one centralized database and work with. Most of us have great ideas and could have been detectives had we chosen that path in life. Not to demean any LE, but it's about being organized and following a process. Some have intuition. Thats what separates the best from the great ones. I know we have it on this board. Lots of smart people with great theories. We need to be able to track those down. Sorry to sound like a broken record. We need this and that, but it's thev truth. Great ideas and great minds will prevail.
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By Smitty2011
Member
2 years ago
107 Posts
Re: Planned exile
Posted By: Sandia
Could that mean his planned exile from Sacramento? from California? from the country? Could that mean he was "not" planning an exile and was trying to throw LE off track? Also, he was so reckless, banging gates etc. etc. he did so many reckless things I won't even attempt to mention them all here, everyone knows, it is incredible he wasn't caught. It is hard to catch serial killers that have no connection to their victim or the neighborhood but he repeated offenses in the same neighborhoods, it's not like he struck once and then left the area.
Sandia,

That is the question...what did he mean by "planned exile". Right now, I don't have an answer.
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts
MY thoughts
Dan excellent points. He may be in irvine now. This is why we need to investigate all quality ideas. Think about it, most of you on this board know more about this case than everyone in the world. Together I believe you have it right. We just need to figure out what ideas are right. Sorry for the rhetoric, but after reading almost every post for two years, it was time to chime in. I know some of these ideas are dead on. Goleta, a key. Three toed dog. What weird aspects. I think he has a pile of souvenirs somewhere. Drivers licenses, riings, etc. Wh take them only to throw them away. We all save souvenirs of times in our life.sure maybe he found peace and lived a clean life and disposed of these items, but they would be as dear to him as your family photos or scrapbook would be to most of us. Top of your game,you don't throw away. Hope that dent trivialize this. My apologies if so.
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By Smitty2011
Member
2 years ago
107 Posts
The Visalia Question

Troy McClure askes: Arch, on a scale of 1-10 how sure are you that EAR was also VR?

Troy,

I am still 50/50 on the EAR being the VR. So I guess that would be a 5. I have always said it seems like the cases should be connected. But there just is not enough of a signature there for me. The investigators are "99% sure". So, there you go. Unfortunately, they don't know who the VR is any more than they know who the EAR/ONS is.

Good point about the EAR/ONS "hiding in plain sight". If that is true, he should be found via data mining. So, we can only hope he was that stupid because it will only be a matter of time before he is identified.
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Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts

[Drifter]

Which Jurisdictions Have EAR/ONS DNA on File?

Pardon me if this is common knowledge to everyone but me, but which jurisdictions have EAR/ONS DNA profiles? In other words, if I were to magically obtain the DNA of a POI and I wanted to have it compared to known EAR DNA, who should I talk to? (And to those curious folks out there, I am not talking about JonKat's POI. I have another POI that I am looking at.) Thanks!
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By DougFrench
Member
2 years ago
79 Posts

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Jurisdictions
Orange County, Ventura County and Contra Costa County are the counties who retained DNA and made the initial linkage between the Northern and Southern California crimes, with Orange county taking the lead. orange county would be your best contact.
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By PortofLeith
Member
2 years ago
954 Posts
Re: Which Jurisdictions Have EAR/ONS DNA on File?
Thanks for the info. I do not have DNA yet on this POI (and I need more evidence before I can offer any swabs to LE without looking like a kook). If I determine it is worth pursuing, I can get DNA from this POI rather easily.
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By DougFrench
Member
2 years ago
79 Posts
Re: Which Jurisdictions Have EAR/ONS DNA on File?

DF,
If I were you, I would cross reference the new POI with those jurisdictions to insure this "new" individual has not already been cleared. No point in getting DNA if it is already in the data base. If you are still working with Shelby and co. they should be able to assist you in this. g
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Edited by guessting, 2 years ago
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By guessting
Member
2 years ago
2045 Posts
Re: Which Jurisdictions Have EAR/ONS DNA on File?
Thanks, Guessting. I am sure that this possible POI (I cannot even call him a true POI yet) is not in the system.
One more question for you regulars out there: I read somewhere that the EAR was suspected to be rather "methodical" in his normal life. This was posted as part of a suspect profile somewhere. Does anyone recall this? I would have thought that it was on EAR_ONS (dot) com, but I cannot find it there. Thanks in advance.
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By DougFrench
Member
2 years ago
79 Posts
FDLE Profile of EARS

Doug- The FDLE profile found at JJ's site, gives the information about what LE thinks ONS might be like. Unfortunately this document was created before the ONS crimes were linked to EAR.


sites.google.com/site/jjmcgr/documents
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Edited by PortofLeith, 2 years ago
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By PortofLeith
Member
2 years ago
954 Posts
Mr. DougFrench

Hello, Mr. DougFrench, sir.


I don't know if this is what you're looking for, but... Mrs. Leslie D'Ambrosia did a
Psychological Profile of The Original Night Stalker... you can find it here:

PSYCHOLOGICAL PROFILE OF ONS
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By AaronTimones
Member
2 years ago
1103 Posts
Re: Which Jurisdictions Have EAR/ONS DNA on File?
Thanks, guys.. The link from Aaron Timones is the one I was thinking of. And, PortofLeith, I had never seen the links that you posted - thanks for the new info.
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By DougFrench
Member
2 years ago
79 Posts
Re: Re: Which Jurisdictions Have EAR/ONS DNA on File?
Posted By: DougFrench
Thanks, Guessting. I am sure that this possible POI (I cannot even call him a true POI yet) is not in the system.
One more question for you regulars out there: I read somewhere that the EAR was suspected to be rather "methodical" in his normal life. This was posted as part of a suspect profile somewhere. Does anyone recall this? I would have thought that it was on EAR_ONS (dot) com, but I cannot find it there. Thanks in advance.
Hi DF,
By the way has there ever been any findings regarding JK's POI. I am just curious. g
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By guessting
Member
2 years ago
2045 Posts

[Drifter]

Drifter from hell

He done his homework,mapped out his escape routes,where to park.. who was alone .., even if they had a sister..?.what time people where gone .when?? He was so close To .Jannelle,What grabbed his fancey so to speak??I appologize For the candor
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By JWBTXS
Member
3 years ago
337 Posts

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He had done his homework

JWBTXS,

Many posters think that there is something atypical in ONS murder of Janelle Cruz. In fact, the most atypical crime location is that of the Harringtons. They lived in a gated community with a high stucco fence and manned security gates. The only people with a view of the Harrington home, besides immediate neighbors within the Niguel Shores development, might have been golfers at a high point on the adjacent course or people living at higher elevation than the Niguel Shores homes with telescopes. The Goleta neighborhood and the Irvine neighborhood are more in tune with the Sacramento scenes. They are walled communitites without entrance and exit points manned by guards.

There was new construction taking place in Laguna Niguel- the weekend before the Harrington's murders, several open houses were being held at various developments. But again, Niguel Shores wasn't open to the public.

What do Janelle Cruz, Patrice Harrington and Manuela Witthuhn have in common besides beauty? Santa Ana Hospital.

Has anyone noticed in Crompton's book the number of victims who were either college students (one majoring in nursing) or in one case the children of a doctor? Were other victims associated with any particular major at Cal State Sac?
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By PortofLeith
Member
3 years ago
954 Posts
Construction
Under DRIFTER I wrote and gave my opinion and the reasoning behind it as to why I thought EAR might have worked in construction. The police in the initial rape investigations looked pretty hard and found no common link amongst the victims. Since EAR targeted upper scale neighborhoods espcecially during the killings it would be possible just on statistics that he would have encounter higher numer of professionals especially in the medical field. Do you know the name of the construction company that was working at the time of the Laguna Nigual attack??
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By conquistador1521
Member
3 years ago
388 Posts
Construction Laguna Niguel

Conquistador,
Here are a few of the tracts/developers with open houses in August 1980 Laguna Niguel. Many of these homes were designed by a Goleta architectural firm- Berkus Designs, including the Ventura neighborhood where the Smith's lived, hence an explanation for the Smith and Harrington homes having the same floor plan. There were also two large resorts constructed around this time(more research needed to determine the year) which are both just blocks from the Harrington residence- the St. Regis Monarch Bay and The Ritz Carlton Laguna.

i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm241/portofleith-2008/housedev.jpg

We also have the intriguing response from the late David Witthuhn who said that they frequently dealt with a contractor to correct problems on their home and that many new homes were under construction in the area. There is also an unverified source that said Offerman had lunch with a contractor a few days before his death.


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Edited by PortofLeith, 3 years ago
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By PortofLeith
Member
3 years ago
954 Posts
Construction worker
Wasn't there a bloody motorcycle glove found at a house under construction which was close to the Harringtons two days after the crime?
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By lawstudent1
Member
3 years ago
316 Posts
Re: Drifter from hell

Great posts Port,
I was not aware of Berkus Designs or the Witthuhn statement about the contractor. Interesting. I also find the medical connection interesting. I agree that it seemed that ONS had to go out of his way to commit the crimes against the Harringtons'. Since Keith and Patrice had strong connections to Irvine it seems obvious as to where ONS's headquarters were at the time. Furthermore, it is also intriguing that the Harringtons', Witthuhn, and Cruz all had some connection with Santa Ana Hospital. Great posts - keep it up.
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Edited by lawstudent1, 3 years ago
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By lawstudent1
Member
3 years ago
316 Posts
Berkus designed Witthuhn and Cruz homes also



Orange County Register October 26, 1980

Woodside Project
Popular In IrvineAppreciating a good thing when they see it, 144 homeshoppers strolled through Woodside/Northwood the firstweekend of sales of phase one at the newest Irvinecommunity. Observers were instantly able to attest to thepopularity of the project recently offered by the J.M.Peters Company of Newport Beach.{Priced from $195,000 the new single-family detachedfour-bedroom homes are served by two and three bath'areas and are offered in five floor plans designed byCordell Ross & Associates of Irvine and The Berkus Groupof Santa Ana."Woodside offers all of the amenities sought after byhome shoppers in the city of Irvine. In this innovativelyplanned community, schools, shopping, the University ofCalifornia at Irvine, easy access to major freeways, and amassive network of businesses are but minutes away,"said Tom Hover, vice president of marketing for the J.M.Peters Company.Interiors of Woodside range from 2,327 to 3,068 squarefeet and feature skylights, ceramic wood parquet entry-,ways, as well as wall-to-wall carpeting throughout, slopedceilings, and hand-finished oak cabinetry.vj- Lavishly appointed kitchens feature the very latest in'booking appliances including Jenn-Air tri-convertiblecook-tops, deluxe built-in microwave ovens with dual selfcleaningovens and Nutone food processors. Rich oakcabinetry adds texture while hand-set ceramic tile kitchencounter-tops provide color and beauty to the meal preparationcenters.Tasteful exteriors with split cedar shake or tile roofs areaccentuated by bronze anodized finish on all windows,sliding doors, and skylights. Custom designed, solid oakentry doors with brass hardware add one more touch ofclass to the spacious Woodside homes in North wood.To see the vignetted models of Woodside Northwood inthe convenience-oriented city of Irvine, take the Santa Anaor San Diego Freeways to the Culver Drive exit, go northon Culver to Bryan Avenue, turn right on Bryan toColonial, then left on Colonial to Woodside/Northwood.The sales trailer is now open daily from 10 a.m. to 6 p.m.
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Edited by PortofLeith, 3 years ago
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By PortofLeith
Member
3 years ago
954 Posts
Laguna Niguel Angle
Good work PortofLeith. I sent an email about a week and a half ago to the Orange County Register, detailing the Irvine angle to the attacks. I encourage other to send emails the newspaper as well. This Berkus Group is next on my list. I think this is extemely interesting...
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By conquistador1521
Member
3 years ago
388 Posts
The female victims......

particularly those who were killed have a few resemblaces between some of them , maybe he had resolved to stop and then when he encountered Janelle she reminded him of one of the other victims and then he swung into action so to speak
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By DanCartell
Member
2 years ago
683 Posts

[Drifter]

EAR age in 1974
Based on witness accounts and other info the age of the EAR varies widely from 18-30 during his crime spree. I still believe the key to locating him is by pinning down his age and searching the immediate area around the initial crimes. Based on the composites posted by arch recently I would assume he is around 20-22 during 1975. If this is the case, then he would have attended high school from 1968-1972. The Vietnam war draft ended in 1973. He could have avoided the draft if he was a full time college student. What high school would you have attended if you lived in the vicinity of the first few attacks and what is the most likely college ? If he was older than my assumed age, perhaps he was drafted after high school and served a stint in the military. Perhaps this would explain his physical fitness. Return from the war agile and in good shape or from just being in the service. Are there records of individuals who lived in this area and were drafted ? I also believe the subject had some college background or was at least a bright high school student. His brazenness leads me to believe he would have been someone who was a fairly confident in their physical abilities but had trouble with the girls. This was a sexually charged era and maybe his small penis was mocked by a lover or maybe the trouble with the girls was only his inner feeling of inferiority. Some ideas. I haven't had much time to continue my research due to time constraints but maybe some of you can work with any of these thoughts and make some headway. Feedback appreciated.
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By Smitty2011
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2 years ago
107 Posts

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Re: Re: EAR age in 1974
Posted By: Peterlee
EAR/ONS is middle class or higher. This guy did not need to pawn or fence stolen items.
Interesting comment - this again brings up the issue of EAR stealing, I do have to say I am a bit flummoxed by the fact that EAR stole items like household items including plates,butter dishes, canned food,blue chip stamps ,clothing etc during some of the times he commited crimes......... I wonder how this fits into the equation given what you said?

I kinda suspect that maybe this guy decked out his apartment with household stuff stolen from his victims.........could this be because he was not well off ? or was he looking to have momentos of his deeds?
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By DanCartell
Member
2 years ago
683 Posts
dan
blue chip stamps?i didnt realise the ear stole these such items.can you give me more information on this please
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By metalhalide
Member
2 years ago
194 Posts
Re: dan
Posted By: metalhalide
blue chip stamps?i didnt realise the ear stole these such items.can you give me more information on this please
Hi ,
when he was in Visalia as VR apparently he had a penchant for stealing blue chip stamps and there is a lady who worked in a shop who remembers a mysterious young man who used to come in and exchange/cash them.........and the guy fit the general description of VR but as has been the story of this case ..................no composite was made as result the ladies encounter with the unsub!. Interestingly.......... apparently the guy once mentioned wanting buy jewelry for his mom!
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By DanCartell
Member
2 years ago
683 Posts
Re: EAR age in 1974
there was a person in california prison who denied given a dna .. and he fits the profile .. does anyone know who this guy wass ? i saw it in the doku...
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By ons
Member
2 years ago
47 Posts
dan
thanks for the info on the ransacker i have done virtually no reading on that case,is there anywhere i can get detailed information on the ransacker.i dont know what to make of this guy but it interests me.
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By metalhalide
Member
2 years ago
194 Posts
Re: dan
Posted By: metalhalide
thanks for the info on the ransacker i have done virtually no reading on that case,is there anywhere i can get detailed information on the ransacker.i dont know what to make of this guy but it interests me.

There is a detailed timeline showing when & where he commited most of his burglaries on ear-ons.com, there are also a few threads that discussed VR about a month or two ago- try these

community.aetv.com/service/displayDiscussionThreads.kickAction?as=119137&w=278284&d=734614&ac=new

community.aetv.com/service/displayDiscussionThreads.kickAction?as=119137&w=278284&d=724824&ac=new

the second thread has an excellent summary of VR facts to get you started , In addition someone wrote recently an amazing summary of similarities between VR & EAR which is a really convincing case for VR being EAR .........I will try and locate the specific thread...............

here it is !!

community.aetv.com/service/displayDiscussionThreads.kickAction?as=119137&w=278284&d=689096

community.aetv.com/service/displayDiscussionThreads.kickAction?as=119137&w=278284&d=686668
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Edited by DanCartell, 2 years ago
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By DanCartell
Member
2 years ago
683 Posts
dan
thank you,i have plenty of reading to catch up on.this case seems never ending,hopefully i will be back soon with my take on it.
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By metalhalide
Member
2 years ago
194 Posts
Stolen items
These items are somewhere. He stole these things to keep as momentos. Without looking through notes I can't remember what he stole early on. These items are all in a safe spot somewhere. If he died I think they would have been found. This is throne reason I believe he is still alive. Theses are my thoughts and I may be wrong but not one stolen item has ever turned up. If he died suddenly, they would have been discovered. Unless he was as cunning storing items as he was lucky to get away with all these crimes.
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By Smitty2011
Member
2 years ago
107 Posts
Re: Re: Re: EAR age in 1974
Posted By: DanCartell
Posted By: Peterlee
EAR/ONS is middle class or higher. This guy did not need to pawn or fence stolen items.
Interesting comment - this again brings up the issue of EAR stealing, I do have to say I am a bit flummoxed by the fact that EAR stole items like household items including plates,butter dishes, canned food,blue chip stamps ,clothing etc during some of the times he commited crimes......... I wonder how this fits into the equation given what you said?

I kinda suspect that maybe this guy decked out his apartment with household stuff stolen from his victims.........could this be because he was not well off ? or was he looking to have momentos of his deeds?
There was an extensive investigation of pawn shops / known fences by Sac LE around the Sacramento area and areas close to Sacramento. Sac LE came up with nothing. He did not pawning or fence when as EAR.
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By Peterlee
Member
2 years ago
319 Posts
Re: Re: Re: Re: EAR age in 1974
Posted By: Peterlee
Posted By: DanCartell
Posted By: Peterlee
EAR/ONS is middle class or higher. This guy did not need to pawn or fence stolen items.
Interesting comment - this again brings up the issue of EAR stealing, I do have to say I am a bit flummoxed by the fact that EAR stole items like household items including plates,butter dishes, canned food,blue chip stamps ,clothing etc during some of the times he commited crimes......... I wonder how this fits into the equation given what you said?

I kinda suspect that maybe this guy decked out his apartment with household stuff stolen from his victims.........could this be because he was not well off ? or was he looking to have momentos of his deeds?
There was an extensive investigation of pawn shops / known fences by Sac LE around the Sacramento area and areas close to Sacramento. Sac LE came up with nothing. He did not pawning or fence when as EAR.
........therefore he must have the stolen stuff in his home .......Interesting stuff, that was great work by Sac LE ; considering what Smitty said above it could be likely our culprit is alive and well and still has the items , I also suspect he has a treasure trove of newspaper articles related to his crimes since LE say he seemed to follow media coverage of his actions.

The only other possibility could be that maybe he pawned off some of the stuff in SoCal when he moved there later on,
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By DanCartell
Member
2 years ago
683 Posts
Stolen items
It would be helpful if LE would consider publicizing the items that were stolen. Maybe someone has come across these things but didn't know what they were. I know several drivers licenses were stolen, I assume someone would think it strange if they found those but they may not have any idea what they were from. I have friends in law enforcement and they have never even heard of this case so it's safe to say the average person wouldn't know what they were looking at if the found it.
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By Smitty2011
Member
2 years ago
107 Posts
Dishes, etc.
I'm betting he probably used some of these things himself or gave them to family members. Certainly, there have been killers who have given momentos to girlfriends, etc and were able to relive their crimes by seeing them using/ wearing such items. He probably got a thrill eating off stolen dishes or perhaps having his mom or partner serve meals on them. On the surface, it's seems inconspicuous.
Has anyone considered that if he felt pressured to get rid of certain stolen items quickly and discreetly, he could have simply left them in a donation box? Their records usually don't have much detail and they wouldn't give much thought to things like plates and cologne. I do think he kept many of his trophies, but if he had to dump stuff, that's a good way to do it. Growing up in So. Cal in the 80's, there were often goodwill drives where plastic bags were left on doorsteps. You could fill it and leave it on the porch or curb. A truck would come by a week later picking them up. It was all very anonymous.
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By a former member
Member
1 year ago
38 Posts

[Drifter]

EAR Alone Theory

I hope that everyone realizes that if the EAR did not commit the Maggiore murders, then two or more people will have gotten away with murder so long as it is believed that the EAR was responsible. The shooter of the Maggiores had at least one accomplice. So even if the EAR committed the murders, there was a second person involved.
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By Archangel76
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1 year ago
2156 Posts

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Re: Concern for the Victims
Posted By: Archangel76
The point of this thread was not that anyone here is "helping two killers get away with murder". The point is that are you at all concerned that if the EAR did not commit these murders that at least two people will have gotten away with murder so long as it is believed that he was responsible.

Does that fact concern anyone? The answer is apparently not.
If EAR had nothing to do with these murders, then I think it's up to LE to investigate this cold case. It's especially up them to do something if Maggiore was working undercover and was one of their own. Furthermore, if EAR had nothing to do with it, then our discussing it is a true waste of this forum space. If there's any doubt--the shoelaces--then let's brainstorm about who the accomplice could have been. If this was about drugs, then maybe EAR was the accomplice helping the initiator settle a score. My guess then is EAR had a brother who was a drug dealer or hitman. I'd start looking at viable "contestants" who had drug-dealing brothers in the Sacramento area. If I thought the EAR was the VR too, I'd look into "contestants" who have known records as burglars; if not in Visailia then Sacramento.
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By ladyofthelake
Member
1 year ago
209 Posts

[Drifter]

EAR confessed?

Could it be that the EAR was in prison and confessed to another inmate but was not taken seriously? Because i searched the web and found an "article" about the EAR. and a few people posted a comment and one of them wrote:
norcaliprincess wrote on 12/30/2009 02:24:27 PM:

I heard that he was in fact in prison for an unrelated crime and confessed to another inmate that he was in face the EAR. Too bad they could never really find out for sure.
What???have you guys ever heard of that? If that is true why couldnt they find out?
this is the link to the site:
www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/crime/archives/2009/12/ask-sacto911-ea.html
Or do you think this is wothless?

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By andythenatural
Member
3 years ago
52 Posts

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Any US Military bases/garrisons in Austraila?
I always thought that the EAR MO was very similar to the Austrailian rapist "Mr. Cruel" although the ages of their victims tend to differ too much.
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By deadbolt
Member
3 years ago
225 Posts
Does Australia?
Does Australia have cold case squads like some police forces in the US? Are unsolveds re-visited on a regular basis and have Australian authorities been in contact re EAR/ONS and possibly similay crimes in Australia.
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By f1guyus
Member
3 years ago
1283 Posts
Re: Any US Military bases/garrisons in Austraila?
Posted By: deadbolt
I always thought that the EAR MO was very similar to the Austrailian rapist "Mr. Cruel" although the ages of their victims tend to differ too much.
Also, Bolt: I believe Mr. Cruel targeted young girls of various Asian backgrounds.

AE7
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By AngelEyes7
Member
3 years ago
247 Posts
Re: EAR confessed?
Thank you AE7, that was an important element that I had forgotten. The Ear/ONS was, as far as we know an intra-racial criminal, attacking people from of his own background.
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By deadbolt
Member
3 years ago
225 Posts
AUS1: The Truro Murders

Hi AUS1--

This is off-topic, but I just had to ask seeing as how you're a native Australian...

I'm just curious: have you ever studied the Truro Murders of 1976-1977? Mr. Cruel was bad, and so were Ivan Milat and William "The Mutilator" MacDonald, but for some reason, I just feel like the Truro Murders were the worst your country ever experienced--with possibly an exception being made for the so-called "Family" Murders. Seems like South Australia (Adelaide) is for serial murderers what California is for serial murderers in this country.

AE7
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Edited by AngelEyes7, 3 years ago
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By AngelEyes7
Member
3 years ago
247 Posts
Re: Re: EAR confessed?
Posted By: deadbolt
Thank you AE7, that was an important element that I had forgotten. The Ear/ONS was, as far as we know an intra-racial criminal, attacking people from of his own background.
No worries, Bolt. You're a damn good researcher--keep up the good work and the great posts.

I read about Mr. Cruel at an Australian website not long ago. I should send you the link.

AE7
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By AngelEyes7
Member
3 years ago
247 Posts
There Were Asian Victims of EAR

EAR attacked asian victims.g
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Edited by guessting, 3 years ago
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By guessting
Member
3 years ago
2043 Posts
Sac Bee Comments thread
I read all the comments in the thread containing the "confession" post. Some of those people were nasty.
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By f1guyus
Member
3 years ago
1283 Posts
There Are No Juvenile Records From That Period Of Time

In California a juvenile offender as old as EARONS would have nothing on record anywhere. Juvenile records were stored and when they were no longer able to store them they were destroyed. We have to remember these crimes occurred before the age of computers and technology. We only have the testimony of family members, neighbors, wives and friends that could set us straight about EARONS juvenile days. G
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Edited by guessting, 3 years ago
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By guessting
Member
3 years ago
2043 Posts
hi all
Yes we have had some really bad murders over here. Namely the Backpack murders(Milat), the family murders, the Truro Murders (worrell and & Miller),the bodies in the barrels,the nanny murders and the Mackay sisters murders. All have been solved except for the Mackay sisters where they caught the guy but couldn't put pen to paper so to speak because he had dementia and was 91. We also had a lot of roadside murders during the 70's and coincidence is every where Milat went people disappeared. He is suspected of killing more than the 7 backpackers he was jailed for. However our police seem to work together and there is rarely ego getting in the way but it still does happen but moreso by officers from the same vicinity. I live in Queensland the sunshine state and Adelaide in South Australia seems to always have the most weird of all the murders. Must be all the heat and nothing to do!
Ausprofiler1a
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By Ausprofiler1a
Member
3 years ago
90 Posts
Re: hi all
Posted By: Ausprofiler1a
Yes we have had some really bad murders over here. Namely the Backpack murders(Milat), the family murders, the Truro Murders (worrell and & Miller),the bodies in the barrels,the nanny murders and the Mackay sisters murders. All have been solved except for the Mackay sisters where they caught the guy but couldn't put pen to paper so to speak because he had dementia and was 91. We also had a lot of roadside murders during the 70's and coincidence is every where Milat went people disappeared. He is suspected of killing more than the 7 backpackers he was jailed for. However our police seem to work together and there is rarely ego getting in the way but it still does happen but moreso by officers from the same vicinity. I live in Queensland the sunshine state and Adelaide in South Australia seems to always have the most weird of all the murders. Must be all the heat and nothing to do!
Ausprofiler1a

Hi AUS1--


beaumontchildren.com/beaumontPossibleSuspects.html

Interesting reading on the suspect you mentioned regarding the Mackay sisters' murderer.

AE7
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Edited by AngelEyes7, 3 years ago
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By AngelEyes7
Member
3 years ago
247 Posts
response
I have case notes from Uni on my study of the Mackay sisters murder and their killer,Arthar Brown. If you care to see them I could let you read them. He was also suspected of other crimes against children. Percy is also another killer to note being ex navy and a serial killer, these killers and studing them also gives us an insight into other serial killers and how they operate.
Ausprofiler1a
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By Ausprofiler1a
Member
3 years ago
90 Posts
Re: EAR confessed?
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Edited by JWBTXS, 3 years ago
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By JWBTXS
Member
3 years ago
335 Posts
Re: EAR confessed?
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Edited by JWBTXS, 3 years ago
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By JWBTXS
Member
3 years ago
335 Posts
Re: response
Posted By: Ausprofiler1a
I have case notes from Uni on my study of the Mackay sisters murder and their killer,Arthar Brown. If you care to see them I could let you read them. He was also suspected of other crimes against children. Percy is also another killer to note being ex navy and a serial killer, these killers and studing them also gives us an insight into other serial killers and how they operate.
Ausprofiler1a
Hi AUS--

I may take you up on that--thank you very kindly for the offer.

As for Arthur Brown: it disgusts me to know that his own family suffered sexual abuses at his hands (the Millier girls) and nobody ever blew the whistle at the time the crimes occurred. I pray that the same isn't true with EAR/ONS--that somebody is keeping quiet regarding his "dark side."

I understand that Percy is still hoping for a chance at parole. I don't see your country's attorney generals allowing that to happen.

AE7
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By AngelEyes7
Member
3 years ago
247 Posts
response 2
Derek Percy has been hoping for parole since he was goaled. He is also the prime suspect in the Wanda beach Murders and also the Beaumont children case. He is a grubby little parasite and was also ex navy. I have always believed our man to be ex services as well, as the occassional weirdo does slip through the system. I shared a room once with a guy named Luck in the army. Very weird man and him and another army soldier went on to kill a young boy on the coast back in the 80's.
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By Ausprofiler1a
Member
3 years ago
90 Posts
Re: response 2
Posted By: Ausprofiler1a
Derek Percy has been hoping for parole since he was goaled. He is also the prime suspect in the Wanda beach Murders and also the Beaumont children case. He is a grubby little parasite and was also ex navy. I have always believed our man to be ex services as well, as the occassional weirdo does slip through the system. I shared a room once with a guy named Luck in the army. Very weird man and him and another army soldier went on to kill a young boy on the coast back in the 80's.
Hi AUS1--

Percy is a grubby little parasite. I looked up his picture on Google. Hell, he actually looks the part of a serial murderer.

The question of whether or not he was in the military is difficult. It comes up more than once in the investigation, but I wonder if this suspect had the discipline to be in the military. I won't deny that he certainly could have been, but I get the sense that he was more of a "wannabe." I do believe, however, that perhaps his father or another major male figure in his life was in the military.

AE7
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By AngelEyes7
Member
3 years ago
247 Posts

[Drifter]

EAR locations in Sac

This photo shows how close the river was in a couple of the La Riviera Attacks. River access is right behind fence. This photo shows one of the attack sites. This is a two story duplex that sits just beyond the levee of the American River, near Watt Ave.

I have taken some additional photos and will be posting more soon. g



community.aetv.com/_La-Riviera-by-the-river-earjpg/photo/8234827/119137.html
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By guessting
Member
3 years ago
2045 Posts

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It was not luck or coincidence..

Alot of them were not single. They had situations that only someone with inside knowledge would of been privy to. There was no luck or coincidence involve in these 15 selections. They were very well thought out. There is no doubt about that and that is a fact! g
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Edited by guessting, 3 years ago
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By guessting
Member
3 years ago
2045 Posts
a ghost?
EAR had to have a method to select possible victims. The open gates could have been a signal. Everyone knows he would canvas an area before striking. It is possible his first move would be to open back yard gates. If he came back at a later date and the gate was closed, that would be a sign of an observant owner or neighbor. If the gate was still open, that would be a sign no one was paying attention to the area around the house, thus this would be a house he could approach with a reduced chance of being observed.
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By lamontd
Member
3 years ago
9 Posts
Re: a ghost?
Posted By: lamontd
EAR had to have a method to select possible victims. The open gates could have been a signal. Everyone knows he would canvas an area before striking. It is possible his first move would be to open back yard gates. If he came back at a later date and the gate was closed, that would be a sign of an observant owner or neighbor. If the gate was still open, that would be a sign no one was paying attention to the area around the house, thus this would be a house he could approach with a reduced chance of being observed.

ABSOLUTELY!!!! The open gates would also be landmarks for him after dark. Quick access to the victim's home. We know he didn't spend much time getting away, so, his vehicle had to be parked somewhere close by,( More then likely in vacant lots out of sight of the scene, or, hidden from common view). This guy planned his strikes with military precision. The " Baja Bug" would be a perfect getaway choice.
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Edited by setrepeoh, 3 years ago
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By setrepeoh
Member
3 years ago
532 Posts
they didnt see him
because he was slight. short, thin, covered in black clothing with his head covered, most of the time, and he was probably moving in the shadows of trees and houses. Thats hard to see at night, What was the street lighting like in these neighborhoods? Did the homes turn on their lights at night? Etc. Most people arent looking out their windows at night unless they hear something, and the idiots who leave their curtains open cant see out.
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By the confidence is the balaclava
Member
10 months ago
469 Posts