Set 14

[Drifter]

Familial DNA

AL SEIB, AP'Grim Sleeper' case may affect O.C. murder probes

July 08, 2010|By SALVADOR HERNANDEZOrange County authorities are attempting to use familial DNA to solve two cold investigations, a relatively new and controversial tactic used by Los Angeles police in the notorious "Grim Sleeper" case



And while a 57-year-old man faces trial accused of killing at least 10 people in South Los Angeles over a span of 20 years, Orange County officials said the use of familial DNA will likely be put to the test as well, affecting criminal investigation across the country.



Familial DNA is a controversial and rare approach to indirectly identify suspects, and Lonnie Franklin Jr. Is the first suspect identified by it in California, authorities said.



When using familial DNA, which was first authorized in California in 2008, DNA retrieved from crime scenes is used to identify people who could be family members of a suspect, giving investigators an indirect way of finding the actual criminal.



In Orange County, officials have petitioned the Department of Justice twice to use the same DNA search method, said Elizabeth Thompson, DNA lab director for the Orange County Crime Laboratory. Among those cases submitted was the "Original Night Stalker," a serial killer believed to be responsible for several deaths across California, including four in Orange County during the 1980s.
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By PortofLeith
Member
2 years ago
954 Posts

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Second Arrest

The arrest was only the second in California to use the DNA of a suspect's family member, and supporters of the technique said it illustrated its merits.


www.mercurynews.com/california/ci_17809194?nclick_check=1

The Santa Cruz search was the 13th time California had used familial DNA since approved in 2008.
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Edited by JaneDoe, 2 years ago
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By JaneDoe
Member
2 years ago
366 Posts
Sounds Like
Somebody has a suspect.
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By f1guyus
Member
2 years ago
1270 Posts
ACLU
Should DNA be collected on people arrested on suspicion of felonies without a judge's order? I believe a judge will give an order for EARONS when they find him. Collect - Test - Match - Game Over. Oh, what a beautiful morning....Oh, what a beautiful day......
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By JaneDoe
Member
2 years ago
366 Posts
The worst part is...

testing the DNA of potential EAR suspects could take a long time to do since newer cases obviously take precedent.

The reason why LE found the Grim Sleeper at all was because his son was arrested and it was his sample that surprisingly brought back a match. Otherwise the Grim Sleeper would, to this day, still be working in the police station garage.

The EAR would need a sibling, a parent, or a child to have recently been arrested, in order for these results to immediately pop out to LE.
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By MovieMan
Member
2 years ago
297 Posts
Familial DNA
Making new law here. Lots of contending interests. And the recent revelations about the ability of lab techs to alter DNA in the lab make it obvious to me that the whole familial DNA question is going to be the subject of controversy. And legislation, and lawsuits, and court decisions and appeals and reversals and........slap....slap.....Thanks, I needed that. Best case we find out who EAR/ONS was. Can't happen soon enough.
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By f1guyus
Member
2 years ago
1270 Posts
New Frontier in Law Enforcement
The ACLU sued and are awaiting the outcome on privacy issues. Elvis Garcia is going to fight his case on privacy issues and isn't Franklin fighting too? I hope the judge agrees that "The concerns about privacy are theoretical, but the results are real". There should be a judge's order for collection in all cases. I see a steamroller with powerful scraper bars pushing EARONS to the front of the line! LE can catch them but can the State keep them? Let's all hope so. The ACLU will fight for civil rights that protect the innocent and end up helping the criminal.
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By JaneDoe
Member
2 years ago
366 Posts
ACLU

Bless the ACLU for remaining a critical voice in defense of civil liberties and the individual's right to privacy.

However, the larger the DNA databank, the better. Is it possible that DNA evidence can erroneously convict someone? Hell, almost anything is possible, and the Jane Mixer/Gary Leiterman case is pretty questionable. Yet, innumerable false convictions have been the result of a criminal justice system in which DNA profiling did not yet exist, and a substantial number of innocents have been exonerated as a result of DNA. Something like Prop 69 can only exonerate the innocent and apprehend the guilty. Potential for abuse and failure, as with anything, is there, but given the way this particular science (DNA profiling) works, it's remarkably, remarkably small. I'd like it if the ACLU would back off on this particular issue.
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By SpeakelOfEngrish
Member
2 years ago
1090 Posts
Six Degrees of Separation

We may be all closer to the EAR/ONS that we'd like to believe.
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By MovieMan
Member
2 years ago
297 Posts
Re: Six Degrees of Separation

EARONS turn yourself in.

LE is waiting and you can show them how you tie knots.

They'll take you to a nice room at the Jail, no shoe strings attached.

You'll see an arraignment Judge, he'll help you with your navigator flashlight.

EARONS, you will get a Trial and you can even try on your mask!

They will let you have lubricant in Prison!




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By JaneDoe
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2 years ago
366 Posts
Re: New Frontier in Law Enforcement
Posted By: JaneDoe
The ACLU sued and are awaiting the outcome on privacy issues. Elvis Garcia is going to fight his case on privacy issues and isn't Franklin fighting too? I hope the judge agrees that "The concerns about privacy are theoretical, but the results are real". There should be a judge's order for collection in all cases. I see a steamroller with powerful scraper bars pushing EARONS to the front of the line! LE can catch them but can the State keep them? Let's all hope so. The ACLU will fight for civil rights that protect the innocent and end up helping the criminal.
Normally I'd agree with you, but have you checked out their website? LOL You'll see what I mean when you do.
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By ladyofthelake
Member
2 years ago
209 Posts
Re: New Frontier in Law Enforcement
Hi lady,
I'm not sure what you're asking me to look at on the ACLU web site. I know they fight the system on many issues, but thank God they don't make the decisions.
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By JaneDoe
Member
2 years ago
366 Posts
Some updated info. on DNA testing in CA
Copy and paste this link for additional information dated May 9, 2011: I thought this was an interesting article. Apparently it costs about $20,000. for the process. CA is doubling their efforts in funding 2 per month. There is currently one case in the works. I think it said there are eight more "in line." www.latimes.com/news/science/la-me-familial-dna-20110509,0,1393484.story?page=2&utm_medium=feed&track=rss&utm_campaign=Feed%3A%20latimes%2Fnews%2Fscience%20%28L.A.%20Times%20-%20Science%29&utm_source=feedburner
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By ladyofthelake
Member
2 years ago
209 Posts

[Drifter]

FDLE Profile

With hindsight being 20/20, one can look at the FDLE Profile and see the deficiencies in it's analysis of the EAR/ONS crimes. First of all, it was about the ONS not the EAR. It was developed before the DNA connection was made to the EAR. And it did not include the Goleta crimes.

What is missing from the profile is the fact that the ONS crimes (Ventura, Dana Point & Irvine) were committed by a serial rapist. No where in the profile was there any suggestion that this perpetrator had a history of prior sexual assault offenses (which we know to be the case).

Also, there was mention that the case was submitted to the FBI. There was this quote that caught my attention: "In addition, information concerning all four cases was submitted to the FBI’s VICAP system in an effort to link them to any homicide with similar characteristics nationwide. To date there are no known repetitions of these crimes."

This is disturbing because we know that the EAR committed the Goleta cases. So why didn't they come up as possibles? And we know that the EAR's signature was present in ALL of the cases where there was a sexual assault so why didn't the EAR rapes come up a possibly connected? They came up as a result of the DNA connection to the CCC attacks. Not the initial VICAP search.

The point of all this is that there may well be another series of sexual assaults prior to June 18, 1976 that were committed by the EAR that have not been connected because the EAR altered his M.O. Similar to Jessup and his Pillowcase/Woolly Rapist crimes.

It is possible that the EAR did time for those crimes (or crime) and came out knowing to keep his face concealed and not leave fingerprints.

Another possibility, if the EAR/ONS is the VR is that he has an arrest in his background for burglary prior to his stint as the VR.


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Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76
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2 years ago
2159 Posts

« Previous 1 2 3
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criminal record as youth
probably expunged.
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By catch_him
Member
2 years ago
214 Posts
Two Points

1. After Lyman Smiths murder local LW did what they always do in cases like this. They started drawing a circle around the victims, first the family, then the friends and business associates. Then the people the vics interact with every day. When they got to Joe Alsip they quit looking and started building a case on him. The method almost always works. Almost.
2. While the juvy records (and I'll bet EAR had one) are often expunged it's kinda surprising to me that no juvy officer ever called the EAR task force and gave 'em a name. Seeing what I've seen in SJ County makes me a little cynical I guess. When EAR really got rolling there were newspaper stories all over the country about him. Please don't tell me every cop at least in California wasn't aware of his activities. And MO.
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Edited by f1guyus, 2 years ago
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By f1guyus
Member
2 years ago
1265 Posts
Possible Juvy Crimes on base

If EAR was a military family member and they lived on a base, maybe he did his prior juvy crimes there. The bases weren't always good about keeping the local civilian LE informed about crimes happening behind the gate. Over the years on various bases, we had peeping Toms, someone stealing hundreds of pairs of women's underwear from base apt. laundry rooms, burglaries, car thefts, drug problems, sexual assaults, and murders. Many times, the perps weren't caught and the base wanted to keep the less than murder crimes quiet.

I wouldn't be surprised if EAR/ONS had a military parent that retired to the Santa Barbara area.
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Edited by privatecitizen, 2 years ago
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By privatecitizen
Member
2 years ago
76 Posts
And Maybe
His mother died in 1986? That might explain the stop.Crimes like this are almost always tangled up with Mom somehow.
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By f1guyus
Member
2 years ago
1265 Posts
Re: Re: A76: Both Strange Incidents
Posted By: Archangel76
Posted By: AngelEyes7

Hi Arch--

Thank you for the clarification. The prowler episode the night prior to the homicide should have been a huge red flag. When I read MovieMan's description--everything down to how the prowler used the wall to as his observation point, where he wouldn't be seen by anyone, it sounded exactly like someone we know only too well.

I remember when pts1 (sic?) posted about the Kitten Man. That too was interesting--the guy sounded similar to what Ms. Cruz's sister had written about Ms. Cruz meeting a "bodybuilder" at Laguna Beach. I do believe that EAR/ONS had some encounter with Ms. Cruz--perhaps not personally, but for sure having seen her from somewhere (at the beach, at her place of work, etc.).

AE7

AE7,

The fact that this person remains unidentified after all of this is probably the most disturbing aspect of the Irvine-side of the investigation. One would think that the investigators would want to identify and speak with anyone who was in Ms. Cruz' company leading up to her murder.

They might well identify the EAR/ONS by identifying the kitten man/body builder. Sounds like the EAR/ONS to me.
Interesting point regarding the kitten man\body builder..........it kinda got me wondering : supposing EAR was the body builder that Janelle met and seemed to like why would the guy go on to visciously rape and kill her when he could have built a good friendship/relationship with her?.........

On the percentage scale : how likely do you think EAR\ONS was kitten man\the body builder?
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By DanCartell
Member
2 years ago
683 Posts
Kitten Man

Interesting point regarding the kitten man\body builder..........it kinda got me wondering : supposing EAR was the body builder that Janelle met and seemed to like why would the guy go on to visciously rape and kill her when he could have built a good friendship/relationship with her?.........

My supposition would be (assuming the KM is the EAR/ONS) that he became enraged by seeing her alone with another male. Jealousy makes people do strange things.

On the percentage scale : how likely do you think EAR\ONS was kitten man\the body builder?

75%. This person did not come forward after her death and remains unidentified. Oddly, the EAR/ONS remains unidentified, too. One would think that law enforcement would want to talk with ANYONE who was seen in the company of a murder victim a day before her murder. I guess I've been watching too much CSI and that's not how it works in the real world.


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Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts
Re: Kitten Man
Posted By: Archangel76

Interesting point regarding the kitten man\body builder..........it kinda got me wondering : supposing EAR was the body builder that Janelle met and seemed to like why would the guy go on to visciously rape and kill her when he could have built a good friendship/relationship with her?.........

My supposition would be (assuming the KM is the EAR/ONS) that he became enraged by seeing her alone with another male. Jealousy makes people do strange things.

On the percentage scale : how likely do you think EAR\ONS was kitten man\the body builder?

75%. This person did not come forward after her death and remains unidentified. Oddly, the EAR/ONS remains unidentified, too. One would think that law enforcement would want to talk with ANYONE who was seen in the company of a murder victim a day before her murder. I guess I've been watching too much CSI and that's not how it works in the real world.



Kitten man was suposed to show up to her house with kittens, but never did. In addition, it was reported that prior to her murder they heard noises outside that sounded like a human trying to make cats noises. If kitten man was innocent than why not come talk with police? If kitten man was an innocent guy trying to sell kittens than why didn't he show up? Usually when someone wants to sell something they follow through on whatever arrangement to make a sale.
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Edited by catch_him, 2 years ago
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By catch_him
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2 years ago
214 Posts

[Drifter]

FDLE Profile of the nightstalker Part 1

After several attempts to post this profile I think If I do it in segments it may accept it. We shall see. There will be a couple of words removed. Where I enter word removed you should be able to understand what the content was with the word absent. These are the first four pages. G





FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT

Miami Regional Operations Center

CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIVE ANALYSIS

Series of Homicides

Dates of Occurrence: March 13, 1980, through May 5, 1986

Lyman and Charlene Smith - Deceased

Keith and Patrice Harrington - Deceased

Manuela Witthuhn - Deceased

Janelle Cruz - Deceased

The following criminal investigative analysis was prepared by Special

Agent (SA) Leslie D’Ambrosia, Florida Department of Law Enforcement (FDLE),

Miami Regional Operations Center, in consultation with, and review by,

Detective Sergeant John Yarbrough, Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department

(L.A.S.D.), Homicide Bureau.

The analysis was based upon a review of the materials submitted by, and

conversations with, Detective Harold Scott, Ventura Police Department,

Investigator Larry Pool, Orange County Sheriff’s Department, and Detective Larry

Montgomery, Irvine Police Department. The conclusions are a result of

knowledge drawn from personal investigative experience, educational

background and research conducted by members of the National Center for the

Analysis of Violent Crime (NCAVC), FBI Academy, Quantico, Virginia.

The final analysis is based on probabilities. It should be noted that no two

criminal acts or criminal personalities are alike. The offender may not fit the

analysis in every category. This analysis is provided exclusively for your

investigative assistance. It should not be disseminated, except to other criminal

justice agencies with investigative and prosecutorial interest in this matter. The

conclusions are based on information provided and the experience noted. The

analysis is not a substitute for a thorough and well-planned investigation and

should not be considered all-inclusive.

This analysis is based upon a review of four homicides with a total of six victims:

VICTIM AGE DATE OF OCCURRENCE

1) Lyman Smith, W/M 43 March 13, 1980

Charlene Smith, W/F 33 March 13, 1980

2) Keith Harrington, W/M 24 August 19, 1980

Patrice Harrington, W/F 28 August 19, 1980

3) Manuela Witthuhn, W/F 28 February 6, 1981

4) Janelle Cruz, W/F 18 May 4-5, 1986

All the victims resided in upper-middle to upper class single-story residences. All

the victims were low-risk for becoming victims of violent crime.

VICTIMS

All six victims died as a result of excessive beatings to the head with a

blunt force instrument. The first two victims, the SMITHS, had ligatures tied

around their wrists and ankles. The HARRINGTONS and MANUELA WITTHUHN

had ligature marks on their wrists and ankles. JANELLE CRUZ had a bruise

abrasion on her right wrist and evidence of a soft ligature used on her wrists.

All four female victims were sexually assaulted. Analysis of the semen

revealed that unknown DNA profiles in all four cases were from one donor, and

therefore one individual was responsible for these attacks.

Two of the female victims had circular contusions. One was located on

the shoulder of PATRICE HARRINGTON and the other was located on the

buttocks of MANUELA WITTHUHN. The shoulder injury was described as a

possible bite mark, the other as being consistent with a punch.

SUMMARY:

The offender chose single-family residences in affluent areas with ready

access to the freeway system. The first crime scene was located in close

proximity to a naval facility. The last three crime scenes were located in close

proximity to a marine air wing facility.

There was a distance of approximately 120 miles between the first crime

scene and the other crime scenes. Although there was more than a five-year

time span between the third and fourth homicides, the offender returned to the

same area to commit his crimes. The distance between the third and fourth

homicides was approximately 1.7 miles.

The first crime scene was located in Ventura County, California. The

remaining crime scenes were located in Orange County, California. No similar

crimes were reported in Los Angeles County, which is located between Ventura

and Orange Counties.

There were approximately 5 months between the first and second

homicides, approximately 5 ½ months between the second and third homicides

and 5 ½ years between the third and fourth homicides.

We believe your offender observed his victims from the exterior of the

residences prior to making entry. There were prowler reports by neighbors and

witnesses. There were unidentified shoe prints on some of the crime scenes.

JANELLE CRUZ’ visitor reported that on the night of her death they had heard

noises outside her bedroom window. Blades of grass in JANELLE CRUZ’ bed

would support the theory that someone was standing outside the residence prior

to entering.

With the exception of MANUELA WITTHUHN, there were no signs of

forced entry to the residences. We believe it is possible that the offender waited

until the victims were asleep in some of the cases, because he was able to gain

entry without alerting the victims. All the victims were attacked in their bedrooms

while in bed.

The offender controlled his victims several ways, but primarily with items

brought with him to each crime scene. The victims were initially controlled with

weapons and then were bound with ligatures. This is evident because there

were no signs of struggle or defense wounds on any of the victims. They did not

resist being bound. There were bruises and scratches noted on some of the

victims in the area of their mouths, buttocks and/or legs. Based on this we

believe your offender struck his victims as he gained their compliance.

The ligatures that were left behind on the first crime scene were tied with

decorative diamond knots around the wrists of LYMAN and CHARLENE SMITH.

The ankle ligatures were tied with square knots, which were different from the

wrist ligatures.

It is also evident that the offender used blunt force instruments found at

the exterior of the crime scenes. In the first crime scene, a fire log previously

located on the side of the house was used. Metal fragments were found in the

injury to PATRICE HARRINGTON’S head, indicating a metal object was used as

a blunt force instrument. KEITH HARRINGTON’S father had been installing a

sprinkler system at the victims’ residence the day of the homicides. The sprinkler

heads were readily accessible from the exterior of the residence. It was reported

that a pipe wrench was missing from the exterior of the house by JANELLE

CRUZ’ stepfather.

Evidence reveals that the male victims were likely eliminated prior to the

sexual assault and murder of the female victims. KEITH HARRINGTON was

struck in the head with a blunt instrument. A crime scene assessment indicated

that scratches and chipped wood on the headboard were likely made when

KEITH HARRINGTON was struck in the head. A wood chip was discovered in

the bed sheets between PATRICE HARRINGTON’S legs. The location of the

wood chip would support the theory that KEITH HARRINGTON was struck first.

Because this happened in the HARRINGTON case, it is likely that the offender

struck and killed the male victims first in all the cases.

The offender used a great deal of physical force when he bludgeoned the

female victims. The women suffered crushing blows to their heads resulting from

beatings with blunt force instruments. The amount of force used by the offender

was extreme especially considering that they were bound and compliant and,

therefore, unable to resist their attacker. The behavior of the victims during the

assaults did not cause the offender to increase the amount of force used

because they were not resistant. More force was used than was necessary to kill

the victims.

The female victims were all sexually assaulted and were assaulted in the

same manner. They were all assaulted (REMOVED WORD) and there was no evidence of

oral or anal assault on the victims. The DNA analysis on semen from each crime

scene revealed that the same offender was responsible for all four assaults. This

would indicate that the offender was capable of ejaculation and, therefore, was

not sexually dysfunctional.

The victims were covered with bedclothes so that the offender would not

get blood on himself. We believe this is evidenced in the progression and

adaptation of the offender’s methods in committing the crimes. In the first crime

scene, it is likely that the offender did get blood on himself. The fire log was

covered in blood and there was blood spatter on the scene. This would indicate a

direct contact between the victims and the fire log. The blanket was not pulled

over their heads when they were struck. In the subsequent crime scenes, the

offender covered the victims before striking them in the head. Because he later

uncovered them to remove ligatures, we believe the act of covering was for

“function” as opposed to “fantasy”.

An adaptation of the method of operation was seen in the offender’s

actions between the first crime scene and the remaining crime scenes. As we

indicated, the offender adapted his methods when he covered his victims in the

last three crime scenes. The offender also changed his methods when he took

the ligatures and the blunt force instruments away from those same crime

scenes.

















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Edited by guessting, 3 years ago

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By guessting
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3 years ago
2045 Posts

[Drifter]

Fibers found on victims

Were the fibers found on some of ear/ons victims ever anlyzed? I wonder what they meant to this guy and why he left them along with the burnt matches?
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By JWBTXS
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3 years ago
335 Posts

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Fibers and Matches

JWB,

My personal theory is that he used plastic shrink tube to seal the ends of the ligatures to prevent any chance of escape. This would require a heat source, hence the match or matches. The material left behind could have been from cutting the shrink tube with his knife or fraying from the irregular heat source.

My husband said this theory is absurd because the heat tube wouldn't fray. Next time I go to a hardware store I might have to buy some and try it.

Incidentally, this kind of heat tube shrinking is used in maritime applications to seal knots.


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By PortofLeith
Member
3 years ago
963 Posts
Fibers and Matches
Thanks P.Leith,
Interesting theory, that would explain the matches, but has LE. ever said what the fibers were? Maybe I missed that bit of info while reading these case histories.
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By JWBTXS
Member
3 years ago
335 Posts
Burnt Matches
If the ligatures were nylon or some other synthetic he was preventing the ends from fraying by melting them. If not your guess is as good as mine.
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By f1guyus
Member
3 years ago
1283 Posts
Plastic shrink tube...

That would be a good idea to try, then take pictures of the final knots and post the results here. I think it would be a good addition to the site. Cops use video/pictures all the time to prove theories. I also say this because I'm having trouble visualizing what a plastic shrink tube actually does.
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Edited by deadbolt, 3 years ago
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By deadbolt
Member
3 years ago
225 Posts
Oh! I've seen that
plastic shrink tube before around knots! It's good to keep it in order. IF I'VE SEEN IT CORRECTLY or to what you're saying....yes I've seen it!! I've got to tell you, I don't understand why we use police video/pictures sometimes whenyou just sort of get bits and pieces sometimes?
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By Sweetie
Member
3 years ago
25880 Posts
shrink wrap?

Hi Port,

This sounds a lot like a material used in electronics to insulate bare wires. It comes in sizes from 1/16 inch to 1 inch in diameter that I know of. You cut it to length and insert it over the area you want to protect and then apply heat. You can use a a match or a soldering iron or any heat source and the tubing will shrink and fit tightly around the bare wire.

It would be ideal to keep strings or ropes ends from fraying. If applied in that manner, it would be similar to the protective coatings on the ends of shoe strings that prevents fraying.

I believe you can buy it at places like Radio Shack.


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By lamontd
Member
3 years ago
9 Posts
matches
I wonder if the matches are a clue to something else? Or maybe he just has a smoke after his crimes are committed? People in an earlier posting were mentioning arson and poisonings following ONS crimes.
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By alicianotorius
Member
3 years ago
102 Posts
Arson and Poisonings
Alicia,
There are no known cases of poisonings and arson that are directly connected to the EARONS crimes. Those posts are not connected by evidence to any of the cases being discussed on this board.
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By guessting
Member
3 years ago
2043 Posts
Re: Fibers found on victims
This is crazy. Where in the heck did arson and poisoning get mixed up in this case? I do believe it was mentioned that there were cigarette butts found at some of the scenes, and if I remember right, they were Tarleton, or something like that. I know it was a brand I had never heard of before.
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By Bear99
Member
3 years ago
271 Posts
Re: Fibers found on victims
It has been mentioned several times by other posters than myself. I can specifically remember Cimm. mentioning that there has long been suspected arson and poisonings following EAR-ONS activities in Lodi , and other places.
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By alicianotorius
Member
3 years ago
102 Posts
You heard right alicia..
alicianotorius,
You are correct, there was mention of bombings, poisonings etc. I just wanted you to be clear those activities had nothing to do with this case "EARONS." Those were speculations that Ted K. was involved in those activities in the areas of EARONS crimes and numerous other locations. Again, those cases have absolutely never been proven to have anything to do with this case. g
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By guessting
Member
3 years ago
2043 Posts
Tareyton, old school ciggies!

Hi Bear,

The brand mentioned was tareyton. Their advertisements claimed "Their smokers would rather fight than switch (brands)." I guess they did not know at the time they were fighting to kill themselves. Cigarette buds were found below windows EAR was peeping through and possibly entered through.

Here are some of the original ads regarding them.

Image results for tareyton cigarettes
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Edited by guessting, 3 years ago
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By guessting
Member
3 years ago
2043 Posts
Re: Fibers found on victims
OK thanks guessting
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By alicianotorius
Member
3 years ago
102 Posts
The Old Board

This is why I find it so difficult to accept the decision by AE to take down the old board. All of these topics were talked about at great length and then again and again. There were so many different perspectives and it gave you a chance to read and make your own decision about what you thought might be probable. There was a ton writtten about the green fibers, the cigarettes, the bull tattoo and anything else you can think of about this case. It is a huge loss in my opinion. I cannot believe AE would not of invested in moving it or keeping it as it was. It was the most visited board. I think? g
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Edited by guessting, 3 years ago
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By guessting
Member
3 years ago
2043 Posts
Re: Fibers found on victims
Yeah for some reason, they didn't see the numbers from the old board. I find it hard to believe that there is nothing they can do to transfer it here. It is a shame, because I know for a fact that some of the stuff on there has been followed up by LE. There is a ton of good, and also some bad and crazy info on there, but it was great especially for new people. You could look up everything very easily.
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By Bear99
Member
3 years ago
271 Posts
pm
Bear,
Did you get my pm?
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By guessting
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3 years ago
2043 Posts

[Drifter]

Footrace with Sac Sheriff's deputies?

I frequently hear this event mentioned on the board, but I don't remember reading it in Crompton's book. I am just curious as to which attack this was (date/location). Thanks.
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By lawstudent1
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3 years ago
316 Posts

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I Guess
I guess a lot of people just don't want to know that people like EAR/ONS exist. This guy was on EVERY evening news TV or radio. Every attack wound up on the front pages. It was water cooler and lunchroom conversation all over Stockton even before the first attack here. And every cop I've ever met sooner or later said something like "For chrissakes if you see something call us. Let us decide if it's important"
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By f1guyus
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3 years ago
1270 Posts
Re: Re: Footrace with Sac Sheriff's deputies?
Posted By: waterfrogger
A footrace doesn't amount to squat. Back then I bet most runners got away but nowadays with better communications, helicopter, infrared, cordon techniques; usually runners get caught and they are probably more successful than 35 years ago.

A sheriff is probably carrying 30 lbs on him? He is not moving very fast even if he is pretty athletic.

Most teens probably can outrun most 35yo, it is sad to say. If you go to any high school 15 year reunion, look around and only a handful are in good shape. If you live in the South then maybe 2....lol.

Still, so what if he ran away from the cops. It doesn't say much other than he didn't weigh 300 lbs.
Ironic you mention the technology that would be used if this occurred today because during the rapes in Sacramento a helicopter was brought in and used to fly over some of the neighborhoods and then they (Police) also had night vision and other stuff like sonar back then which was used to help try and catch the EAR. On the subject of the foot chase another thing to consider about the EAR outrunning the officers is that when the chase started the suspect was probably high on adrenaline and that counts in his favor ..................liked the comment on high school reunions and the south (LOL)!!!!!
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By DanCartell
Member
2 years ago
683 Posts

Quick Reply

[Drifter]

Foreign Brand Cigarettes

I was reading all the old Newspaper columns and I came across a quote from LE which said the EAR/ONS was a "Heavy Smoker" who left "different Butts from different Foreign Brands at Crime Scenes. Could he have been a Sailor (Maybe from Different Country) or in Coast Guard. I am not from California so I do know area so I do not know if this is plausible. (Just a guess from first timer). Might explain knot.Please disregard this if this has already been discussed. Also would LE have checked out local Smoke shops for regular buyers of foreign brands?Could this have been EAR/ONS just planting them to throw off LE?It just seems strange that such an athlete, Able to outrun so many people would smoke.Also itcould be a explanation for all those lighted matches. Just burning the cigarettes to make it look like Perp was smoker when he was not.
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By jumbo6
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2 years ago
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Vantage
The poem is actually written quite well...I can see he thinks quite highly of himself ...do any lines jump out at you J.Doe
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By JWBTXS
Member
2 years ago
337 Posts
Re: Vantage
Posted By: JWBTXS
The poem is actually written quite well...I can see he thinks quite highly of himself ...do any lines jump out at you J.Doe
JWBTXS, the line that jumps out to me is the sign-off "Your East Area Rapist And deserving pest" The context and use of the word "pest" in the 1970's reeks more than anything else in the poem.
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By JaneDoe
Member
2 years ago
366 Posts
Other Thoughts
What lines jump out to everyone else, in regards to the poem? I'm just one person with one thought about the poem. Please share your thoughts.....what is the most telling about EARONS in his writings and context?
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By JaneDoe
Member
2 years ago
366 Posts
Re: Other Thoughts
Posted By: JaneDoe
What lines jump out to everyone else, in regards to the poem? I'm just one person with one thought about the poem. Please share your thoughts.....what is the most telling about EARONS in his writings and context?

For me these words: "Accepting some work to perform
At fixed pay, but promise for more,
Is a recognized social norm,
As is decorum, seeking lore".I am of the thought that EAR despised or looked down on those living a regular life with 9 to 5 jobs in the suburbs (could this also be why he chose to target people in suburbs?) ; the lines could also suggest he wanted to live a life that did not follow societies norms and expectations.He may also have had a grandiose view of himself .........Making references to Jessie James and Son of sam strongly indicates EAR read widely about other criminals and serial killers- this could also explain why he was LE and evidence savvy. Then one that has always stood out for me was the reference to an exile- I think he had big plans to retire someday from his crimes and maybe he dreamed of living somewere idyllic (maybe he has left California). The reference to his file may indicate he took personal pride in his "handiwork" and may have kept articles and who knows what else

Anyway Does anyone know what he is referring to when he mentions adding the wife of a mafia lord ?
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By DanCartell
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2 years ago
683 Posts
Re: Foreign Brand Cigarettes

He is referring to a victim #21.
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Edited by guessting, 2 years ago
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By guessting
Member
2 years ago
2045 Posts
Re: Re: Other Thoughts
Posted By: DanCartell
Posted By: JaneDoe
What lines jump out to everyone else, in regards to the poem? I'm just one person with one thought about the poem. Please share your thoughts.....what is the most telling about EARONS in his writings and context?

For me these words: "Accepting some work to perform
At fixed pay, but promise for more,
Is a recognized social norm,
As is decorum, seeking lore".I am of the thought that EAR despised or looked down on those living a regular life with 9 to 5 jobs in the suburbs (could this also be why he chose to target people in suburbs?) ; the lines could also suggest he wanted to live a life that did not follow societies norms and expectations.He may also have had a grandiose view of himself .........Making references to Jessie James and Son of sam strongly indicates EAR read widely about other criminals and serial killers- this could also explain why he was LE and evidence savvy. Then one that has always stood out for me was the reference to an exile- I think he had big plans to retire someday from his crimes and maybe he dreamed of living somewere idyllic (maybe he has left California). The reference to his file may indicate he took personal pride in his "handiwork" and may have kept articles and who knows what else

Anyway Does anyone know what he is referring to when he mentions adding the wife of a mafia lord ?
Dan, I agree fully that EARONS had a grandiose view of himself. Having established that point, was EARONS the product of a divorce where one side had money and the other side did not? It could be that EARONS was raised in money and when the divorce occurred...he was left in the void. His rage to be played out upon society rather than an understanding by the family from which he came. Exile could mean a lot of things.
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By JaneDoe
Member
2 years ago
366 Posts

[Drifter]

Formulating A Game Plan

Smitty quote: So how do we band together, formulate a game plan, and execute some of these tasks ? I have some LE contacts, don't know if they will be able to help me any but what info can we get as private citizens and where do we start. Many of you have a solid grasp on this case. What data can we tie together. I have stated where I think some key points are but I may be completely wrong. We need a plan and work towards implementing it.

Smitty,

There probably information in the court system that I do not know how to find and obtain. I would love to see whatever court records there are on Joe Alsip's case. Do you know anyone who would know how to obtain those court records?
Beyond that, what do you suggest in terms of a game plan?
My game plan has been to disseminate case information and bring whatever attention I can to the case. In terms of disseminating information, the publishing of Det. Crompton's book, "Sudden Terror" helped achieved one of the goals I was hoping for and it also brought additional attention to the case. Now we just need more people to read his book in the hopes that the one witness we need will read it and recognize who the EAR/ONS is and provide his name to the investigators.
Now I am trying to pick up the EAR's trail before June of 1976. If the EAR/ONS is also the VR, then we need to pick up his trail prior to April of 1974 because no one seems to have a clue as to who the VR is.
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By Archangel76
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2 years ago
2159 Posts

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Arch
Posted By: Archangel76
Posted By: ZForce
Posted By: Archangel76
Posted By: ZForce
Next time I'm in the SJ Valley I'll get the addresses of the VR crimes. At the very least that will get the ball rolling on the geographical profile.
ZForce,

I would like to know the results of any geographic profile of the Ransacker. Most believe that he didn't even live in Visalia. If he lived in Visalia, he should have been identified (via the composite sketch). Unlike the EAR case, the Ransacker composite is definitely of the Ransacker (as per Det. McGowen). If the Ransacker is also the EAR, then the EAR was a fatboy back in 1975. I think the later "enhanced" Ransacker sketch was fudged to fit a particular suspect. The Doughboy is probably the more accurate representation, IMO.
Based on what I know about the geography of the crimes already, it would be very tough to believe he lived anywhere but Visalia. Assuming Armour and Richmond aren't related the only thing that occurs outside Visalia is a dumpsite of VR property near the Farmersville/Exeter area east of town.

ZForce,

It could be that the Visalia PD was just as deficient in investigating the VR as Sacramento was in investigating the EAR. I don't know that to be fact as of yet. If he was in Visalia, one would think McGowen or any other Visalian would have recognized the composite.

I heard that he may have lived in one of the neighboring towns and came in to do his dirty work. The research that i have been doing about "commuter" burglars supports this. A commuter burglar will come in from miles away so that he will not be recognized in the areas where he is committing his crimes.

I do not know factually that the VR was a commuter (as opposed to a marauder). If he was a marauder, he should have been caught by virtue of the fact that he would have been recognized by a neighbor based on how prolific his crimes were in Visalia.
While the theory of an outsider comes up from time to time there just isnt a lot of evidence to go on in that direction. Especially when he's operating on bike/foot. He's able to move about freely without arousing suspicion in the neighborhoods in question, and the general consensus of those I discuss the VR angle with is that he either lived, worked, or went to school in the general vicinity. (NOTE: For those pursuing a LE angle to the case it should be noted that the Tulare County police academy was held at COS in those days. Probably still is.)
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By ZForce
Member
2 years ago
503 Posts
Follow up
I live in Ventura County. On the Alsip part, don't think he had anything to do with that. Poor police work. I can call on my LE resources but really need to have a solid request. Otherwise will no longer be a resource. why Alsip ? Totally was railroaded. And hasn't EAR/ONS been DNA,d to Ventura ?
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By Smitty2011
Member
2 years ago
107 Posts
Other Issue

The TK issue is the biggest impediment to any extensive publicity campaign. AK Wilks has poisoned the internet well with this TK conspiracy nonsense. The other issue, in my estimation, is that I no longer feel confident that there is anyone out there who knows definitively who the EAR/ONS is. (At least no one who plans on coming forward).

First of all, the case got considerable coverage in the Sacramento area back when it mattered. Unfortunately, everyone in Sacramento was looking for the stereotypical "weirdo". They were looking for the usual suspects. The EAR is an unusual suspect so chances are, he was someone that NO ONE EVER suspected. (This was the case with the Ski Mask Rapist in Texas).

Since then, the case has continued to get media coverage over the years. Once the initial DNA connection was made, there was another round of newspaper articles and press coverage. The A&E Cold Case Files, the MSNBC Investigates as well as the THS Investigates air periodically. Colleen Cason provided media coverage in Ventura. The A&E Board, JJ's Google board and the ear-ons website are open 24/7 to anyone needing case info. Finally, Det. Crompton's book provided an unprecedented insight into the case as well as another round of media coverage. The Goleta DNA connection provided the most recent media coverage.

Back in 1977-78, there was a $30,000 reward for any information leading to the identity of the EAR. The Harringtons upped the ante with $100,000. Whitmeyer, who was responsible for additional publicity (such that it was), offered his own reward.

IMO, there is no one out there who knows who the EAR/ONS is. I hope that I am wrong. But so far, that has proven to be the case. There are many reasons for this. It started with the release of the phony artist's conception of the EAR. That misdirected everyone's attention much like a magician's sleight of hand. Then the secretiveness of LE not releasing case information that would assist in identifying a suspect. And, of course, the public not writing down the license plate numbers of all the suspicious vehicles seen in their neighborhoods. And on and on and on.

So, most, if not all, of the tips that have come through have been of weirdos, 5150's, spousal abusers, etc. These people do not fit the emerging criminal profile of the EAR. All one needs to do is look at the BTK case. They had a recording of BTK's voice. NO ONE who knew Rader EVER suspected him of being the BTK.

I believe this to be true in our case. I still believe that we should continue to bring attention to the case (after TK's DNA has been obtained). But the chances of some witness out there knowing for sure who the EAR/ONS is are slim to none, IMO.

If his name is not already in a case file waiting to be re-discovered, then he will have to be ferreted out by data-mining via an accurate geographic and criminal profile.
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By Archangel76
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2 years ago
2159 Posts
Re: Follow up
Posted By: Smitty2011
I live in Ventura County. On the Alsip part, don't think he had anything to do with that. Poor police work. I can call on my LE resources but really need to have a solid request. Otherwise will no longer be a resource. why Alsip ? Totally was railroaded. And hasn't EAR/ONS been DNA,d to Ventura ?
Smitty,

I want to see what case information there is in those court records not as it pertains to Alsip (who was proven innocent via DNA), but rather as it pertains to the EAR/ONS case in general. There could be relevant case facts contained in those court records that could assist us in our investigation. I'd rather see the case files but I don't think Ventura is going to give those up. Some of the information contained in the case files might now be part of the public record via those court records.
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By Archangel76
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2 years ago
2159 Posts
follow up
Will see whatbi can do. Hopefully something.
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By Smitty2011
Member
2 years ago
107 Posts
Re: follow up
Posted By: Smitty2011
Will see whatbi can do. Hopefully something.
That would be great. There might be something in those court records that could break this case wide open. That is what happened in the case of Riggins/Gonsalves. Joel Davis got hold of the court records that eventually resulted in Richard Hirshfield getting nailed.
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts
Tom Voigt
Posted By: SpeakelOfEngrish
Posted By: SammyT

IMHO the best way to bring this case forward would be to contact Tom Voigt, the webmaster of zodiackiller.com, and to ask him to build a new, easily navigational EARONS website.


Tom's main interest is of course the zodiac case, but I believe that Voigt and the main zk researchers are planning to look at the EAR-ONS case if the zodiac case is ever solved (for the record Voigt also designed and ran the catchbtk website until Denis Rader (BTK) was caught, so he will move from one case to the next).

He may be pursuaded to design a better website for us, and also to get involved to some degree in this case...he has lots of contacts and amazing research skills...I would love to see him and Arch join forces or at least establish contact.

Short of someone blitzing the media and putting up a multi-million reward for the identification of the EAR, I cannot see a better way forward for the case than an EARONS/zodiackiller collaboration.

Bad, bad idea. Voigt's Zodiac site is a good one, but he himself is not someone of great honesty or integrity. He twists the facts to fit his POIs, much like Graysmith. He charges ten dollars to access his Zodiac message boards, and manhandles anyone who dares question or challenge his faulty theories.

On the upside, he did disable the account of toxic parasite AKWilks on his forums, so kudos, at least to Voigt for that.
I do not think that Voigt is dishonest...he does have a POI, but is open to other possibilities. There are several possible POIs discussed on the board. I have never seen him 'manhandle' anyone who was willing to follow the rules of the board (ie. do not post in the wrong sections/hijack threads etc)
I have been a member of zk.com for years and have never paid a penny to him...despite this he has always been willing to answer my questions etc etc.The good thing about having a webmaster is that (as you mantion) they can 'ban' any obvious trolls or fantasists.
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By SammyT
Member
2 years ago
433 Posts
Re: Tom Voigt
Posted By: SammyT
Posted By: SpeakelOfEngrish
Posted By: SammyT

IMHO the best way to bring this case forward would be to contact Tom Voigt, the webmaster of zodiackiller.com, and to ask him to build a new, easily navigational EARONS website.


Tom's main interest is of course the zodiac case, but I believe that Voigt and the main zk researchers are planning to look at the EAR-ONS case if the zodiac case is ever solved (for the record Voigt also designed and ran the catchbtk website until Denis Rader (BTK) was caught, so he will move from one case to the next).

He may be pursuaded to design a better website for us, and also to get involved to some degree in this case...he has lots of contacts and amazing research skills...I would love to see him and Arch join forces or at least establish contact.

Short of someone blitzing the media and putting up a multi-million reward for the identification of the EAR, I cannot see a better way forward for the case than an EARONS/zodiackiller collaboration.

Bad, bad idea. Voigt's Zodiac site is a good one, but he himself is not someone of great honesty or integrity. He twists the facts to fit his POIs, much like Graysmith. He charges ten dollars to access his Zodiac message boards, and manhandles anyone who dares question or challenge his faulty theories.

On the upside, he did disable the account of toxic parasite AKWilks on his forums, so kudos, at least to Voigt for that.
I do not think that Voigt is dishonest...he does have a POI, but is open to other possibilities. There are several possible POIs discussed on the board. I have never seen him 'manhandle' anyone who was willing to follow the rules of the board (ie. do not post in the wrong sections/hijack threads etc)
I have been a member of zk.com for years and have never paid a penny to him...despite this he has always been willing to answer my questions etc etc.The good thing about having a webmaster is that (as you mantion) they can 'ban' any obvious trolls or fantasists.

I can confirm that if you want to join the zodiackiller.com message board you will have to pay $10, that is absolutely true...........forgive me if I digress here but certain aspects of EARs MO have led me to suspect that EAR read about and learnt from the Zodiac- here`s is an example:
When Zodiac stabbed the couple in Lake Berryesa he approached them and said he was after money ............sound familiar?; Zodiac then had the female tie up the male with precut rope then he tied up the female and retied the males bindings then proceeded to his plan of attack.............sound familiar?

Regarding a game plan- there is a lot of knowledgeable people in this board and I think we are moving in the right direction its just that it may seem slow at times BUT considering that the EAR was no ordinary garden variety psychopath it will take a lot of effort to unmask him, from what Archangel has written above its most likely EAR is not in the case files and we will have scrape through lots of information to make headway in this case
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Edited by DanCartell, 2 years ago
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By DanCartell
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2 years ago
683 Posts

[Drifter]

fuzzy haired sketch

What is known about the curly haired Davis sketch?
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By dengas
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2 years ago
966 Posts

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Nice Work...
SOE and Icyu2. Gives us a much better idea of what this creep looked like.
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts
Re: fuzzy haired sketch
There is a possibility that the shape of this guy's nose may be an indication that he was of mixed race background.
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By Peterlee
Member
2 years ago
319 Posts
amazing

great work icyu2....you should do this to all the sketch's and try put them up on ear/ons.com
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Edited by fumanchuc, 2 years ago
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By fumanchuc
Member
2 years ago
141 Posts
This Sketch

I have to say: this sketch reminds me so much of the VR "Doughboy" sketch; the only difference in this one is that the suspect has slightly thinner jowls and is sporting a wild Afro.

TB7
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By AngelEyes7
Member
2 years ago
247 Posts
Doughboy
I agree angeleyes. They share similar features, particulary the nose.
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By icyu2
Member
2 years ago
40 Posts
wild fro
Wasn't there a period of time when the Afro was quite popular? I'll have to ask my son when that was because he had me give him a permanent at the time! I'm thinking it was late '70s.
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By dengas
Member
2 years ago
966 Posts
Afro
That composite does not at all depict an afro, which requires afro-textured (or "kinky") hair. The composite depicts a bushy hairstyle, which can be achieved with "product," or by simply allowing a thick, full head of hair to grow. Refer also to the comparison I previously posted between a composite of Ted Bundy (with a very similar hairstyle) and a picture of Bundy from around the same period. Bundy did not have an "afro," and the afro is just not at all relevant in any way to EAR/ONS, or to the Davis sketch.
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By SpeakelOfEngrish
Member
2 years ago
1090 Posts
Afro -- not
SOE...I should have hesitated in referring to it as an Afro. Even my son's permed hair was a far shot from a true Afro since he didn't have the needed texture or thickness. The hair on the composite just looks different than others...bushier and more wild, like the guy had naturally curly hair that he let grow out. Maybe that is why he wore a ski mask...to hide his hair as well as his face.
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By dengas
Member
2 years ago
966 Posts
Re: Afro -- not

dengas, there are a lot of variables here.
The subject who inspired the Davis composite may not have been the EAR.
Possibly none of subjects who inspired any of the composites we've seen were the EAR.
Differences in individual perception, as well as the multiple degrees of visual interpretation that result in a composite sketch, render most composite sketches unreliable. For example, not one of these four Green River Killer composites really resembles Gary Ridgway, though Ridgway himself was probably the subject who inspired most, if not all, of these. Also, watch Kurosawa's Rashomon sometime for a literal illustration of the problem of subjectivity among various witnesses to a crime. If you're not up for subtitles, then there's always the poor man's Rashomon, that being The Usual Suspects.
The Visalia Ransacker may not be the EAR/ONS, even if it seems likely that he is. Therefore, if indeed they're different offenders, then the VR composites are irrelevant to the EAR case.

Probability would have it that at least one of the composites we've seen probably was inspired by a sighting of the EAR himself. The long-haired 1976 composite and the October 1977 composite are similar enough to suggest they may have been inspired by two different sightings of the same subject. If so, then that subject was probably the EAR.

Some of the most compelling sightings of a suspicious individual who probably was the EAR suggest that the EAR had straight, blond hair. That doesn't look to be the case with the Davis composite.
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By SpeakelOfEngrish
Member
2 years ago
1090 Posts
composites
Someone suggested I flesh out the other composites as well. I've almost finished one of the VR and will upload it soon. I was thinking of doing one or more of the other sketches of the EAR as well; perhaps the two sketches SOE mentioned. Was there ever a final consensus on EAR's eye color? Blue seems to predominate, but I recall another witness describing them as hazel.
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By icyu2
Member
2 years ago
40 Posts
Re: composites
Posted By: icyu2
Someone suggested I flesh out the other composites as well. I've almost finished one of the VR and will upload it soon. I was thinking of doing one or more of the other sketches of the EAR as well; perhaps the two sketches SOE mentioned. Was there ever a final consensus on EAR's eye color? Blue seems to predominate, but I recall another witness describing them as hazel.
I look forward to those; you've done very impressive work with the two others you created. Some witnesses said blue, some said hazel. I would find some color that's indistinct and could be interpreted either way. Here's an example: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/Blue-green-gray-eyes.jpg
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By SpeakelOfEngrish
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2 years ago
1090 Posts
SOE: "Afro"

Hi SOE--

Looking again, it's not an "Afro," but whomever it is had a very thick, bushy head of hair. I know exactly which picture of Ted Bundy you speak of: his August 1975 Utah mugshots. Bundy's hair didn't look "bushy" in that mugshot; Bundy's looked more "feathered" to me--this Davis sketch (whomever it is) had bushier, more curly hair than Bundy.

I agree with you: the slim build and dirty blonde hair keep popping up. Coupled with hazle eyes, I'd wager that EAR/ONS had straighter, lighter hair--not darker & bushier.

TB7
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By AngelEyes7
Member
2 years ago
247 Posts

[Drifter]

I'm curious about the masks

Recently I started looking at ski masks, and I couldn't find any without a hole for the mouth. I am aware that firemen have them, but our Visalia Big 5 doesn't carry them. Are they sold in ski shops, or army surplus stores? I'm thinking back to 1975-1976, when Visalia was much smaller, and I'm not even sure Big 5 was in town. I'll have to look at some newspaper advertisements. I know that our army surplus store was where one would rent cross-country skis, etc. I wonder if LE tried to figure out where all of the various colored masks were purchased.
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By dengas
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2 years ago
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Vasectomy
I think that there was also a reference (in Sudden Terror) to one of the victims being told that there was sperm, and she replied that she was ovulating. I'll see if I can find it again, as I just started re-reading recently, so I'm only 150 pages into the book.
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By dengas
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2 years ago
966 Posts
Vasectomy
Page 121 "They found sperm." She kept stirring as the long strands slowly collapsed into the boiling water. "I got worse news," she finally said. "I checked when I got home. I'm in the ovulation part of my cycle. He couldn't have known that, could he?"
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By dengas
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2 years ago
966 Posts
Also...

Taken from the Florida Criminal Report:

The female victims (murdered by the E.A.R./O.N.S.) were all sexually assaulted and were assaulted in the same manner. They were all assaulted vaginally and there was no evidence of oral or anal assault on the victims.



I believe Crompton's book stated there were multiple cases of oral sex and one case of anal, when the E.A.R. was raping in Sacramento. Wonder why he changed those behaviors too.



About the Vasectomy...



This is from the article done with Bruce Harrington:



Aside from obtaining a list of friends and coworkers from the family, the investigators

also asked some bizarre questions. The investigators first asked Bruce if Keith had had a

vasectomy. When Bruce answered no, the investigators explained to him that the serology lab

had recovered two different samples of semen from Patti’s body. They determined that one of the

samples belonged to someone who had had a vasectomy. Since there were no medical records

showing that Keith had had a vasectomy, the investigator determined that Patti had been raped

before her death and the sample was left over from the perpetrator. The other sample, the police

presumed, belonged to Keith. The investigators also asked if Patti participated in macramé

crafting, which Bruce was unsure of. The investigators told him that the couple’s wrists were tied

with a special rope from macramé, using intricate knotting patterns. Aside from these tidbits of

information that were not nearly enough to paint a picture of the crime or its perpetrator, the

investigators failed to provide anything else to the Harringtons.
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Edited by MovieMan, 2 years ago
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By MovieMan
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2 years ago
297 Posts
Why the vasectomy
My belief is that he never married, but spent some time in a mental hospital in Atascadero. I think he chose to be clipped -- didn't want kids. I think he hates his mother and all women. I have a friend who was able to have a vasectomy at the age of 24. He had three kids and knew he didn't want anymore. His wife was 21 -- proof that there was a doctor in Visalia who would do the deed, even if the guy was young.
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By dengas
Member
2 years ago
966 Posts
blowing hot air

balaclavas are hot! even when worn as a watch cap.


The only clear advantage of a balaclava: it can quickly be rolled to resemble a simple, common watch cap. bank robbers (in movies, don't know any in real life) coming and going from a crime aren't out of the ordinary in a rolled balaclava.

My point--> a wool or polyester-blend balaclava trapping warm moist breath is uncomfortable cross country skiing (when it's below 32 f.) wearing it during vigorous indoors activity...well. take a muffler or light-weight wool scarf from your closet, tying it behind your head, leaving it lightly gathered over your nose and mouth. wow. it's hot.

EAR could easily improvise: taking 15" of the upper arm of a dark, light-weight t-shirt, sewing or tying one end. Cut a square slot for a face--which could be moved up over the mouth, or mouth and nose or all the way up to form a watch cap. Coming or going it'd be an innocent cap. At the scene it's quickly modified to leave as much of the face visible as he wishes.

It'd have the benefits of a nylon stocking mask yet not look freaky if he's caught with it. Masks, to my knowledge, were not found discarded along the paths (scent trails from scenes or along his bike evasion paths) so it's not like he is routinely ditching incriminating balaclaves. Then again he often did carry a bunch of stuff--incriminating stuff.
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Edited by Breccia, 2 years ago
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By Breccia
Member
2 years ago
218 Posts
Miracles and Kev

Miracles--he only killed in Southern California. Everyone else that he attacked in Northern California (over 50) lived to tell the awful tale.

Kev--are you calling Patty Harrington a slut?

We know Charlene and Lyman Smith apparently had multiple affairs, but Keith and Patty were newlyweds and deeply in love.

Apparently in California there is no age requirement to have a vasectomy. However, if you are young, or haven't had children yet, the doctor will usually have a talk with you beforehand and make sure this is what you really want. He/She might give you a day or week to think about it too.
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Edited by MovieMan, 2 years ago
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By MovieMan
Member
2 years ago
297 Posts
Wow...

The two comments I was responding to in my last post have been pulled from this thread.
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Edited by MovieMan, 2 years ago
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By MovieMan
Member
2 years ago
297 Posts
MovieMan Wow
Do you remember what you were responding to? Was it about the masks?
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By dengas
Member
2 years ago
966 Posts
Re: Wow...
Posted By: MovieMan

The two comments I was responding to in my last post have been pulled from this thread.
So...were mine.
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By Miracles
Member
2 years ago
133 Posts
Re: I'm curious about the masks
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Edited by Breccia, 2 years ago
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By Breccia
Member
2 years ago
218 Posts
As Soon As
As soon as he had the vics secured he took the mask off. Didn't need it if they were bound and blindfolded. And didn't care once he started killing.
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By f1guyus
Member
2 years ago
1270 Posts

Quick Reply

[Drifter]

the "poem"

Does anyone know for certain, was the poem handwritten or typed?
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By dengas
Member
2 years ago
966 Posts

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A&E Confused the Issue
If I remember correctly, the A&E special showed a typewritten poem. I remember hearing, however, that the actual poem was handwritten (and never released). I need to go back and confirm this, but I'm fairly certain this is the case.
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By Dogs
Member
2 years ago
51 Posts
Re: the "poem"
If that poem is real I can bet that this guy had some post secondary education. Even if he had copied that poem. He had to have known what it's meaning is in some of the lines. An introductionary English literature course at a University or a College would have given him the understanding of the meaning of some of the lines of the poem.
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By Peterlee
Member
2 years ago
319 Posts
if the original was handwritten
...if, then the handwriting on the poem needs to be compared to the handwriting on the mirror (Visalia). A handwriting expert could easily tell if both were written by a left-hander, and also if they were written by the same person.
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By dengas
Member
2 years ago
966 Posts
handwritten
The mirror was photographed, dusted for fingerprints, and removed. Hopefully Visalia Police Department still has it.
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By dengas
Member
2 years ago
966 Posts
Re: the "poem"
Most likely the poem would be type written. This is a criminal who took calculated risks that is why we are still looking for him after almost 40 years. The only way the poem would be hand written is if for some reason he could not get access to a typewriter.
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By Peterlee
Member
2 years ago
319 Posts
The letter could be hand written
After all, the zodiac letters were hand written and we are still looking for him after more than 40 years!
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By SammyT
Member
2 years ago
433 Posts
Re: the "poem"
Paraphrasing Oscar Wilde: EARONS is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you his truth.
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By JaneDoe
Member
2 years ago
366 Posts
For certain
Someone will eventurally come forward with a for certain on handwritten vs. typed!
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By dengas
Member
2 years ago
966 Posts
The Poem

It would be important if the poem was handwritten and was matched to the writing on the mirror of Gene's pickup, if that could have been in December 1977.

These are the words that stand out to me in the poem:

surviving

facing

take

prevailing

choosing

seek

selected

take

accepting

fixed

recognized

seeking

achieving

deserving

tempts

seems

seen

has

feel

make (2)

exile

add

to

raper (ist)

see

It's all about the loser that couldn't get his emotional sh!t together. Not one person cares about EARONS emotional thoughts....not then, and not today. The moron has more to worry about than his written/typed intellectual spew.....LE won't need that, they have his DNA.
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By JaneDoe
Member
2 years ago
366 Posts
Poem

Dengas,



Having reviewed the THS Investigates the ONS program, the poem that they showed was typewritten. I have checked with a secondary source that also says the poem was typewritten.
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2234 Posts
the THS Investigates' Producer came to the board

the THS Investigates' Producer came to the board and vetted the fact: Excitment's Crave was typed.

Below is a rambling post I made wrt the poem's provenance, originally posted to AK's thread "EAR Poem" (~4 months ago.)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

wrt the poem being typed. It was.
On the old board at the time THS (on the ONS) aired this questioned was discussed. We only had screen captures of some poem lines, subsequently the poem was released on the board by THS.
I thought (incorrectly it turns out)* that LE had typed the poem from a handwritten original. We were told the poem received was TYPED.
I'll look back on my old hard drive and see if I saved that comment thread.



* I thought it had been quickly typed up by some low level LE employee, perhaps from a barely readable handwritten sample or by a poor typist. The poem was full of errors. Nope. The poem was typed. With this in mind my opinion is the writer has high school or junior college reading/writing skills. He's the sort of guy who throws in a big word or two. Surprised when he receives low grades, well, he blames it on his audience i.e. the teacher.

It's a Big Ego poem by someone who doesn't know mortals from mortal's. jmo
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Edited by Breccia, 2 years ago
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By Breccia
Member
2 years ago
218 Posts
typed
Thanks, Archangel & Breccia. I was hoping that the poem was handwritten.
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By dengas
Member
2 years ago
966 Posts

Quick Reply

[Drifter]

Getting back to the EARONS case

Now would be a good time to start discussing this case. I will see what I can do. g
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By guessting
Member
3 years ago
2043 Posts

« Previous 1 2
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Re: Getting back to the EARONS case
I am coming to the states later again this year and would personally like to meet you to discuss your TK theory- maybe we could meet for coffee. Then you could put your money where your mouth is. October may be on the cards at the moment! I am going to Ventura and possibly (if I am able) would like to travel to some of the original scenes to get a feel on how he might have felt- even 30+ years later. I am a man of my word with nothing to hide- I run from no one and have nothing to fear- as well- I know you read here-why not do your best to forfill that wish you made 4 years ago on the other site. For all those others hopefully we could all catch up for a beer(aussies love a good beer) or a coffee and talk about the case. As for our friend, it's as though unless TK is the killer you don't want our man captured. Many of us want him caught, I have spoken to the spouse of one victim and a couple of others and they feel trapped in their own homes and will do so until he is caught, but for one,my friend David, he will never experience that. As for the people I know still actively investigating the cases, good luck and stay strong. Our day WILL COME! As for our friend, as we say here in Australia- play the game or get out and go home! I am not knocking your effort just the way you go about it. Send me details and I WILL meet you.
As well I was invited to the other site 5 years ago because I was clear and acurate about several cases that were later solved, one being the BTK. I was totally unaware of the ONS until I was asked by a colleague from the states would I have a look at the case, after first reading it I was hooked and remain here today after some setbacks. If I have a problem with someone I confront them than get over it (military way of thinking) I don't hold grudges and say nothing. As for the ONS I do believe he reads here and other sites dedicated to him, its his way of reliving the memories. I also believe that he is computer Savy and has ruined peoples hard drives with viruses or someone close to him that took offence to what was written. As for being caught my friend- he will be and not through DNA. He will get "Dobbed" in finally by someone not afraid anymore or simply just sick and tired of him. As for the BTK let me gloat and say "hey-all 12 points I wrote were Rader to a T" Why should I be be so wrong on all points by your accord of the ONS. I deal with criminals/LE on a daily basis- do the hard work then you may as well go on and "Gloat". If TK is the ONS not only will I hold Guesstings hand and run through the main street of Ventura,naked- I will donate $100 to a battered wifes organisation and give you personally $100 to recover your old armchair that you are giving a workover with your TK theories. Prove me wrong and watch me run naked- I dare you! waiting for the dna to come back on our old mate Ted and laugh my arse off literally!Ausprofiler1
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By Ausprofiler1a
Member
3 years ago
90 Posts
Re: Getting back to the EARONS case
We'll see about all that.
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By Cimmerian10
Member
3 years ago
1000 Posts
Re: Getting back to the EARONS case
Ausi,
I would be happy to show you EAR locations and other areas of interest in Sacramento if you are interested. Believe me, I would never offer to publicly run naked anywhere, but, I am so certain about TK, I am confident I won't have to. October again? It seems you really like October Ausi. What does "dobbed" mean? g
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By guessting
Member
3 years ago
2043 Posts
Re: Getting back to the EARONS case
Love to visit the sites with you. Dobbed is a slang word for someone reported him or squealed. As in I am going to "dob" on you" often said by Australian kids. Not that I like October, it's just that it seems the most likely time I can get away from work and there are a few seminars as well that I would like to attend over there at that time. I have recently just had a few months off after a shoulder reconstruction so it would also be good to relax and get away.
I think more public attention is needed to bring this case new clues even after such a long time. Maybe an outspoken Australian getting media attention may do that. It may also draw him out of his comfort zone with either a letter or comment. I would love to also visit Ted as well and get his thoughts on the case, as I am sure he would be interested to hear about the case. I recently read in our papers over here that you had another prisoner on death row executed by firing squad, maybe we need to follow suite over here with some of our serial offenders. We have a great case over here, in Western Australia, called the Claremont killings. never been solved, however there are a few new recent leads, look it up you will all be interested. As well if you ever get the chance, watch "wolf creek" based on the story of the backpack killer Ivan Milat. Thankfully, he is now behind bars in Long bay prison.As with the naked run, I agree with you, I rarely run any more however I could do with one if the need arises which I very much doubt!Ausprofiler1
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By Ausprofiler1a
Member
3 years ago
90 Posts
Re: Getting back to the EARONS case
Ausi,
I run, almost daily, just not without clothes..I would love to show you the EAR locations and some other places of interest here in sunny Sacramento if you are up for it. What I really would like is to have a team of individuals get together with their information and lay it out across the board. No personal issues, with one thing in mind, how we can unite and work towards solving this case. There is no one that I am unwilling to work with if it is for the good of this case. I care about one thing, seeing resolution for the victims and their families. Only by working together can this be acheived. I will plan for an October get together. guessting
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By guessting
Member
3 years ago
2043 Posts
Re: Getting back to the EARONS case

"A dingo ate my babay!" - No pun Aus . I still think the Chamberlains killed their baby.

BTW, my post is totally off-topic.
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Edited by waterfrogger, 3 years ago
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By waterfrogger
Member
3 years ago
123 Posts
Re: Getting back to the EARONS case
Is that a very old, old case? the dingo ate the baby one? g
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By guessting
Member
3 years ago
2043 Posts
Re: Getting back to the EARONS case

Guest: I think around the 80's sometime. I am sure if you type in Chamberlain Austrailia in WIKI it will probably show up.

Well, maybe Ted Kaczynski killed the Chamberlain's baby whilst cruising in his DeLorean and fueling the flux capacitor with regurgitated Thanksgiving dinner.
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Edited by waterfrogger, 3 years ago
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By waterfrogger
Member
3 years ago
123 Posts
Re: Getting back to the EARONS case
So much for "getting back to the EAR/ONS."
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By Cimmerian10
Member
3 years ago
1000 Posts
Re: Getting back to the EARONS case
I know I am sorry but I thought it was funny.

Does anyone know if that tennis court was always behind the Cruz's house? What kind of Spring/Winter activities took place there? He could of had the whole winter to surveillance Janelle.
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By waterfrogger
Member
3 years ago
123 Posts

[Drifter]

GIGO

MM pointed out certain members of LE being frustrated by worthless leads potentially obscuring good leads. That is a legitimate concern and we will make a good faith effort to encourage potential witnesses to pre-screen their POI's/Suspects first before forwarding them on to the investigators. They do not have time for b.s. In the past, we have acted as a buffer between the investigators and bored, vengeful, mischievious, misguided or unstable people out there.

That will be one of the additions to the updated website. I will make it easier for witnesses to vet their own POI's. I will also make it explicit that A) their POI's should be pre-screened for viability and that B) we will assist them in pre-screening their POI's. Again, we are here to work with LE not against them because ultimately, we are all working for what is in the best interest for the many victims.

With that said, if I may be critical for a moment. Half the reason that LE is getting worthless leads is because for the last 33 years the public has been getting worthless information. Garbage In- Garbage Out. Part of my mission has been to just find out what actually happened so that I can disseminate more accurate case information. Det. Crompton's book, "Sudden Terror" has finally provided us with a lot of what happened.

What would truly be constructive and assist immensely in allowing us to properly vet suspects is a reliable criminal profile. Inv. Pool's FDLE Profile is incomplete and as such provides an inaccurate picture of the person we are looking for. And while criminal profiles can be inaccurate and actually throw off an investigation, we are well past that being a concern. The investigation is already thrown off. It is 30+ years thrown off.

A criminal profile released to the media woud allow us to know WHO, in terms of WHAT TYPE OF PERSON we are looking for. The profile would have to be created by someone with a track record such as John Douglas or Roy Hazelwood. The armchair profiling that I have done only recently allowed me to see that most of the people who were cleared were never really good EAR/ONS suspects to begin with.

It also allowed me to see that most likely Prof. Rossmo was correct in where the EAR probably resided while in Sacramento. The EAR/ONS was a "commuter-type" offender. So while I was spending my time looking for him in Rancho Cordova, he most likely had moved from Rancho Cordova and was living in either Carmichael or Citrus Heights.

A criiminal profile can provide a lot of important behavioral traits as well as background information on the EAR's upbringing, family ilfe, education, probable employment. An updated geographic profile could suggest more about where the EAR may have resided/worked/frequented. In short, it would allow us on this board to more effectively vet suspects before forwarding them to the investigators.

So if there is a genuine concern about the low quality of the leads, that is something that law enforcement has direct control over. Release quality case information to the public so that the public is better able to vet their own suspects. GIGO. Law enforcement (with the exception of the SCSD requesting info on the base decal) has not requested any specific information from the public.

If law enforcement leaves it to the public to decide what information law enforcement needs from them, you will get unfiltered, worthless leads. A criminal profile will provide a filter and the leads that come in will be those that fit the profile.

I can list example after example of where a criminal profile assisted in the identification of the perpetrator starting with George Metesky/The Mad Bomber. One need look no further than the capture of the "East Coast Rapist" for how the public should be informed about criminal cases. "America's Most Wanted" is a testament to how effective the public can be when LE makes a specific request for specific information.

So long as LE "holds back" pertinent information and not make specific request for specific information, they are going to get generalized leads and maybes such as "he looks like the artist's conception" or the enhanced Maggiore composite. Or he lived in California. Or worse, he resided in Montana and travelled over 2000 miles to commit crimes and travelled back to hide out in a shack.

To the law enforcment investigators: please assist us in better vetting our suspects by providing us with a reliable criminal profile. Right now I know who we are not looking for (and it's taken 7 years to get here). We're not looking for the weird neighbor, the homeless guy who talks to himself, the physically abusive husband or the homosexual child molester. We're not looking for a guy who lives in a shack. So while I now know who we are not looking for, I still do not know who we are looking for.

A reliable criminal profile done by a competent, experienced FBI-trained criminal profiler will give us all a better idea of who were are looking for. And we can then, in turn, more effectively vet suspects before forwarding them on to law enforcement.
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Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76
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2 years ago
2159 Posts

« Previous 1 2
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DKK

Conquistador, by the way, it's a little curious that you'd choose to refer to the EAR as DKK (the "Diamond Knot Killer.") DKK was one of the acronyms favored by JJMCGR, who—although his website continues to be an excellent resource—has been one of the primary purveyors of misinformation and illogical theories with respect to this case.

The name "Diamond Knot Killer" itself is something of a misnomer. When I first learned about EAR/ONS, I believe it was via an MSNBC special, and I was under the impression that the diamond knot was a linking factor across most or all of this offender's crimes. I continued to believe this for some time, and the E! special didn't exactly dispel it. But, the diamond knot is only confirmed to have been observed in connection to a single EAR/ONS crime (Ventura). Given the possibility that EAR/ONS did not even tie this knot himself, the diamond knot may ultimately have no relevance to the case. I haven't given much thought to this detail, in fact, in a while, and indeed it seems low on the totem pole of importance.
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By SpeakelOfEngrish
Member
2 years ago
1090 Posts
Night Stalker Article and the used of the term DKK
It is interesting to note that DKK did not committ anymore known double homicides after the LA times article. I do believe it is important to note that this killer used a diamond knot in one of the double homicides in Ventura. This shows that he had this particular knowledge of tying a complex nautical knot. I do not believe that the victim while having a gun to her head decided to tie a pretty knot on her partner and then somehow magically tied her own hands with the same ornate knot.
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By conquistador1521
Member
2 years ago
388 Posts
Re: Night Stalker Article and the used of the term DKK
Posted By: conquistador1521
It is interesting to note that DKK did not committ anymore known double homicides after the LA times article. I do believe it is important to note that this killer used a diamond knot in one of the double homicides in Ventura. This shows that he had this particular knowledge of tying a complex nautical knot. I do not believe that the victim while having a gun to her head decided to tie a pretty knot on her partner and then somehow magically tied her own hands with the same ornate knot.

I believe it's been suggested that the diamond knot may have already been present in the ligatures before EAR/ONS chose to use them as ligatures. Still, however, you ignore my point about Witthuhn and Cruz not having been connected nor connectable to each either or any other crime. Your lack of acknowledge of this specific point, in the near-dozen instances I've made it in response to each of your ridiculous assertion that EAR was drivin' an eight-hour drive down from Sac to offend in Southern CA, is so consistent that it can only be deliberate.
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Edited by SpeakelOfEngrish, 2 years ago
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By SpeakelOfEngrish
Member
2 years ago
1090 Posts
@soe

I know and have known many people over the years that travel from Sacramento to LA for business or to see family on a regular basis. I do not know why you find this very common reality to be ridiculous. In fact it is very common for Sacramentans to have a close connection to SoCal. Now a lot of them would fly but back in the late seventies and early eighties flying was very expensive and they would drive. Nobody ever said he did it in one day. You have to remember that Sacramento was a pretty small town in 1980. It had a low cost of living but at the same time it had a low pay scale with limited job opportunities. It was and still is common for Sacramentans especially young Sacramentans to move to work in SoCal while still maintaining a permanent residence in Sacramento. For the DKK it is entirely possible that he worked in Southern California for around a year and a half from late 79 to early 81 and then returned to Sacramento after sharing an apartment or couch surfing. This was and is how people save money and get back on their feet. Any background check now would not show this just like a background check on me does not show every place that I lived. To me he likely did live in SoCal in the early eighties but that doesn't mean it will show up on your searches. The 86' attack is another story he could of just been visiting. I guess my point is that people from Sacramento migrate to and from SoCal all the time and in a variety of ways and for a variety of reasons.
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Edited by Repoman, 2 years ago
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By Repoman
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2 years ago
1487 Posts
Re: DKK
Posted By: SpeakelOfEngrish

Conquistador, by the way, it's a little curious that you'd choose to refer to the EAR as DKK (the "Diamond Knot Killer.") DKK was one of the acronyms favored by JJMCGR, who—although his website continues to be an excellent resource—has been one of the primary purveyors of misinformation and illogical theories with respect to this case.

The name "Diamond Knot Killer" itself is something of a misnomer. When I first learned about EAR/ONS, I believe it was via an MSNBC special, and I was under the impression that the diamond knot was a linking factor across most or all of this offender's crimes. I continued to believe this for some time, and the E! special didn't exactly dispel it. But, the diamond knot is only confirmed to have been observed in connection to a single EAR/ONS crime (Ventura). Given the possibility that EAR/ONS did not even tie this knot himself, the diamond knot may ultimately have no relevance to the case. I haven't given much thought to this detail, in fact, in a while, and indeed it seems low on the totem pole of importance.

And the Green River Killer did not always dump his victims in the Green River. DKK as Conquistador has defined it is shorthand for VR/EAR/ONS. Meaning that by saying the DKK he is saying that he believes the same person is responsible for all three series of attacks. Until we have his name we have to call something. What would you suggest? How about POS? As in the POS did this, the POS did that etc.
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Edited by Repoman, 2 years ago
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By Repoman
Member
2 years ago
1487 Posts
Re: GIGO

Repoman, I love how you often speak on Conquistador's behalf. It is true, the Green River Killer did not always dump his victim in the Green River. He was widely and exclusively referred to by this moniker, however. "Diamond Knot Killer" is used with extreme infrequency and, as I stated, is pretty much a misnomer.

I do not entirely discount the possibility that the EAR had some residence in Sac between 1981 and 1987, or even throughout that period, nor do I discount the possibility that he never "lived" in Southern CA. But, there are other scenarios that are far more likely, and there is no data to support this idea. There is plenty of data to support the scenario that he was living in Irvine, or close to it, or (at the very least) in Southern CA, during the first half of the 1980s. If you wish to inexplicably favor the least plausible scenario of where EAR was living in the 1980s, that's your problem.
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By SpeakelOfEngrish
Member
2 years ago
1090 Posts
What's In A Name
SOE no one ever said that calling him the DKK was going to help catch him. Seriously what do you think we should call him? I like POS. That way no one ever forgets what he really is.
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By Repoman
Member
2 years ago
1487 Posts
Re: Diamond knot

I'm not sure of this, but weren't some shoelaces tied with a diamond knot found next to Katie Maggiore's body? I believe that Movieman stated in an earlier post that he had been told by someone who had worked on the A & E special that the SCSD had confirmed that laces were found at the scene of the Maggiore homicide, although he wasn't specific as to whether they were tied with a diamond knot. Does anyone here know?
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Edited by icyu2, 2 years ago
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By icyu2
Member
2 years ago
40 Posts
Re: Re: Diamond knot
Posted By: icyu2

I'm not sure of this, but weren't some shoelaces tied with a diamond knot found next to Katie Maggiore's body? I believe that Movieman stated in an earlier post that he had been told by someone who had worked on the A & E special that the SCSD had confirmed that laces were found at the scene of the Maggiore homicide, although he wasn't specific as to whether they were tied with a diamond knot. Does anyone here know?
Yes -- that was not a diamond knot, but another knot known to have been preferred by the EAR.
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By SpeakelOfEngrish
Member
2 years ago
1090 Posts

[Drifter]

Glasby

Hi Sandia,

You posted on Proboards.com that You have been in Contact with One of the Members of haskulls Locals.

I have too!

Iv'e been Attempting to Send You a Message but Can't Get Through.

Is ther any other way I can contact You because I have something Important to tell You about the Case.

Thank You

Jeff


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By JefferyHoward
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6 days ago
3 Posts

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Hello

I practically never come to this a&e board but somebody told me that you wrote to me here so I just found out. I fell asleep and got up to shut off the computer. I will check in tomorrow. Thanks! Sandia (I'm anxious to hear what you have to say.)
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By Sandia
Member
2 days ago
1440 Posts
Re: Hello
Posted By: Sandia

I practically never come to this a&e board but somebody told me that you wrote to me here so I just found out. I fell asleep and got up to shut off the computer. I will check in tomorrow. Thanks! Sandia (I'm anxious to hear what you have to say.)
Hi Jeffrey, trying to get back to you. Sandia
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By Sandia
Member
2 days ago
1440 Posts
Glasby

Hello again Sandia,

My E-Mail is [e-mail]

Hope to hear from You Soon
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By JefferyHoward
Member
1 day ago
3 Posts
Re: Glasby
LOL BYE BYE!!!!!!!!!! LOL LOL
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By KevTheBoer
Member
1 day ago
9191 Posts
Re: Re: Glasby
Posted By: KevTheBoer
LOL BYE BYE!!!!!!!!!! LOL LOL
Bye Bye, Can't say I'll miss you but hope you see the error of your ways and go on to be a better person. I actually wish you well, which probably irks you. Try to be nice. Come into the light.
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By Sandia
Member
1 day ago
1440 Posts
Re: Glasby
Posted By: JefferyHoward

Hello again Sandia,

My E-Mail is [e-mail]

Hope to hear from You Soon
Hi Jeffery, I have e-mailed you. Hope to hear from you soon. Looks like you contacted me in the nick of time. Sandia
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By Sandia
Member
1 day ago
1440 Posts
SHUTDOWN!!!!!!!!! POOF!!!!!
I LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT ! ALL THAT "WORK" LOST! LOL LOL LOL THIS MADE MY DAY!

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By KevTheBoer
Member
1 day ago
9191 Posts
Yep, Kev. The light is POOFED!

Do not see that light! DO NOT GO IN TO THAT LIGHT! HAHAHAHAHA!
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Edited by Guns Up!, 1 day ago
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By Guns Up!
Member
1 day ago
176 Posts
ROFL Your so right!
ROFL Guns up! Yeah if certain people spent more quality time watching movies instead of playing defective detective they would know going into the light isn't a good thing.....
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By KevTheBoer
Member
1 day ago
9191 Posts
Kev! you are showing the real you to the world.
You are showing the world who you are. Someone who delights in the misfortune of others. Someone who roots on a serial killer. Someone who diminishes the lives of victims and attacks victims. Someone who is the biggest racist I have ever seen. And somehow I still want you to come into the light. I don't want anything bad to happen to you. What happened to you Kev, to turn you into the person you have become? I actually am interested because it might shed some light onto how EAR/ONS became what he became. You hate me and you seem to be eaten up by hate. I do not hate you. I hate what you do but not you. I want you to get help.
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By Sandia
Member
1 day ago
1440 Posts
Kev! you are showing the real you to the world.
You are showing the world who you are. Someone who delights in the misfortune of others. Someone who roots on a serial killer. Someone who diminishes the lives of victims and attacks victims. Someone who is the biggest racist I have ever seen. And somehow I still want you to come into the light. I don't want anything bad to happen to you. What happened to you Kev, to turn you into the person you have become? I actually am interested because it might shed some light onto how EAR/ONS became what he became. You hate me and you seem to be eaten up by hate. I do not hate you. I hate what you do but not you. I want you to get help.
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By Sandia
Member
1 day ago
1440 Posts
Pfffffffffffffffffftttttttttttttttt

ROFL and I care what you think WHY? I don't need help Sandia I have a life, I don't obsess over dead people I never even knew BUT I am orgasmically happy that all your hard work and your "investigation" are going into the crapper where they belong...See to you - this you lifes work, an ill advised undertaking you never should have taken on, and that never should have been tolerated as long as it was... and tomorrow all of your thousands upon thousands of hours of so called "work" will be destroyed by someone typing

$ mysql -u root -p | mysql> DROP DATABASE (name) | mysql> quit

That's how it will end... Not with a bang, but a whimper.... What you people devoted years of your life to and violated the rights of over 8000 innocent people will be FOREVER GONE with three lines of code. Puts things in perspective I LOVE IT!
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Edited by KevTheBoer, 1 day ago
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By KevTheBoer
Member
1 day ago
9191 Posts
Re: Glasby
Adios
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By Sweetie
Member
1 day ago
25913 Posts
Three lines of code..

Shows how insignifigant all these efforts were... Three lines of code and the administrator will send your work off to /dev/null , EXACTLY where it belongs and from whence it shall never return. LOL

Oh and by the way Sandia since your dispensing advice - WHEN THE DEPUTY DOESNT CALL YOU BACK IT MEANS HE DOESNT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY. That's called A CLUE. LOL GET ONE!
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Edited by KevTheBoer, 1 day ago
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By KevTheBoer
Member
1 day ago
9191 Posts
Re: Three lines of code..
Posted By: KevTheBoer
Shows how insignifigant all these efforts were... Oh and by the way Sandia since your dispensing advice - WHEN THE DEPUTY DOESNT CALL YOU BACK IT MEANS HE DOESNT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY. That's called A CLUE. LOL GET ONE!
That detective called me out of the blue to thank me. I recently called him, he did call me back. I asked him a question, he said he would check into it and call me back. So far he has not. You may be right, it is possible he doesn't want to tell me the answer and is being polite. Something you have no familiarity with. Kev, I just posted elsewhere on here that you can save your gloating. This has been anticipated by others and they have already captured all of the years of information. So don't waste you time gloating. I give up Kevin. It is very hard for me to understand evil. I just feel sorry for you and wish you would turn your life around. Nothing I can do about it, so that is my parting advice. Do a little soul searching.
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By Sandia
Member
1 day ago
1440 Posts
Blah blah blah
Sandia you are a terrible liar. You need to learn to tell consistent stories. By the way with this board gone, nobody will ever even find your other one. I don't have to "turn my life around" Sandia. Your the lonely old broad who is obsessed with rape and murder and who devotes her life to interfering in police matters. Your a joke. Don't feel sorry for me. Fix yourself because your simply tragic.
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By KevTheBoer
Member
1 day ago
9191 Posts
Re: Re: Three lines of code..
Posted By: Sandia
Posted By: KevTheBoer
Shows how insignifigant all these efforts were... Oh and by the way Sandia since your dispensing advice - WHEN THE DEPUTY DOESNT CALL YOU BACK IT MEANS HE DOESNT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY. That's called A CLUE. LOL GET ONE!
That detective called me out of the blue to thank me. I recently called him, he did call me back. I asked him a question, he said he would check into it and call me back. So far he has not. You may be right, it is possible he doesn't want to tell me the answer and is being polite. Something you have no familiarity with. Kev, I just posted elsewhere on here that you can save your gloating. This has been anticipated by others and they have already captured all of the years of information. So don't waste you time gloating. I give up Kevin. It is very hard for me to understand evil. I just feel sorry for you and wish you would turn your life around. Nothing I can do about it, so that is my parting advice. Do a little soul searching.
Suuuuuure he did, LMAO.....
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By San_Antonio_Girl
Member
1 day ago
1601 Posts
ROFL SanAntonio
Agent69 forgets that she posts out in the open... So is she lying there, lying here, or just lies so much she doesn't even know when shes lying. Adios La Watermelon! LOL
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By KevTheBoer
Member
1 day ago
9191 Posts
Re: Glasby
Viva La Ear!! I hope he rears his sick head again if only to hunt down the EARmites......
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By San_Antonio_Girl
Member
1 day ago
1601 Posts
LOL Oh Look

LOL LOL ROFL.... FLUSHED OUT TO SEA! LOL
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By KevTheBoer
Member
1 day ago
9191 Posts